What Happened to Gaming & Gaming Communities

Ch4mpTW · May 2016

What happened to gaming? Serious question. What actually happened? The gaming community and games of now, just couldn't a handle to the candle to those of the past.

What happened to playing a game for fun, and playing to best your own high score? Then if you went and beat someone else's score, well done. But that was it. What happened to this? When did it get super competitive to the point that people are willing to go to extreme lengths such as companies even incorporating pay-to-win items to help players gain a competitive edge if they could afford it?

Which ties into what happened to games that actually challenged you. No, not challenged you in a means of incorporating one-shots and rubber-banding AI. That's "artificial difficulty". I mean games that really tested your reflexes and understanding of mechanics to get a task done properly. What happened to that? What happened to there being actual consequences for deaths in games, such as if you die? You have to start back from square one. No save points in terms of being able to respawn right back into the fight. You'd have to start from the beginning of the level/stage, and work your way back up to the boss. What happened to if your gear broke, it was a wrap. You'd have to go and craft new gear for yourself. Where did that go?

What happened to games be an escape from the drama and bs of daily society. But, it seems that the drama has creeped into the gaming communities. It's the drama of this guild wanting to do this, because this person is dating so and so. Or this person is demoted or enable to participate in an event because they lack a certain title or certain amount of champion points. Or because so and so isn't wearing a certain set, no they become the joke of a guild, and they eventually get kicked out of it. And NO ONE stands up for these people who get mistreated. And if you do, you get called a "white knight". Really? When did it become cool to troll, and make others feel like trash on the Internet and have witch hunts on gaming forums. Seriously. When did this become acceptable?

What happened to the actual drive to get better at a game, rather than sit there and whine and call something cheap and unfair. And rage and beg and scream for nerfs. This is called the "scrub mentality". You see it constantly in competitive environments in gaming. What happened to actually trying to figure out what you did wrong, and figure out how you were bested by another player? And then proceed with adopting in the fly, and adjusting your strategy. Now a days? Someone kills you because your build is lacks defense and sustain, and is so common that the opposing player has faced off against it numerous times. So they've got experience facing your build and tactics, but rather than come to this logic -- you'd rather make a forum post about it. And rage about it. Really?

What happened to gamers out there willing to help each other. Now you see predatory behavior everywhere. I remember when gaming communities were literally the best communities available online. Now they're probably the worst. Why is this? Why is it you want to "SWAT" someone, because they beat your score in a video game, and put their lives (along with others) in jeopardy. Really? Is it that serious?

Or, what happened to having to drive to hustle and grind? So because some people have exploited for something, you now want to have a witch hunt online and in forums, and say how they should be stripped of all they have, and or have their accounts permanently banned. Even if they were first time offenders or truly performed an exploit by accident. And simply choose to go about continuing to do so, to supply themselves. What happened to actually placing the blame in the company for the exploit being in existence in the first place? I've seen for myself people would rather treat others like trash, and degrade them, than say, "Hey. Hey _____, why didn't you thoroughly test _____ more? I mean, true indeed _____ shouldn't have exploited, but ultimately this is your fault for it having been there to begin with." So what happened to people blaming the true core source of the exploits at hand? What happened to when you found an exploit, you were heralded and you choose to share that knowledge with everyone to have everyone succeed. Why is it now everything is: Me, me, me. "Oh _____ has been able to get ______ as much as possible, while I haven't. So I hate them, I'm going to do any and everything I can to make their online life a living Hell. And while I'm at it, I'm going to rally a witch hunt, and humiliate any and everyone who tries to oppose my logic." Why? Why the selfishness and inconsiderateness?

So yes, I'm ultimately asking what happened. What happened to gaming as we know it. Seriously. What. Happened. I understand as communities grow larger, more bad apples are bound to arrive. But this is ridiculous. And it's like people are afraid to speak up about these things at hand, out of fear of being made fun of. And that itself isn't even cool. So please Elder Scrolls Online community. Please tell me what you think has happened to gaming and has caused it to transfer into what it is now.

Volkodav · May 2016

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

What happened to gaming? Serious question. What actually happened? The gaming community and games of now, just couldn't a handle to the candle to those of the past.

What happened to playing a game for fun, and playing to best your own high score? Then if you went and beat someone else's score, well done. But that was it. What happened to this? When did it get super competitive to the point that people are willing to go to extreme lengths such as companies even incorporating pay-to-win items to help players gain a competitive edge if they could afford it?

Which ties into what happened to games that actually challenged you. No, not challenged you in a means of incorporating one-shots and rubber-banding AI. That's "artificial difficulty". I mean games that really tested your reflexes and understanding of mechanics to get a task done properly. What happened to that? What happened to there being actual consequences for deaths in games, such as if you die? You have to start back from square one. No save points in terms of being able to respawn right back into the fight. You'd have to start from the beginning of the level/stage, and work your way back up to the boss. What happened to if your gear broke, it was a wrap. You'd have to go and craft new gear for yourself. Where did that go?

What happened to games be an escape from the drama and bs of daily society. But, it seems that the drama has creeped into the gaming communities. It's the drama of this guild wanting to do this, because this person is dating so and so. Or this person is demoted or enable to participate in an event because they lack a certain title or certain amount of champion points. Or because so and so isn't wearing a certain set, no they become the joke of a guild, and they eventually get kicked out of it. And NO ONE stands up for these people who get mistreated. And if you do, you get called a "white knight". Really? When did it become cool to troll, and make others feel like trash on the Internet and have witch hunts on gaming forums. Seriously. When did this become acceptable?

What happened to the actual drive to get better at a game, rather than sit there and whine and call something cheap and unfair. And rage and beg and scream for nerfs. This is called the "scrub mentality". You see it constantly in competitive environments in gaming. What happened to actually trying to figure out what you did wrong, and figure out how you were bested by another player? And then proceed with adopting in the fly, and adjusting your strategy. Now a days? Someone kills you because your build is lacks defense and sustain, and is so common that the opposing player has faced off against it numerous times. So they've got experience facing your build and tactics, but rather than come to this logic -- you'd rather make a forum post about it. And rage about it. Really?

What happened to gamers out there willing to help each other. Now you see predatory behavior everywhere. I remember when gaming communities were literally the best communities available online. Now they're probably the worst. Why is this? Why is it you want to "SWAT" someone, because they beat your score in a video game, and put their lives (along with others) in jeopardy. Really? Is it that serious?

