ZOS: Yes. Vampires. Again.

ParaNostram · April 2016

Thevampirenight wrote: »

I do think there should be a few blood lines of vampire with differant looks and traits maybe a few that we can become. But I guess they don't want to add to much coding for that so we just get to become one bloodline of vampire.

They don't even want to do enough coding to give us one complete skill line for vampirism!

TX12001rwb17_ESO · April 2016

Seriously if ZoS cant do vampires properly then they might as well just make it so they don't give any passives or weakness's and the change is just visual or just make it so the player can't become one.

Don't know why I had my hopes up.

ShadowHvo · April 2016

ParaNostram wrote: »

I know there's differences in vampirism but ZOS and Bethesda sure don't give a *** anymore, why should I? Taking the Cyrodillic vampires and making their traits the default of vampires everywhere. Volkihaar vampires were established in lore before Oblivion, even, yet look at what they became. Knockoff Cyrodiil vampires. Following the precedent they set. ZOS implemented the same problem, making this brand of vampirism the only brand everywhere and it's a problem. So diversity is out, vampirism has become a monoculture thanks to people not wanting so harsh of downsides.

They took a step in the right direction. Like I said earlier, though of course I don't have the arrogance to straight up quote myself like you do, they put a bandage over the bullet wound. Cool, stopped the bleeding, but could they remove the bullet too? It's incomplete, doesn't fit with ESO's style, and it's following the precedent that Oblivion set that, IMHO, ruined some of the best parts of vampirism. The incomplete skill line would be forgivable if only they would go so far as to, oh idk, make the skills they gave us actually worth slotting?

Your whole argument is "hurr durr you don't know vampires!" I do, I've been playing these games for years and can almost quote word for word entire lorebooks on the subject. How about we at least have the level of respect of not just telling the other person that they know nothing?

Here's how it's incomplete, lets use basic math shall we? Other skill lines, 5 actives maybe 1 ultimate. So, 5-6. Vampires? 2 actives, 1 ultimate, so 3. Tell me, does 3 = 5? Does 3 = 6? No? Well slap my rear and call me a guar, don't seem complete now ain't it?

Alright lets tango.

Since we have 4 world skill-lines:

Legerdemain: 0 abilities, 5 passives
Soul Magic: 2 abilities, 3 passives.
Vampire: 3 abilities, 6 passives.
Werewolf: 6 abilities, 6 passives.

Here we have the werewolf in the winner.. But oh wait, the werewolf's 5 abilities only gets activated while in a short werewolf ultimate ability form? Hmm.

You claim it is basic math, but it is far from. It is not math. It is a headcanon from which you've set, not ZoS, that now claims that the skill-line is incomplete. It is a claim you've made, and blatantly, it is a false claim unless Zenimax swoops in to say that the skill-line is indeed incomplete.

As I said earlier as well, would I mind more abilities? No. But I won't just sit by and watch while you blatantly slander lies about a video game that many of us feel passionate about, again, just because it does not fit your perfect ideal vampirism bloodline. Just because you feel that ZoS or Bethesda doesn't care about vampirism, doesn't entitle you to come and choose whenever something is incomplete or not, when you have absolutely no say in the matter.

Give suggestion to ZoS instead, like as you yourself pointed out, many has done before. But go in, shame on them, spit on them and literally tell everyone else that they deliever incomplete products, when its infact just an assumption you make because you're unhappy with one specific element of the game, which is known to change from game to game, is just depressing. Hence why I'm taking this debate with you now.

TX12001rwb17_ESO · April 2016

ShadowHvo wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

[
We all know how it's worked in past games, some of us have played since Daggerfall. Now then, speaking of reading, you ought to go to the head of this thread and see the arguments for how, oh idk, the skill line isn't finished and how easy it could be to finish it? Just a thought.

Those are not arguments on how to "Fix" or "Complete" the skill-line, those are arguments, suggestions if you will, on how to furthermore 'possibly' improve it.

Claiming that the skill-line is unfinished, or otherwise incomplete, is blatant lying and false statements.

Would more active abilities be awesome? Yes. But is it sorrely needed to get the vampire experience in TES? No. Vampires has always been more about passives, rather than abilities. Hence why vampires typically uses all other spells as well, and not just their vampiric powers.

Since you've played since Daggerfall, I'm certain you're aware of that.

Dude, if you've been in any of Morna's threads before you should have read the argument for how vampirism is incomplete. Also, in past ESO games we've been able to do the Necromancy stuffs! Where is that here? Vampires have a natural affinity for Necromancy, where is that here? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..... Maybe we should, *gasp* add an active for it! We're also missing vampire sight, maybe that can be another knocking out of stealth active? My goodness, two abilities traditionally in TES games for vampires that can be implemented here! It's almost as if we don't have the full vampire experience, AKA IT ISN'T FINISHED!

But yeah, keep defending an unfinished product friendo. *head pats*

How can you even claim that you play since Daggerfall, and by such, make me assume you know how vampirism in TES is handled, when you clearly by this very post do not?

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Vampires
Notice how in Morrowind Vampirism was literally ONE, yes read clearly, ONE (1) active ability, the rest were passives.

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Vampirism
Now notice how in Oblivion, they introduced stages, which gave the vampire MORE POWERS the FURTHER they starved, and at thus, the less weaknesses they had when well-fed! In fact, they only have four abilities by stage 4.

Sense a pattern yet? No?

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Vampirism
Now notice how Skyrim shares the same mold! Few abilities to begin with, and yet more gets added the FURTHER you starve. With the grand total of FIVE at stage 4. Yet again, passives are the dominating factor, just like previous installments. Not only with that, Skyrim is also the first game to add Raise dead, or rather "Vampire's Servant" as an vampire ability.

Now keep in mind, that Morrowind had THREE different vampire bloodlines, while both Skyrim and Oblivion only had one. With TESO, we also only have a single vampire bloodline. All of these bloodlines have different abilities and different passive bonuses, all depending on their specific bloodline. HENCE, ZoS made their own bloodline, which now fits perfectly into the The Elder Scrolls vampirism mold. Its different, its distinctive and its cool. It doesn't have to be either Volkihar, Porphyric Hemophilia, Berne, Aundae or Quarra.. For it is Noxiphilic Sanguivoria, and not any of the others.

I'm telling you again, that you're flat out wrong in your malicious assumption. Not only is Elder Scrolls lore far deeper than you seem to believe. But you claim that its all about active abilities, when it clearly throughout the years of Elder Scrolls, has always been more about the passives WHEN it comes to vampirism. Those are the dominating factors of what makes the vampire a vampire, not their ability to reanimate the dead, charm the living or drain life, which mind you.. can be done with ordinary TES magic as well.

I'm sorry that this sounds so harsh, but man, you don't seem to even know TES vampirism.

Oh Do explain the Vampire Lord getting stronger by Feeding, that was more recent then the Stage vampires of Oblivion and Base Skyrim or better yet explain Lamae' Dialogue where she says that they will feed upon Arkya's Servants and use their stolen strength to conquer him, that does sound like Lorewise Vampires do get stronger from feeding yet game mechanics wise they made it the opposite to cater to noobs.

Either that or the reason you lose your power from feeding is because your character is so pitiful they don't even have the strength to stomach the blood so it makes them sick and instead has a reverse effect.

ParaNostram · April 2016

ShadowHvo wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

I know there's differences in vampirism but ZOS and Bethesda sure don't give a *** anymore, why should I? Taking the Cyrodillic vampires and making their traits the default of vampires everywhere. Volkihaar vampires were established in lore before Oblivion, even, yet look at what they became. Knockoff Cyrodiil vampires. Following the precedent they set. ZOS implemented the same problem, making this brand of vampirism the only brand everywhere and it's a problem. So diversity is out, vampirism has become a monoculture thanks to people not wanting so harsh of downsides.

