NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

altemriel wrote: »

but the best thing that she is saying, that the level progression is going to be connected to your account, not character, so all your alts will be buffed up to your main character, that is pretty good. as soon as they reach cp 50, they will be buffed up to the main character, good , they would be able to share gear and play to gether as in pvp, so in pve content.

The thing is CP isn't making your stronger. I fear that so many are confusing "stronger" with effective. CP's make you effective.

Stat and skill points as well as skill ranks and unlocks to morphs make you stronger. Doing more skills quests can make you stronger. CP...if I put 100 point in key Passives, I becomes focused or more effective but not stronger.

I can use CP to do more %of damage or Frits and stuff but that's like going from green or blue gear to yellow.
Stronger and better is when my stats increase so that my magic, health and stamina increase. If I'm still able to be 1-shot or cast an effect that drains my magica and I only have X amount.....regardless of how much more effective I am, I still fail.

So other than the few CP's most aren't making us stronger overall like VR level did. Gain level and base stats go up and u get a stat point to add vs passive increases on a diminishing return.

Not saying it's bad but I'm saying using Cp to defermine if you're progressing is going to end up being worse than VR cause you can't scale ppl based on Cp. you can't determine if someone can do content based on the number of CPs.

Maybe it's why the cap hasn't changed cause someone with ZOS realizes they have a mess and didn't remove the VRs which needs to happen before trying to move progression to any other system.

You do know that CP increase your health, stamina and magicka too right ?

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

altemriel wrote: »

but the best thing that she is saying, that the level progression is going to be connected to your account, not character, so all your alts will be buffed up to your main character, that is pretty good. as soon as they reach cp 50, they will be buffed up to the main character, good , they would be able to share gear and play to gether as in pvp, so in pve content.

The thing is CP isn't making your stronger. I fear that so many are confusing "stronger" with effective. CP's make you effective.

Stat and skill points as well as skill ranks and unlocks to morphs make you stronger. Doing more skills quests can make you stronger. CP...if I put 100 point in key Passives, I becomes focused or more effective but not stronger.

I can use CP to do more %of damage or Frits and stuff but that's like going from green or blue gear to yellow.
Stronger and better is when my stats increase so that my magic, health and stamina increase. If I'm still able to be 1-shot or cast an effect that drains my magica and I only have X amount.....regardless of how much more effective I am, I still fail.

So other than the few CP's most aren't making us stronger overall like VR level did. Gain level and base stats go up and u get a stat point to add vs passive increases on a diminishing return.

Not saying it's bad but I'm saying using Cp to defermine if you're progressing is going to end up being worse than VR cause you can't scale ppl based on Cp. you can't determine if someone can do content based on the number of CPs.

Maybe it's why the cap hasn't changed cause someone with ZOS realizes they have a mess and didn't remove the VRs which needs to happen before trying to move progression to any other system.

whats the different between vet and vet removed?
vet not even removed, they are change into the CP system, VR 10 = CP100...
CP not make you stronger?, so does vet system, why vet make you stronger?, the equip will scale to your CP anyway rather than the old VR level, LF VR16 for gold plede?, just simply LF CP160 gold pledge, theres no difference whatsoever, it still make you "stronger" if you will

as for stats point, because they already confirmed that the skill point will be the same, only distributed different way from level 1 - 50 to make it equal , and for the skill point....well no one really force you to stop doing cadwell, if you want to earn those SP then go doing cadwell all over again

Jennifur_Vultee wrote: »

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

But they're not going away, they're just being renamed into a new convoluted system that also happens to raise the base cost of everything across the board by 16% and nerfing your future 50+ characters when they start Cadwell Silver.

I'm glad I'm not the only one to see this. When I try to point it out people say I'm just being negative but as I see it Zenimax has done nothing to change things but is instead playing the old shell game with names to pacify people.

You mean its fair because we're gaining something AND losing something? Man....What charlatans ZOS is for that. I mean......the cake is a lie amirite?

Am I the only person that sees there is no difference here? They are just adding a 0 (zero) to the end of Vet Ranks...

Bait and switch guys.

VR16 now equals CP160
VR15 = CP150
VR14 = CP140
VR13 = CP130
etc etc etc

Only now we can have CP3600 which equals VR360!!!!! WOOOHOOOO jokes on all of us suckers

That being said I have no problem with this whatsoever, I love virtually unlimited character progression. Nothing makes me happier!

Edit: and of course the big dif is that CP's are shared account wide so no more extra grind after an alt reaches 50, that's the real change.

What I really want more than anything is zone scaling, whether every zone is treated exactly llike our DLC's or we have some kind of power reduction when entering old zones (exp GW2 SWTOR) I want to be able to go anywhere in Tamriel and not be 'wasting' time/exp.