Or, what happened to having to drive to hustle and grind? So because some people have exploited for something, you now want to have a witch hunt online and in forums, and say how they should be stripped of all they have, and or have their accounts permanently banned. Even if they were first time offenders or truly performed an exploit by accident. And simply choose to go about continuing to do so, to supply themselves. What happened to actually placing the blame in the company for the exploit being in existence in the first place? I've seen for myself people would rather treat others like trash, and degrade them, than say, "Hey. Hey _____, why didn't you thoroughly test _____ more? I mean, true indeed _____ shouldn't have exploited, but ultimately this is your fault for it having been there to begin with." So what happened to people blaming the true core source of the exploits at hand? What happened to when you found an exploit, you were heralded and you choose to share that knowledge with everyone to have everyone succeed. Why is it now everything is: Me, me, me. "Oh _____ has been able to get ______ as much as possible, while I haven't. So I hate them, I'm going to do any and everything I can to make their online life a living Hell. And while I'm at it, I'm going to rally a witch hunt, and humiliate any and everyone who tries to oppose my logic." Why? Why the selfishness and inconsiderateness?

So yes, I'm ultimately asking what happened. What happened to gaming as we know it. Seriously. What. Happened. I understand as communities grow larger, more bad apples are bound to arrive. But this is ridiculous. And it's like people are afraid to speak up about these things at hand, out of fear of being made fun of. And that itself isn't even cool. So please Elder Scrolls Online community. Please tell me what you think has happened to gaming and has caused it to transfer into what it is now.

Forums are what happened.Egos and forums.

Lysette · May 2016

IMO the lack of hardship of any kind in the life of the younger generation. They grew up in relative wealthy families and get all handed to them for free and in abundance and that makes them feel entitled and spoiled. It is not just a matter of the gaming communities, it is a matter of modern society in a whole. This happened.

HuawaSepp · May 2016

I understand him, but what he want is just impossible to achive...
Or my imagination is to weak, whatever.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · May 2016

Volkodav wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

What happened to gaming? Serious question. What actually happened? The gaming community and games of now, just couldn't a handle to the candle to those of the past.

What happened to playing a game for fun, and playing to best your own high score? Then if you went and beat someone else's score, well done. But that was it. What happened to this? When did it get super competitive to the point that people are willing to go to extreme lengths such as companies even incorporating pay-to-win items to help players gain a competitive edge if they could afford it?

Which ties into what happened to games that actually challenged you. No, not challenged you in a means of incorporating one-shots and rubber-banding AI. That's "artificial difficulty". I mean games that really tested your reflexes and understanding of mechanics to get a task done properly. What happened to that? What happened to there being actual consequences for deaths in games, such as if you die? You have to start back from square one. No save points in terms of being able to respawn right back into the fight. You'd have to start from the beginning of the level/stage, and work your way back up to the boss. What happened to if your gear broke, it was a wrap. You'd have to go and craft new gear for yourself. Where did that go?

What happened to games be an escape from the drama and bs of daily society. But, it seems that the drama has creeped into the gaming communities. It's the drama of this guild wanting to do this, because this person is dating so and so. Or this person is demoted or enable to participate in an event because they lack a certain title or certain amount of champion points. Or because so and so isn't wearing a certain set, no they become the joke of a guild, and they eventually get kicked out of it. And NO ONE stands up for these people who get mistreated. And if you do, you get called a "white knight". Really? When did it become cool to troll, and make others feel like trash on the Internet and have witch hunts on gaming forums. Seriously. When did this become acceptable?

What happened to the actual drive to get better at a game, rather than sit there and whine and call something cheap and unfair. And rage and beg and scream for nerfs. This is called the "scrub mentality". You see it constantly in competitive environments in gaming. What happened to actually trying to figure out what you did wrong, and figure out how you were bested by another player? And then proceed with adopting in the fly, and adjusting your strategy. Now a days? Someone kills you because your build is lacks defense and sustain, and is so common that the opposing player has faced off against it numerous times. So they've got experience facing your build and tactics, but rather than come to this logic -- you'd rather make a forum post about it. And rage about it. Really?

What happened to gamers out there willing to help each other. Now you see predatory behavior everywhere. I remember when gaming communities were literally the best communities available online. Now they're probably the worst. Why is this? Why is it you want to "SWAT" someone, because they beat your score in a video game, and put their lives (along with others) in jeopardy. Really? Is it that serious?

Or, what happened to having to drive to hustle and grind? So because some people have exploited for something, you now want to have a witch hunt online and in forums, and say how they should be stripped of all they have, and or have their accounts permanently banned. Even if they were first time offenders or truly performed an exploit by accident. And simply choose to go about continuing to do so, to supply themselves. What happened to actually placing the blame in the company for the exploit being in existence in the first place? I've seen for myself people would rather treat others like trash, and degrade them, than say, "Hey. Hey _____, why didn't you thoroughly test _____ more? I mean, true indeed _____ shouldn't have exploited, but ultimately this is your fault for it having been there to begin with." So what happened to people blaming the true core source of the exploits at hand? What happened to when you found an exploit, you were heralded and you choose to share that knowledge with everyone to have everyone succeed. Why is it now everything is: Me, me, me. "Oh _____ has been able to get ______ as much as possible, while I haven't. So I hate them, I'm going to do any and everything I can to make their online life a living Hell. And while I'm at it, I'm going to rally a witch hunt, and humiliate any and everyone who tries to oppose my logic." Why? Why the selfishness and inconsiderateness?

So yes, I'm ultimately asking what happened. What happened to gaming as we know it. Seriously. What. Happened. I understand as communities grow larger, more bad apples are bound to arrive. But this is ridiculous. And it's like people are afraid to speak up about these things at hand, out of fear of being made fun of. And that itself isn't even cool. So please Elder Scrolls Online community. Please tell me what you think has happened to gaming and has caused it to transfer into what it is now.

Forums are what happened.Egos and forums.

This and money. Games became big business. In the past games were a smaller market so niche games were ok. Games had a specific target. So communities were made of players who had more in common in the way they played or the things they wanted.

You know what the market is on these big budget games? Everyone. So you end up with a much larger spectrum of people playing. What they want, how they play, what they think is important, all different.

Also i dont think it has anything to do with people being afraid to speak out. People who write walls of text arent being brave or have super powers. Most people understand that most the complainers or whiners are just trolls or people who just had something happen to them, so they are just venting. So usually they are just ignored.

Id also point out the issue isnt always black and white as some claim. Just because people disagree doesnt mesn the community is collapsing or the game is ending. People disagree all the time. It aint no big thing. One side doesnt have to be right and one side wrong.

Reverb · May 2016

Your perspective is skewed by nostalgia. Those behaviors you claim are new have always existed, kids brawling with each other and breaking controllers because they got worked up over early console games, exploiting for infinite lives in Super Mario, client side code changes to toggle god mode in almost all pc games and many console, and on and on.

And the gaming community has always had a combination of personalities and behaviors, just like everywhere else in the world. Some people are helpful, kind, and altruistic. Some people seek challenging activities and adrenaline rushes, some people want to coast on the efforts of others, and some people are abject wretches. Just like in every workplace, every school, every sport team, everywhere.

Wear these, and move on to telling kids to get off your lawn.