They took a step in the right direction. Like I said earlier, though of course I don't have the arrogance to straight up quote myself like you do, they put a bandage over the bullet wound. Cool, stopped the bleeding, but could they remove the bullet too? It's incomplete, doesn't fit with ESO's style, and it's following the precedent that Oblivion set that, IMHO, ruined some of the best parts of vampirism. The incomplete skill line would be forgivable if only they would go so far as to, oh idk, make the skills they gave us actually worth slotting?

Your whole argument is "hurr durr you don't know vampires!" I do, I've been playing these games for years and can almost quote word for word entire lorebooks on the subject. How about we at least have the level of respect of not just telling the other person that they know nothing?

Here's how it's incomplete, lets use basic math shall we? Other skill lines, 5 actives maybe 1 ultimate. So, 5-6. Vampires? 2 actives, 1 ultimate, so 3. Tell me, does 3 = 5? Does 3 = 6? No? Well slap my rear and call me a guar, don't seem complete now ain't it?

Alright lets tango.

Since we have 4 world skill-lines:

Legerdemain: 0 abilities, 5 passives
Soul Magic: 2 abilities, 3 passives.
Vampire: 3 abilities, 6 passives.
Werewolf: 6 abilities, 6 passives.

Here we have the werewolf in the winner.. But oh wait, the werewolf's 5 abilities only gets activated while in a short werewolf ultimate ability form? Hmm.

You claim it is basic math, but it is far from. It is not math. It is a headcanon from which you've set, not ZoS, that now claims that the skill-line is incomplete. It is a claim you've made, and blatantly, it is a false claim unless Zenimax swoops in to say that the skill-line is indeed incomplete.

As I said earlier as well, would I mind more abilities? No. But I won't just sit by and watch while you blatantly slander lies about a video game that many of us feel passionate about, again, just because it does not fit your perfect ideal vampirism bloodline. Just because you feel that ZoS or Bethesda doesn't care about vampirism, doesn't entitle you to come and choose whenever something is incomplete or not, when you have absolutely no say in the matter.

Give suggestion to ZoS instead, like as you yourself pointed out, many has done before. But go in, shame on them, spit on them and literally tell everyone else that they deliever incomplete products, when its infact just an assumption you make because you're unhappy with one specific element of the game, which is known to change from game to game, is just depressing. Hence why I'm taking this debate with you now.

I still count 6 on werewolf, 3 on vampire. Cool. Also, it's a whole new bar, that's pretty awesome, people choose Overload for that sort of utility. Argument there, invalid.

Claiming my belief that the skill line is incomplete is pure headcannon when I have stated why, from a mechanical standpoint and a balancing standpoint why I hold this belief, is just plain old ignoring my arguments. This isn't some headcannon of ideal vampire super overlord sanic da hegehorg golden here, this is evidence of a glaringly obvious hole and suggestions of things that can fill it. You know, suggesting things, being productive. You should try that sometime.

This thread was about giving ZoS suggestions, ideas, and letting the players contribute until you came by and were all "nah work of art don't change nothin' don't agree with me you just don't know vampires like I do! You arguments are headcannon fantasy stuff yo!" Did I get your lingo right? I'll be honest, most of what you say is just white noise to me as you keep making the same arguments every post. Sorry I'm not really paying attention to you.

Last, but not least, to disprove your needing ZoS to say it's incomplete for it to be incomplete... You visit a car dealership. You happen to be given the car missing say the brake pedal. The dealer says it's complete, but you notice the rest of the cars can do something yours can't//have something yours doesn't. Do you smile and nod, or do you say it's incomplete and missing something?

Edit: Yes, I am unhappy with this, it's not enough. They handed up a bowl and put in no soup! It's a step in the right direction, the passive change is nice, but what's the point if Vampires are still more a detriment to play than a positive? Acccessing the skill line comes at a higher cost than any other with less reward than any other, we unlock fewer skills with this than we do with say becoming a Werewolf, and with greater penalty. Why pick up vampirism at all in it's state? They gave us the bowl, the ground work of something beautiful, but until we at least get either 1 - existing active skills buffed to being useful again or 2 - more active skills which I call a completed skill line, we've got a bowl with no soup.

ShadowHvo · April 2016

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Oh Do explain the Vampire Lord getting stronger by Feeding, that was more recent then the Stage vampires of Oblivion and Base Skyrim or better yet explain Lamae' Dialogue where she says that they will feed upon Arkya's Servants and use their stolen strength to conquer him, that does sound like Lorewise Vampires do get stronger from feeding yet game mechanics wise they made it the opposite to cater to noobs.

Either that or the reason you lose your power from feeding is because your character is so weak they cant yet stomach the blood so it makes them sick so It has a reverse effect.

Firstly, the vampire lord is an entirely different matter, one that thus far, is very rare, to the point of it being legendary. Not only that, but we don't even know whenever all bloodlines have it, or if it is exclusive to the Volkihar. But now, thats an entirely other can of worms.

As for Lamae, she is an NPC in the Elder Scrolls Universe, what is said is up to judgement. People are not always truthful, and they may even speak in riddles, or otherwise ways that would often be misleading. That is the way with TES, you see what you see, and you can only truely believe the events that your character experience first-handedly.

So now I ask you, in regards to Lamae, do you experience that your vampire grow stronger first-handedly yourself, or are you told by an elderly vampire that it makes you stronger?

Let me put it in a different term.. (And this is not to start any religious debate, pls don't kill me) but just because Jehovas' Witness tells me about a godly savior, doesn't mean that I will believe in it. I haven't seen this godly savior, hence I will not trust in their words about him. That is just an example, and not to spark any religious arguments. But my point is, is that Elder Scrolls is much like real-life in the way that we, as the players, perceive events and happenings. We never quite know if we're told a lie or a truth, until we experience it first handedly.

Thevampirenight wrote: »

I do think there should be a few blood lines of vampire with differant looks and traits maybe a few that we can become. But I guess they don't want to add to much coding for that so we just get to become one bloodline of vampire. I do like some of the changes but I want vampires to have fangs I hope they add fangs to vampires.

Oh god I would love that..

Imagine just having all bloodlines and being capable to choose the one that fits your playstyle the most. That would be the dream.

TX12001rwb17_ESO · April 2016

ShadowHvo wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Oh Do explain the Vampire Lord getting stronger by Feeding, that was more recent then the Stage vampires of Oblivion and Base Skyrim or better yet explain Lamae' Dialogue where she says that they will feed upon Arkya's Servants and use their stolen strength to conquer him, that does sound like Lorewise Vampires do get stronger from feeding yet game mechanics wise they made it the opposite to cater to noobs.

Either that or the reason you lose your power from feeding is because your character is so weak they cant yet stomach the blood so it makes them sick so It has a reverse effect.

Firstly, the vampire lord is an entirely different matter, one that thus far, is very rare, to the point of it being legendary. Not only that, but we don't even know whenever all bloodlines have it, or if it is exclusive to the Volkihar. But now, thats an entirely other can of worms.

So you cant explain it then.

7788b14_ESO · April 2016

A Vampire Lord would be a great ultimate. I'm looking forward to them making it one day.

ShadowHvo · April 2016

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Oh Do explain the Vampire Lord getting stronger by Feeding, that was more recent then the Stage vampires of Oblivion and Base Skyrim or better yet explain Lamae' Dialogue where she says that they will feed upon Arkya's Servants and use their stolen strength to conquer him, that does sound like Lorewise Vampires do get stronger from feeding yet game mechanics wise they made it the opposite to cater to noobs.

Either that or the reason you lose your power from feeding is because your character is so weak they cant yet stomach the blood so it makes them sick so It has a reverse effect.

Firstly, the vampire lord is an entirely different matter, one that thus far, is very rare, to the point of it being legendary. Not only that, but we don't even know whenever all bloodlines have it, or if it is exclusive to the Volkihar. But now, thats an entirely other can of worms.

So you cant explain it then.

Can you? =P

Isn't the wonder of TES inconsistencies just wonderful!

ParaNostram wrote: »

I still count 6 on werewolf, 3 on vampire. Cool. Also, it's a whole new bar, that's pretty awesome, people choose Overload for that sort of utility. Argument there, invalid.

