interresting: Elloa on removal of the veteran ranks :)

altemriel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXfaNYSe5WU

phaneub17_ESO

But they're not going away, they're just being renamed into a new convoluted system that also happens to raise the base cost of everything across the board by 16% and nerfing your future 50+ characters when they start Cadwell Silver.

STEVIL

I think she has the right of it.

altemriel

but the best thing that she is saying, that the level progression is going to be connected to your account, not character, so all your alts will be buffed up to your main character, that is pretty good. as soon as they reach cp 50, they will be buffed up to the main character, good , they would be able to share gear and play to gether as in pvp, so in pve content.

NewBlacksmurf

altemriel wrote: »

but the best thing that she is saying, that the level progression is going to be connected to your account, not character, so all your alts will be buffed up to your main character, that is pretty good. as soon as they reach cp 50, they will be buffed up to the main character, good , they would be able to share gear and play to gether as in pvp, so in pve content.

The thing is CP isn't making your stronger. I fear that so many are confusing "stronger" with effective. CP's make you effective.

Stat and skill points as well as skill ranks and unlocks to morphs make you stronger. Doing more skills quests can make you stronger. CP...if I put 100 point in key Passives, I becomes focused or more effective but not stronger.

I can use CP to do more %of damage or Frits and stuff but that's like going from green or blue gear to yellow.
Stronger and better is when my stats increase so that my magic, health and stamina increase. If I'm still able to be 1-shot or cast an effect that drains my magica and I only have X amount.....regardless of how much more effective I am, I still fail.

So other than the few CP's most aren't making us stronger overall like VR level did. Gain level and base stats go up and u get a stat point to add vs passive increases on a diminishing return.

Not saying it's bad but I'm saying using Cp to defermine if you're progressing is going to end up being worse than VR cause you can't scale ppl based on Cp. you can't determine if someone can do content based on the number of CPs.

Maybe it's why the cap hasn't changed cause someone with ZOS realizes they have a mess and didn't remove the VRs which needs to happen before trying to move progression to any other system.

Lenikus

Didn't watch, but she liked it soo.... yay?
anyway, way to get her to notice ya, bro.

Vaoh

No Vet Ranks = No more mind-numbingly boring grind = more time having fun in ESO

Vet Ranks being removed is really, really good.

Tandor

I'm not sure on this. I'm going to sit back and wait for PvPers to complain that a level 50 alt with inherited CPs isn't a fair fight with a level 50 main with earned CPs because of the lack of the extra skill points and base stat increases as mentioned above, and those complaints will come in sure enough once dueling is in place (if not before). Of course PvPers can do all the extra content with their alts but I'm guessing that most won't.

Meanwhile, for PvEers the question of whether you like account-wide CPs is entirely dependent on whether you roll alts in order to level through the game or just for the endgame. I'm certainly in the former category and as such I want all my characters to do everything for themselves so I hate the account-wide sharing of CPs.

Essentially, as is so often the case in MMOs today, the move is designed for those who like shortcuts to the endgame but in this particular case I'm not convinced that it will end up being quite so popular as those welcoming it imagine it will be.

CaptainBeerDude

Tandor wrote: »

I'm not sure on this. I'm going to sit back and wait for PvPers to complain that a level 50 alt with inherited CPs isn't a fair fight with a level 50 main with earned CPs because of the lack of the extra skill points and base stat increases as mentioned above, and those complaints will come in sure enough once dueling is in place (if not before). Of course PvPers can do all the extra content with their alts but I'm guessing that most won't.

Meanwhile, for PvEers the question of whether you like account-wide CPs is entirely dependent on whether you roll alts in order to level through the game or just for the endgame. I'm certainly in the former category and as such I want all my characters to do everything for themselves so I hate the account-wide sharing of CPs.

Essentially, as is so often the case in MMOs today, the move is designed for those who like shortcuts to the endgame but in this particular case I'm not convinced that it will end up being quite so popular as those welcoming it imagine it will be.

