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Harness Magic (Annulment morph) Feedback

ThatNeonZebraAgain
ThatNeonZebraAgain
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To date Harness Magic (morph of Light armor ability Annulment) been a key way to maintain Magicka and mitigate damage because it gave you a spell-only damage shield that recouped its own cost plus a little extra. Since it only absorbed a certain kind of damage and had a somewhat long duration, you were guaranteed to gain back Magicka based on how many incoming spells you were facing. If you were fighting all spell users the shield would dissolve quickly but give you magicka more quickly; or if you were fighting mostly physical damage users it gave you a tool to lock down any spells they might throw at you while helping manage your magicka over the course of the entire fight.

Now that Harness Magic, as well as the base ability and the Dampen Magic morph, (1) absorbs physical damage, and (2) expires in 6 seconds, and (3) costs significantly more, this ability has become a big magicka expense that drains more magicka than it recoups, thus making it more of a liability than an asset. In PvE especially, I found that I had better resource management and survivability when I removed the skill from my bar. As I solo'd through Spindleclutch, I realized that the sustain part of the ability is gone from the equation in its usefulness when fighting any opponent using physical damage. On a typical mob pack where you have a mix of melee and caster mobs (or a boss that does both physical and spell damage attacks), it was the more frequent/numerous physical attacks that ate up annulment's shield without giving the spell attacks much of a chance to help balance the now-very high magicka cost of the ability. So after taking Harness Magic off my bar because of how costly and unreliable it had become for what it offered, I found it much more effective to simply out-heal incoming damage (mix of Swallow Soul, Refreshing Path, Rapid Regen and Sap Essence). By doing so, I was simply expending less Magicka to stay alive, while also gaining all the other primary, secondary, and passive benefits of those abilities. I think annulment will still be useful in certain encounters (especially certain spell-focused bosses), but by and large it looks like it is coming off my bars.

While I get the 6 second duration (at least in theory, I don't like blanket changes like this), I also don't really understand the design change in general where all shields now absorb all types of damage. Magicka builds had class shields, Annulment, and Healing Ward at their disposal, so annulment mitigating all damage types and drastically shortening the duration actually undermines what makes the ability uniquely useful for those builds. While I doubt ZOS will change the duration since that is a game-wide change to damage shields, maybe the Harness Magic morph could return stamina (though a lesser amount compared to its magicka return) when absorbing physical damage? At least then you would be getting something back even if it was still a massive magicka drain. I dunno, just an idea; the ability used to be so useful and now it's not.

What are other people's experiences with this? Am I missing something that makes this ability still worth using?
Edited by ThatNeonZebraAgain on May 3, 2016 4:13PM
Gore-of-the-Forest Argonian Nightblade
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  • Sugaroverdose
    Sugaroverdose
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    Shieldstackers in pvp are insanely happy that now they have same protection from stamina builds as from magicka builds.

    I can't really get any logic in HW, Boneshield and Annulment changes, it doesn't fixes anything from PvP perspective, only makes magsorcs much more vulnerable for gankers, and in other hand makes them unkillable while they spam shield 100% of time.
    Edited by Sugaroverdose on May 2, 2016 4:51PM
  • ThatNeonZebraAgain
    ThatNeonZebraAgain
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    Shieldstackers in pvp are insanely happy that now they have same protection from stamina builds as from magicka builds.

    I can't really get any logic in HW, Boneshield and Annulment changes, it doesn't fixes anything from PvP perspective, only makes magsorcs much more vulnerable for gankers.