Claiming my belief that the skill line is incomplete is pure headcannon when I have stated why, from a mechanical standpoint and a balancing standpoint why I hold this belief, is just plain old ignoring my arguments. This isn't some headcannon of ideal vampire super overlord sanic da hegehorg golden here, this is evidence of a glaringly obvious hole and suggestions of things that can fill it. You know, suggesting things, being productive. You should try that sometime.

This thread was about giving ZoS suggestions, ideas, and letting the players contribute until you came by and were all "nah work of art don't change nothin' don't agree with me you just don't know vampires like I do! You arguments are headcannon fantasy stuff yo!" Did I get your lingo right? I'll be honest, most of what you say is just white noise to me as you keep making the same arguments every post. Sorry I'm not really paying attention to you.

Last, but not least, to disprove your needing ZoS to say it's incomplete for it to be incomplete... You visit a car dealership. You happen to be given the car missing say the brake pedal. The dealer says it's complete, but you notice the rest of the cars can do something yours can't//have something yours doesn't. Do you smile and nod, or do you say it's incomplete and missing something?

Edit: Yes, I am unhappy with this, it's not enough. They handed up a bowl and put in no soup! It's a step in the right direction, the passive change is nice, but what's the point if Vampires are still more a detriment to play than a positive? Acccessing the skill line comes at a higher cost than any other with less reward than any other, we unlock fewer skills with this than we do with say becoming a Werewolf, and with greater penalty. Why pick up vampirism at all in it's state? They gave us the bowl, the ground work of something beautiful, but until we at least get either 1 - existing active skills buffed to being useful again or 2 - more active skills which I call a completed skill line, we've got a bowl with no soup.

Since you've expressed your desire in not caring for the discussion, I shall not prolong it any further. I disagree with you, a lot. But I'll let it be at that.

One thing we can agree on however, is that it would be awesome with more abilities to flesh out noxiphilic sanguivoria. I don't believe anyone is really against that. The only thing I am against you on this case, is that you state it is incomplete, of which I will disagree with until ZoS gives their final say on the matter. (Which lets be fair.. they most likely wont..)

I still firmly believe that we should praise ZoS for going in the right direction, instead of just shunning them, telling them that what they're doing is wrong, because that will only make them sidetrack. It is the rarest people that enjoyes a work where there is a whole lot of angry people throwing slander around. It just kills the fun, the mood, and the general desire to work on it.

ParaNostram · April 2016

ShadowHvo wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Oh Do explain the Vampire Lord getting stronger by Feeding, that was more recent then the Stage vampires of Oblivion and Base Skyrim or better yet explain Lamae' Dialogue where she says that they will feed upon Arkya's Servants and use their stolen strength to conquer him, that does sound like Lorewise Vampires do get stronger from feeding yet game mechanics wise they made it the opposite to cater to noobs.

Either that or the reason you lose your power from feeding is because your character is so weak they cant yet stomach the blood so it makes them sick so It has a reverse effect.

Firstly, the vampire lord is an entirely different matter, one that thus far, is very rare, to the point of it being legendary. Not only that, but we don't even know whenever all bloodlines have it, or if it is exclusive to the Volkihar. But now, thats an entirely other can of worms.

So you cant explain it then.

Can you? =P

Isn't the wonder of TES inconsistencies just wonderful!

ParaNostram wrote: »

I still count 6 on werewolf, 3 on vampire. Cool. Also, it's a whole new bar, that's pretty awesome, people choose Overload for that sort of utility. Argument there, invalid.

Claiming my belief that the skill line is incomplete is pure headcannon when I have stated why, from a mechanical standpoint and a balancing standpoint why I hold this belief, is just plain old ignoring my arguments. This isn't some headcannon of ideal vampire super overlord sanic da hegehorg golden here, this is evidence of a glaringly obvious hole and suggestions of things that can fill it. You know, suggesting things, being productive. You should try that sometime.

This thread was about giving ZoS suggestions, ideas, and letting the players contribute until you came by and were all "nah work of art don't change nothin' don't agree with me you just don't know vampires like I do! You arguments are headcannon fantasy stuff yo!" Did I get your lingo right? I'll be honest, most of what you say is just white noise to me as you keep making the same arguments every post. Sorry I'm not really paying attention to you.

Last, but not least, to disprove your needing ZoS to say it's incomplete for it to be incomplete... You visit a car dealership. You happen to be given the car missing say the brake pedal. The dealer says it's complete, but you notice the rest of the cars can do something yours can't//have something yours doesn't. Do you smile and nod, or do you say it's incomplete and missing something?

Edit: Yes, I am unhappy with this, it's not enough. They handed up a bowl and put in no soup! It's a step in the right direction, the passive change is nice, but what's the point if Vampires are still more a detriment to play than a positive? Acccessing the skill line comes at a higher cost than any other with less reward than any other, we unlock fewer skills with this than we do with say becoming a Werewolf, and with greater penalty. Why pick up vampirism at all in it's state? They gave us the bowl, the ground work of something beautiful, but until we at least get either 1 - existing active skills buffed to being useful again or 2 - more active skills which I call a completed skill line, we've got a bowl with no soup.

Since you've expressed your desire in not caring for the discussion, I shall not prolong it any further. I disagree with you, a lot. But I'll let it be at that.

One thing we can agree on however, is that it would be awesome with more abilities to flesh out noxiphilic sanguivoria. I don't believe anyone is really against that. The only thing I am against you on this case, is that you state it is incomplete, of which I will disagree with until ZoS gives their final say on the matter. (Which lets be fair.. they most likely wont..)

I still firmly believe that we should praise ZoS for going in the right direction, instead of just shunning them, telling them that what they're doing is wrong, because that will only make them sidetrack. It is the rarest people that enjoyes a work where there is a whole lot of angry people throwing slander around. It just kills the fun, the mood, and the general desire to work on it.

I never said they're not going in the right direction. Hey, you, the things that I said, read them! I said it was a step in the right direction but it ain't enough! Okay? Okay! Asking for more isn't shunning them. Also, boo hoo, killing their mood? They're getting paid to work on this game, least they can do is keep working on it. Nothing is finished, nothing is complete, everything stands to be improved. It's the nature of MMOs. Some things are more complete than others, such as everything compared to vampirism. Builders lay the foundation for my house, and then walk away like it's done? Nah, I'm glad they laid the foundation, but I sure as hell gonna make sure they know to finish the job.

ShadowHvo · April 2016

ParaNostram wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Oh Do explain the Vampire Lord getting stronger by Feeding, that was more recent then the Stage vampires of Oblivion and Base Skyrim or better yet explain Lamae' Dialogue where she says that they will feed upon Arkya's Servants and use their stolen strength to conquer him, that does sound like Lorewise Vampires do get stronger from feeding yet game mechanics wise they made it the opposite to cater to noobs.

Either that or the reason you lose your power from feeding is because your character is so weak they cant yet stomach the blood so it makes them sick so It has a reverse effect.

Firstly, the vampire lord is an entirely different matter, one that thus far, is very rare, to the point of it being legendary. Not only that, but we don't even know whenever all bloodlines have it, or if it is exclusive to the Volkihar. But now, thats an entirely other can of worms.

So you cant explain it then.

Can you? =P

Isn't the wonder of TES inconsistencies just wonderful!

ParaNostram wrote: »

I still count 6 on werewolf, 3 on vampire. Cool. Also, it's a whole new bar, that's pretty awesome, people choose Overload for that sort of utility. Argument there, invalid.

Claiming my belief that the skill line is incomplete is pure headcannon when I have stated why, from a mechanical standpoint and a balancing standpoint why I hold this belief, is just plain old ignoring my arguments. This isn't some headcannon of ideal vampire super overlord sanic da hegehorg golden here, this is evidence of a glaringly obvious hole and suggestions of things that can fill it. You know, suggesting things, being productive. You should try that sometime.

This thread was about giving ZoS suggestions, ideas, and letting the players contribute until you came by and were all "nah work of art don't change nothin' don't agree with me you just don't know vampires like I do! You arguments are headcannon fantasy stuff yo!" Did I get your lingo right? I'll be honest, most of what you say is just white noise to me as you keep making the same arguments every post. Sorry I'm not really paying attention to you.