Stop saying these things. It hurts me deeply. I would rather be able to endgame faster. Account wide CP's are awesome. So are alts. I wouldn't even have one, and would probably have stopped playing, if I couldn't share them between toons. Imagine the grind of trying to get them to a competitive level on 8+ toons

Panth141

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

altemriel wrote: »

but the best thing that she is saying, that the level progression is going to be connected to your account, not character, so all your alts will be buffed up to your main character, that is pretty good. as soon as they reach cp 50, they will be buffed up to the main character, good , they would be able to share gear and play to gether as in pvp, so in pve content.

The thing is CP isn't making your stronger. I fear that so many are confusing "stronger" with effective. CP's make you effective.

Stat and skill points as well as skill ranks and unlocks to morphs make you stronger. Doing more skills quests can make you stronger. CP...if I put 100 point in key Passives, I becomes focused or more effective but not stronger.

I can use CP to do more %of damage or Frits and stuff but that's like going from green or blue gear to yellow.
Stronger and better is when my stats increase so that my magic, health and stamina increase. If I'm still able to be 1-shot or cast an effect that drains my magica and I only have X amount.....regardless of how much more effective I am, I still fail.

So other than the few CP's most aren't making us stronger overall like VR level did. Gain level and base stats go up and u get a stat point to add vs passive increases on a diminishing return.

Not saying it's bad but I'm saying using Cp to defermine if you're progressing is going to end up being worse than VR cause you can't scale ppl based on Cp. you can't determine if someone can do content based on the number of CPs.

Maybe it's why the cap hasn't changed cause someone with ZOS realizes they have a mess and didn't remove the VRs which needs to happen before trying to move progression to any other system.

Don't forget that when you hit 50 you'll have the same number of attribute/skill points that you would've had for reaching vr16.

Also remember that each CP in one of the three sets of constellations boosts the respective stat - you say that vet ranks made us more powerful because we had higher stats - with removal you will have the same number of attribute points and the same contributions to your stats from CP allocation.

Buffler

Why people think they are losing attribute points is beyond me. How many times must it be said that the 64 points will now be spread out over levels 1-50 instead of 1-vr16

KanedaSyndrome

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

altemriel wrote: »

but the best thing that she is saying, that the level progression is going to be connected to your account, not character, so all your alts will be buffed up to your main character, that is pretty good. as soon as they reach cp 50, they will be buffed up to the main character, good , they would be able to share gear and play to gether as in pvp, so in pve content.

The thing is CP isn't making your stronger. I fear that so many are confusing "stronger" with effective. CP's make you effective.

What are you on about? You don't get stronger by getting a 10% increase to all your damage?

Gidorick

altemriel wrote: »

but the best thing that she is saying, that the level progression is going to be connected to your account, not character, so all your alts will be buffed up to your main character, that is pretty good. as soon as they reach cp 50, they will be buffed up to the main character, good , they would be able to share gear and play to gether as in pvp, so in pve content.

I think will eventually prove to be a bad thing for eso and will shorten the total amount of time players spend in ESO.

The lack of progression will lead to bored players.

Lysette

Gidorick wrote: »

altemriel wrote: »

but the best thing that she is saying, that the level progression is going to be connected to your account, not character, so all your alts will be buffed up to your main character, that is pretty good. as soon as they reach cp 50, they will be buffed up to the main character, good , they would be able to share gear and play to gether as in pvp, so in pve content.

I think will eventually prove to be a bad thing for eso and will shorten the total amount of time players spend in ESO.

The lack of progression will lead to bored players.

They are bored anyway, this run to end game is just weird IMO - ESO is not the kind of game made to reach end game in a hurry, but the way to it is the content. Once you are on top, you can enjoy the other alliance areas and do some pvp, but if that is boring you - well, then it is time to leave - end game is end of game in ESO - it is not the normal type of MMO, where you rush to an endgame and the rest of the game is just to level up - this "rest" is the actual content, which will be expanded over the years to come. Maybe with one or the other group content for end level players, but this is not the main thing of ESO.

Edit: you are mistaken, when you expect a gaming company to use months and months of development to create content for those, who burn through it in just days and are bored after a week or two with it. They would be silly, to create stuff for this group, because they are an annoyance and will not be their main income source (they were, but they will not be) and on top of it poison the community with their permanent complains.

