The second biggest thing harming player retention
lathbury
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Hi folks the biggest issue in the game atm is I feel is LAGGGG both in PVP and PVE we have had ZOS comment on this and ways they are adressing it. But the second biggest IMHO has been completely overlooked from ZOS and we have heard nothing addressing it.
It is the GRIND and RNG players have made multiple threads on the subject but here is my attempt at stating why its bad and possible solutions.
1. Outliers for those not particularly maths savvy like myself this means that for eg if you have 2 million people roll dice there will be some that roll nothing but 6's ie get drops they want but conversely there will be others who never roll a 6 (get said drop). This is bad because it limits players in testing gear or experimenting with builds it also means that we may have some amazing players out there not forfilling there potential not because they lack skill or a good rotation but because they are unlucky. How long will said players stick around?
2. Time the most precious of all our resources a pure RNG system favours those with more time and luck as above. it forces people to spend thier time not doing content they necessarily enjoy but rather farming content they aren't keen on instead of what they would prefer to be doing. in my case this is farming maelstom and vcoh I would rather be working on vmol or doing pvp. This also affects zos through streamers who wants to watch someone run the same thing over and over rather than watch them try new content builds etc. I would have made more vids etc this week but was busy farming content. Again how long are players gonna stick around farming content not to their taste.
3. Gear behind content type with maelstrom solo players may love the place but for me group content is what I enjoy but the gear here is BIS for most builds so we are forcing players to play content not aimed at them repeatedly. VMOL gear is a step in the right direction here but as other threads have pointed out even that isnt BIS for trials.
Soultions
The way I see it there are 6 potential solutions :-
1) A smart RNG system whereby the longer you run something without a particular drop the more likely it becomes on the loot table.
2) A token system
3)Trait change via crafting
4) Have places like maelstrom and dsa drop not weapons but glyphs to apply to weapons
5)Increase drops overall
6)Remove the amount of bound gear like scathing etc
So that's my 2 cents would like to hear the communities thoughts and maybe a reply from the devs @ZOS_GinaBruno
Edited by lathbury on May 1, 2016 2:39PM It is the GRIND and RNG players have made multiple threads on the subject but here is my attempt at stating why its bad and possible solutions.
1. Outliers for those not particularly maths savvy like myself this means that for eg if you have 2 million people roll dice there will be some that roll nothing but 6's ie get drops they want but conversely there will be others who never roll a 6 (get said drop). This is bad because it limits players in testing gear or experimenting with builds it also means that we may have some amazing players out there not forfilling there potential not because they lack skill or a good rotation but because they are unlucky. How long will said players stick around?
2. Time the most precious of all our resources a pure RNG system favours those with more time and luck as above. it forces people to spend thier time not doing content they necessarily enjoy but rather farming content they aren't keen on instead of what they would prefer to be doing. in my case this is farming maelstom and vcoh I would rather be working on vmol or doing pvp. This also affects zos through streamers who wants to watch someone run the same thing over and over rather than watch them try new content builds etc. I would have made more vids etc this week but was busy farming content. Again how long are players gonna stick around farming content not to their taste.
3. Gear behind content type with maelstrom solo players may love the place but for me group content is what I enjoy but the gear here is BIS for most builds so we are forcing players to play content not aimed at them repeatedly. VMOL gear is a step in the right direction here but as other threads have pointed out even that isnt BIS for trials.
Soultions
The way I see it there are 6 potential solutions :-
1) A smart RNG system whereby the longer you run something without a particular drop the more likely it becomes on the loot table.
2) A token system
3)Trait change via crafting
4) Have places like maelstrom and dsa drop not weapons but glyphs to apply to weapons
5)Increase drops overall
6)Remove the amount of bound gear like scathing etc
So that's my 2 cents would like to hear the communities thoughts and maybe a reply from the devs @ZOS_GinaBruno
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JamilaRaj✭✭✭✭✭
✭But you can not just replace The Grind and RNG! These are proven features that can be easily mistaken for content by players, developers and execs alike, easy to add, which is invaluable if "new content" is to be released at set, fast rate, and easy to monetize. Even if you managed to replace one or another with some actual fun content, how would you then convince players to pay to skip it?