Doncellius wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

altemriel wrote: »

but the best thing that she is saying, that the level progression is going to be connected to your account, not character, so all your alts will be buffed up to your main character, that is pretty good. as soon as they reach cp 50, they will be buffed up to the main character, good , they would be able to share gear and play to gether as in pvp, so in pve content.

I think will eventually prove to be a bad thing for eso and will shorten the total amount of time players spend in ESO.

The lack of progression will lead to bored players.

Flocks of people left ESO the moment they hit V1. Why? Because the grind was atrocious, and they had thought they would be "Max Level".

With VR going away people can actually make new endgame characters AND play with them.

Believe me, the removal of Vet Ranks is a very good thing for ESO, whether or not you specifically like.

It will appear to immediately be a good thing @Doncellius , but it will be for the short term (in terms of MMO timelines). In the long term, we will see players who enjoy progression get bored and players who cried that they didn't like VR ranks start to complain about not wanting to level their characters 1-50 anymore.

I wouldn't be surprised of what @anitajoneb17_ESO mentioned is the direction this is going to go.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

IMO skill points and guild skill lines should also be unlocked account-wide, in order for the system to be consistent.

Gidorick wrote: »

Doncellius wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

altemriel wrote: »

but the best thing that she is saying, that the level progression is going to be connected to your account, not character, so all your alts will be buffed up to your main character, that is pretty good. as soon as they reach cp 50, they will be buffed up to the main character, good , they would be able to share gear and play to gether as in pvp, so in pve content.

I think will eventually prove to be a bad thing for eso and will shorten the total amount of time players spend in ESO.

The lack of progression will lead to bored players.

Flocks of people left ESO the moment they hit V1. Why? Because the grind was atrocious, and they had thought they would be "Max Level".

With VR going away people can actually make new endgame characters AND play with them.

Believe me, the removal of Vet Ranks is a very good thing for ESO, whether or not you specifically like.

It will appear to immediately be a good thing @Doncellius , but it will be for the short term (in terms of MMO timelines). In the long term, we will see players who enjoy progression get bored and players who cried that they didn't like VR ranks start to complain about not wanting to level their characters 1-50 anymore.

I wouldn't be surprised of what @anitajoneb17_ESO mentioned is the direction this is going to go.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

IMO skill points and guild skill lines should also be unlocked account-wide, in order for the system to be consistent.

The progression went from 1-VR10 to 1 to CP501. It's much longer than when the game launched.

The biggest mistake they made for longevity was allowing you to go over the 501 cap. There will be nothing to work for for players that are at say 600 or so if they increase the cap. They hit the new cap instantly.

It's like WoW allowing people to pre level for an expansion, so they are the new max level as soon as its out. It would never happen because it's dumb.

WOW didn't realize so many people had every Achievement in the game and the only thing that gave people something to do was Veteran Ranks.

ADarklore wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

altemriel wrote: »

but the best thing that she is saying, that the level progression is going to be connected to your account, not character, so all your alts will be buffed up to your main character, that is pretty good. as soon as they reach cp 50, they will be buffed up to the main character, good , they would be able to share gear and play to gether as in pvp, so in pve content.

I think will eventually prove to be a bad thing for eso and will shorten the total amount of time players spend in ESO.

The lack of progression will lead to bored players.

They are bored anyway, this run to end game is just weird IMO - ESO is not the kind of game made to reach end game in a hurry, but the way to it is the content. Once you are on top, you can enjoy the other alliance areas and do some pvp, but if that is boring you - well, then it is time to leave - end game is end of game in ESO - it is not the normal type of MMO, where you rush to an endgame and the rest of the game is just to level up - this "rest" is the actual content, which will be expanded over the years to come. Maybe with one or the other group content for end level players, but this is not the main thing of ESO.

Edit: you are mistaken, when you expect a gaming company to use months and months of development to create content for those, who burn through it in just days and are bored after a week or two with it. They would be silly, to create stuff for this group, because they are an annoyance and will not be their main income source (they were, but they will not be) and on top of it poison the community with their permanent complains.

It's funny because this happens in almost EVERY MMO. Players will jump on a new DLC, run it non-stop for a week or two, then complain that they 'have nothing to do'. Yet, a DLC isn't meant to be played non-stop, there is only so much content a DLC can provide, and if a player chooses to play it non-stop, that is THEIR problem, not the developers. People complain about repetitious 'daily' quests, etc., but that is the only way they can keep the DLC relevant after people finish the main storyline. What other type of content can they add that would require three months to finish, until the next DLC? Even then, players would burn through it in a month and then back to complaining.

I am enjoying myself in ESO currently but just wanted to chime in on some stuff.An account wide system is normally good for a game:

* Built around alts, which to say is a game that makes you create different characters to experience one of 8-40 job classes.
* A game that has lots of Rites of Passages per character(trial unlocks to earn mounts, race specific gear, class specific gear, break level cap,unique trials for questing for skills and traits, quests for unlocking new jobs,etc).
* Personal story per character and not a global shared story line.