Last, but not least, to disprove your needing ZoS to say it's incomplete for it to be incomplete... You visit a car dealership. You happen to be given the car missing say the brake pedal. The dealer says it's complete, but you notice the rest of the cars can do something yours can't//have something yours doesn't. Do you smile and nod, or do you say it's incomplete and missing something?

Edit: Yes, I am unhappy with this, it's not enough. They handed up a bowl and put in no soup! It's a step in the right direction, the passive change is nice, but what's the point if Vampires are still more a detriment to play than a positive? Acccessing the skill line comes at a higher cost than any other with less reward than any other, we unlock fewer skills with this than we do with say becoming a Werewolf, and with greater penalty. Why pick up vampirism at all in it's state? They gave us the bowl, the ground work of something beautiful, but until we at least get either 1 - existing active skills buffed to being useful again or 2 - more active skills which I call a completed skill line, we've got a bowl with no soup.

Since you've expressed your desire in not caring for the discussion, I shall not prolong it any further. I disagree with you, a lot. But I'll let it be at that.

One thing we can agree on however, is that it would be awesome with more abilities to flesh out noxiphilic sanguivoria. I don't believe anyone is really against that. The only thing I am against you on this case, is that you state it is incomplete, of which I will disagree with until ZoS gives their final say on the matter. (Which lets be fair.. they most likely wont..)

I still firmly believe that we should praise ZoS for going in the right direction, instead of just shunning them, telling them that what they're doing is wrong, because that will only make them sidetrack. It is the rarest people that enjoyes a work where there is a whole lot of angry people throwing slander around. It just kills the fun, the mood, and the general desire to work on it.

I never said they're not going in the right direction. Hey, you, the things that I said, read them! I said it was a step in the right direction but it ain't enough! Okay? Okay! Asking for more isn't shunning them. Also, boo hoo, killing their mood? They're getting paid to work on this game, least they can do is keep working on it. Nothing is finished, nothing is complete, everything stands to be improved. It's the nature of MMOs. Some things are more complete than others, such as everything compared to vampirism. Builders lay the foundation for my house, and then walk away like it's done? Nah, I'm glad they laid the foundation, but I sure as hell gonna make sure they know to finish the job.

But the key there is still the same, it is but an opinion, your opinion, one which you undoubtly share with many others. But on the other side, there are others that share the opinion of it being complete as it is.

This is not like the foundation of a house. It would be a complete house, a small one. Right next to those other bigger houses. Whenever they will then choose to expand or not is entirely up to them, but the house itself is complete as a house. So too is the vampire skill-tree.

Blacksheepart · April 2016

Your vampire stealth speed even in stage 4 is slow and still the same as normal sneak.

ListerJMC · April 2016

Blacksheepart wrote: »

Your vampire stealth speed even in stage 4 is slow and still the same as normal sneak.

So they've broken it completely now? It's a sign ZOS, change it back to how it was.

ParaNostram · April 2016

ShadowHvo wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Oh Do explain the Vampire Lord getting stronger by Feeding, that was more recent then the Stage vampires of Oblivion and Base Skyrim or better yet explain Lamae' Dialogue where she says that they will feed upon Arkya's Servants and use their stolen strength to conquer him, that does sound like Lorewise Vampires do get stronger from feeding yet game mechanics wise they made it the opposite to cater to noobs.

Either that or the reason you lose your power from feeding is because your character is so weak they cant yet stomach the blood so it makes them sick so It has a reverse effect.

Firstly, the vampire lord is an entirely different matter, one that thus far, is very rare, to the point of it being legendary. Not only that, but we don't even know whenever all bloodlines have it, or if it is exclusive to the Volkihar. But now, thats an entirely other can of worms.

So you cant explain it then.

Can you? =P

Isn't the wonder of TES inconsistencies just wonderful!

ParaNostram wrote: »

I still count 6 on werewolf, 3 on vampire. Cool. Also, it's a whole new bar, that's pretty awesome, people choose Overload for that sort of utility. Argument there, invalid.

Claiming my belief that the skill line is incomplete is pure headcannon when I have stated why, from a mechanical standpoint and a balancing standpoint why I hold this belief, is just plain old ignoring my arguments. This isn't some headcannon of ideal vampire super overlord sanic da hegehorg golden here, this is evidence of a glaringly obvious hole and suggestions of things that can fill it. You know, suggesting things, being productive. You should try that sometime.

This thread was about giving ZoS suggestions, ideas, and letting the players contribute until you came by and were all "nah work of art don't change nothin' don't agree with me you just don't know vampires like I do! You arguments are headcannon fantasy stuff yo!" Did I get your lingo right? I'll be honest, most of what you say is just white noise to me as you keep making the same arguments every post. Sorry I'm not really paying attention to you.

Last, but not least, to disprove your needing ZoS to say it's incomplete for it to be incomplete... You visit a car dealership. You happen to be given the car missing say the brake pedal. The dealer says it's complete, but you notice the rest of the cars can do something yours can't//have something yours doesn't. Do you smile and nod, or do you say it's incomplete and missing something?

Edit: Yes, I am unhappy with this, it's not enough. They handed up a bowl and put in no soup! It's a step in the right direction, the passive change is nice, but what's the point if Vampires are still more a detriment to play than a positive? Acccessing the skill line comes at a higher cost than any other with less reward than any other, we unlock fewer skills with this than we do with say becoming a Werewolf, and with greater penalty. Why pick up vampirism at all in it's state? They gave us the bowl, the ground work of something beautiful, but until we at least get either 1 - existing active skills buffed to being useful again or 2 - more active skills which I call a completed skill line, we've got a bowl with no soup.

Since you've expressed your desire in not caring for the discussion, I shall not prolong it any further. I disagree with you, a lot. But I'll let it be at that.

One thing we can agree on however, is that it would be awesome with more abilities to flesh out noxiphilic sanguivoria. I don't believe anyone is really against that. The only thing I am against you on this case, is that you state it is incomplete, of which I will disagree with until ZoS gives their final say on the matter. (Which lets be fair.. they most likely wont..)

I still firmly believe that we should praise ZoS for going in the right direction, instead of just shunning them, telling them that what they're doing is wrong, because that will only make them sidetrack. It is the rarest people that enjoyes a work where there is a whole lot of angry people throwing slander around. It just kills the fun, the mood, and the general desire to work on it.

I never said they're not going in the right direction. Hey, you, the things that I said, read them! I said it was a step in the right direction but it ain't enough! Okay? Okay! Asking for more isn't shunning them. Also, boo hoo, killing their mood? They're getting paid to work on this game, least they can do is keep working on it. Nothing is finished, nothing is complete, everything stands to be improved. It's the nature of MMOs. Some things are more complete than others, such as everything compared to vampirism. Builders lay the foundation for my house, and then walk away like it's done? Nah, I'm glad they laid the foundation, but I sure as hell gonna make sure they know to finish the job.

But the key there is still the same, it is but an opinion, your opinion, one which you undoubtly share with many others. But on the other side, there are others that share the opinion of it being complete as it is.

This is not like the foundation of a house. It would be a complete house, a small one. Right next to those other bigger houses. Whenever they will then choose to expand or not is entirely up to them, but the house itself is complete as a house. So too is the vampire skill-tree.

Oh now it's different opinions and not a headcannon? Which is it, is my argument to be dismissed as nonsense or is it an opinion held by a number of people?

ShadowHvo · April 2016

ParaNostram wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Oh Do explain the Vampire Lord getting stronger by Feeding, that was more recent then the Stage vampires of Oblivion and Base Skyrim or better yet explain Lamae' Dialogue where she says that they will feed upon Arkya's Servants and use their stolen strength to conquer him, that does sound like Lorewise Vampires do get stronger from feeding yet game mechanics wise they made it the opposite to cater to noobs.