Ch4mpTW · May 2016

Reverb wrote: »

Your perspective is skewed by nostalgia. Those behaviors you claim are new have always existed, kids brawling with each other and breaking controllers because they got worked up over early console games, exploiting for infinite lives in Super Mario, client side code changes to toggle god mode in almost all pc games and many console, and on and on.

And the gaming community has always had a combination of personalities and behaviors, just like everywhere else in the world. Some people are helpful, kind, and altruistic. Some people seek challenging activities and adrenaline rushes, some people want to coast on the efforts of others, and some people are abject wretches. Just like in every workplace, every school, every sport team, everywhere.

Wear these, and move on to telling kids to get off your lawn.

Bro, gaming used to never be this bad. Never. I'm aware that I'm a bit retro in my perspective of things gaming-oriented, but this is literally bad. Toxicity in gaming communities are at an all time high, and are growing second by second. And now we have people thinking its funny and cute to make personal attacks over the Internet? Really? N'ah, bro. I'm not buying it. It's like the mentality happening in schools. It's cool to be dumb now. I have a little cousin who is hated on, because he outperforms his other classmates in every way. Meanwhile the other kids laugh at poke fun at his superior intelligence. Granted that's a different topic all together, but still. Why are all of these negative things seeping into gaming? When did us gamers make a lot of what's going on right now acceptable?

Volkodav · May 2016

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

What happened to gaming? Serious question. What actually happened? The gaming community and games of now, just couldn't a handle to the candle to those of the past.

What happened to playing a game for fun, and playing to best your own high score? Then if you went and beat someone else's score, well done. But that was it. What happened to this? When did it get super competitive to the point that people are willing to go to extreme lengths such as companies even incorporating pay-to-win items to help players gain a competitive edge if they could afford it?

Which ties into what happened to games that actually challenged you. No, not challenged you in a means of incorporating one-shots and rubber-banding AI. That's "artificial difficulty". I mean games that really tested your reflexes and understanding of mechanics to get a task done properly. What happened to that? What happened to there being actual consequences for deaths in games, such as if you die? You have to start back from square one. No save points in terms of being able to respawn right back into the fight. You'd have to start from the beginning of the level/stage, and work your way back up to the boss. What happened to if your gear broke, it was a wrap. You'd have to go and craft new gear for yourself. Where did that go?

What happened to games be an escape from the drama and bs of daily society. But, it seems that the drama has creeped into the gaming communities. It's the drama of this guild wanting to do this, because this person is dating so and so. Or this person is demoted or enable to participate in an event because they lack a certain title or certain amount of champion points. Or because so and so isn't wearing a certain set, no they become the joke of a guild, and they eventually get kicked out of it. And NO ONE stands up for these people who get mistreated. And if you do, you get called a "white knight". Really? When did it become cool to troll, and make others feel like trash on the Internet and have witch hunts on gaming forums. Seriously. When did this become acceptable?

What happened to the actual drive to get better at a game, rather than sit there and whine and call something cheap and unfair. And rage and beg and scream for nerfs. This is called the "scrub mentality". You see it constantly in competitive environments in gaming. What happened to actually trying to figure out what you did wrong, and figure out how you were bested by another player? And then proceed with adopting in the fly, and adjusting your strategy. Now a days? Someone kills you because your build is lacks defense and sustain, and is so common that the opposing player has faced off against it numerous times. So they've got experience facing your build and tactics, but rather than come to this logic -- you'd rather make a forum post about it. And rage about it. Really?

What happened to gamers out there willing to help each other. Now you see predatory behavior everywhere. I remember when gaming communities were literally the best communities available online. Now they're probably the worst. Why is this? Why is it you want to "SWAT" someone, because they beat your score in a video game, and put their lives (along with others) in jeopardy. Really? Is it that serious?

Or, what happened to having to drive to hustle and grind? So because some people have exploited for something, you now want to have a witch hunt online and in forums, and say how they should be stripped of all they have, and or have their accounts permanently banned. Even if they were first time offenders or truly performed an exploit by accident. And simply choose to go about continuing to do so, to supply themselves. What happened to actually placing the blame in the company for the exploit being in existence in the first place? I've seen for myself people would rather treat others like trash, and degrade them, than say, "Hey. Hey _____, why didn't you thoroughly test _____ more? I mean, true indeed _____ shouldn't have exploited, but ultimately this is your fault for it having been there to begin with." So what happened to people blaming the true core source of the exploits at hand? What happened to when you found an exploit, you were heralded and you choose to share that knowledge with everyone to have everyone succeed. Why is it now everything is: Me, me, me. "Oh _____ has been able to get ______ as much as possible, while I haven't. So I hate them, I'm going to do any and everything I can to make their online life a living Hell. And while I'm at it, I'm going to rally a witch hunt, and humiliate any and everyone who tries to oppose my logic." Why? Why the selfishness and inconsiderateness?

So yes, I'm ultimately asking what happened. What happened to gaming as we know it. Seriously. What. Happened. I understand as communities grow larger, more bad apples are bound to arrive. But this is ridiculous. And it's like people are afraid to speak up about these things at hand, out of fear of being made fun of. And that itself isn't even cool. So please Elder Scrolls Online community. Please tell me what you think has happened to gaming and has caused it to transfer into what it is now.

Forums are what happened.Egos and forums.

This and money. Games became big business. In the past games were a smaller market so niche games were ok. Games had a specific target. So communities were made of players who had more in common in the way they played or the things they wanted.

You know what the market is on these big budget games? Everyone. So you end up with a much larger spectrum of people playing. What they want, how they play, what they think is important, all different.

Also i dont think it has anything to do with people being afraid to speak out. People who write walls of text arent being brave or have super powers. Most people understand that most the complainers or whiners are just trolls or people who just had something happen to them, so they are just venting. So usually they are just ignored.

Id also point out the issue isnt always black and white as some claim. Just because people disagree doesnt mean the community is collapsing or the game is ending. People disagree all the time. It aint no big thing. One side doesnt have to be right and one side wrong.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. Too many people believe that they need to bend another person to their own ideas,and flip out on them if they dont concede,rather than accepting the two of them disagree and that it's fine.
Sometimes to call truce isnt a cowardly thing to do,but one of grace.Allowing the argument to go fallow.

rootimus · May 2016

I think in addition to what @Lysette said, there's also the fact that games are no longer made by gamers, but rather by multi-billion dollar corporations looking to make more money as quickly as possible. Exhibit A would obviously be EA's line of sport-related games, where they just change the year on the cover and move a few characters around, but there are others.

Firaxis took some of the best parts of Civilisation 4 and sold them as expansions for Civilisation 5. Meanwhile, there are still bugs that are increasingly unlikely to be fixed.

Do any of the Zenimax board of directors seem like gamers to you? I'd wager that they're in it entirely for how much money they can get out of it.