    But isn't that what Healing Ward and class damage shields are for? 1v1 against a stam build Harness Magic might still be worth it, but any more than that and it drains magicka much too quickly. Healing Ward and class shields are better options against stam attacks in nearly all situations. The advantage of using Harness now in PvP is you aren't limited to having Resto Staff to get a general purpose damage shield, but like I said, it can quickly eat up your resources (from my experience).
    Gore-of-the-Forest Argonian Nightblade
    Wode Earthrender Breton Dragonknight
    Ceol the Last Baron Redguard Dragonknight
    Wayra High Elf Sorceress
    Erebain Salothran Dark Elf Templar
    Rituals-of-the-Forest Argonian Warden
  • Nestor
    Nestor
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    My whole issue is with the 6 second duration. I only have one character that uses Shields, fortunately she is my Master Crafter. So, parking her at a Crafting station is probably what is going to happen to her. I will try to play the character, but I don't hold out much hope for her. Shame, she was my favorite to take into Dungeons.
    Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.

    PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
    Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"

  • Kildayen
    Kildayen
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    I hate the changes they made. I don't want harness magicka to take physical damage. It should stay the way it was. I'm so disappointed in this change. It's as if zero thought was put into it.
  • Sugaroverdose
    Sugaroverdose
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    Shieldstackers in pvp are insanely happy that now they have same protection from stamina builds as from magicka builds.

    I can't really get any logic in HW, Boneshield and Annulment changes, it doesn't fixes anything from PvP perspective, only makes magsorcs much more vulnerable for gankers.

    But isn't that what Healing Ward and class damage shields are for? 1v1 against a stam build Harness Magic might still be worth it, but any more than that and it drains magicka much too quickly. Healing Ward and class shields are better options against stam attacks in nearly all situations. The advantage of using Harness now in PvP is you aren't limited to having Resto Staff to get a general purpose damage shield, but like I said, it can quickly eat up your resources (from my experience).
    This changes are forces magsorc to use shieldstacking in battle and be completely unprotected in any other time, and this is bad from my PoV

    People asked a lot to fix shieldstacking, but ZOS decided to boost it while overall magsorc survivability has been nerfed. Some people do think that 6s HW is a good nerf, but from my PoV it changes nothing in direct fight in PvP, there's will be even more people who will ask to nerf magsorcs who was already nerfed but in wrong direction.

    So shield changes has made without even one attempt to predict what they actually will do with already known issues.
  • Morimizo
    Morimizo
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    Kildayen wrote: »
    I hate the changes they made. I don't want harness magicka to take physical damage. It should stay the way it was. I'm so disappointed in this change. It's as if zero thought was put into it.

    I agree, and if ZOS wanted to limit shield stacking, this change DOES NOT fix it. It only amplifies it.

    It's not the length of the shield; in a serious fight, those are eaten through quickly and need to be recast anyway.

    ZOS should be more creative with buffs, and instead of having multiple shields to stack, have one for each class, and leave unusual skills like annulment alone.

    I won't mention my other buff favorites here, or they'll get nerfed down to 6 seconds too, making them a worthless waste of resources.
  • Sugaroverdose
    Sugaroverdose
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    Morimizo wrote: »
    Kildayen wrote: »
    I hate the changes they made. I don't want harness magicka to take physical damage. It should stay the way it was. I'm so disappointed in this change. It's as if zero thought was put into it.

    I agree, and if ZOS wanted to limit shield stacking, this change DOES NOT fix it. It only amplifies it.

    It's not the length of the shield; in a serious fight, those are eaten through quickly and need to be recast anyway.

    ZOS should be more creative with buffs, and instead of having multiple shields to stack, have one for each class, and leave unusual skills like annulment alone.

    I won't mention my other buff favorites here, or they'll get nerfed down to 6 seconds too, making them a worthless waste of resources.
    Evasion and Blur? If they will be switched to 6 second no-one will use them :smile:
  • Morimizo
    Morimizo
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    Morimizo wrote: »
    Kildayen wrote: »
    I hate the changes they made. I don't want harness magicka to take physical damage. It should stay the way it was. I'm so disappointed in this change. It's as if zero thought was put into it.

    I agree, and if ZOS wanted to limit shield stacking, this change DOES NOT fix it. It only amplifies it.