Necrelios

For what it's worth, you don't loose any base stats or skill points when VR's are removed and each CP you invest into each tree does in fact raise your health, magicka or stamina. I don't know where this misinformation from some of these posts originated from. You still get 16 skill points, and the raises to your base stats as well. So yes, CP's do make you stronger (and more effective BTW ).

AnnieBeGood

I have found that lvl1 - 50 seems to allow you to level weapons and gain a bit of experience with your character and how it plays and then once you hit vet 1 you really start to be able to make it work.... vet 8 to 12 is somehow the doldrums and then finally your hopefully fully developed character arrives with vet 16.
I have 501++ cp's.... this does not mean I am a good player, I am not, but freely translated means I play a lot. So calling my lvl 50 a cp160 is meaningless. Because I am not really.

Glamdring

Hope my parked v1 alts will also get the skillpoints from v1-v16 as DB releases. So i can just max equip them and distribute my 501 cps and get into PvP action immidiately.

Necrelios

Glamdring wrote: »

Hope my parked v1 alts will also get the skillpoints from v1-v16 as DB releases. So i can just max equip them and distribute my 501 cps and get into PvP action immidiately.

That is in fact how it works.

ADarklore

Lysette wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

altemriel wrote: »

but the best thing that she is saying, that the level progression is going to be connected to your account, not character, so all your alts will be buffed up to your main character, that is pretty good. as soon as they reach cp 50, they will be buffed up to the main character, good , they would be able to share gear and play to gether as in pvp, so in pve content.

I think will eventually prove to be a bad thing for eso and will shorten the total amount of time players spend in ESO.

The lack of progression will lead to bored players.

They are bored anyway, this run to end game is just weird IMO - ESO is not the kind of game made to reach end game in a hurry, but the way to it is the content. Once you are on top, you can enjoy the other alliance areas and do some pvp, but if that is boring you - well, then it is time to leave - end game is end of game in ESO - it is not the normal type of MMO, where you rush to an endgame and the rest of the game is just to level up - this "rest" is the actual content, which will be expanded over the years to come. Maybe with one or the other group content for end level players, but this is not the main thing of ESO.

Edit: you are mistaken, when you expect a gaming company to use months and months of development to create content for those, who burn through it in just days and are bored after a week or two with it. They would be silly, to create stuff for this group, because they are an annoyance and will not be their main income source (they were, but they will not be) and on top of it poison the community with their permanent complains.

It's funny because this happens in almost EVERY MMO. Players will jump on a new DLC, run it non-stop for a week or two, then complain that they 'have nothing to do'. Yet, a DLC isn't meant to be played non-stop, there is only so much content a DLC can provide, and if a player chooses to play it non-stop, that is THEIR problem, not the developers. People complain about repetitious 'daily' quests, etc., but that is the only way they can keep the DLC relevant after people finish the main storyline. What other type of content can they add that would require three months to finish, until the next DLC? Even then, players would burn through it in a month and then back to complaining.

Guppet

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

altemriel wrote: »

but the best thing that she is saying, that the level progression is going to be connected to your account, not character, so all your alts will be buffed up to your main character, that is pretty good. as soon as they reach cp 50, they will be buffed up to the main character, good , they would be able to share gear and play to gether as in pvp, so in pve content.

The thing is CP isn't making your stronger. I fear that so many are confusing "stronger" with effective. CP's make you effective.

Stat and skill points as well as skill ranks and unlocks to morphs make you stronger. Doing more skills quests can make you stronger. CP...if I put 100 point in key Passives, I becomes focused or more effective but not stronger.

I can use CP to do more %of damage or Frits and stuff but that's like going from green or blue gear to yellow.
Stronger and better is when my stats increase so that my magic, health and stamina increase. If I'm still able to be 1-shot or cast an effect that drains my magica and I only have X amount.....regardless of how much more effective I am, I still fail.

So other than the few CP's most aren't making us stronger overall like VR level did. Gain level and base stats go up and u get a stat point to add vs passive increases on a diminishing return.