Robert A. Altman (Chairman & CEO)
Ernest Del (President)
Jerry Bruckheimer (Jerry Bruckheimer Films)
Michael Dominguez (Managing Director, Providence Equity Partners Inc.)
Leslie Moonves (President & CEO, CBS Corporation)
Cal Ripken, Jr (President & CEO, Ripken Baseball, Inc.)
Harry E. Sloan (Chairman, Silver Eagle Acquisition Corp; former Chairman and CEO of Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer).
Robert S. Trump (President, Trump Management, Inc.; brother of Donald Trump)

Of course, there are exceptions. CCP was founded by players who were unhappy with the direction UO was taking, so they made their own game. Until recently, Eve has been a pretty badass game where you needed to work for what you wanted. I'm not even sure that someone could do this in a post-Warcraft, pay to win gaming world, where far too many players feel entitled to push an I win button.

There's a lot of indie games around these days that seem to be focused on being a game, not a mint, but a lot of them seem to me to appeal to a niche audience that I'm not part of.

It seems to me that, barring an incredible stroke of luck for a new-comer, we're probably doomed to less and less from the games manufacturers, which is what they are at this point, churning stuff out on a production line.

Fortunately, I know where I can still play Space Invaders and Asteroids.

Ch4mpTW · May 2016

rootimus wrote: »

I think in addition to what @Lysette said, there's also the fact that games are no longer made by gamers, but rather by multi-billion dollar corporations looking to make more money as quickly as possible. Exhibit A would obviously be EA's line of sport-related games, where they just change the year on the cover and move a few characters around, but there are others.

Firaxis took some of the best parts of Civilisation 4 and sold them as expansions for Civilisation 5. Meanwhile, there are still bugs that are increasingly unlikely to be fixed.

Do any of the Zenimax board of directors seem like gamers to you? I'd wager that they're in it entirely for how much money they can get out of it.
Robert A. Altman (Chairman & CEO)

Ernest Del (President)

Jerry Bruckheimer (Jerry Bruckheimer Films)

Michael Dominguez (Managing Director, Providence Equity Partners Inc.)

Leslie Moonves (President & CEO, CBS Corporation)

Cal Ripken, Jr (President & CEO, Ripken Baseball, Inc.)

Harry E. Sloan (Chairman, Silver Eagle Acquisition Corp; former Chairman and CEO of Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer).

Robert S. Trump (President, Trump Management, Inc.; brother of Donald Trump)

Of course, there are exceptions. CCP was founded by players who were unhappy with the direction UO was taking, so they made their own game. Until recently, Eve has been a pretty badass game where you needed to work for what you wanted. I'm not even sure that someone could do this in a post-Warcraft, pay to win gaming world, where far too many players feel entitled to push an I win button.

There's a lot of indie games around these days that seem to be focused on being a game, not a mint, but a lot of them seem to me to appeal to a niche audience that I'm not part of.

It seems to me that, barring an incredible stroke of luck for a new-comer, we're probably doomed to less and less from the games manufacturers, which is what they are at this point, churning stuff out on a production line.

Fortunately, I know where I can still play Space Invaders and Asteroids.

Very solid and valid points. Also very insightful. See, it's posts like these that I miss seeing. Highly-detailed and focused on the topic at hand. No trolling. No baiting. No bs. Just constructive and solid conversation. I wonder where that went too in the gaming communities.

sadownik · May 2016

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

Your perspective is skewed by nostalgia. Those behaviors you claim are new have always existed, kids brawling with each other and breaking controllers because they got worked up over early console games, exploiting for infinite lives in Super Mario, client side code changes to toggle god mode in almost all pc games and many console, and on and on.

And the gaming community has always had a combination of personalities and behaviors, just like everywhere else in the world. Some people are helpful, kind, and altruistic. Some people seek challenging activities and adrenaline rushes, some people want to coast on the efforts of others, and some people are abject wretches. Just like in every workplace, every school, every sport team, everywhere.

Wear these, and move on to telling kids to get off your lawn.

Bro, gaming used to never be this bad. Never. I'm aware that I'm a bit retro in my perspective of things gaming-oriented, but this is literally bad. Toxicity in gaming communities are at an all time high, and are growing second by second. And now we have people thinking its funny and cute to make personal attacks over the Internet? Really? N'ah, bro. I'm not buying it. It's like the mentality happening in schools. It's cool to be dumb now. I have a little cousin who is hated on, because he outperforms his other classmates in every way. Meanwhile the other kids laugh at poke fun at his superior intelligence. Granted that's a different topic all together, but still. Why are all of these negative things seeping into gaming? When did us gamers make a lot of what's going on right now acceptable?

Yeah, no. You are truly pumped with nostalgia up till your nose. I play games for over 34 years now, 12 years online games and let me tell you - nihil novi sub sole.

Ch4mpTW · May 2016

sadownik wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

Your perspective is skewed by nostalgia. Those behaviors you claim are new have always existed, kids brawling with each other and breaking controllers because they got worked up over early console games, exploiting for infinite lives in Super Mario, client side code changes to toggle god mode in almost all pc games and many console, and on and on.

And the gaming community has always had a combination of personalities and behaviors, just like everywhere else in the world. Some people are helpful, kind, and altruistic. Some people seek challenging activities and adrenaline rushes, some people want to coast on the efforts of others, and some people are abject wretches. Just like in every workplace, every school, every sport team, everywhere.

Wear these, and move on to telling kids to get off your lawn.

Bro, gaming used to never be this bad. Never. I'm aware that I'm a bit retro in my perspective of things gaming-oriented, but this is literally bad. Toxicity in gaming communities are at an all time high, and are growing second by second. And now we have people thinking its funny and cute to make personal attacks over the Internet? Really? N'ah, bro. I'm not buying it. It's like the mentality happening in schools. It's cool to be dumb now. I have a little cousin who is hated on, because he outperforms his other classmates in every way. Meanwhile the other kids laugh at poke fun at his superior intelligence. Granted that's a different topic all together, but still. Why are all of these negative things seeping into gaming? When did us gamers make a lot of what's going on right now acceptable?

Yeah, no. You are truly pumped with nostalgia up till your nose. I play games for over 34 years now, 12 years online games and let me tell you - nihil novi sub sole.

Ah... An older gamer as well. Much respects to you for continuing to game for so long. Ex uno disce omnes.

ZOS_AlanG · May 2016

Several posts have been removed. Please keep any criticism and debate both civil and constructive. Additionally, accusations that someone is acting inappropriately are generally baiting and trollish, if you feel that someone is problematic please report their posts rather than responding in-thread to call them out. The latter generally escalates matters, rather than resolving them.

Ch4mpTW · May 2016

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

Several posts have been removed. Please keep any criticism and debate both civil and constructive. Additionally, accusations that someone is acting inappropriately are generally baiting and trollish, if you feel that someone is problematic please report their posts rather than responding in-thread to call them out. The latter generally escalates matters, rather than resolving them.