Please do not make silly suggestions!Edited by JamilaRaj on May 1, 2016 7:12PM8 -
Shadowfx1970✭✭✭If you want something in life you have to work for it and whether you get it or not depends on how much you want it and what you are willing to do to achieve it such as time and determination.
If everything was easy there would be no sense of accomplishment if you got everything you wanted without any of the work the game would get very dull very quickly.
There are also other things to take into consideration like the economy if everyone could easily obtain items those items which are currently rare or hard to obtain they would have no value.
Lag, however, can be affected by so many different things both at the games end, the gamers end and everything in between so with tech changing as quickly as it does it's not as easy to address as just flicking a switch, gamers today want great graphics and effects, vast areas to explore, larger variety of challenges etc.
Implementing all these things whilst addressing issues created by exploiters and bots is not an easy task either, some game engines handle one side well but leave the other side lacking and vice versa, getting a true balance is impossible as you can't make everyone happy, so just like in life you have to take the good with the bad.
To speak specifically on the items you mentioned the RNG is pretty smart to make it smarter would take more processing power which in turn would create more instances of lag.
Trait changes via crafting I think is a good idea, you could create gear with training to start then change to explore to gain more XP and then to divines or whatever once you reached max, there are some changes coming to traits in the next patch that sort of deal with some of those issues but not to the extent of being able to change traits on gear.
I think a lot of enchanters would be upset if everyone just did Maelstrom to get their enchants.
No, I think the drops are good enough as they are, however, better rewards for achieving things in the game could be addressed.
Gear that's bound to an account is fine better than some games whereby the gear is bound to a character.I went outside once, the graphics were awesome but the gameplay sucked4 -
RedRoomGaming✭✭✭Shadowfx1970 wrote: »
I think a lot of enchanters would be upset if everyone just did Maelstrom to get their enchants.
No, I think the drops are good enough as they are, however, better rewards for achieving things in the game could be addressed.
PS4 Eu Server- Stampler - RedRoomGaming - V16
- Mageblade - Beard Of Molag - v3
- High Elf Sorc - Man Of Potato - V16
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timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I am okay with all of those except number 6. I think some limited amount of bound gear needs to always be in the game, but there definitely needs to be more unbound gear in PvE.V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)0 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lag, is an issue yes .
Grinding + RNG .... Uhm welcome to mmo'sLag, is an issue yes .
Grinding + RNG .... Uhm welcome to mmo's
Agree on lag.
Agree on RNG
Grind -? Unless you're racing to cap CP and skipping all vet content, what grind....just do all the 1400+++ quests-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5011 -
lathbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭Shadowfx1970 wrote: »If you want something in life you have to work for it and whether you get it or not depends on how much you want it and what you are willing to do to achieve it such as time and determination.
.
please read my point about outliers there will be with a true rng sytem people who no matter how many times they finish content do not get what they want for thier builds
other mmos have token sytems or other systems like greed type ones or smart rng so welcome to mmo's is a fallacy the only mmo's with comparable gear rng/grind are korean grinders if I wanted that i would play oneLag, is an issue yes .
Grinding + RNG .... Uhm welcome to mmo's
Edited by lathbury on May 1, 2016 4:48PM1 -
Reevster✭✭✭✭✭Ya its a MMO , if there wasn't a grind everyone would be done playing in a week and well, that wouldn't be a good long term strategy for a gaming company thats needs to make a profit to survive / make more content etc etc.
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lathbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Lag, is an issue yes .
Grinding + RNG .... Uhm welcome to mmo'sLag, is an issue yes .
Grinding + RNG .... Uhm welcome to mmo's
Agree on lag.