Not saying it's bad but I'm saying using Cp to defermine if you're progressing is going to end up being worse than VR cause you can't scale ppl based on Cp. you can't determine if someone can do content based on the number of CPs.

Maybe it's why the cap hasn't changed cause someone with ZOS realizes they have a mess and didn't remove the VRs which needs to happen before trying to move progression to any other system.

Utter rubbish. If I do 25% more physical damage than a player with no CP. I take 25% less physical damage than a player with no cp. I regen stamina 25% quicker than a player with no cp. you think I'm not more powerful? They will probably disagree if I go up against them in PVP.

That's not even factoring what those 300 cp do to my base stats. People keep forgetting that each cp adds a bit of stam, Magica, or health.

Those increases very much increase my power.

Lysette

ADarklore wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

altemriel wrote: »

but the best thing that she is saying, that the level progression is going to be connected to your account, not character, so all your alts will be buffed up to your main character, that is pretty good. as soon as they reach cp 50, they will be buffed up to the main character, good , they would be able to share gear and play to gether as in pvp, so in pve content.

I think will eventually prove to be a bad thing for eso and will shorten the total amount of time players spend in ESO.

The lack of progression will lead to bored players.

They are bored anyway, this run to end game is just weird IMO - ESO is not the kind of game made to reach end game in a hurry, but the way to it is the content. Once you are on top, you can enjoy the other alliance areas and do some pvp, but if that is boring you - well, then it is time to leave - end game is end of game in ESO - it is not the normal type of MMO, where you rush to an endgame and the rest of the game is just to level up - this "rest" is the actual content, which will be expanded over the years to come. Maybe with one or the other group content for end level players, but this is not the main thing of ESO.

Edit: you are mistaken, when you expect a gaming company to use months and months of development to create content for those, who burn through it in just days and are bored after a week or two with it. They would be silly, to create stuff for this group, because they are an annoyance and will not be their main income source (they were, but they will not be) and on top of it poison the community with their permanent complains.

It's funny because this happens in almost EVERY MMO. Players will jump on a new DLC, run it non-stop for a week or two, then complain that they 'have nothing to do'. Yet, a DLC isn't meant to be played non-stop, there is only so much content a DLC can provide, and if a player chooses to play it non-stop, that is THEIR problem, not the developers. People complain about repetitious 'daily' quests, etc., but that is the only way they can keep the DLC relevant after people finish the main storyline. What other type of content can they add that would require three months to finish, until the next DLC? Even then, players would burn through it in a month and then back to complaining.

indeed, but they are not the majority. The vast majority are players, who's life is not gaming, but their career, their family, their children, and other real life activities. There will be wife or husband aggro incoming, if gaming exceeds 40 hours per month. For them the content will never run out in ESO - they might not even be able to complete the main quest line, before other RL things are coming up and they have to stop playing. I am just since about half a year in ESO and it happened already to 2 of my friends in ESO - their career evolved into another state and there is rarely any time for them to play now, even less than it was before. They login from time to time, but they will not progress like before - and this will happen to a lot of players, who start the game but will never get any far in it. This is just how a normal life is - education, career, marriage, family.

Jennifur_Vultee

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

But they're not going away, they're just being renamed into a new convoluted system that also happens to raise the base cost of everything across the board by 16% and nerfing your future 50+ characters when they start Cadwell Silver.

I'm glad I'm not the only one to see this. When I try to point it out people say I'm just being negative but as I see it Zenimax has done nothing to change things but is instead playing the old shell game with names to pacify people.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Necrelios wrote: »

Glamdring wrote: »

Hope my parked v1 alts will also get the skillpoints from v1-v16 as DB releases. So i can just max equip them and distribute my 501 cps and get into PvP action immidiately.

That is in fact how it works.

With the difference that for full access to undaunted, mages guild, fighters guild skills and passives you'll still have to collect books, slay daedras, destroy dark anchors and run daily pledges. You'll also probably need a few more skill points and do a bit of skyshard hunting in silver, gold and DLC zones.
VR removal does not negate ALL grinding.