Thank you for reopening the thread. I appreciate it. You Zenimax green men aren't so bad after all. And maybe you all really do just wanna keep the nonsense to a minimum, and have a clean forum. Hmmm... Anyway, that's a topic all in its own.

Alurria · May 2016

The gaming community has changed so much. My first MMO could only hold about 250 people max. You knew almost everyone. Turn based PvP, taunts and most of the time good natured competition. Back even then there were those few who pushed the barrier on good manners your Mother taught you. People quickly learned they could hide behind a computer screen safe in their dark rooms and spew out disrespect.

The problem is it has bled all across the Internet, now in gaming you pay for a name change, or go create a new character. Or start a new troll thread under an assumed account. It's sad really, people had online respectable character reputations. People who were role players were not shunned as pervs or odd and role playing wasn't about online sex. It was about story telling and acting. Now in a game I love that there are other people around, but just as in life I don't want to befriend a stranger because it can backfire on you and you end up with a cyber stalker. One thing I have learned if you are female you are more of a target.

There is no going back, forming small sub communities is the only way to go. I lack trust now in my fellow gamers. Very sad...

Ch4mpTW · May 2016

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

The gaming community has changed so much. My first MMO could only hold about 250 people max. You knew almost everyone. Turn based PvP, taunts and most of the time good natured competition. Back even then there were those few who pushed the barrier on good manners your Mother taught you. People quickly learned they could hide behind a computer screen safe in their dark rooms and spew out disrespect.

The problem is it has bled all across the Internet, now in gaming you pay for a name change, or go create a new character. Or start a new troll thread under an assumed account. It's sad really, people had online respectable character reputations. People who were role players were not shunned as pervs or odd and role playing wasn't about online sex. It was about story telling and acting. Now in a game I love that there are other people around, but just as in life I don't want to befriend a stranger because it can backfire on you and you end up with a cyber stalker. One thing I have learned if you are female you are more of a target.

There is no going back, forming small sub communities is the only way to go. I lack trust now in my fellow gamers. Very sad...

Damn... So many memories and so much truth in your post... I remember those days of "character reputation" actually holding weight. I remember when roleplaying was acceptable in gaming, and not viewed upon as odd. And in fact, it was the majority of gamers in games who'd do so! Now it's frowned upon and considered taboo.

Things really have gone downhill, and you're right. It is sad. It's very sad. It's heartbreaking really, because you have people who's lives have literally been molded by gaming on a personal and real-life level. I've heard of people actually meeting up in-real life from gaming, and actually getting married. Yes, I kid you not. People actually marrying others, and having lasting relationships with people that they've met from gaming. Yes, this happened a lot more than people would imagine. And now the gaming community is so toxic, you can't even really trust someone enough to give them your Skype. Because like you said, there's a fear that they maybe a stalker or worse. It's really disheartening what's been going on, and I really wonder where we as gamers went wrong... I really do. . .

treborrealb14_ESO · May 2016

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

What happened to gaming? Serious question. What actually happened? The gaming community and games of now, just couldn't a handle to the candle to those of the past.

What happened to playing a game for fun, and playing to best your own high score? Then if you went and beat someone else's score, well done. But that was it. What happened to this? When did it get super competitive to the point that people are willing to go to extreme lengths such as companies even incorporating pay-to-win items to help players gain a competitive edge if they could afford it?

Which ties into what happened to games that actually challenged you. No, not challenged you in a means of incorporating one-shots and rubber-banding AI. That's "artificial difficulty". I mean games that really tested your reflexes and understanding of mechanics to get a task done properly. What happened to that? What happened to there being actual consequences for deaths in games, such as if you die? You have to start back from square one. No save points in terms of being able to respawn right back into the fight. You'd have to start from the beginning of the level/stage, and work your way back up to the boss. What happened to if your gear broke, it was a wrap. You'd have to go and craft new gear for yourself. Where did that go?

What happened to games be an escape from the drama and bs of daily society. But, it seems that the drama has creeped into the gaming communities. It's the drama of this guild wanting to do this, because this person is dating so and so. Or this person is demoted or enable to participate in an event because they lack a certain title or certain amount of champion points. Or because so and so isn't wearing a certain set, no they become the joke of a guild, and they eventually get kicked out of it. And NO ONE stands up for these people who get mistreated. And if you do, you get called a "white knight". Really? When did it become cool to troll, and make others feel like trash on the Internet and have witch hunts on gaming forums. Seriously. When did this become acceptable?

What happened to the actual drive to get better at a game, rather than sit there and whine and call something cheap and unfair. And rage and beg and scream for nerfs. This is called the "scrub mentality". You see it constantly in competitive environments in gaming. What happened to actually trying to figure out what you did wrong, and figure out how you were bested by another player? And then proceed with adopting in the fly, and adjusting your strategy. Now a days? Someone kills you because your build is lacks defense and sustain, and is so common that the opposing player has faced off against it numerous times. So they've got experience facing your build and tactics, but rather than come to this logic -- you'd rather make a forum post about it. And rage about it. Really?

What happened to gamers out there willing to help each other. Now you see predatory behavior everywhere. I remember when gaming communities were literally the best communities available online. Now they're probably the worst. Why is this? Why is it you want to "SWAT" someone, because they beat your score in a video game, and put their lives (along with others) in jeopardy. Really? Is it that serious?

Or, what happened to having to drive to hustle and grind? So because some people have exploited for something, you now want to have a witch hunt online and in forums, and say how they should be stripped of all they have, and or have their accounts permanently banned. Even if they were first time offenders or truly performed an exploit by accident. And simply choose to go about continuing to do so, to supply themselves. What happened to actually placing the blame in the company for the exploit being in existence in the first place? I've seen for myself people would rather treat others like trash, and degrade them, than say, "Hey. Hey _____, why didn't you thoroughly test _____ more? I mean, true indeed _____ shouldn't have exploited, but ultimately this is your fault for it having been there to begin with." So what happened to people blaming the true core source of the exploits at hand? What happened to when you found an exploit, you were heralded and you choose to share that knowledge with everyone to have everyone succeed. Why is it now everything is: Me, me, me. "Oh _____ has been able to get ______ as much as possible, while I haven't. So I hate them, I'm going to do any and everything I can to make their online life a living Hell. And while I'm at it, I'm going to rally a witch hunt, and humiliate any and everyone who tries to oppose my logic." Why? Why the selfishness and inconsiderateness?

So yes, I'm ultimately asking what happened. What happened to gaming as we know it. Seriously. What. Happened. I understand as communities grow larger, more bad apples are bound to arrive. But this is ridiculous. And it's like people are afraid to speak up about these things at hand, out of fear of being made fun of. And that itself isn't even cool. So please Elder Scrolls Online community. Please tell me what you think has happened to gaming and has caused it to transfer into what it is now.