Agree on RNG
Grind -? Unless you're racing to cap CP and skipping all vet content, what grind....just do all the 1400+++ quests
read the op refering to the gear grind0 -
lathbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭RedRoomGaming wrote: »Shadowfx1970 wrote: »
I think a lot of enchanters would be upset if everyone just did Maelstrom to get their enchants.
No, I think the drops are good enough as they are, however, better rewards for achieving things in the game could be addressed.
im refering to maelstrom enchants instead of dropping a defending ice staff it could drop maelostrom staff enchant to be applied to any staff you like1 -
lathbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ya its a MMO , if there wasn't a grind everyone would be done playing in a week and well, that wouldn't be a good long term strategy for a gaming company thats needs to make a profit to survive / make more content etc etc.
A long term strategy is to make a system that means some players due to outliers and probablity means they will never get a reward for completing content? seems a bad long term strategy to me.Edited by lathbury on May 1, 2016 4:55PM1 -
Shadowfx1970✭✭✭Shadowfx1970 wrote: »If you want something in life you have to work for it and whether you get it or not depends on how much you want it and what you are willing to do to achieve it such as time and determination.
.
please read my point about outliers there will be with a true rng sytem people who no matter how many times they finish content do not get what they want for thier builds
other mmos have token sytems or other systems like greed type ones or smart rng so welcome to mmo's is a fallacy the only mmo's with comparable gear rng/grind are korean grinders if I wanted that i would play oneLag, is an issue yes .
Grinding + RNG .... Uhm welcome to mmo's
I did read it but have never come across the problem myself, I think there will always be items in games that some people get and others don't as I mentioned about the economy if everything was easily achievable those items wouldn't have value, of course. There is nothing nicer than getting an item others haven't been able to get it's one of the driving factors that keep people playing, but those that can't get one thing should have a better chance to obtain something else so in that respect I'll agree.
It's also another point to an MMO where people get together in guilds to share resources.
Edited by Shadowfx1970 on May 1, 2016 4:58PMI went outside once, the graphics were awesome but the gameplay sucked1 -
lathbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭Shadowfx1970 wrote: »Shadowfx1970 wrote: »If you want something in life you have to work for it and whether you get it or not depends on how much you want it and what you are willing to do to achieve it such as time and determination.
.
please read my point about outliers there will be with a true rng sytem people who no matter how many times they finish content do not get what they want for thier builds
other mmos have token sytems or other systems like greed type ones or smart rng so welcome to mmo's is a fallacy the only mmo's with comparable gear rng/grind are korean grinders if I wanted that i would play oneLag, is an issue yes .
Grinding + RNG .... Uhm welcome to mmo's
I did read it but have never come across the problem myself, I think there will always be items in games that some people get and others don't as I mentioned about the economy if everything was easily achievable those items wouldn't have value, of course. There is nothing nicer than getting an item others haven't been able to get it's one of the driving factors that keep people playing, but those that can't get one thing should have a better chance to obtain something else so in that respect I'll agree.
google the term outliers with regards to probability. whether you have experience of this or not its a mathematical fact. should there be best in slot gear that is unobtainable to players based on luck? is running content over and over again for no reward good for the game long term? the value thing is another fallacy as these BIS items are bound.Edited by lathbury on May 1, 2016 4:59PM1 -
lathbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭Shadowfx1970 wrote: »It's also another point to an MMO where people get together in guilds to share resources.
enlighten me how do I share my sharpened maelstrom bow that I got on my second run with my friend still looking for 1 on his 80th? I would love to know as i rarely use my stam character prefer my mag bladeEdited by lathbury on May 1, 2016 5:07PM2 -
RedRoomGaming✭✭✭RedRoomGaming wrote: »Shadowfx1970 wrote: »
I think a lot of enchanters would be upset if everyone just did Maelstrom to get their enchants.