Either that or the reason you lose your power from feeding is because your character is so weak they cant yet stomach the blood so it makes them sick so It has a reverse effect.

Firstly, the vampire lord is an entirely different matter, one that thus far, is very rare, to the point of it being legendary. Not only that, but we don't even know whenever all bloodlines have it, or if it is exclusive to the Volkihar. But now, thats an entirely other can of worms.

So you cant explain it then.

Can you? =P

Isn't the wonder of TES inconsistencies just wonderful!

ParaNostram wrote: »

I still count 6 on werewolf, 3 on vampire. Cool. Also, it's a whole new bar, that's pretty awesome, people choose Overload for that sort of utility. Argument there, invalid.

Claiming my belief that the skill line is incomplete is pure headcannon when I have stated why, from a mechanical standpoint and a balancing standpoint why I hold this belief, is just plain old ignoring my arguments. This isn't some headcannon of ideal vampire super overlord sanic da hegehorg golden here, this is evidence of a glaringly obvious hole and suggestions of things that can fill it. You know, suggesting things, being productive. You should try that sometime.

This thread was about giving ZoS suggestions, ideas, and letting the players contribute until you came by and were all "nah work of art don't change nothin' don't agree with me you just don't know vampires like I do! You arguments are headcannon fantasy stuff yo!" Did I get your lingo right? I'll be honest, most of what you say is just white noise to me as you keep making the same arguments every post. Sorry I'm not really paying attention to you.

Last, but not least, to disprove your needing ZoS to say it's incomplete for it to be incomplete... You visit a car dealership. You happen to be given the car missing say the brake pedal. The dealer says it's complete, but you notice the rest of the cars can do something yours can't//have something yours doesn't. Do you smile and nod, or do you say it's incomplete and missing something?

Edit: Yes, I am unhappy with this, it's not enough. They handed up a bowl and put in no soup! It's a step in the right direction, the passive change is nice, but what's the point if Vampires are still more a detriment to play than a positive? Acccessing the skill line comes at a higher cost than any other with less reward than any other, we unlock fewer skills with this than we do with say becoming a Werewolf, and with greater penalty. Why pick up vampirism at all in it's state? They gave us the bowl, the ground work of something beautiful, but until we at least get either 1 - existing active skills buffed to being useful again or 2 - more active skills which I call a completed skill line, we've got a bowl with no soup.

Since you've expressed your desire in not caring for the discussion, I shall not prolong it any further. I disagree with you, a lot. But I'll let it be at that.

One thing we can agree on however, is that it would be awesome with more abilities to flesh out noxiphilic sanguivoria. I don't believe anyone is really against that. The only thing I am against you on this case, is that you state it is incomplete, of which I will disagree with until ZoS gives their final say on the matter. (Which lets be fair.. they most likely wont..)

I still firmly believe that we should praise ZoS for going in the right direction, instead of just shunning them, telling them that what they're doing is wrong, because that will only make them sidetrack. It is the rarest people that enjoyes a work where there is a whole lot of angry people throwing slander around. It just kills the fun, the mood, and the general desire to work on it.

I never said they're not going in the right direction. Hey, you, the things that I said, read them! I said it was a step in the right direction but it ain't enough! Okay? Okay! Asking for more isn't shunning them. Also, boo hoo, killing their mood? They're getting paid to work on this game, least they can do is keep working on it. Nothing is finished, nothing is complete, everything stands to be improved. It's the nature of MMOs. Some things are more complete than others, such as everything compared to vampirism. Builders lay the foundation for my house, and then walk away like it's done? Nah, I'm glad they laid the foundation, but I sure as hell gonna make sure they know to finish the job.

But the key there is still the same, it is but an opinion, your opinion, one which you undoubtly share with many others. But on the other side, there are others that share the opinion of it being complete as it is.

This is not like the foundation of a house. It would be a complete house, a small one. Right next to those other bigger houses. Whenever they will then choose to expand or not is entirely up to them, but the house itself is complete as a house. So too is the vampire skill-tree.

Oh now it's different opinions and not a headcannon? Which is it, is my argument to be dismissed as nonsense or is it an opinion held by a number of people?

An opinion and a headcanon is but the same.

ParaNostram · April 2016

ShadowHvo wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Oh Do explain the Vampire Lord getting stronger by Feeding, that was more recent then the Stage vampires of Oblivion and Base Skyrim or better yet explain Lamae' Dialogue where she says that they will feed upon Arkya's Servants and use their stolen strength to conquer him, that does sound like Lorewise Vampires do get stronger from feeding yet game mechanics wise they made it the opposite to cater to noobs.

Either that or the reason you lose your power from feeding is because your character is so weak they cant yet stomach the blood so it makes them sick so It has a reverse effect.

Firstly, the vampire lord is an entirely different matter, one that thus far, is very rare, to the point of it being legendary. Not only that, but we don't even know whenever all bloodlines have it, or if it is exclusive to the Volkihar. But now, thats an entirely other can of worms.

So you cant explain it then.

Can you? =P

Isn't the wonder of TES inconsistencies just wonderful!

ParaNostram wrote: »

I still count 6 on werewolf, 3 on vampire. Cool. Also, it's a whole new bar, that's pretty awesome, people choose Overload for that sort of utility. Argument there, invalid.

Claiming my belief that the skill line is incomplete is pure headcannon when I have stated why, from a mechanical standpoint and a balancing standpoint why I hold this belief, is just plain old ignoring my arguments. This isn't some headcannon of ideal vampire super overlord sanic da hegehorg golden here, this is evidence of a glaringly obvious hole and suggestions of things that can fill it. You know, suggesting things, being productive. You should try that sometime.

This thread was about giving ZoS suggestions, ideas, and letting the players contribute until you came by and were all "nah work of art don't change nothin' don't agree with me you just don't know vampires like I do! You arguments are headcannon fantasy stuff yo!" Did I get your lingo right? I'll be honest, most of what you say is just white noise to me as you keep making the same arguments every post. Sorry I'm not really paying attention to you.

Last, but not least, to disprove your needing ZoS to say it's incomplete for it to be incomplete... You visit a car dealership. You happen to be given the car missing say the brake pedal. The dealer says it's complete, but you notice the rest of the cars can do something yours can't//have something yours doesn't. Do you smile and nod, or do you say it's incomplete and missing something?

Edit: Yes, I am unhappy with this, it's not enough. They handed up a bowl and put in no soup! It's a step in the right direction, the passive change is nice, but what's the point if Vampires are still more a detriment to play than a positive? Acccessing the skill line comes at a higher cost than any other with less reward than any other, we unlock fewer skills with this than we do with say becoming a Werewolf, and with greater penalty. Why pick up vampirism at all in it's state? They gave us the bowl, the ground work of something beautiful, but until we at least get either 1 - existing active skills buffed to being useful again or 2 - more active skills which I call a completed skill line, we've got a bowl with no soup.

Since you've expressed your desire in not caring for the discussion, I shall not prolong it any further. I disagree with you, a lot. But I'll let it be at that.

One thing we can agree on however, is that it would be awesome with more abilities to flesh out noxiphilic sanguivoria. I don't believe anyone is really against that. The only thing I am against you on this case, is that you state it is incomplete, of which I will disagree with until ZoS gives their final say on the matter. (Which lets be fair.. they most likely wont..)

I still firmly believe that we should praise ZoS for going in the right direction, instead of just shunning them, telling them that what they're doing is wrong, because that will only make them sidetrack. It is the rarest people that enjoyes a work where there is a whole lot of angry people throwing slander around. It just kills the fun, the mood, and the general desire to work on it.

I never said they're not going in the right direction. Hey, you, the things that I said, read them! I said it was a step in the right direction but it ain't enough! Okay? Okay! Asking for more isn't shunning them. Also, boo hoo, killing their mood? They're getting paid to work on this game, least they can do is keep working on it. Nothing is finished, nothing is complete, everything stands to be improved. It's the nature of MMOs. Some things are more complete than others, such as everything compared to vampirism. Builders lay the foundation for my house, and then walk away like it's done? Nah, I'm glad they laid the foundation, but I sure as hell gonna make sure they know to finish the job.