The Grew Older, tackled a job,took on a significant other, Learned what bill paying priorities where, maybe even took on a new mouth or two to feed and Now yes now there know as a casual

Alurria · May 2016

treborrealb14_ESO wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

What happened to gaming? Serious question. What actually happened? The gaming community and games of now, just couldn't a handle to the candle to those of the past.

What happened to playing a game for fun, and playing to best your own high score? Then if you went and beat someone else's score, well done. But that was it. What happened to this? When did it get super competitive to the point that people are willing to go to extreme lengths such as companies even incorporating pay-to-win items to help players gain a competitive edge if they could afford it?

Which ties into what happened to games that actually challenged you. No, not challenged you in a means of incorporating one-shots and rubber-banding AI. That's "artificial difficulty". I mean games that really tested your reflexes and understanding of mechanics to get a task done properly. What happened to that? What happened to there being actual consequences for deaths in games, such as if you die? You have to start back from square one. No save points in terms of being able to respawn right back into the fight. You'd have to start from the beginning of the level/stage, and work your way back up to the boss. What happened to if your gear broke, it was a wrap. You'd have to go and craft new gear for yourself. Where did that go?

What happened to games be an escape from the drama and bs of daily society. But, it seems that the drama has creeped into the gaming communities. It's the drama of this guild wanting to do this, because this person is dating so and so. Or this person is demoted or enable to participate in an event because they lack a certain title or certain amount of champion points. Or because so and so isn't wearing a certain set, no they become the joke of a guild, and they eventually get kicked out of it. And NO ONE stands up for these people who get mistreated. And if you do, you get called a "white knight". Really? When did it become cool to troll, and make others feel like trash on the Internet and have witch hunts on gaming forums. Seriously. When did this become acceptable?

What happened to the actual drive to get better at a game, rather than sit there and whine and call something cheap and unfair. And rage and beg and scream for nerfs. This is called the "scrub mentality". You see it constantly in competitive environments in gaming. What happened to actually trying to figure out what you did wrong, and figure out how you were bested by another player? And then proceed with adopting in the fly, and adjusting your strategy. Now a days? Someone kills you because your build is lacks defense and sustain, and is so common that the opposing player has faced off against it numerous times. So they've got experience facing your build and tactics, but rather than come to this logic -- you'd rather make a forum post about it. And rage about it. Really?

What happened to gamers out there willing to help each other. Now you see predatory behavior everywhere. I remember when gaming communities were literally the best communities available online. Now they're probably the worst. Why is this? Why is it you want to "SWAT" someone, because they beat your score in a video game, and put their lives (along with others) in jeopardy. Really? Is it that serious?

Or, what happened to having to drive to hustle and grind? So because some people have exploited for something, you now want to have a witch hunt online and in forums, and say how they should be stripped of all they have, and or have their accounts permanently banned. Even if they were first time offenders or truly performed an exploit by accident. And simply choose to go about continuing to do so, to supply themselves. What happened to actually placing the blame in the company for the exploit being in existence in the first place? I've seen for myself people would rather treat others like trash, and degrade them, than say, "Hey. Hey _____, why didn't you thoroughly test _____ more? I mean, true indeed _____ shouldn't have exploited, but ultimately this is your fault for it having been there to begin with." So what happened to people blaming the true core source of the exploits at hand? What happened to when you found an exploit, you were heralded and you choose to share that knowledge with everyone to have everyone succeed. Why is it now everything is: Me, me, me. "Oh _____ has been able to get ______ as much as possible, while I haven't. So I hate them, I'm going to do any and everything I can to make their online life a living Hell. And while I'm at it, I'm going to rally a witch hunt, and humiliate any and everyone who tries to oppose my logic." Why? Why the selfishness and inconsiderateness?

So yes, I'm ultimately asking what happened. What happened to gaming as we know it. Seriously. What. Happened. I understand as communities grow larger, more bad apples are bound to arrive. But this is ridiculous. And it's like people are afraid to speak up about these things at hand, out of fear of being made fun of. And that itself isn't even cool. So please Elder Scrolls Online community. Please tell me what you think has happened to gaming and has caused it to transfer into what it is now.

The Grew Older, tackled a job,took on a significant other, Learned what bill paying priorities where, maybe even took on a new mouth or two to feed and Now yes now there know as a casual

I have to say this is true....but I really think arcade gaming is a factor in this. I noticed after arcade gaming hit big then diminished most arcade gamers turned to gaming systems or PCs the games changed. There was a influx of the overly competitive personality in the MMO community. I think people got confused with nature of what a MMO is and what a arcade game is. Thus creating a more demanding winner scenario, i.e. Cry babies.

rotaugen454 · May 2016

Gaming was not this bad when Pong came out. I remember the day I first saw it, on display in a Sears store in Tyler Mall. There was a line of kids waiting to try it, and we waited patiently. The winner didn't gloat, we'd finish a game and both players went to the back of the line. The only prize for the winner was they could be ahead of the person they beat, but everyone was talking in line about how great it was. It all went downhill from there...

Necrelios · May 2016

Failed parenting. That's what happened.

Katahdin · May 2016

Some of this is reflected in societal changes we have seen in recent years.

The me, me, me mentality.
The everybody wins, everyone is a special snowflake, no one left behind scenario.

Contrasted with the ultra competative atmosphere taking over even school sports.
We have parents fighting and threatening people at sporting events if their kid isn't allowed to play or a coach makes a controversial call. We even have parents pushing and fighting over the hot toy at Christmas.

Also the lack of common courtesy ans empathy prevalent in today's society.

Also in society we have been working longer hours, working harder than ever before and we have less time for enjoyment. For myself, I grind enough at my job 8 hours a day doing tedium over and over. I don't want to grind for days and weeks doing the same thing over and over in a game. I don't mind working hard and bring challenged, but I can't tolerate repetitive grind any more.

Also real life is hard enough. Like I said, I don't mind being challenged, having to figure out a mechanic and working as a team to get something accomplished.

I don't like rediculously hard to near impossible where it is just overly punishing for no reason.

As for the recent exploit. I don't feel that anyone that did one survey and had the glitch happen should be banned. However, anyone that continued to take advantage of the situation should have at least a temp ban and all those mats removed from their account.

Ch4mpTW · May 2016

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

treborrealb14_ESO wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

What happened to gaming? Serious question. What actually happened? The gaming community and games of now, just couldn't a handle to the candle to those of the past.

What happened to playing a game for fun, and playing to best your own high score? Then if you went and beat someone else's score, well done. But that was it. What happened to this? When did it get super competitive to the point that people are willing to go to extreme lengths such as companies even incorporating pay-to-win items to help players gain a competitive edge if they could afford it?