No, I think the drops are good enough as they are, however, better rewards for achieving things in the game could be addressed.
im refering to maelstrom enchants instead of dropping a defending ice staff it could drop maelostrom staff enchant to be applied to any staff you like
You mean trait then? Enchanting is runes and glyphs the defending etc is traits. Yes it would be amazing if you could change traits.PS4 Eu Server- Stampler - RedRoomGaming - V16
- Mageblade - Beard Of Molag - v3
- High Elf Sorc - Man Of Potato - V16
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lathbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭RedRoomGaming wrote: »RedRoomGaming wrote: »Shadowfx1970 wrote: »
I think a lot of enchanters would be upset if everyone just did Maelstrom to get their enchants.
No, I think the drops are good enough as they are, however, better rewards for achieving things in the game could be addressed.
im refering to maelstrom enchants instead of dropping a defending ice staff it could drop maelostrom staff enchant to be applied to any staff you like
You mean trait then? Enchanting is runes and glyphs the defending etc is traits. Yes it would be amazing if you could change traits.
no i mean enchant the thing that makes maelstrom things special is the ENCHANT2 -
Shadowfx1970✭✭✭Shadowfx1970 wrote: »It's also another point to an MMO where people get together in guilds to share resources.
enlighten me how do I share my sharpened maelstrom bow that I got on my second run with my friend still looking for 1 on his 80th? I would love to know as i rarely use my stam character prefer my mag blade
Well on bound items that's obviously not an option, but if you can't get the item you want perhaps trying a different build with items you have obtained, or perhaps do it another 80 times then of course, a new arena arrives and there is other gear you may want and the Maelstrom gear becomes obsolete.
It's just one of those facts in life you can't have everything you want all the time sometimes you just have to make do, as the old saying goes if life hands you lemons make lemonade and whilst it can be disappointing it can also lead you to discovering something even more fun like playing a different way.I went outside once, the graphics were awesome but the gameplay sucked0 -
vyrusb23✭✭✭✭✭Hi folks the biggest issue in the game atm is I feel is LAGGGG both in PVP and PVE we have had ZOS comment on this and ways they are adressing it. But the second biggest IMHO has been completely overlooked from ZOS and we have heard nothing addressing it.
It is the GRIND and RNG players have made multiple threads on the subject but here is my attempt at stating why its bad and possible solutions.
1. Outliers for those not particularly maths savvy like myself this means that for eg if you have 2 million people roll dice there will be some that roll nothing but 6's ie get drops they want but conversely there will be others who never roll a 6 (get said drop). This is bad because it limits players in testing gear or experimenting with builds it also means that we may have some amazing players out there not forfilling there potential not because they lack skill or a good rotation but because they are unlucky. How long will said players stick around?
2. Time the most precious of all our resources a pure RNG system favours those with more time and luck as above. it forces people to spend thier time not doing content they necessarily enjoy but rather farming content they aren't keen on instead of what they would prefer to be doing. in my case this is farming maelstom and vcoh I would rather be working on vmol or doing pvp. This also affects zos through streamers who wants to watch someone run the same thing over and over rather than watch them try new content builds etc. I would have made more vids etc this week but was busy farming content. Again how long are players gonna stick around farming content not to their taste.
3. Gear behind content type with maelstrom solo players may love the place but for me group content is what I enjoy but the gear here is BIS for most builds so we are forcing players to play content not aimed at them repeatedly. VMOL gear is a step in the right direction here but as other threads have pointed out even that isnt BIS for trials.
Soultions
The way I see it there are 6 potential solutions :-
1) A smart RNG system whereby the longer you run something without a particular drop the more likely it becomes on the loot table.
2) A token system
3)Trait change via crafting
4) Have places like maelstrom and dsa drop not weapons but glyphs to apply to weapons
5)Increase drops overall
6)Remove the amount of bound gear like scathing etc
So that's my 2 cents would like to hear the communities thoughts and maybe a reply from the devs @ZOS_GinaBruno
Didn't you hear? They're getting rid of vet levels. No more grind.
