Silver Leash - Why another gap closer?

GCVDJ11T · April 2016

@ZOS_Finn , @ZOS_RichLambert, @ZOS_GinaBruno

Guys we are trying to figure out why the change to Silver Leash to add another gap closer?

Silver leash at least gave us the ability to not have to depend on a DK for daedric and undead fights. We were excited for the first change not being exclusive to daedric and undead, however you made it yet anther gap closer. The only benefit is 28 meters vs the 22 meters. The damage is higher using the other abilities. The stun or slow is also a longer duration on the class specific abilites. I get that it is a stam gap closer but we already have stam gap closers (Crit Charge, Shield Charge).

PvE - If you are using a gap closer lets hope you are a tank. Unless you have some off the wall build you will have a onehand and shield.
PvP - I would have to cast this specific ability twice and I'm sure Sypher would then say thank you and hand me my A$$ for me giving him a heads up that I'm about to charge to him.

When you absolutely need something chained (*cough cough, aspect adds in VMoL) you have no choice but to have a DK. The first change would have at least made the skill another option to not have to be absolutely dependent on a specific class. Also forum trolls I'm not saying that this would be better than having a DK. I

the DK's in our guild, just making the case for another option.

Class Gap closers 22m:
Nightblade: Teleport Strike, Lotus Fan, Ambush
Templar: Focused Charge, Explosive Charge, Toppling Charge
DK: Empowering Chains
Sorc: Bolt Escape, Ball of Lightning, Streak

Weapon Gap Closers 22m
Two Hand: Critical Charge, Stampede, Critical Rush
1 hand & shield: Shield charge, Shield Assault, Invasion

If you can give us some insight on the thought behind the change it would really be appreciated!

Emma_Overload · April 2016

Non of those Sorc spells are real gap closers, so the new Silver Leash will be VERY welcome to Stam Sorcs who want to use Dual Wield.

Ahzek · April 2016

What @Emma_Eunjung said. Im excited for this change (even though the update seems disastrous for stam sorcs), even though a 1 klick gap closer would be certainly more powerfull, the silver leash has some unique properties that give it some great utility:
It has bigger range than other gap closers.
You can use the pull while rooted.
You can fly over certain terrain, as long as the Z axis difference isnt too big (similar to ambush).
It makes you feel like spiderman (-cat).

Derra · April 2016

Bolt escape is 15m and not a real gap closer.

GCVDJ11T · April 2016

Ahzek wrote: »

What @Emma_Eunjung said. Im excited for this change (even though the update seems disastrous for stam sorcs), even though a 1 klick gap closer would be certainly more powerfull, the silver leash has some unique properties that give it some great utility:
It has bigger range than other gap closers.
You can use the pull while rooted.
You can fly over certain terrain, as long as the Z axis difference isnt too big (similar to ambush).
It makes you feel like spiderman (-cat).

Well it is broken atm so there will be some changes to it anyway. There is another thread where two dudes took a keep without having to use siege. So your Z axis points and feeling like spiderman will most likely be going away.

GCVDJ11T · April 2016

Derra wrote: »

Bolt escape is 15m and not a real gap closer.

That is surprising that you say that. Most sorc's brag not only about the distance they can get to me but also away from me. Interesting.....

RoyJade · April 2016

Yep, silver leash will be really good for every other stam classes beside nightblade who don't want to run a two handed weapon.
But the idea of a non class grap is also a good idea. Why not asking ZOS to change one of tangling web' morph to a 18 meter grap with no damage ? It really fit the skill's skin and animation, and give everyone a weaker version of chain.

GCVDJ11T · April 2016

RoyJade wrote: »

Yep, silver leash will be really good for every other stam classes beside nightblade who don't want to run a two handed weapon.
But the idea of a non class grap is also a good idea. Why not asking ZOS to change one of tangling web' morph to a 18 meter grap with no damage ? It really fit the skill's skin and animation, and give everyone a weaker version of chain.

@RoyJade - that is a great idea, I'm on board with it!

RoyJade · April 2016

Gonna add it on my post when I'll post it so

It's will be a stamsorc thread, but I can easily add some stamina idea from non class abilities too.

Mojmir · April 2016

so instead of fixing gap closers,they added another. Smh

RoyJade · April 2016

It's a teleport gap closer, they want all gap closer to be teleport because they have a lot less problem. The main problem with gap closer is gone (actually), we just need a distant weapon to fix the pathfinding bug they sometimes have.
But I'm agree that they could work on a fix more actively.

Ajax_22 · April 2016

Streak and Chains need to be removed from that list. Streak is not a gap closer. It's a mobility tool that can, in some instances, be used as a gap closer, but it will never take the place of an actual gap closer. No one uses Chains as a gap closer in PvP. It's to unreliable, and gives your target CC immunity. Even with Silver Leash requiring two button presses it is now the best gap closer in the game other than Teleport Strike, and will probably be more used than any other gap closer by every class except Nightblades. Partly because it's the most reliable one, and partly because it's not tied to a specific weapon.