Which ties into what happened to games that actually challenged you. No, not challenged you in a means of incorporating one-shots and rubber-banding AI. That's "artificial difficulty". I mean games that really tested your reflexes and understanding of mechanics to get a task done properly. What happened to that? What happened to there being actual consequences for deaths in games, such as if you die? You have to start back from square one. No save points in terms of being able to respawn right back into the fight. You'd have to start from the beginning of the level/stage, and work your way back up to the boss. What happened to if your gear broke, it was a wrap. You'd have to go and craft new gear for yourself. Where did that go?

What happened to games be an escape from the drama and bs of daily society. But, it seems that the drama has creeped into the gaming communities. It's the drama of this guild wanting to do this, because this person is dating so and so. Or this person is demoted or enable to participate in an event because they lack a certain title or certain amount of champion points. Or because so and so isn't wearing a certain set, no they become the joke of a guild, and they eventually get kicked out of it. And NO ONE stands up for these people who get mistreated. And if you do, you get called a "white knight". Really? When did it become cool to troll, and make others feel like trash on the Internet and have witch hunts on gaming forums. Seriously. When did this become acceptable?

What happened to the actual drive to get better at a game, rather than sit there and whine and call something cheap and unfair. And rage and beg and scream for nerfs. This is called the "scrub mentality". You see it constantly in competitive environments in gaming. What happened to actually trying to figure out what you did wrong, and figure out how you were bested by another player? And then proceed with adopting in the fly, and adjusting your strategy. Now a days? Someone kills you because your build is lacks defense and sustain, and is so common that the opposing player has faced off against it numerous times. So they've got experience facing your build and tactics, but rather than come to this logic -- you'd rather make a forum post about it. And rage about it. Really?

What happened to gamers out there willing to help each other. Now you see predatory behavior everywhere. I remember when gaming communities were literally the best communities available online. Now they're probably the worst. Why is this? Why is it you want to "SWAT" someone, because they beat your score in a video game, and put their lives (along with others) in jeopardy. Really? Is it that serious?

Or, what happened to having to drive to hustle and grind? So because some people have exploited for something, you now want to have a witch hunt online and in forums, and say how they should be stripped of all they have, and or have their accounts permanently banned. Even if they were first time offenders or truly performed an exploit by accident. And simply choose to go about continuing to do so, to supply themselves. What happened to actually placing the blame in the company for the exploit being in existence in the first place? I've seen for myself people would rather treat others like trash, and degrade them, than say, "Hey. Hey _____, why didn't you thoroughly test _____ more? I mean, true indeed _____ shouldn't have exploited, but ultimately this is your fault for it having been there to begin with." So what happened to people blaming the true core source of the exploits at hand? What happened to when you found an exploit, you were heralded and you choose to share that knowledge with everyone to have everyone succeed. Why is it now everything is: Me, me, me. "Oh _____ has been able to get ______ as much as possible, while I haven't. So I hate them, I'm going to do any and everything I can to make their online life a living Hell. And while I'm at it, I'm going to rally a witch hunt, and humiliate any and everyone who tries to oppose my logic." Why? Why the selfishness and inconsiderateness?

So yes, I'm ultimately asking what happened. What happened to gaming as we know it. Seriously. What. Happened. I understand as communities grow larger, more bad apples are bound to arrive. But this is ridiculous. And it's like people are afraid to speak up about these things at hand, out of fear of being made fun of. And that itself isn't even cool. So please Elder Scrolls Online community. Please tell me what you think has happened to gaming and has caused it to transfer into what it is now.

The Grew Older, tackled a job,took on a significant other, Learned what bill paying priorities where, maybe even took on a new mouth or two to feed and Now yes now there know as a casual

I have to say this is true....but I really think arcade gaming is a factor in this. I noticed after arcade gaming hit big then diminished most arcade gamers turned to gaming systems or PCs the games changed. There was a influx of the overly competitive personality in the MMO community. I think people got confused with nature of what a MMO is and what a arcade game is. Thus creating a more demanding winner scenario, i.e. Cry babies.

You know, come to think of it... I do recall this influx in competitive behavior. I recall EverQuest literally shifting from a more laid back and relaxed tone, to more of a business and competitive tone. World of Warcraft as well. Except World of Warcraft had this a bit more evident than the former. Granted the time difference of both games being initially released.

And it's funny, because even in arcade environments, there wasn't as much negativity and toxic behavior overall. There really wasn't. I mean sure, you were competitive facing off against a random person in Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter. Or trying to best them in say Dance Dance Revolution, but it was all "good competition". Meaning, there were no personal attacks really being made until years much later. In fact, the FGC (Fighting Game Community) used to be quite welcoming overall. Considering it drew people from every: Ethnicity, gender, sexuality, etc. BUT! As arcades slowly died off, and gaming became more of a at-home/private thing, the toxicity of the FGC became what it is today.

So maybe there is a connection/link to gaming being from more of a social experience, to a private experience. But, I think there's still more elements that play a key factor into the decline of the gaming community (in terms of overall behavior and tolerance).

Alurria · May 2016

We can never go back...but we can each of us make a difference. Forming smaller sub communities where people are not left out because they don't have that special piece of gear, or reflexes that are not as good as they use to be and fore most always treat others as you want to be treated. I often have heard or seen people say they don't give respect to people they don't know...so wrong. How do you gain any respect for others if you are not willing to give any? Honor is not something you are born with its something you earn by example.

I do not see much honor in these forums or in games anymore. I am a person you are a person, we are humans, have compassion and respect, give those freely and you will gain so much more in return. This is what I've learned, it applies everywhere not just in gaming. I'm afraid those days will be forgotten in gaming. A thing of smoke rising up and disappearing forgotten and gone.

Ch4mpTW · May 2016

Necrelios wrote: »

Failed parenting. That's what happened.

Hm... I think that may be apart of it. Because when fighting games were at their top, or games depicting violence in general I should say -- there was a different kind of parenting. Parents taught their kids a bit differently at home in terms of behavior. They also taught their kids the difference between fantasy and reality.

Parents actually raised their kids, and taught them right from wrong. Nowadays the Internet and social media pretty much raise kids, and it's sad. Because this is clearly present in gaming to this day. You'll hear and see kids cussing up a storm on say Call of Duty, or sending hate mail through PSN or XBL. Calling people all kinds of racial slurs and making all kinds of hateful comments, all because say they were bested in a game. Had the parents done a better job teaching kids how to act, I don't think we'd see that too much in our chats and what not.

I remember my first ever game being Mortal Kombat for the SEGA Genesis, and I never took it upon myself to behave like the characters in the game. While people hear about that, they freakout now. They can't believe my parents would buy such a thing. But, they fail to understand that my parents taught me how to properly behave. I knew what I was playing was fake, and that if I did have an opponent that was human -- they were just that. Human. They had feelings, just as I had feelings. Which lead into treading others how I'd like to be treated. So yes, I definitely believe parenting has a huge roll into the state that gaming is in nowadays.