Lysette

Jennifur_Vultee wrote: »

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

But they're not going away, they're just being renamed into a new convoluted system that also happens to raise the base cost of everything across the board by 16% and nerfing your future 50+ characters when they start Cadwell Silver.

I'm glad I'm not the only one to see this. When I try to point it out people say I'm just being negative but as I see it Zenimax has done nothing to change things but is instead playing the old shell game with names to pacify people.

The real problem comes for people who have 501 CP already and are into PvE only - there is no further progress to be made for them, they will have to start new characters and that will as well not last them long, because once those reach level 50, they are as well without any further progress. So if they are not interested into PvP, they are basically done.

Abeille

Jennifur_Vultee wrote: »

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

But they're not going away, they're just being renamed into a new convoluted system that also happens to raise the base cost of everything across the board by 16% and nerfing your future 50+ characters when they start Cadwell Silver.

I'm glad I'm not the only one to see this. When I try to point it out people say I'm just being negative but as I see it Zenimax has done nothing to change things but is instead playing the old shell game with names to pacify people.

There are a few differences that you two are not mentioning when saying they are the same. First, Champion Rank is account wide, while Veteran Rank is character-specific. That makes no difference if you only have one character, alright, but when you have eight and already did every quest in the game multiple times, it actually makes a big difference. Another thing is that you can surpass the gear cap before the cap is even raised, and on all of your characters at once.

They are not the same. Champion Ranks are more convenient for people with alts that hate grinding and the quests on their gold and/or silver alliances too much to do them more than once.

I can understand people wanting to keep their characters' progresses separated, I really do, and I am sure not everyone will welcome this change. But the new and the old system are not the same at all.

Jennifur_Vultee

Abeille wrote: »

Jennifur_Vultee wrote: »

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

But they're not going away, they're just being renamed into a new convoluted system that also happens to raise the base cost of everything across the board by 16% and nerfing your future 50+ characters when they start Cadwell Silver.

I'm glad I'm not the only one to see this. When I try to point it out people say I'm just being negative but as I see it Zenimax has done nothing to change things but is instead playing the old shell game with names to pacify people.

There are a few differences that you two are not mentioning when saying they are the same. First, Champion Rank is account wide, while Veteran Rank is character-specific. That makes no difference if you only have one character, alright, but when you have eight and already did every quest in the game multiple times, it actually makes a big difference. Another thing is that you can surpass the gear cap before the cap is even raised, and on all of your characters at once.

They are not the same. Champion Ranks are more convenient for people with alts that hate grinding and the quests on their gold and/or silver alliances too much to do them more than once.

I can understand people wanting to keep their characters' progresses separated, I really do, and I am sure not everyone will welcome this change. But the new and the old system are not the same at all.

Based on my experience on the PTS with my characters Level 27, Level 31x2, VR4, VR7, VR8, VR16x2 the only change is...I can now equip Level 50 Champion 160 armor. So yeah I actually do have more than one character. I'd still have to play the content or grind for attribute points and skill points at level 50 just like VR or play as a gimped VR16...sorry CP Rank 160. Zenimax does like tacking on those zeroes to make things feel bigger and more epic. So splain it to me...what else changes besides now needing to make or acquire Level 50 Champion 160 gear for my alts? I currently have 467 CP.

Abeille

Jennifur_Vultee wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Jennifur_Vultee wrote: »

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

But they're not going away, they're just being renamed into a new convoluted system that also happens to raise the base cost of everything across the board by 16% and nerfing your future 50+ characters when they start Cadwell Silver.

I'm glad I'm not the only one to see this. When I try to point it out people say I'm just being negative but as I see it Zenimax has done nothing to change things but is instead playing the old shell game with names to pacify people.

There are a few differences that you two are not mentioning when saying they are the same. First, Champion Rank is account wide, while Veteran Rank is character-specific. That makes no difference if you only have one character, alright, but when you have eight and already did every quest in the game multiple times, it actually makes a big difference. Another thing is that you can surpass the gear cap before the cap is even raised, and on all of your characters at once.

They are not the same. Champion Ranks are more convenient for people with alts that hate grinding and the quests on their gold and/or silver alliances too much to do them more than once.