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lathbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭Shadowfx1970 wrote: »Shadowfx1970 wrote: »It's also another point to an MMO where people get together in guilds to share resources.
enlighten me how do I share my sharpened maelstrom bow that I got on my second run with my friend still looking for 1 on his 80th? I would love to know as i rarely use my stam character prefer my mag blade
Well on bound items that's obviously not an option, but if you can't get the item you want perhaps trying a different build with items you have obtained, or perhaps do it another 80 times then of course, a new arena arrives and there is other gear you may want and the Maelstrom gear becomes obsolete.
It's just one of those facts in life you can't have everything you want all the time sometimes you just have to make do, as the old saying goes if life hands you lemons make lemonade and whilst it can be disappointing it can also lead you to discovering something even more fun like playing a different way.
yeah and I have done im using my stam build more after dropping the bow but this is me playing a playstyle i would rather not or continuing to run content i would rather not in the hopes I'm not the one guy who can never get a staff. Is this not off putting for players would ZOS rather not have them playing content they prefer or testing new builds etc maing videos or otherwise participating in the community?
Edited by lathbury on May 1, 2016 5:23PM1 -
lathbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hi folks the biggest issue in the game atm is I feel is LAGGGG both in PVP and PVE we have had ZOS comment on this and ways they are adressing it. But the second biggest IMHO has been completely overlooked from ZOS and we have heard nothing addressing it.
It is the GRIND and RNG players have made multiple threads on the subject but here is my attempt at stating why its bad and possible solutions.
1. Outliers for those not particularly maths savvy like myself this means that for eg if you have 2 million people roll dice there will be some that roll nothing but 6's ie get drops they want but conversely there will be others who never roll a 6 (get said drop). This is bad because it limits players in testing gear or experimenting with builds it also means that we may have some amazing players out there not forfilling there potential not because they lack skill or a good rotation but because they are unlucky. How long will said players stick around?
2. Time the most precious of all our resources a pure RNG system favours those with more time and luck as above. it forces people to spend thier time not doing content they necessarily enjoy but rather farming content they aren't keen on instead of what they would prefer to be doing. in my case this is farming maelstom and vcoh I would rather be working on vmol or doing pvp. This also affects zos through streamers who wants to watch someone run the same thing over and over rather than watch them try new content builds etc. I would have made more vids etc this week but was busy farming content. Again how long are players gonna stick around farming content not to their taste.
3. Gear behind content type with maelstrom solo players may love the place but for me group content is what I enjoy but the gear here is BIS for most builds so we are forcing players to play content not aimed at them repeatedly. VMOL gear is a step in the right direction here but as other threads have pointed out even that isnt BIS for trials.
Soultions
The way I see it there are 6 potential solutions :-
1) A smart RNG system whereby the longer you run something without a particular drop the more likely it becomes on the loot table.
2) A token system
3)Trait change via crafting
4) Have places like maelstrom and dsa drop not weapons but glyphs to apply to weapons
5)Increase drops overall
6)Remove the amount of bound gear like scathing etc
So that's my 2 cents would like to hear the communities thoughts and maybe a reply from the devs @ZOS_GinaBruno
Didn't you hear? They're getting rid of vet levels. No more grind.
hows that affect the gear grind for sets such as spell power cure, scathing mage, divines monster helms maelstrom gear etc?
Edited by lathbury on May 1, 2016 5:25PM2 -
Rune_Relic✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hi folks the biggest issue in the game atm is I feel is LAGGGG both in PVP and PVE we have had ZOS comment on this and ways they are adressing it. But the second biggest IMHO has been completely overlooked from ZOS and we have heard nothing addressing it.
It is the GRIND and RNG players have made multiple threads on the subject but here is my attempt at stating why its bad and possible solutions.
1. Outliers for those not particularly maths savvy like myself this means that for eg if you have 2 million people roll dice there will be some that roll nothing but 6's ie get drops they want but conversely there will be others who never roll a 6 (get said drop). This is bad because it limits players in testing gear or experimenting with builds it also means that we may have some amazing players out there not forfilling there potential not because they lack skill or a good rotation but because they are unlucky. How long will said players stick around?
