So about that Bombard and Snare stacking

RinaldoGandolphi · April 2016

@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno

I noticed the Snare stacking, specifically from Bombard that has turned PVP into the Elder Snares Online wasn't addressed?

With the nerf to Purifying Ritual Bombard has now reach absolutely insane levels of OP.

The normal zerg/raid in Cyrodiil has 3-4 Bombard Spammers, so it goes something like this:

4 Bombard Spammers all hit you with Bombard
You are rooted
You are also 120% Snared(Immobilized)

your now double immobilized. You can't get out of the root because you CAN NOT dodge roll because you are 120-160% snared

the only way out of this was the Templar's Purifying Ritual that removed 5 effects, it was the only thing that would free you. You would have to cast the Alliance War skill twice to free you from this, and by those 2 global cooldowns your already been triple to quaduple Bombarded again.

This needs to be fixed. This is why people say they die but can't move, roll dodge, break free or anything.

this bug has been exploited for months, its time to just remove the Snare off Arrow Barrage and its morphs all together.

A ranged spam able AOE cone root is OP enough on its own, it doens't need a snare stacked on top of it.

Why not give Bombard Minor Breech and Minor Fracture instead, and leave increase the DOT damage on Acid Spray and remove the snare alltogether?

If this is not an option, then you need to double the effects the Alliance War skill Purge will clean off people. Or prevent Snares from stacking from multiple targets.

Something needs to be done, this skill is way out of hand and the changes to Templar Purify will make it impossible to have any chance of escaping or even having a chance to fight against this....its bad enough to be outnumbered 20 vs 5....they don't need a stacking snare with an AOE conal root you can't escape from without the live version of Templar Purify to help them any more....

ManDraKE · April 2016

yes, the bombard spam is utterly stupid. Multiple snares from the same skill should not stack, that will force them to combine diferent skills to stack snares, and they won't be able to get 100% snare so easily.

RoyJade · April 2016

Stacking stare from the same skill shouldn't exist, I agree. I think that's a bug, and ZOS have to fix it.

But I have no idea if stacking snare from different abilities is normal or if it's a bug, does ZOS says something about it ?

staracino_ESO · April 2016

Major snare/Minor Snare... good to add with Major Shield/Minor Shield.

TheBull · April 2016

Hmmm sounds like the zerg is being adversely effected by this. Am I reading between the lines correctly?

Zheg · April 2016

TheBull wrote: »

Hmmm sounds like the zerg is being adversely effected by this. Am I reading between the lines correctly?

You aren't. The zerg is the one abusing it

zyk · April 2016

TheBull wrote: »

Hmmm sounds like the zerg is being adversely effected by this. Am I reading between the lines correctly?

What difference does that make? Obviously snares shouldn't stack, regardless of which play styles it may impact the most.

It's amazing how many issues @ZOS_GinaBruno won't comment on, ever. Such as the FPS drop bug introduced in 2.2.

TheBull · April 2016

Zheg wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Hmmm sounds like the zerg is being adversely effected by this. Am I reading between the lines correctly?

You aren't. The zerg is the one abusing it

Hmm that's odd. Usually when I see guilds (zergs?) complaining about a change, the change has been great for everyone else..

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · April 2016

I'm not for this at all and I solo the snare is not the problem it needs to grant CC immunity my Frost MageBlade uses Frost Reach to force you to kill your stamina you Block my Dark Shades (2 shades not the teleportation one) kill your stamina, you roll I reroot and if you stand and range I ground AoE bomb the area.

The Snare is fair only if you can granted CC immunity. Also if your CC immune you can still be snared. That's what needs to be balanced all others is fair as is. All CC should grant immunity.

It's pretty hard to fight when you can move, block or roll.

ADarklore · April 2016

Once again the PvP crowd wants to nerf the PvE crowd! When will ZOS finally find a way to make skills adjust differently between PvP environment and PvE?!?

Let's also keep in mind that the Bow skills are not exactly the highest damage skill out there, which means Bombard becomes the go-to spam skill to keep enemies off of us in PvE. If they're going to suddenly take the snare away from Bombard, then they need to seriously increase the damage of the skill line since we'd obviously be taking more damage.

Cathexis · April 2016

Permanently disabled controls is not a combat mechanic, it's holding someone down and beating them.

Any combination of mechanics that basically amounts to a player putting down the controls because it is more efficient than doing anything is bad gameplay.

Tholian1 · April 2016

I use the snare in PvE. So my answer is no to the removal. So sick and tired of PvP "balancing" ruining PvE play styles. It has to stop. It really does.