Here in ESO up to level 50, I think there is not as much grind as people think. We have 4 starting classes, 3 nation story, we can experience different builds by equipping different gear, skill selection, and morphs.The most reason we have to rolls alts is to roleplay, look different, play with a few race passive differences as far as I can tell.

I can't say lack of progression will leave me bored before that happens. But I could see myself being bored if the journey was my main sense of enjoyment, account wide CP with no VR might take that away from me because I no longer have the option from the larger pool to make 3-4 characters more powerful through earning it in specific content on a specific class.

Content does not have to be lean and fast. Content does not have to be done in two weeks or three months. That is just the way it is built on most modern mmos. So I just enjoy games for what they are currently, unsub when I get bored, and re-sub if I get the urge to try out new content.

I don't think it's funny. DLC or expansions can be played non-stop If it was designed that way.If you design your content to be played through in one or two weeks then if people leave because there is nothing to do. I think that was by design? That type of game is built for players who play a bunch of different games then come back when something good comes out, rinse and repeat. That doesn't make an mmo company the devil, they are just catering to an audience they want and it is not inherently worse than the other option.

I enjoy the modern mmos(GW2,ESO,FFXIV) as well as the old school mmos(EQ,FFXI,DAOC). In older mmos it took me about a month or two get a max level character, but took some people with less time up to a whole year. I was experiencing joy the whole time being challenged in progressing my character going through emotions of profound giddiness and utter anger. There was this one DLC called Chains Of Promathia, it was level synced and know for being punishing. This DLC granted access to new endgame content/awesome ring and had a tiny completion rate. I managed to serge the content no matter how pissed off I got at times but when completion came, I felt an immense feeling of progression. I know a few people who never got passed the DLC until it was nerfed years later. So I get why mmos are moving away from that.

I know content can be developed that last much longer than a few months because I have experienced it as a hardcore and a casual. I doubt most players would be into seeing stuff like that in ESO.

http://ffxiclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Abyssea

Gidorick wrote: »

altemriel wrote: »

but the best thing that she is saying, that the level progression is going to be connected to your account, not character, so all your alts will be buffed up to your main character, that is pretty good. as soon as they reach cp 50, they will be buffed up to the main character, good , they would be able to share gear and play to gether as in pvp, so in pve content.

I think will eventually prove to be a bad thing for eso and will shorten the total amount of time players spend in ESO.

The lack of progression will lead to bored players.

In my case, at least, I would never get bored from leveling fast - it's more boring to level slowly, because I'm waiting so long to start playing the fun part of the game. ESO players are not a homogenous group at all - people like the game for different reasons and enjoy totally different activities.

There are the completionists who derive a lot of enjoyment from doing every quest in the game, in a linear order at a pace where your level matches the mobs, then move to next zone, etc. There are others for whom the most fun part of the game is buying and selling on guild traders and amassing large hoards of gold.

There are also many for whom the entire leveling process, from start to V16 is like a tiresome prelude for when you can actually start playing the "real game," whether that means endgame PVP, veteran dungeons or trials, etc. There are even quite a few ESO players for whom the entire game is Blackwater Blade non-veteran PVP - make a character, grind it up to 20 or 30, hop in Cyrodiil and then delete the character at V1 since it can no longer enter the campaign.

Also, the way people play the game changes over time. Usually after people have leveled a couple characters to V16, they would prefer it were faster for their third, fourth or fifth characters.

I've been playing ESO for about 3 years. During the beta, I did some quests and exploration, but on the live server since launch, I've leveled characters exclusively either in Cyrodiil or grinding. I have consistently tried to avoid quests and PVE as much as possible, only going back for skyshards and skill points after I reach V16.

When I started, I approached ESO the same way I played Skyrim, just wandering around the world exploring, and had no interest in leveling fast, or even any plans to ever reach max level. In single player TES games, I would usually retire a character whenever the game got to be too easy at around level 30 or so and simply start over with a different play style. During the entire several months of beta, I don't think I even saved up enough gold to buy a horse - only got a horse toward the end when they gave everyone a free Imperial horse for testing purposes.

At some point, they asked everyone to go to Cyrodiil so they could record a large battle for a trailer video. I was blown away by how much fun it was. It was more of a sandbox environment, where anything can happen. You could be doing a quest and find enemy players inside a little house, for example. Even though I had absolutely no idea what I was doing, I still managed to kill a couple players with siege.

After that, I wanted to improve, to be a little more competitive in PVP. Started to learn more about the complex math behind the game, and discovered it is also a lot of fun just comparing all the sets and figuring out an interesting build. My focus completely changed and from that point, I was primarily interested in the Alliance War side of the game.