But the key there is still the same, it is but an opinion, your opinion, one which you undoubtly share with many others. But on the other side, there are others that share the opinion of it being complete as it is.

This is not like the foundation of a house. It would be a complete house, a small one. Right next to those other bigger houses. Whenever they will then choose to expand or not is entirely up to them, but the house itself is complete as a house. So too is the vampire skill-tree.

Oh now it's different opinions and not a headcannon? Which is it, is my argument to be dismissed as nonsense or is it an opinion held by a number of people?

An opinion and a headcanon is but the same.

headcanon. Noun. (uncountable) (fandom slang) Elements and interpretations of a fictional universe accepted by an individual fan, but not found within or supported by the official canon.

Nope, calling it headcanon is inherently dismissive, as headcanons are not supported by official canon. You're basically saying I'm pulling it all out of my ass.

ListerJMC · April 2016

So I just keep staring at this and what I can gather is that the stealth speed is supposed to be the primary bonus for not feeding and taking all the extra damage on board; along with the vampiric ability cost reduction (but we'll see what the verdict is on their usefulness when they get tested). Is there nothing else that could be that extra bonus? I just think dark stalker should be constantly active.

ShadowHvo · April 2016

ParaNostram wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Oh Do explain the Vampire Lord getting stronger by Feeding, that was more recent then the Stage vampires of Oblivion and Base Skyrim or better yet explain Lamae' Dialogue where she says that they will feed upon Arkya's Servants and use their stolen strength to conquer him, that does sound like Lorewise Vampires do get stronger from feeding yet game mechanics wise they made it the opposite to cater to noobs.

Either that or the reason you lose your power from feeding is because your character is so weak they cant yet stomach the blood so it makes them sick so It has a reverse effect.

Firstly, the vampire lord is an entirely different matter, one that thus far, is very rare, to the point of it being legendary. Not only that, but we don't even know whenever all bloodlines have it, or if it is exclusive to the Volkihar. But now, thats an entirely other can of worms.

So you cant explain it then.

Can you? =P

Isn't the wonder of TES inconsistencies just wonderful!

ParaNostram wrote: »

I still count 6 on werewolf, 3 on vampire. Cool. Also, it's a whole new bar, that's pretty awesome, people choose Overload for that sort of utility. Argument there, invalid.

Claiming my belief that the skill line is incomplete is pure headcannon when I have stated why, from a mechanical standpoint and a balancing standpoint why I hold this belief, is just plain old ignoring my arguments. This isn't some headcannon of ideal vampire super overlord sanic da hegehorg golden here, this is evidence of a glaringly obvious hole and suggestions of things that can fill it. You know, suggesting things, being productive. You should try that sometime.

This thread was about giving ZoS suggestions, ideas, and letting the players contribute until you came by and were all "nah work of art don't change nothin' don't agree with me you just don't know vampires like I do! You arguments are headcannon fantasy stuff yo!" Did I get your lingo right? I'll be honest, most of what you say is just white noise to me as you keep making the same arguments every post. Sorry I'm not really paying attention to you.

Last, but not least, to disprove your needing ZoS to say it's incomplete for it to be incomplete... You visit a car dealership. You happen to be given the car missing say the brake pedal. The dealer says it's complete, but you notice the rest of the cars can do something yours can't//have something yours doesn't. Do you smile and nod, or do you say it's incomplete and missing something?

Edit: Yes, I am unhappy with this, it's not enough. They handed up a bowl and put in no soup! It's a step in the right direction, the passive change is nice, but what's the point if Vampires are still more a detriment to play than a positive? Acccessing the skill line comes at a higher cost than any other with less reward than any other, we unlock fewer skills with this than we do with say becoming a Werewolf, and with greater penalty. Why pick up vampirism at all in it's state? They gave us the bowl, the ground work of something beautiful, but until we at least get either 1 - existing active skills buffed to being useful again or 2 - more active skills which I call a completed skill line, we've got a bowl with no soup.

Since you've expressed your desire in not caring for the discussion, I shall not prolong it any further. I disagree with you, a lot. But I'll let it be at that.

One thing we can agree on however, is that it would be awesome with more abilities to flesh out noxiphilic sanguivoria. I don't believe anyone is really against that. The only thing I am against you on this case, is that you state it is incomplete, of which I will disagree with until ZoS gives their final say on the matter. (Which lets be fair.. they most likely wont..)

I still firmly believe that we should praise ZoS for going in the right direction, instead of just shunning them, telling them that what they're doing is wrong, because that will only make them sidetrack. It is the rarest people that enjoyes a work where there is a whole lot of angry people throwing slander around. It just kills the fun, the mood, and the general desire to work on it.

I never said they're not going in the right direction. Hey, you, the things that I said, read them! I said it was a step in the right direction but it ain't enough! Okay? Okay! Asking for more isn't shunning them. Also, boo hoo, killing their mood? They're getting paid to work on this game, least they can do is keep working on it. Nothing is finished, nothing is complete, everything stands to be improved. It's the nature of MMOs. Some things are more complete than others, such as everything compared to vampirism. Builders lay the foundation for my house, and then walk away like it's done? Nah, I'm glad they laid the foundation, but I sure as hell gonna make sure they know to finish the job.

But the key there is still the same, it is but an opinion, your opinion, one which you undoubtly share with many others. But on the other side, there are others that share the opinion of it being complete as it is.

This is not like the foundation of a house. It would be a complete house, a small one. Right next to those other bigger houses. Whenever they will then choose to expand or not is entirely up to them, but the house itself is complete as a house. So too is the vampire skill-tree.

Oh now it's different opinions and not a headcannon? Which is it, is my argument to be dismissed as nonsense or is it an opinion held by a number of people?

An opinion and a headcanon is but the same.

headcanon. Noun. (uncountable) (fandom slang) Elements and interpretations of a fictional universe accepted by an individual fan, but not found within or supported by the official canon.

Nope, calling it headcanon is inherently dismissive, as headcanons are not supported by official canon. You're basically saying I'm pulling it all out of my ass.

And yet, you're, when you make a statement such as it being incomplete. That is entirely your opinion spawned from your headcanon of how big a skill-line must be, or otherwise how many skills the vampire should possess.

The fact of the matter is: Its not for you to decide, its for ZoS to decide how big each skill-line is. We have skill-lines with 6 actives, 5 actives, 3 active, 2 active, 1 active and a whole 0 active abilities. Vampirism is right in the middle with 3 active abilities, and a whole lot of passives.

You claim that the werewolf abilities all count as active, despite that 5 require a prerequisit of the ultimate being activated and upheld, where the vampires has no such restrictions with their three abilities, of which they can mix and match as they please, and yet.. the werewolf is locked, completely. They're not comparable, at least not properly, because they do not share the same context of use.

Werewolf only had 2 abilities as well to begin with, yet they were given three more to fill up the werewolf bar, because they literally had no other option. Vampires can mix and match, Werewolves cannot.

I will say what I said before, it is entirely your opinion spawned from your headcanon of how it should be. ZoS has given us a complete skill-line with 3 active abilities and 6 passives, and that is what we have ingame.

ParaNostram · April 2016

ShadowHvo wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Oh Do explain the Vampire Lord getting stronger by Feeding, that was more recent then the Stage vampires of Oblivion and Base Skyrim or better yet explain Lamae' Dialogue where she says that they will feed upon Arkya's Servants and use their stolen strength to conquer him, that does sound like Lorewise Vampires do get stronger from feeding yet game mechanics wise they made it the opposite to cater to noobs.

Either that or the reason you lose your power from feeding is because your character is so weak they cant yet stomach the blood so it makes them sick so It has a reverse effect.

Firstly, the vampire lord is an entirely different matter, one that thus far, is very rare, to the point of it being legendary. Not only that, but we don't even know whenever all bloodlines have it, or if it is exclusive to the Volkihar. But now, thats an entirely other can of worms.

So you cant explain it then.

Can you? =P

Isn't the wonder of TES inconsistencies just wonderful!