Which ties into this. You have kids who believe what they play and see in their games as reality. Now please don't mistake imagining things and pretending, to actually believing it to be real. A lot of the reasons why there is so much toxicity in gaming, as well as violence being done and blamed on gaming, is because I think parents aren't teaching their kids real from fake. They'll see their favorite character cussing up a storm, and treating people poorly. Then they'll go about thinking that's the way to act and think, when reality its not. When I was a little kid, I didn't think for a moment I should attempt to perform a fatality on a classmate because he stool my pencil or drank my Capri Sun. Or that I should try to roundhouse them off of the swing. No. I knew better than that. I knew that there would be serious consequences for that, and that my classmate had feelings just like me. And I wouldn't want anyone to inflict such bodily harm upon me. So, I would dissolve issues more peacefully. So yes. Overall I believe parenting plays a huge role into gaming's current state.

Elsonso · May 2016

rootimus wrote: »

I think in addition to what @Lysette said, there's also the fact that games are no longer made by gamers, but rather by multi-billion dollar corporations looking to make more money as quickly as possible. Exhibit A would obviously be EA's line of sport-related games, where they just change the year on the cover and move a few characters around, but there are others.

In general, game designers make poor businessmen, just like businessmen make poor game designers. The best game company will be a mix where the businessmen provide the funding and enablement while the game designers kick out awesome games that make everyone rich.

Zenimax Media seems to be built around that, but to what extent it is not clear, and to what extent they feel this important, vs just a happenstance, is also unclear. (EDIT: That opinion does not extend to ZOS, by the way. I think game takes backseat to business.)

As for what is wrong with gaming communities today, this is more a reflection on society than it is on games, game designers, or gamers.

Ch4mpTW · May 2016

lordrichter wrote: »

rootimus wrote: »

I think in addition to what @Lysette said, there's also the fact that games are no longer made by gamers, but rather by multi-billion dollar corporations looking to make more money as quickly as possible. Exhibit A would obviously be EA's line of sport-related games, where they just change the year on the cover and move a few characters around, but there are others.

In general, game designers make poor businessmen, just like businessmen make poor game designers. The best game company will be a mix where the businessmen provide the funding and enablement while the game designers kick out awesome games that make everyone rich.

Zenimax Media seems to be built around that, but to what extent it is not clear, and to what extent they feel this important, vs just a happenstance, is also unclear. (EDIT: That opinion does not extend to ZOS, by the way. I think game takes backseat to business.)

As for what is wrong with gaming communities today, this is more a reflection on society than it is on games, game designers, or gamers.

I believe there's a lot of truth in this. Game franchises like: God of War, Pokémon, Smash Bros., and hell even Mega Man are proof of this. They're games made by people who actually play games themselves. Granted they may not believe too much into competitive balance (e.g. Smash Bros. and maybe Pokémon), but they are fantastic games through and through. They're able to really get you hooked onto this games, and really immerse yourself into them. Or perhaps the ultimate example of a game able to draw people in --- World of Warcraft. And I believe there are more than enough stories of how WoW was able to have people hooked, and just how strong the addiction is/was of WoW players. And what do you know, a lot of the game developers of Blizzard are gamers themselves. And thus, supremely successful MMO.

Lysette · May 2016

Is there a book, telling the stories of players in WoW?- Guess, no, but there are a couple for EVE - IMO EVE will be the only MMO which will stand the test of time, because it has it all - passionate developers, excellent balancing without to make everyone the same, skill-driven, open-world, sand box, player-driven economy, huge variety of options, highly complex builds possible, history is written by the players. This game will be there in 10 years, in 20 years and as well in 30 years - it has all what it takes, it is made to last, not for the highest profit.

Ch4mpTW · May 2016

Lysette wrote: »

Is there a book, telling the stories of players in WoW?- Guess, no, but there are a couple for EVE - IMO EVE will be the only MMO which will stand the test of time, because it has it all - passionate developers, excellent balancing without to make everyone the same, skill-driven, open-world, sand box, player-driven economy, huge variety of options, highly complex builds possible, history is written by the players. This game will be there in 10 years, in 20 years and as well in 30 years - it has all what it takes, it is made to last, not for the highest profit.

Is there a book telling the stories of WoW players...? Um... I don't think so, but there may be. I know there was a segment on Oprah about World of Warcraft addiction, and a few news reports on it. So probably.

As for EVE, that game is what I'd like to call "the perfect outlier". And you listed exactly why. EVE isn't your typical MMO. By a long shot it isn't. It's one of those things that are literally awe-inspiring and just flat out amazing as to what the MMO genre can do. It really is. But, you have to look at what exactly is going on behind the scenes of EVE compared to say TESO:TU and or WoW or EQ. As well as what's going on mentally with the player base of EVE, compared to these other games. Do you understand what I'm getting at? It's like a whole other species, let alone animal comparing EVE to say TESO:TU. But! They both fall under the umbrella of "video games". Specifically MMOs (even though Mr. Fiore refuses to acknowledge TESO:TU as a MMO).

dday3six · May 2016

Lysette wrote: »

Is there a book, telling the stories of players in WoW?- Guess, no, but there are a couple for EVE - IMO EVE will be the only MMO which will stand the test of time, because it has it all - passionate developers, excellent balancing without to make everyone the same, skill-driven, open-world, sand box, player-driven economy, huge variety of options, highly complex builds possible, history is written by the players. This game will be there in 10 years, in 20 years and as well in 30 years - it has all what it takes, it is made to last, not for the highest profit.

EVE isn't a success story. CCP is heavily government subsidized. They've actually been struggling financially since 2011.

Lysette · May 2016

dday3six wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Is there a book, telling the stories of players in WoW?- Guess, no, but there are a couple for EVE - IMO EVE will be the only MMO which will stand the test of time, because it has it all - passionate developers, excellent balancing without to make everyone the same, skill-driven, open-world, sand box, player-driven economy, huge variety of options, highly complex builds possible, history is written by the players. This game will be there in 10 years, in 20 years and as well in 30 years - it has all what it takes, it is made to last, not for the highest profit.

EVE isn't a success story. CCP is heavily government subsidized. They've actually been struggling financially since 2011.

Nonsense.

Lysette · May 2016

Lysette wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Is there a book, telling the stories of players in WoW?- Guess, no, but there are a couple for EVE - IMO EVE will be the only MMO which will stand the test of time, because it has it all - passionate developers, excellent balancing without to make everyone the same, skill-driven, open-world, sand box, player-driven economy, huge variety of options, highly complex builds possible, history is written by the players. This game will be there in 10 years, in 20 years and as well in 30 years - it has all what it takes, it is made to last, not for the highest profit.

EVE isn't a success story. CCP is heavily government subsidized. They've actually been struggling financially since 2011.

Nonsense.

Yes, I know about the financial problems, but those are over and where not related to EVE, but to World of Darkness.

Edit: I took a close eye on their financial reports, as long as they had to publish them - and I can read balances.