@Wrobel , @ZOS_GinaBruno

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Just copy and pasting my idea from a similar thread about this same skill.

Heres what i would like to see done to Power Exraction:

-Change the ability to Disease/Poison/Physical damage. Which ever makes more sense.

-[NEW]: Instead of granting Major Brutality i would actually want this ability to remove Major Brutality/Sorcery from your opponents. This would match the name of the ability "power extraction".

The reason i would much rather power extraction take away power from your enemy rather then buffing your own is because i would like to see something different. Everyone talks about a replacement for rally but it reality, 2h buff bar will always remain. Most stamina nightblade's will be using it regardless because of the heal it provides and major brutality buffing from stealth. It really does suck to be forced to use 2h this way but its what we have to deal with. I play a stamina nightblade, i get it.

Power Extraction is also something that i do not think could ever replace Steel Tornado either. So i would much rather create an ability for bruiser/tank stamina nightblade's that could debuff other players damage. I don't want to see Power Extraction become a Steel Tornado or SAP Essence Clone. This could be a great AoE for 1H/S + 2H nightblades if the change i suggested got implemented.

I also do not think Power Extraction should mimic Sap Essence healing because you would be treading into SAP TANK identity which should remain a magicka thing.

Picture this:

>You are a Nightblade Bruiser with high health and stamina.
>You are using 1 hand + shield.
>You see a huge group of enemy's approaching your group.
>You then Jump in to the enemy group.
>You place down Bolstering Darkness down for reduced damage by 60%
>You start drawing a ton of attention
>You start using Power Extraction while blocking
>You start using Mass Hysteria a couple times
>Everyone is dealing very little damage to you as you debuff everyones damage
>Your group then comes in killing everyone

This is the kind of situation i would love to see.

If anyone has any thoughts on the changes i have suggested please feel free to quote me. I'm all for discussion about this particular ability.

Your idea is very similar to mine. Instead of granting speed or critical damage, my idea is taking away enemy players Major buff's which has also never been done before.

That idea itself is fine. I don't think there is a system which allows you to unbuff others. And also then it would be useless in PvE.

AoE minor maim + AoE slow, or stam return base on target hit would work great for stam NB tank.

DDuke wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

That idea itself is fine. I don't think there is a system which allows you to unbuff others. And also then it would be useless in PvE.

Negate comes to mind immediately. Buff removal isn't completely worthless in PvE, but it is exceedingly situational, and sometimes counter-intuitive.

It would be a nice ability to include along side other things that make it usable in PvE, however.

Wait, negate removes buffs too from other players?

I thought it just silences & prevents casting new ones.

I'm pretty sure it used to. It's been a long time since I've been on the receiving end of it in Cyrodiil, though. So that could have changed. Or my memory could be faulty.

emily3989 wrote: »

Every ability is a valid choice for PvE in this game. You could give me 5 random abilities every time I logged on and I would be fine.

There will ALWAYS BE one option that is better than the others for a specific damage type, and the min/maxers will always gravitate towards it, eventually making it the "only valid option". Then the sheep will read the forums and create a build using this ability because it is the end game meta, and wonder why they don't understand the game when they get max lvl and can't be competitive.

There is absolutely no way a game like this can implement 10 diff AOE abilities for say stamina and expect them all to be just as viable as each other in one specific game aspect (PvE in this case).

I imagine there are some abilities in this game that are never slotted - the way it is. At least you are not playing WoW and you have 20 abilities on your screen you don't even use 90% of the time.

You basically mean to say that when multiple skills are available to a player which fill the same role, there would always be one ability which outplays the rest and true balance can never be reached. Well, that isn't totally true and there are many skills in the game which fill the same role with similar efficiency as well. They might perform differently in two different situations. where one is better in one situation where as the other one is better in another situation. Let me provide examples:

1) Wrecking Blow and Surprise Attack - Using either ability will yield you very similar DPS. WB deals more per hit than SA but SA can be used more times in a fixed duration. SA has an added debuff where as WB has an added buff.
2) Biting Jabs and the new Flurry in DB patch - On testing either out, they both had a very close DPS. Flurry is extremely fast at 6 hits in 0.6 secs. Biting Jabs is slower at 4 hits at 1.1 sec but individual hits are harder. One morph of flurry also heals you, while the other surpasses Biting Jabs in DPS. Biting Jabs also buffs you with added Crit. Chance and has 25% to deal extra damage per hit and has higher range.
3) Executioner and the new Killer's Blade - Killer's Blade used on DW and Executioner yielded almost the same DPS during execution phases of bosses. Killer's Blade costs significantly lesser and deals higher DPS between 25%-13.5% health of a boss. Executioner on the other hand starts scaling from 50% and surpasses Killer's Blade in DPS at around 13.5% health of an enemy.

As you can see, these well-balanced choices lead to the heterogeneity of builds and characters in all types of Combat. You will a lot of players using either of the choices.
I believe the skills lacking in this regard should be upgraded to add more balanced choices in the game without breaking or nerfing the current best skills.

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Just copy and pasting my idea from a similar thread about this same skill.

Heres what i would like to see done to Power Exraction:

-Change the ability to Disease/Poison/Physical damage. Which ever makes more sense.

-[NEW]: Instead of granting Major Brutality i would actually want this ability to remove Major Brutality/Sorcery from your opponents. This would match the name of the ability "power extraction".