ParaNostram wrote: »

I still count 6 on werewolf, 3 on vampire. Cool. Also, it's a whole new bar, that's pretty awesome, people choose Overload for that sort of utility. Argument there, invalid.

Claiming my belief that the skill line is incomplete is pure headcannon when I have stated why, from a mechanical standpoint and a balancing standpoint why I hold this belief, is just plain old ignoring my arguments. This isn't some headcannon of ideal vampire super overlord sanic da hegehorg golden here, this is evidence of a glaringly obvious hole and suggestions of things that can fill it. You know, suggesting things, being productive. You should try that sometime.

This thread was about giving ZoS suggestions, ideas, and letting the players contribute until you came by and were all "nah work of art don't change nothin' don't agree with me you just don't know vampires like I do! You arguments are headcannon fantasy stuff yo!" Did I get your lingo right? I'll be honest, most of what you say is just white noise to me as you keep making the same arguments every post. Sorry I'm not really paying attention to you.

Last, but not least, to disprove your needing ZoS to say it's incomplete for it to be incomplete... You visit a car dealership. You happen to be given the car missing say the brake pedal. The dealer says it's complete, but you notice the rest of the cars can do something yours can't//have something yours doesn't. Do you smile and nod, or do you say it's incomplete and missing something?

Edit: Yes, I am unhappy with this, it's not enough. They handed up a bowl and put in no soup! It's a step in the right direction, the passive change is nice, but what's the point if Vampires are still more a detriment to play than a positive? Acccessing the skill line comes at a higher cost than any other with less reward than any other, we unlock fewer skills with this than we do with say becoming a Werewolf, and with greater penalty. Why pick up vampirism at all in it's state? They gave us the bowl, the ground work of something beautiful, but until we at least get either 1 - existing active skills buffed to being useful again or 2 - more active skills which I call a completed skill line, we've got a bowl with no soup.

Since you've expressed your desire in not caring for the discussion, I shall not prolong it any further. I disagree with you, a lot. But I'll let it be at that.

One thing we can agree on however, is that it would be awesome with more abilities to flesh out noxiphilic sanguivoria. I don't believe anyone is really against that. The only thing I am against you on this case, is that you state it is incomplete, of which I will disagree with until ZoS gives their final say on the matter. (Which lets be fair.. they most likely wont..)

I still firmly believe that we should praise ZoS for going in the right direction, instead of just shunning them, telling them that what they're doing is wrong, because that will only make them sidetrack. It is the rarest people that enjoyes a work where there is a whole lot of angry people throwing slander around. It just kills the fun, the mood, and the general desire to work on it.

I never said they're not going in the right direction. Hey, you, the things that I said, read them! I said it was a step in the right direction but it ain't enough! Okay? Okay! Asking for more isn't shunning them. Also, boo hoo, killing their mood? They're getting paid to work on this game, least they can do is keep working on it. Nothing is finished, nothing is complete, everything stands to be improved. It's the nature of MMOs. Some things are more complete than others, such as everything compared to vampirism. Builders lay the foundation for my house, and then walk away like it's done? Nah, I'm glad they laid the foundation, but I sure as hell gonna make sure they know to finish the job.

But the key there is still the same, it is but an opinion, your opinion, one which you undoubtly share with many others. But on the other side, there are others that share the opinion of it being complete as it is.

This is not like the foundation of a house. It would be a complete house, a small one. Right next to those other bigger houses. Whenever they will then choose to expand or not is entirely up to them, but the house itself is complete as a house. So too is the vampire skill-tree.

Oh now it's different opinions and not a headcannon? Which is it, is my argument to be dismissed as nonsense or is it an opinion held by a number of people?

An opinion and a headcanon is but the same.

headcanon. Noun. (uncountable) (fandom slang) Elements and interpretations of a fictional universe accepted by an individual fan, but not found within or supported by the official canon.

Nope, calling it headcanon is inherently dismissive, as headcanons are not supported by official canon. You're basically saying I'm pulling it all out of my ass.

And yet, you're, when you make a statement such as it being incomplete. That is entirely your opinion spawned from your headcanon of how big a skill-line must be, or otherwise how many skills the vampire should possess.

The fact of the matter is: Its not for you to decide, its for ZoS to decide how big each skill-line is. We have skill-lines with 6 actives, 5 actives, 3 active, 2 active, 1 active and a whole 0 active abilities. Vampirism is right in the middle with 3 active abilities, and a whole lot of passives.

You claim that the werewolf abilities all count as active, despite that 5 require a prerequisit of the ultimate being activated and upheld, where the vampires has no such restrictions with their three abilities, of which they can mix and match as they please, and yet.. the werewolf is locked, completely. They're not comparable, at least not properly, because they do not share the same context of use.

Werewolf only had 2 abilities as well to begin with, yet they were given three more to fill up the werewolf bar, because they literally had no other option. Vampires can mix and match, Werewolves cannot.

I will say what I said before, it is entirely your opinion spawned from your headcanon of how it should be. ZoS has given us a complete skill-line with 3 active abilities and 6 passives, and that is what we have ingame.

Head cannons are not mechanics based, opinions and ideas of how games should play are mechanically based.

Now then, to say Razum'Dar was the real power behind the throne and Ayrenn was just a puppet of his Khajiiti shadow empire? That's a headcanon. To say "the game would be better if we added to this mechanic//feature" is offering feedback, an opinion.

I never thought I would have to explain that. Wow. I have to reevaluate my view of humanity now, thank you.

When in doubt, ask yourself, does it effect the story but is not confirmed part of the story? If the answer is yes, then it is a headcanon. Does adding a few abilities to the vampire skill line effect the story//lore? It didn't to werewolves, it doesn't anymore than the recent change to stamina DKs making them balls of bile and poison (talk about a toxic community badum'tish!)

ShadowHvo · April 2016

ParaNostram wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

Oh now it's different opinions and not a headcannon? Which is it, is my argument to be dismissed as nonsense or is it an opinion held by a number of people?

An opinion and a headcanon is but the same.

headcanon. Noun. (uncountable) (fandom slang) Elements and interpretations of a fictional universe accepted by an individual fan, but not found within or supported by the official canon.

Nope, calling it headcanon is inherently dismissive, as headcanons are not supported by official canon. You're basically saying I'm pulling it all out of my ass.

And yet, you're, when you make a statement such as it being incomplete. That is entirely your opinion spawned from your headcanon of how big a skill-line must be, or otherwise how many skills the vampire should possess.

The fact of the matter is: Its not for you to decide, its for ZoS to decide how big each skill-line is. We have skill-lines with 6 actives, 5 actives, 3 active, 2 active, 1 active and a whole 0 active abilities. Vampirism is right in the middle with 3 active abilities, and a whole lot of passives.

You claim that the werewolf abilities all count as active, despite that 5 require a prerequisit of the ultimate being activated and upheld, where the vampires has no such restrictions with their three abilities, of which they can mix and match as they please, and yet.. the werewolf is locked, completely. They're not comparable, at least not properly, because they do not share the same context of use.

Werewolf only had 2 abilities as well to begin with, yet they were given three more to fill up the werewolf bar, because they literally had no other option. Vampires can mix and match, Werewolves cannot.

I will say what I said before, it is entirely your opinion spawned from your headcanon of how it should be. ZoS has given us a complete skill-line with 3 active abilities and 6 passives, and that is what we have ingame.

Head cannons are not mechanics based, opinions and ideas of how games should play are mechanically based.

Now then, to say Razum'Dar was the real power behind the throne and Ayrenn was just a puppet of his Khajiiti shadow empire? That's a headcanon. To say "the game would be better if we added to this mechanic//feature" is offering feedback, an opinion.

I never thought I would have to explain that. Wow. I have to reevaluate my view of humanity now, thank you.

And yet, it is your opinion whenever that headcanon is true or not.

You don't quite seem to grasp it, do you? A headcanon is an idea or opinion of another medium. It is your opinion whenever a headcanon is real, or not. You can twist and bend it in as many ways as you want to. Matter of fact is, is that it doesn't make you any less right about vampirism being incomplete, because as I said, it is purely your opinion based on your own headcanon of how skill-lines are supposed to be shaped.