HoloYoitsu · April 2016

@RinaldoGandolphi Good luck, I documented the bombard bug, but there has still been 0 response from ZOS so much as acknowledging it exists. Best practice your clenching so you'll be prepared for bombards combined with unbreakable negate silence.

TheBull wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Hmmm sounds like the zerg is being adversely effected by this. Am I reading between the lines correctly?

You aren't. The zerg is the one abusing it

Hmm that's odd. Usually when I see guilds (zergs?) complaining about a change, the change has been great for everyone else..

That's odd, usually when I read your posts, they are poorly thought out arguments or troll attempts.

Xsorus · April 2016

I'm sorry..there is absolutely zero reason to use Bombard in PvE vs poison spray.....Poison Spray does a STUPID amount more damage then Bombard..

If you want snares there are way better ones to use then gimping your AOE damage with bow.

Tholian1 · April 2016

Xsorus wrote: »

I'm sorry..there is absolutely zero reason to use Bombard in PvE vs poison spray.....Poison Spray does a STUPID amount more damage then Bombard..

If you want snares there are way better ones to use then gimping your AOE damage with bow.

Works great after firing off an arrow barrage. Also nice to use with steel tornado.

ADarklore · April 2016

Tholian1 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

I'm sorry..there is absolutely zero reason to use Bombard in PvE vs poison spray.....Poison Spray does a STUPID amount more damage then Bombard..

If you want snares there are way better ones to use then gimping your AOE damage with bow.

Works great after firing off an arrow barrage. Also nice to use with steel tornado.

Agreed! Firing off Arrow Barrage and then snaring a mob with Bombard until either Bombard kills them or Arrow Barrage does... it's an awesomely fun way to deal with mobs. But of course, I play for 'fun'... not "how fast can I kill things and move on..." type of play-style.

Ajax_22 · April 2016

Stop trying to fix a symptom and attack the problem. The snare on Bombard is perfectly fine, and doesn't need to be removed. What does need to be fixed is stacking snares. Things like snares should never stack; it's horrible game design.

acw37162 · April 2016

Major Snare
Minor Snare

And a lot of code work on the how game deals with cc and roots or immobilizes.

Namely immobilizes and roots should completely prevent any hard CC effect.

PainfulFAFA · April 2016

Bombard

TheBull wrote: »

Hmmm sounds like the zerg is being adversely effected by this. Am I reading between the lines correctly?

Those zergs are also doing it back. And they have 5+ ppl dedicated to spamming it, kinda like steelnado back then.
I can tell when my spambards are rekting a zerg but when 5+ spambards suddenly hit me, not only does it hurt, their snares are stacking + the lag = unplayable.

Tholian1 · April 2016

ADarklore wrote: »

Tholian1 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

I'm sorry..there is absolutely zero reason to use Bombard in PvE vs poison spray.....Poison Spray does a STUPID amount more damage then Bombard..

If you want snares there are way better ones to use then gimping your AOE damage with bow.

Works great after firing off an arrow barrage. Also nice to use with steel tornado.

Agreed! Firing off Arrow Barrage and then snaring a mob with Bombard until either Bombard kills them or Arrow Barrage does... it's an awesomely fun way to deal with mobs. But of course, I play for 'fun'... not "how fast can I kill things and move on..." type of play-style.

Hehe, it really is a fun way to take out mobs. Makes me love playing with a bow sometimes.

RinaldoGandolphi · May 2016

Sigh....I should have expected as much...this is so broken....and we hear not a peep......

Laurentia · May 2016

Chances of this getting adressed are low, chances of ZOS realising that Purifying Ritual shouldn't be nerfed into the ground are even lower.
Prepare to use shuffle or mist

Armitas · May 2016

So that is what is causing all the unbreakable unrollable cc. Please fix this.

ManDraKE · May 2016

ADarklore wrote: »

Once again the PvP crowd wants to nerf the PvE crowd! When will ZOS finally find a way to make skills adjust differently between PvP environment and PvE?!?

Sure, lets keep something broken in PvP that complete inmobilize entire groups that can't move, dodge roll or anything, just so you can kill a group of 4 bears withouth them hitting you (99% of the bosses in pve are inmune to snares)

Get lost kid.

Lexxypwns · May 2016

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

I'm not for this at all and I solo the snare is not the problem it needs to grant CC immunity my Frost MageBlade uses Frost Reach to force you to kill your stamina you Block my Dark Shades (2 shades not the teleportation one) kill your stamina, you roll I reroot and if you stand and range I ground AoE bomb the area.