The reason i would much rather power extraction take away power from your enemy rather then buffing your own is because i would like to see something different. Everyone talks about a replacement for rally but it reality, 2h buff bar will always remain. Most stamina nightblade's will be using it regardless because of the heal it provides and major brutality buffing from stealth. It really does suck to be forced to use 2h this way but its what we have to deal with. I play a stamina nightblade, i get it.

Power Extraction is also something that i do not think could ever replace Steel Tornado either. So i would much rather create an ability for bruiser/tank stamina nightblade's that could debuff other players damage. I don't want to see Power Extraction become a Steel Tornado or SAP Essence Clone. This could be a great AoE for 1H/S + 2H nightblades if the change i suggested got implemented.

I also do not think Power Extraction should mimic Sap Essence healing because you would be treading into SAP TANK identity which should remain a magicka thing.

Picture this:

>You are a Nightblade Bruiser with high health and stamina.
>You are using 1 hand + shield.
>You see a huge group of enemy's approaching your group.
>You then Jump in to the enemy group.
>You place down Bolstering Darkness down for reduced damage by 60%
>You start drawing a ton of attention
>You start using Power Extraction while blocking
>You start using Mass Hysteria a couple times
>Everyone is dealing very little damage to you as you debuff everyones damage
>Your group then comes in killing everyone

This is the kind of situation i would love to see.

If anyone has any thoughts on the changes i have suggested please feel free to quote me. I'm all for discussion about this particular ability.

Your idea is very similar to mine. Instead of granting speed or critical damage, my idea is taking away enemy players Major buff's which has also never been done before.

That idea itself is fine. I don't think there is a system which allows you to unbuff others. And also then it would be useless in PvE.

What do you mean? This is exactly what poisons are now capable of xD. Instead of draining major buffs it could just take away a flat % of resistance or something so it's viable for pve as well. I dunno.

Well, taking away somebody's buffs or just debuffing them is quite different. And Nightblades already have several ways of debuffing others.

This'd be a good move @ZOS_RichLambert .

myrrrorb14_ESO wrote: »

Just unlocked this morph a few days ago and it seems okay so far. Hits decently hard for an aoe and I like the animation for it. Steel Tornado was nice, but I took the other morph. But the general concensus is that the dual wield is better than power extraction?

The nightblade to me is one of the best classes I've played. It actually has more class abilities that I would want to play than slots to put them in.

Yes steel Tornado is 9000% better.

-Steel Tornado deals one of the stamina based damage types, Power Extraction does not.
-Steel Tornado does double damage to low hp targets, Power Extraction does not.
-Steel Tornado deals even more damage against players with lower then 25% hp and 15% more against cc'd/immobile targets... Power Extraction does not.

We don't want to see a SAP Essence or Steel Tornado 2.0 though.

Even if Power Extraction dealt one of the stamina damage types, it would still be very under par when compared to steel tornado. There are a couple reasons why this ability is still good though.

-Power Extraction can be block casted with sword and board users.
-Power Extraction is un-dodge-able.
-Power Extraction grants little ultimate on use, little increased healing and magicka while slotted.

When comparing both morphs of Drain Power, SAP Essence is viable because of the self heals while using it on several targets. While Power Extraction only now scales off stamina while dealing magic damage which is hardly comparable. So now people of the community are now trying to buff this ability so its used more often.

I believe this ability would be very easy to change. Just add in the stamina damage type and some other effect. However the effect must be different then SAP Essence but also fall into the "siphoning" category. My suggestion was to debuff enemy Major weapon/spell damage buffs. Another alternative would be to decrease the cost of the ability depending on how many targets you hit. Something to give incentive to use the ability is what i wanna see really.

susmitds wrote: »

emily3989 wrote: »

Every ability is a valid choice for PvE in this game. You could give me 5 random abilities every time I logged on and I would be fine.

There will ALWAYS BE one option that is better than the others for a specific damage type, and the min/maxers will always gravitate towards it, eventually making it the "only valid option". Then the sheep will read the forums and create a build using this ability because it is the end game meta, and wonder why they don't understand the game when they get max lvl and can't be competitive.

There is absolutely no way a game like this can implement 10 diff AOE abilities for say stamina and expect them all to be just as viable as each other in one specific game aspect (PvE in this case).

I imagine there are some abilities in this game that are never slotted - the way it is. At least you are not playing WoW and you have 20 abilities on your screen you don't even use 90% of the time.

1) Wrecking Blow and Surprise Attack - Using either ability will yield you very similar DPS. WB deals more per hit than SA but SA can be used more times in a fixed duration. SA has an added debuff where as WB has an added buff.


As you can see, these well-balanced choices lead to the heterogeneity of builds and characters in all types of Combat. You will a lot of players using either of the choices.
I believe the skills lacking in this regard should be upgraded to add more balanced choices in the game without breaking or nerfing the current best skills.

LMAO, you are comparing 2 ST abilities and explaining how they are interchangeable...

how about the other 15+ ST abilities that nobody ever slots?

Jabs is not ST mate. Point is there are probably at least 20 abilities in this game that could be the title of this post (or more) since none of them are in any PvE or PvP meta build. And they all will never be, it's impossible. So, slot something else and move on. Or change to magika and do real AOE dps.