    It's not the length of the shield; in a serious fight, those are eaten through quickly and need to be recast anyway.

    ZOS should be more creative with buffs, and instead of having multiple shields to stack, have one for each class, and leave unusual skills like annulment alone.

    I won't mention my other buff favorites here, or they'll get nerfed down to 6 seconds too, making them a worthless waste of resources.
    Evasion and Blur? If they will be switched to 6 second no-one will use them :smile:

    Move along, ZOS, nothing to see here...I'm sure I don't know what you're talking about...:P
  • Sugaroverdose
    Sugaroverdose
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    Morimizo wrote: »
    Morimizo wrote: »
    Kildayen wrote: »
    I hate the changes they made. I don't want harness magicka to take physical damage. It should stay the way it was. I'm so disappointed in this change. It's as if zero thought was put into it.

    I agree, and if ZOS wanted to limit shield stacking, this change DOES NOT fix it. It only amplifies it.

    It's not the length of the shield; in a serious fight, those are eaten through quickly and need to be recast anyway.

    ZOS should be more creative with buffs, and instead of having multiple shields to stack, have one for each class, and leave unusual skills like annulment alone.

    I won't mention my other buff favorites here, or they'll get nerfed down to 6 seconds too, making them a worthless waste of resources.
    Evasion and Blur? If they will be switched to 6 second no-one will use them :smile:

    Move along, ZOS, nothing to see here...I'm sure I don't know what you're talking about...:P
    Sorry bro, i like guessing :blush:
  • r.jan_emailb16_ESO
    r.jan_emailb16_ESO
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    So you complain that you can't solo a dungeon anymore becaue of these changes? Maybe you should make up a real argument and come back.
    Lairgren | DC Dragonknight - August Palatine
    playing for eXile


    I'm done, CU somewhere else.
  • Sugaroverdose
    Sugaroverdose
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    So you complain that you can't solo a dungeon anymore becaue of these changes? Maybe you should make up a real argument and come back.
    Magplars still can.

  • ThatNeonZebraAgain
    ThatNeonZebraAgain
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    So you complain that you can't solo a dungeon anymore becaue of these changes? Maybe you should make up a real argument and come back.

    You missed the point, and nowhere do I complain about the dungeon. Going through the dungeon was just a way to test my current build on Live and all the changes that might affect it. I wasn't crunching numbers, just going through it comparing gameplay experience on PTS vs what I know from hundreds of Spindleclutch runs on Live. Pretty much all the vet dungeons can be either solo'd or duo'd. I went through solo because it's hard to find people to group with on the PTS.
    Edited by ThatNeonZebraAgain on May 2, 2016 8:24PM
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    Wode Earthrender Breton Dragonknight
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  • Docmandu
    Docmandu
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    Morimizo wrote: »
    Kildayen wrote: »
    I hate the changes they made. I don't want harness magicka to take physical damage. It should stay the way it was. I'm so disappointed in this change. It's as if zero thought was put into it.

    I agree, and if ZOS wanted to limit shield stacking, this change DOES NOT fix it. It only amplifies it.

    It's not the length of the shield; in a serious fight, those are eaten through quickly and need to be recast anyway.

    ZOS should be more creative with buffs, and instead of having multiple shields to stack, have one for each class, and leave unusual skills like annulment alone.

    I won't mention my other buff favorites here, or they'll get nerfed down to 6 seconds too, making them a worthless waste of resources.

    Blazing shield, protection rune, ...
  • Ajaxduo
    Ajaxduo
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    I think that the added physical damage absorption should of been added to the 'Dampen Magic' morph. Having a morph which absorbs both physical, magical damage and grants back magicka when absorbing spell damage seems a bit...much.
    - - -
    GM of Verum Aeternus, PC EU
    - - -
  • KenaPKK
    KenaPKK
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    Morimizo wrote: »
    Kildayen wrote: »
    I hate the changes they made. I don't want harness magicka to take physical damage. It should stay the way it was. I'm so disappointed in this change. It's as if zero thought was put into it.