2. Time the most precious of all our resources a pure RNG system favours those with more time and luck as above. it forces people to spend thier time not doing content they necessarily enjoy but rather farming content they aren't keen on instead of what they would prefer to be doing. in my case this is farming maelstom and vcoh I would rather be working on vmol or doing pvp. This also affects zos through streamers who wants to watch someone run the same thing over and over rather than watch them try new content builds etc. I would have made more vids etc this week but was busy farming content. Again how long are players gonna stick around farming content not to their taste.
3. Gear behind content type with maelstrom solo players may love the place but for me group content is what I enjoy but the gear here is BIS for most builds so we are forcing players to play content not aimed at them repeatedly. VMOL gear is a step in the right direction here but as other threads have pointed out even that isnt BIS for trials.
Soultions
The way I see it there are 6 potential solutions :-
1) A smart RNG system whereby the longer you run something without a particular drop the more likely it becomes on the loot table.
2) A token system
3)Trait change via crafting
4) Have places like maelstrom and dsa drop not weapons but glyphs to apply to weapons
5)Increase drops overall
6)Remove the amount of bound gear like scathing etc
So that's my 2 cents would like to hear the communities thoughts and maybe a reply from the devs @ZOS_GinaBruno
I highlighted the main problem IMHO.
BIS = Vertical progression.
If there was no such thing as BIS just various equally valid options....
...there would be no compulsory reason to grind.
For BIS to exist simply means bad balancing.
The problems isnt that the best gear is only found in one location.
Its that the best gear exists.Edited by Rune_Relic on May 1, 2016 5:28PMAnything that can be exploited will be exploited0 -
bloodenragedb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭What i believe hurts player retention the most?
They change the skills of the classes drastically nearly every 'major' update
the min/max'ers do not want to reroll new character every update
the casual's would obvoiusly get sick of the constant change to their skills
even some pvp'ers just dont want to deal with it
stop changing skills, the war on balance is unwinnable, focus on content5 -
vyrusb23✭✭✭✭✭Hi folks the biggest issue in the game atm is I feel is LAGGGG both in PVP and PVE we have had ZOS comment on this and ways they are adressing it. But the second biggest IMHO has been completely overlooked from ZOS and we have heard nothing addressing it.
It is the GRIND and RNG players have made multiple threads on the subject but here is my attempt at stating why its bad and possible solutions.
1. Outliers for those not particularly maths savvy like myself this means that for eg if you have 2 million people roll dice there will be some that roll nothing but 6's ie get drops they want but conversely there will be others who never roll a 6 (get said drop). This is bad because it limits players in testing gear or experimenting with builds it also means that we may have some amazing players out there not forfilling there potential not because they lack skill or a good rotation but because they are unlucky. How long will said players stick around?
2. Time the most precious of all our resources a pure RNG system favours those with more time and luck as above. it forces people to spend thier time not doing content they necessarily enjoy but rather farming content they aren't keen on instead of what they would prefer to be doing. in my case this is farming maelstom and vcoh I would rather be working on vmol or doing pvp. This also affects zos through streamers who wants to watch someone run the same thing over and over rather than watch them try new content builds etc. I would have made more vids etc this week but was busy farming content. Again how long are players gonna stick around farming content not to their taste.
3. Gear behind content type with maelstrom solo players may love the place but for me group content is what I enjoy but the gear here is BIS for most builds so we are forcing players to play content not aimed at them repeatedly. VMOL gear is a step in the right direction here but as other threads have pointed out even that isnt BIS for trials.
Soultions
The way I see it there are 6 potential solutions :-
1) A smart RNG system whereby the longer you run something without a particular drop the more likely it becomes on the loot table.
2) A token system
3)Trait change via crafting
4) Have places like maelstrom and dsa drop not weapons but glyphs to apply to weapons
5)Increase drops overall
6)Remove the amount of bound gear like scathing etc
So that's my 2 cents would like to hear the communities thoughts and maybe a reply from the devs @ZOS_GinaBruno
Didn't you hear? They're getting rid of vet levels. No more grind.
hows that affect the gear grind for sets such as spell power cure, scathing mage, divines monster helms maelstrom gear etc?