Leveling in PVP at launch was excruciatingly slow. It took 8 months to level two characters from 10 up to mid veteran ranks this way. After that I realized how much faster grinding is, and now that's the only way I would consider leveling any character. Grinding is the fastest way to level, but it's still too slow for me, especially when you reach the veteran ranks. As a result, I ended up with 6 characters ranging from V1 to V10 and just gave up on them.

Now I'm eagerly awaiting the DB patch, so I can finally start playing all these characters (and equip all the V16 gear sitting in my bank).

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

So other than the few CP's most aren't making us stronger overall like VR level did. Gain level and base stats go up and u get a stat point to add vs passive increases on a diminishing return.
.

But the 15 skill pts and/or atts from vr2-16 are either being rolled into lvls 4-50 or given in 10cp achievements, have seen both referenced. So the power gian is either there or will be gained by gaining cp.

Typhoios wrote: »

Enraged_Tiki_Torch wrote: »

WOW didn't realize so many people had every Achievement in the game and the only thing that gave people something to do was Veteran Ranks.

If the achievements actually had a purpose your comment might make sense. Collecting worthless achievement points isn't progression.

Ahh Dyes, Titles, and Bragging Rights. Don't think of them as Achievement Points, think of them as "I was able to complete VMA without dying", or "I was able to get Grand Overlord", or "I completed Veteran VMoL". This is progression in an MMO cause nobody gives a crap about your worthless Veteran Rank.

If it's the level process you care so much about, the Champion Point system is 100x more of a grind than Veteran Ranks.

So unless you have 501+ CP and done everything in the game, you still have something to progress towards.

Lysette wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Doncellius wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

altemriel wrote: »

but the best thing that she is saying, that the level progression is going to be connected to your account, not character, so all your alts will be buffed up to your main character, that is pretty good. as soon as they reach cp 50, they will be buffed up to the main character, good , they would be able to share gear and play to gether as in pvp, so in pve content.

I think will eventually prove to be a bad thing for eso and will shorten the total amount of time players spend in ESO.

The lack of progression will lead to bored players.

Flocks of people left ESO the moment they hit V1. Why? Because the grind was atrocious, and they had thought they would be "Max Level".

With VR going away people can actually make new endgame characters AND play with them.

Believe me, the removal of Vet Ranks is a very good thing for ESO, whether or not you specifically like.

It will appear to immediately be a good thing @Doncellius , but it will be for the short term (in terms of MMO timelines). In the long term, we will see players who enjoy progression get bored and players who cried that they didn't like VR ranks start to complain about not wanting to level their characters 1-50 anymore.

I wouldn't be surprised of what @anitajoneb17_ESO mentioned is the direction this is going to go.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

IMO skill points and guild skill lines should also be unlocked account-wide, in order for the system to be consistent.

Now this would be bad, really bad - why would I even want to replay the content, when I will have all from the very beginning. There is no point in doing this. There is no individuality left for a character, other than his/her looks. To make morale decisions comes often with disadvantages in regards to personal gain. Nevertheless a moral person will make these decisions. This might come even at the price of missing out on skill points in refused quests. I do not want my characters to be all the same - they have their individual story and they decide differently from each other, what they do and what they don't and live with the consequences of their decisions. From a role play perspective I am against to homogenize this even more.

I'm with you 100% @Lysette. I hate what we already have shared between characters. It makes no sense in the context of my character.

Typhoios wrote: »

Enraged_Tiki_Torch wrote: »

Typhoios wrote: »

Enraged_Tiki_Torch wrote: »

WOW didn't realize so many people had every Achievement in the game and the only thing that gave people something to do was Veteran Ranks.

If the achievements actually had a purpose your comment might make sense. Collecting worthless achievement points isn't progression.

Ahh Dyes, Titles, and Bragging Rights. Don't think of them as Achievement Points, think of them as "I was able to complete VMA without dying", or "I was able to get Grand Overlord", or "I completed Veteran VMoL". This is progression in an MMO cause nobody gives a crap about your worthless Veteran Rank.

If it's the level process you care so much about, the Champion Point system is 100x more of a grind than Veteran Ranks.

So unless you have 501+ CP and done everything in the game, you still have something to progress towards.

I never thought anyone cared about my veteren rank, so I'm not really sure where that came from. I don't need bragging rights. I just want to be able to constantly improve my character. I can't though, because ZOS won't raise the cp cap. I know I still have stuff to accomplish in the game, but none of it is going to progress my characters. Their stats and skills are going to be very much the same. People can complain about there not being progression without having unlocked every possible achievement in the game. Achievements, by the way, that add no numerical value to your character.

Let's say there were no CP system at all. When you level all your characters to highest veteran rank, then what would you do, stop playing at that point?

For some of us, the game is just getting started when we reach max level.