    I agree, and if ZOS wanted to limit shield stacking, this change DOES NOT fix it. It only amplifies it.

    It's not the length of the shield; in a serious fight, those are eaten through quickly and need to be recast anyway.

    ZOS should be more creative with buffs, and instead of having multiple shields to stack, have one for each class, and leave unusual skills like annulment alone.

    I won't mention my other buff favorites here, or they'll get nerfed down to 6 seconds too, making them a worthless waste of resources.
    Evasion and Blur? If they will be switched to 6 second no-one will use them :smile:

    I am so ok with this. RNG dodge chance has no place in competitive PvP games in my personal opinion.

    I also don't like straight up damage shields when we have as many resources as CP give us...but that's probably a less popular opinion. :tongue:
    Edited by KenaPKK on May 3, 2016 1:53AM
    Kena
    Former Class Rep
    Former Legend GM
    Beta player
  • Rva_Kun
    Rva_Kun
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    #Buffsorcs
    Actions Speak Louder Than Words.
    Fear Over The Internet = Priceless.
    Correcting Ego's Since 03'
    NA > EU

  • hrothbern
    hrothbern
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    To date Annulment and its morphs have been a key way to maintain Magicka and mitigate damage because it gave you a spell-only damage shield that recouped its own cost plus a little extra. Since it only absorbed a certain kind of damage and had a somewhat long duration, you were guaranteed to gain back Magicka based on how many incoming spells you were facing. If you were fighting all spell users the shield would dissolve quickly but give you magicka more quickly; or if you were fighting mostly physical damage users it gave you a tool to lock down any spells they might throw at you while helping manage your magicka over the course of the entire fight.

    Now that Annulment and its morphs (1) absorb physical damage, and (2) expire in 6 seconds, and (3) cost significantly more, this ability has become a big magicka expense that drains more magicka than it recoups, thus making it more of a liability than an asset. In PvE especially, I found that I had better resource management and survivability when I removed the skill from my bar. As I solo'd through Spindleclutch, I realized that the sustain part of the ability is gone from the equation in its usefulness when fighting any opponent using physical damage. On a typical mob pack where you have a mix of melee and caster mobs (or a boss that does both physical and spell damage attacks), it was the more frequent/numerous physical attacks that ate up annulment's shield without giving the spell attacks much of a chance to help balance the now-very high magicka cost of the ability. So after taking Harness Magic off my bar because of how costly and unreliable it had become for what it offered, I found it much more effective to simply out-heal incoming damage (mix of Swallow Soul, Refreshing Path, Rapid Regen and Sap Essence). By doing so, I was simply expending less Magicka to stay alive, while also gaining all the other primary, secondary, and passive benefits of those abilities. I think annulment will still be useful in certain encounters (especially certain spell-focused bosses), but by and large it looks like it is coming off my bars.

    While I get the 6 second duration (at least in theory, I don't like blanket changes like this), I also don't really understand the design change in general where all shields now absorb all types of damage. Magicka builds had class shields, Annulment, and Healing Ward at their disposal, so annulment mitigating all damage types and drastically shortening the duration actually undermines what makes the ability uniquely useful for those builds. While I doubt ZOS will change the duration since that is a game-wide change to damage shields, maybe the Harness Magic morph could return stamina (though a lesser amount compared to its magicka return) when absorbing physical damage? At least then you would be getting something back even if it was still a massive magicka drain. I dunno, just an idea; the ability used to be so useful and now it's not.

    What are other people's experiences with this? Am I missing something that makes this ability still worth using?

    Jip @ThatNeonZebraAgain , as it is now, For a miti build, like you have to some degree (yes ?), Harness Magicka becomes a situational ability for a Spell Damage situation only.
    (the DK Igneous Shield, also expensive, same size as Harness, gives for a miti build also the miti build buff of Major Mending)

    I think it is a kind of collateral damage on Annulment because of the general adressing balancing Shields and also simplify.