The Snare is fair only if you can granted CC immunity. Also if your CC immune you can still be snared. That's what needs to be balanced all others is fair as is. All CC should grant immunity.

It's pretty hard to fight when you can move, block or roll.

And this is yet another reason I always slot a purge on my magika builds.

RinaldoGandolphi · May 2016

Lexxypwns wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

I'm not for this at all and I solo the snare is not the problem it needs to grant CC immunity my Frost MageBlade uses Frost Reach to force you to kill your stamina you Block my Dark Shades (2 shades not the teleportation one) kill your stamina, you roll I reroot and if you stand and range I ground AoE bomb the area.

The Snare is fair only if you can granted CC immunity. Also if your CC immune you can still be snared. That's what needs to be balanced all others is fair as is. All CC should grant immunity.

It's pretty hard to fight when you can move, block or roll.

And this is yet another reason I always slot a purge on my magika builds.

True, but with the increase cost of Purge and the fact you need two casts to free yourself from what im talking about, its useless.

take myself and my 3 man crew(yes i run 3 people mostly counting myself) we wiped a few 20 mans the last few days, but my point is this:

Your fighting that 24 man zerg, they have 4 Bombard Spammers, they all hit you with you...you have 4 snares on you plus a root, you can't break out of it unless you Cast Efficent Purge/Cleanse twice, during that time they have already hit you again.

the only escape magic users had Templar's Purifying Ritual from live that removed 5 effects, thats the only thing that would free you.(if you were a Templar)

If your a Stam user, you can use Shuffle or Forward Momentum to get away sometimes.

With the nerf to Purifying Ritual Magic users have no way to escape from this bug.

Furthermore, every time your hit with Bombard it puts a small window where your unable to weapon swap which is very errly similar to the mini-negate gap closers used to have..its so stupidly broken.

This will be the 2nd PTS now I have tried to get this stupid broken cheese fixed....and this will be my last attempt.

this bug is a complete loss of character control and just allows people to beat you to death with nothing you can do to stop it...the only reason you saw so many Templars in PVP was because they were the only class that could reliably stinking move in this meta due to this snare stacking nonsense.

it needs fixed its every bit as bad, infact worse then the mini-stun/negate gap closers had...

Roymachine · May 2016

ManDraKE wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Once again the PvP crowd wants to nerf the PvE crowd! When will ZOS finally find a way to make skills adjust differently between PvP environment and PvE?!?

Sure, lets keep something broken in PvP that complete inmobilize entire groups that can't move, dodge roll or anything, just so you can kill a group of 4 bears withouth them hitting you (99% of the bosses in pve are inmune to snares)

Get lost kid.

Well that's not very nice, and he is right. PvP nerfs should not drastically affect PvE. Removing the snare, as many have said, is not the answer because that doesn't really solve the problem.

NBrookus · May 2016

Tholian1 wrote: »

I use the snare in PvE. So my answer is no to the removal. So sick and tired of PvP "balancing" ruining PvE play styles. It has to stop. It really does.

Removing the snare stacking shouldn't affect PvE.

Let the snare remain, just keep it from stacking on top of each other.

ManDraKE · May 2016

Roymachine wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Once again the PvP crowd wants to nerf the PvE crowd! When will ZOS finally find a way to make skills adjust differently between PvP environment and PvE?!?

Sure, lets keep something broken in PvP that complete inmobilize entire groups that can't move, dodge roll or anything, just so you can kill a group of 4 bears withouth them hitting you (99% of the bosses in pve are inmune to snares)

Get lost kid.

Well that's not very nice, and he is right. PvP nerfs should not drastically affect PvE. Removing the snare, as many have said, is not the answer because that doesn't really solve the problem.

we are not asking for an snare removal, we are asking to prevent the snare to stack to infinity on players. There are plenty of snare sources and they work just fine on pve and pvp, is just bombard that is stacking up to 140% snare preventing players from moving or even dodge rolling.

The pve guy complaining is just talking without knowledge of the problem, as usual. He saw something about bombard, and he rushed into posting "don't touch it because i use that skill".

Anti_Virus · May 2016

maybe it would be better if bombard disoriented on hit and rooted afterwards instead of snaring,

bows would have a nice cone AoE stun in PvE

in PVP one cc break and you should be immune to the disorient for 8 secs as well as the root.

Joy_Division · May 2016

Whoever suggested major/minor snare has the best and most elegant solution to a very frustrating game mechanic.