I have no idea. It's supposed to get rid of the "grind."
Oooohhhhhh .... you're crying about RNG. Carry on.0 -
lathbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rune_Relic wrote: »Hi folks the biggest issue in the game atm is I feel is LAGGGG both in PVP and PVE we have had ZOS comment on this and ways they are adressing it. But the second biggest IMHO has been completely overlooked from ZOS and we have heard nothing addressing it.
It is the GRIND and RNG players have made multiple threads on the subject but here is my attempt at stating why its bad and possible solutions.
1. Outliers for those not particularly maths savvy like myself this means that for eg if you have 2 million people roll dice there will be some that roll nothing but 6's ie get drops they want but conversely there will be others who never roll a 6 (get said drop). This is bad because it limits players in testing gear or experimenting with builds it also means that we may have some amazing players out there not forfilling there potential not because they lack skill or a good rotation but because they are unlucky. How long will said players stick around?
2. Time the most precious of all our resources a pure RNG system favours those with more time and luck as above. it forces people to spend thier time not doing content they necessarily enjoy but rather farming content they aren't keen on instead of what they would prefer to be doing. in my case this is farming maelstom and vcoh I would rather be working on vmol or doing pvp. This also affects zos through streamers who wants to watch someone run the same thing over and over rather than watch them try new content builds etc. I would have made more vids etc this week but was busy farming content. Again how long are players gonna stick around farming content not to their taste.
3. Gear behind content type with maelstrom solo players may love the place but for me group content is what I enjoy but the gear here is BIS for most builds so we are forcing players to play content not aimed at them repeatedly. VMOL gear is a step in the right direction here but as other threads have pointed out even that isnt BIS for trials.
Soultions
The way I see it there are 6 potential solutions :-
1) A smart RNG system whereby the longer you run something without a particular drop the more likely it becomes on the loot table.
2) A token system
3)Trait change via crafting
4) Have places like maelstrom and dsa drop not weapons but glyphs to apply to weapons
5)Increase drops overall
6)Remove the amount of bound gear like scathing etc
So that's my 2 cents would like to hear the communities thoughts and maybe a reply from the devs @ZOS_GinaBruno
I highlighted the main problem IMHO.
BIS = Vertical progression.
If there was no such thing as BIS just various equally valid options....
...there would be no compulsory reason to grind.
For BIS to exist simply means bad balancing.
The problems isnt that the best gear is only found in one location.
Its that the best gear exists.
while im inclined to agree they use BIS gear as a way to sell dlc's so I think it will always exist in one form or another1 -
lathbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hi folks the biggest issue in the game atm is I feel is LAGGGG both in PVP and PVE we have had ZOS comment on this and ways they are adressing it. But the second biggest IMHO has been completely overlooked from ZOS and we have heard nothing addressing it.
It is the GRIND and RNG players have made multiple threads on the subject but here is my attempt at stating why its bad and possible solutions.
1. Outliers for those not particularly maths savvy like myself this means that for eg if you have 2 million people roll dice there will be some that roll nothing but 6's ie get drops they want but conversely there will be others who never roll a 6 (get said drop). This is bad because it limits players in testing gear or experimenting with builds it also means that we may have some amazing players out there not forfilling there potential not because they lack skill or a good rotation but because they are unlucky. How long will said players stick around?
2. Time the most precious of all our resources a pure RNG system favours those with more time and luck as above. it forces people to spend thier time not doing content they necessarily enjoy but rather farming content they aren't keen on instead of what they would prefer to be doing. in my case this is farming maelstom and vcoh I would rather be working on vmol or doing pvp. This also affects zos through streamers who wants to watch someone run the same thing over and over rather than watch them try new content builds etc. I would have made more vids etc this week but was busy farming content. Again how long are players gonna stick around farming content not to their taste.