    But still, comparing all kinds of Damage Shields with Costs and size of Shield and other benefits, Annulment morphs do seem much more expensive than the other Shields.

    IF you take the Dampen Magic morph, which can be better compared "like for like" with the Sorc Hardened Ward than most of the other Shields, because they have all additional other benefits:
    1. you get in 7/7 LA for Dampen Magic a Damage Shield that is 12% bigger than Hardened Ward
    2. you pay for Dampen Magic 30% more Magicka than Hardened Ward
    3. Hardened Ward has as additional benefit that it wards pets as well if you would use those.

    So one simple way to get Dampen Magic on par is to decrease the costs with 18% (feels better to me than increase the size with 18%).
    And considering the decreased chance that Harness Magicka procs, why not the same lower costs for Harness Magicka ?


    Edited by hrothbern on May 3, 2016 8:56AM
    "I still do not understand why I followed the advice of Captain Rana to bring the villagers of Bleakrock into safety. We should have fought for our village and not have backed down, with our tail between our legs. Now my home village is in shambles, the houses burning, the invaders feasting.I swear every day to Shor that after Molag Bal has been defeated, I will hunt down the invaders and restore peace in Bleakrock and drink my mead with my friends at the market place".PC-EU
  • olsborg
    olsborg
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    Shieldstackers in pvp are insanely happy that now they have same protection from stamina builds as from magicka builds.

    I can't really get any logic in HW, Boneshield and Annulment changes, it doesn't fixes anything from PvP perspective, only makes magsorcs much more vulnerable for gankers, and in other hand makes them unkillable while they spam shield 100% of time.

    Basicly this, shieldstacking/spamming meta has been QQed about for years and instead of making it better, ZOS is making it worse, I dont understand this decision to make every shield protect against all types of dmg, the 6 seconds duration is mostly irrelevant because players burst dmg happens way faster then 6 seconds...now all you have to do is stand there spamming shields, it was the reason I dropped playing magicka build, stacking harness and other shields vs magicka dmg....lesigh
    Edited by olsborg on May 3, 2016 8:56AM

    PC EU
    PvP only
  • Kas
    Kas
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    Shieldstackers in pvp are insanely happy that now they have same protection from stamina builds as from magicka builds.

    I can't really get any logic in HW, Boneshield and Annulment changes, it doesn't fixes anything from PvP perspective, only makes magsorcs much more vulnerable for gankers, and in other hand makes them unkillable while they spam shield 100% of time.

    this is not right. i don't know how much you played on pts, but i did quite a bit and no shieldstacker was happy.
    sorcs already have a shield to absorb phys damage. stacking both protects against bigger bursts but also is quite costly in terms of both, magicka and time/actions used. while under pressure, casting one shield has a similar effect at least. It would have been a buff with long-lasting shields because you'd run around out-of-fight incredibly protected against both, magical and physical damage. but with the 6s changes, it's not that relevant that the shield also absorbs physical damage. Personally, I've had the best success when I dropped harness for efficient purge in duels (though that may also have to do.

    non-sorcs usually don't commit strongly enough into magicka+bastion meaning they get slightly less out of the shield and thus experience something like OP described. likewise, people were quick to shout that stamina builds will now be glass cannons using bone shield. i haven't seen anyone do this successfully on the pts. instead people still prefer vigor+shuffle which mitigates far more attacks than two shields.