I can understand people wanting to keep their characters' progresses separated, I really do, and I am sure not everyone will welcome this change. But the new and the old system are not the same at all.

Based on my experience on the PTS with my characters Level 27, Level 31x2, VR 4, VR 7, VR8, VR16x2 the only change is...I can now equip VR16 armor. So yeah I actually do have more than one character. I'd still gave to play the content or grind for attribute points and skill points at level 50 just like VR or play as a gimped VR16...sorry CP Rank 160. Zenimax does like tacking on those zeroes to make things feel bigger and more epic. So splain it to me...what else changes besides now needing to make or acquire Level 50 Champion 160 gear for my alts? I currently have 467 CP.

You don't have to grind the attribute points after 50: You will receive them on the 1-50 route. There is currently a bug on PTS, you have to respec to see this change on low vets. Same for the skill points gained for leveling from VR1 to VR16.

Necrelios

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

With the difference that for full access to undaunted, mages guild, fighters guild skills and passives you'll still have to collect books, slay daedras, destroy dark anchors and run daily pledges. You'll also probably need a few more skill points and do a bit of skyshard hunting in silver, gold and DLC zones.
VR removal does not negate ALL grinding.

Yes, well that part is obvious I should think. The quote you mentioned was specifically in regards to the 16 points you get from v1-v16. Those you get as you level up and will have all 16 of those points once you hit level 50 with the new system in place. I was referring to the part in bold which I was trying to dispel some confusion about:

Glamdring wrote: »

Hope my parked v1 alts will also get the skillpoints from v1-v16 as DB releases. So i can just max equip them and distribute my 501 cps and get into PvP action immidiately.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Necrelios wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

With the difference that for full access to undaunted, mages guild, fighters guild skills and passives you'll still have to collect books, slay daedras, destroy dark anchors and run daily pledges. You'll also probably need a few more skill points and do a bit of skyshard hunting in silver, gold and DLC zones.
VR removal does not negate ALL grinding.

Yes, well that part is obvious I should think. The quote you mentioned was specifically in regards to the 16 points you get from v1-v16. Those you get as you level up and will have all 16 of those points once you hit level 50 with the new system in place. I was referring to the part in bold which I was trying to dispel some confusion about:

Glamdring wrote: »

Hope my parked v1 alts will also get the skillpoints from v1-v16 as DB releases. So i can just max equip them and distribute my 501 cps and get into PvP action immidiately.

Given how this very simple scheme is subject to so many questions and debates, I just assume that nothing is obvious to everyone ;-)
That said, you're right, I quoted wrongly. What I actually wanted to address is that sentence you also quoted :

"i can just max equip them and distribute my 501 cps and get into PvP action immidiately. "

That is not entirely true if you want all skills ready for full PvP power you'll still have quite a bit of PvE grind to do. Not half as much as with VR though.

Abeille

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

That is not entirely true if you want all skills ready for full PvP power you'll still have quite a bit of PvE grind to do. Not half as much as with VR though.

I think this is a good thing. It severely reduces the need to grind, but it doesn't completely eliminates individual character progression.

Averya_Teira

Tandor wrote: »

I'm not sure on this. I'm going to sit back and wait for PvPers to complain that a level 50 alt with inherited CPs isn't a fair fight with a level 50 main with earned CPs because of the lack of the extra skill points and base stat increases as mentioned above, and those complaints will come in sure enough once dueling is in place (if not before). Of course PvPers can do all the extra content with their alts but I'm guessing that most won't.

Meanwhile, for PvEers the question of whether you like account-wide CPs is entirely dependent on whether you roll alts in order to level through the game or just for the endgame. I'm certainly in the former category and as such I want all my characters to do everything for themselves so I hate the account-wide sharing of CPs.

Essentially, as is so often the case in MMOs today, the move is designed for those who like shortcuts to the endgame but in this particular case I'm not convinced that it will end up being quite so popular as those welcoming it imagine it will be.

But.... You can still do everything on your alts like before... Oh no, there won't be a small number next to each of your characters...

There is literally NO downside from your perspective...