But I guess you can just keep ignoring my points, its cool, I shall answer you again tomorrow when I awake from my slumber.

phreatophile · April 2016

You didn't think they would have this scheme of passives coming and going by stage actually working. The were bang on at launch where death or changing zones would kill the passives and some of them didn't work at all.

For the record, this change to the stage mechanics is a step in the right direction. That said, its a repair job, the presentation of vampirism in ESO on live is awful.

I get that in RP you don't care about the meta. Some of us do though. What they are sending to PTS is all the same useless skills so no improvement really; none of the changes are enough to earn the actives any bar space. To have everything I currently have at stage one I will have to be in stage 4 = nerf. Sure health regen will be better, but so what, passive health regen matters almost not at all. Lower fire damage will be nice, but if you care about the lore, this is wrong. On the subject of lore, where is CC, disease, frost, and poison immnuity? Where is Vampiric Seduction, Dectect life, night vision, and Shadow's Embrace?

I'm glad the stage timers will be longer, I'm glad that I can get the extra regen without having to slot any of the garbage skills, I'm glad I can play without the fire damage debuff when I choose to. I'm annoyed that if I've fed my character, its a mortal with bad skin and worse active skills. I'm especially perturbed about loosing dark stalker, stealth is intolerable without it but I find running around consistently starved to be ridiculous and I'm not about to waste a set bonus on sneak speed.

They've done a lot right here, but Vampirism did not need another net nerf, that is what I'm unhappy about.

Tholian1 · April 2016

Not sure I am liking the change to the Dark Stalker passive only applying during stage 4 vampirism. May as well just remove the passive and force us into the mediocre Night's Silence set.

I was excited until I saw that change.

Blacksheepart · April 2016

No, adding sunlight damage would cut into playtime for Cyrodiil players, the time changes as well as the weather and Cyrodiil players have enough to worry about besides PVE 'time'. While the nurf to the speed (which in PTS it doesn't work even in stage 4 it's broke and you sneak regular anyways)has enough con's, to be honest if they kept the speed the way it was and keep the buffs they just put it vampire would finally be balanced.

ParaNostram · April 2016

ShadowHvo wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

Oh now it's different opinions and not a headcannon? Which is it, is my argument to be dismissed as nonsense or is it an opinion held by a number of people?

An opinion and a headcanon is but the same.

headcanon. Noun. (uncountable) (fandom slang) Elements and interpretations of a fictional universe accepted by an individual fan, but not found within or supported by the official canon.

Nope, calling it headcanon is inherently dismissive, as headcanons are not supported by official canon. You're basically saying I'm pulling it all out of my ass.

And yet, you're, when you make a statement such as it being incomplete. That is entirely your opinion spawned from your headcanon of how big a skill-line must be, or otherwise how many skills the vampire should possess.

The fact of the matter is: Its not for you to decide, its for ZoS to decide how big each skill-line is. We have skill-lines with 6 actives, 5 actives, 3 active, 2 active, 1 active and a whole 0 active abilities. Vampirism is right in the middle with 3 active abilities, and a whole lot of passives.

You claim that the werewolf abilities all count as active, despite that 5 require a prerequisit of the ultimate being activated and upheld, where the vampires has no such restrictions with their three abilities, of which they can mix and match as they please, and yet.. the werewolf is locked, completely. They're not comparable, at least not properly, because they do not share the same context of use.

Werewolf only had 2 abilities as well to begin with, yet they were given three more to fill up the werewolf bar, because they literally had no other option. Vampires can mix and match, Werewolves cannot.

I will say what I said before, it is entirely your opinion spawned from your headcanon of how it should be. ZoS has given us a complete skill-line with 3 active abilities and 6 passives, and that is what we have ingame.

Head cannons are not mechanics based, opinions and ideas of how games should play are mechanically based.

Now then, to say Razum'Dar was the real power behind the throne and Ayrenn was just a puppet of his Khajiiti shadow empire? That's a headcanon. To say "the game would be better if we added to this mechanic//feature" is offering feedback, an opinion.

I never thought I would have to explain that. Wow. I have to reevaluate my view of humanity now, thank you.

And yet, it is your opinion whenever that headcanon is true or not.

You don't quite seem to grasp it, do you? A headcanon is an idea or opinion of another medium. It is your opinion whenever a headcanon is real, or not. You can twist and bend it in as many ways as you want to. Matter of fact is, is that it doesn't make you any less right about vampirism being incomplete, because as I said, it is purely your opinion based on your own headcanon of how skill-lines are supposed to be shaped.

But I guess you can just keep ignoring my points, its cool, I shall answer you again tomorrow when I awake from my slumber.

Look who's calling the kettle black buddy boy. I offered a definition of headcanon, an example of headcanon, and you still call commenting on mechanics a headcanon. Where in the flying *** has that ever been a thing? You're eagerness to dismiss anything I say is telling of how weak your argument is.

Putting you on ignore, I've lost enough brain cells explaining simple things to you.

Uriel_Nocturne · April 2016

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Just read the patch notes.

Vampire are still going to suck... So, I'll probably be curing five Vampires tonight.

It's like they read none of the feedback from all the times they've gimped Vampires...

So, yeah...

I read the patch notes for Vamps a couple more times before making my final decision. The Vampire gimping still continues. Which is sad, I do love playing Vampires in my Elder Scrolls games, but these changes are not helping Vampires in any way.

I understand that Vampirism is a "curse". The negatives are supposed to be severe. But those negatives (by Lore) are offset by fantastic powers and abilities. With the way Zeni has been working the Vampires; we have the negatives, but there are no fantastic powers to offset the negatives.

So, I cured five Vampires last night. Very simply, they'll survive much better as their normal Dunmer selves.

I might try Vampires again if Zeni can get their heads out of their collective butts on this issue.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO · April 2016

I like the WW as he is, just that FRIKKIN timer makes me despise the WW...

To me that alone, nothing else, kills the entire werewolf feeling for me...

phreatophile · April 2016

Reading that discussion was giving me a headcannon.

MornaBaine · April 2016

phreatophile wrote: »

You didn't think they would have this scheme of passives coming and going by stage actually working. The were bang on at launch where death or changing zones would kill the passives and some of them didn't work at all.

For the record, this change to the stage mechanics is a step in the right direction. That said, its a repair job, the presentation of vampirism in ESO on live is awful.

I get that in RP you don't care about the meta. Some of us do though. What they are sending to PTS is all the same useless skills so no improvement really; none of the changes are enough to earn the actives any bar space. To have everything I currently have at stage one I will have to be in stage 4 = nerf. Sure health regen will be better, but so what, passive health regen matters almost not at all. Lower fire damage will be nice, but if you care about the lore, this is wrong. On the subject of lore, where is CC, disease, frost, and poison immnuity? Where is Vampiric Seduction, Dectect life, night vision, and Shadow's Embrace?

I'm glad the stage timers will be longer, I'm glad that I can get the extra regen without having to slot any of the garbage skills, I'm glad I can play without the fire damage debuff when I choose to. I'm annoyed that if I've fed my character, its a mortal with bad skin and worse active skills. I'm especially perturbed about loosing dark stalker, stealth is intolerable without it but I find running around consistently starved to be ridiculous and I'm not about to waste a set bonus on sneak speed.

They've done a lot right here, but Vampirism did not need another net nerf, that is what I'm unhappy about.

So ALL of this. SIGH. I so want all of these: CC, disease, frost, and poison immnuity? Where is Vampiric Seduction, Dectect life, night vision, and Shadow's Embrace

ParaNostram · April 2016

I think with the new life stealing buff added in the Dark Brotherhood, they should change Savage Feeding to offer that on at least some attacks, maybe just light and heavy attacks or something. As it is, this passive is, well, worthless. I haven't put skill points into it since launch!

Blacksheepart · May 2016

It should be, the more starved you are the weaker you become not the other way around...