    the biggest advantge of shields is that they can be spammed to make oneself very hard to take down while under pressure. again, this is a situation where one shields is enough (sorcs) or a shield is not efficient enough (builds without much in bastion). that said, personally, i'd love short-lived (6s or less) shields that are even stornger than the strongest sorcs now, but NEVER sustainable (e.g. 5 times the current magicka/stamina costs). Thus you have to react quickly if you want to sue a shield and both, always keeping it up and spamming for several minutes are no options. Fighting a shield player would then mean that you really fight his magicka pool. Right now, decent shield builds sustain themselves as logn as they want and, if anything, run out of stamina to be bursted down during a long CC that cannot be broken anymore. I'd prefer if we'd fight a around a sorcs magicka pool, not their stamina pool (without making either side OP/too weak, ofc)
    @bbu - AD/EU
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    + many others
  • oibam
    oibam
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    why do players want a strong defnsive spell for free?
  • Septimus_Magna
    Septimus_Magna
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    As a magicka NB Im pretty happy with these changes. It will be very hard to kill a cloaking NB with Healing Ward and Dampen Magic.

    I dont really care about the cost because I wont have to spam it like sorcs.

    Magicka Templars and DKs will also be significantly stronger. 1v1 vs Templars will be a nightmare now that I think of it.
    PC - EU (AD)
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  • Ishammael
    Ishammael
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    KenaPKK wrote: »
    Morimizo wrote: »
    Kildayen wrote: »
    I hate the changes they made. I don't want harness magicka to take physical damage. It should stay the way it was. I'm so disappointed in this change. It's as if zero thought was put into it.

    I agree, and if ZOS wanted to limit shield stacking, this change DOES NOT fix it. It only amplifies it.

    It's not the length of the shield; in a serious fight, those are eaten through quickly and need to be recast anyway.

    ZOS should be more creative with buffs, and instead of having multiple shields to stack, have one for each class, and leave unusual skills like annulment alone.

    I won't mention my other buff favorites here, or they'll get nerfed down to 6 seconds too, making them a worthless waste of resources.
    Evasion and Blur? If they will be switched to 6 second no-one will use them :smile:

    I am so ok with this. RNG dodge chance has no place in competitive PvP games in my personal opinion.

    I also don't like straight up damage shields when we have as many resources as CP give us...but that's probably a less popular opinion. :tongue:

    I agree with Kena. I loathe RNG effects (evasion, crit, gear chests, etc.).

    For instance:
    I would rather Evasion give something like % damage reduction
    and
    Crit be changed to give bonus damage on every Nth attack (so that it is predictable both for play and counter-play).

    RE: shields. They wouldn't be a problem without CPs and no softcaps (huge mana = huge shield, regen = always re-castable). Damage shields were not a problem in 1.5
  • ThatNeonZebraAgain
    ThatNeonZebraAgain
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    @Wrobel since you seem to be in the posting mood today :D
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  • Joy_Division
    Joy_Division
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    I guess I am not seeing the problem here. The Dampen morph never returned resources and I often see players using that morph in my combat log so there are players out there that value the protective ability of the shield more than the potential resource return.
    Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.
  • ThatNeonZebraAgain
    ThatNeonZebraAgain
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    I guess I am not seeing the problem here. The Dampen morph never returned resources and I often see players using that morph in my combat log so there are players out there that value the protective ability of the shield more than the potential resource return.

    Good point. I edited the OP to show I was talking about Harness Magic. It's not a big huge issue, just noting my experiences using one of my go-to abilities that is being affected by changes in this update.
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  • Sugaroverdose
    Sugaroverdose
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    There's so much ways to address thing specifically for pvp (who remembers chains specific debuff in battle spirit?)

    From my PoV how shieldstacking nerf should looks like:
    1. HW and Annulment should and must have their old duration
    2. Annulment cost must be increased twice
    3. Harness magicka must be 25% cheaper, should not protect from physical damage and return ~50% of it's cost in PVP, while in PVE it should return something like 75% of it's cost, also magicka return must be at the end of shield duration, it's destruction, or refreshing and scales from % of absorbed damage
    4. Dampen magic stays with double cost, but also protects from physical damage+actual protection boost
    Edited by Sugaroverdose on May 3, 2016 5:08PM
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