3. Gear behind content type with maelstrom solo players may love the place but for me group content is what I enjoy but the gear here is BIS for most builds so we are forcing players to play content not aimed at them repeatedly. VMOL gear is a step in the right direction here but as other threads have pointed out even that isnt BIS for trials.
Soultions
The way I see it there are 6 potential solutions :-
1) A smart RNG system whereby the longer you run something without a particular drop the more likely it becomes on the loot table.
2) A token system
3)Trait change via crafting
4) Have places like maelstrom and dsa drop not weapons but glyphs to apply to weapons
5)Increase drops overall
6)Remove the amount of bound gear like scathing etc
So that's my 2 cents would like to hear the communities thoughts and maybe a reply from the devs @ZOS_GinaBruno
Didn't you hear? They're getting rid of vet levels. No more grind.
hows that affect the gear grind for sets such as spell power cure, scathing mage, divines monster helms maelstrom gear etc?
I have no idea. It's supposed to get rid of the "grind."
Oooohhhhhh .... you're crying about RNG. Carry on.
not just that I have a maelstrom bow sharpened how cool would it be if I had the enchant to put on any bow i like i love the look of the new assassins one the quiver doesnt look like a dwemer centurions ball bagEdited by lathbury on May 1, 2016 5:33PM0 -
Reevster✭✭✭✭✭Ya its a MMO , if there wasn't a grind everyone would be done playing in a week and well, that wouldn't be a good long term strategy for a gaming company thats needs to make a profit to survive / make more content etc etc.
A long term strategy is to make a system that means some players due to outliers and probablity means they will never get a reward for completing content? seems a bad long term strategy to me.
Players are still doing it though, seems to be working as intended lol.Edited by Reevster on May 1, 2016 5:35PM1 -
lathbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ya its a MMO , if there wasn't a grind everyone would be done playing in a week and well, that wouldn't be a good long term strategy for a gaming company thats needs to make a profit to survive / make more content etc etc.
A long term strategy is to make a system that means some players due to outliers and probablity means they will never get a reward for completing content? seems a bad long term strategy to me.
Players are still doing it though, seems to be working as intended lol.
i know as many people playing other games because of the grind as i do ones like myself participating in it so maybe not1 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm not sure what makes players leave or stay the most . I think in all games people get frustrated eventually with something and take a break or leave and find something new . If you look on the boards of other games , it's the same almost every where . Some places despite lag or long grinds just end up your home . This one did for me . I go on vacation now and then but always head back at some point . It's the people for me .0 -
Shadowfx1970✭✭✭Shadowfx1970 wrote: »Shadowfx1970 wrote: »It's also another point to an MMO where people get together in guilds to share resources.
enlighten me how do I share my sharpened maelstrom bow that I got on my second run with my friend still looking for 1 on his 80th? I would love to know as i rarely use my stam character prefer my mag blade
Well on bound items that's obviously not an option, but if you can't get the item you want perhaps trying a different build with items you have obtained, or perhaps do it another 80 times then of course, a new arena arrives and there is other gear you may want and the Maelstrom gear becomes obsolete.
It's just one of those facts in life you can't have everything you want all the time sometimes you just have to make do, as the old saying goes if life hands you lemons make lemonade and whilst it can be disappointing it can also lead you to discovering something even more fun like playing a different way.
yeah and I have done im using my stam build more after dropping the bow but this is me playing a playstyle i would rather not or continuing to run content i would rather not in the hopes I'm not the one guy who can never get a staff. Is this not off putting for players would ZOS rather not have them playing content they prefer or testing new builds etc maing videos or otherwise participating in the community?
Well I don't think it's off-putting for everyone and of course, there is always the PTS if you want to test out different things I know it's not the solution you are looking for but as I said before whatever ZOS do they will never make everyone happy in a perfect world they could cater for every individual's needs but then they would have to have more staff than players and that wouldn't be a viable business model.I went outside once, the graphics were awesome but the gameplay sucked0