The only reason Silver Bolts can be used to get into a keep is because of it's range. If you watched the video of it the only reason they were able to get on the outer was because of some creative use of higher than normal terrain. ZOS needs to nerf the range on it by a few meters to prevent exploiting inside keeps, and make the skill a single button press to compensate.

I don't PvE very much, but I can see the use of having a pull ability for things like grouping trash better. Silver Bolts should not be changed to that though. Make one of morphs of Trapping Webs a pull ability since the skill was just changed, and pull abilities only have a use in PvE (see Chains issues above). It would also fit the animation and ability just as well as Silver Bolts.

Xsorus · April 2016

My only problem with it is the fact that it still has that *** mechanic of having to double tap it...Really..just make it a bloody gap closer and be done with it..in PvP I don't wanna have to push a button twice to do it.

GCVDJ11T · April 2016

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Streak and Chains need to be removed from that list. Streak is not a gap closer. It's a mobility tool that can, in some instances, be used as a gap closer, but it will never take the place of an actual gap closer. No one uses Chains as a gap closer in PvP. It's to unreliable, and gives your target CC immunity. Even with Silver Leash requiring two button presses it is now the best gap closer in the game other than Teleport Strike, and will probably be more used than any other gap closer by every class except Nightblades. Partly because it's the most reliable one, and partly because it's not tied to a specific weapon.

The only reason Silver Bolts can be used to get into a keep is because of it's range. If you watched the video of it the only reason they were able to get on the outer was because of some creative use of higher than normal terrain. ZOS needs to nerf the range on it by a few meters to prevent exploiting inside keeps, and make the skill a single button press to compensate.

I don't PvE very much, but I can see the use of having a pull ability for things like grouping trash better. Silver Bolts should not be changed to that though. Make one of morphs of Trapping Webs a pull ability since the skill was just changed, and pull abilities only have a use in PvE (see Chains issues above). It would also fit the animation and ability just as well as Silver Bolts.

In PvE chains were and are used as a gap closer. When targets such as the Flesh Abom in VICP and Kena in VWGT were CC immune, we could chain ourselves to them, easy peezy. I've seen Sorc tanks use streak as a gap closer. Just because its not used in PvP doesn't mean it not used in PvE.

I really stinks because when a skill is changed for PvP it most of the time impacts us in PvE. I'm sure it goes the other way as well. I wish some things worked in PvP and others in PvE

dsalter · April 2016

Xsorus wrote: »

My only problem with it is the fact that it still has that *** mechanic of having to double tap it...Really..just make it a bloody gap closer and be done with it..in PvP I don't wanna have to push a button twice to do it.

but this can be used to trick an enemy into popping up his defences early or bolting forward thinking your about to gap close but really you feinted him into doing something early, mind games if you will. for example:
guy is a DK, he's at range, i have a feeling he has battle standard and a stun ready for when someone runs to him, i fire the bolt, he thinks i'm gunna pull over to him. he drops banner ready, but nope i didnt pull the trigger to reel in, he's now just left himself open.

Recremen · April 2016

Mojmir wrote: »

so instead of fixing gap closers,they added another. Smh

@Mojmir Actually they have allegedly fixed most gap-closers this patch, gotta test them all though.

Mojmir · April 2016

Recremen wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

so instead of fixing gap closers,they added another. Smh

@Mojmir Actually they have allegedly fixed most gap-closers this patch, gotta test them all though.

Toppling is still bugging out,same with lotus fan.I know it's a path finding issue,but once again they're applying band aids when they should be reworking the skills.why even mess with a skill that was OK?

acw37162 · April 2016

The only class with a stamina based gap closer in the game is NB.

We need more options for gap closing to make different weapon combinations more viable.

I am extremely happy with this change. You can be DW/Bow build now and have a stamina based gap closer it's a very nice addition.

To be honest some more of the class specific gap closers should have a stamina option morph so your not pigeon holed into crit rush

Nallenil · May 2016

Sadly because everyone is so obsessed about ruining good and fun mechanics. Zos will ueber nerf the silver leash before it hits live. Keeps should be made impossible to capture without the outer and inner wall/gates destroyed. That would allow people to have fun using fun abilities to leap onto walls and keeps to fight. This would then add a new playstyle (leaping onto buildings/keeps vertically) without the possibility to just claim the keeps if the walls are not down.

Leaping vertically on structures or down is fun!

I can actually still leap on any keep on my dk using propeller shield (adds 8m range to my 20+m abilities) or simply by remembering the few overlooked spots where it is possible but I never use that to try to cap a flag. We need some variation in fighting.

The current leash on PTS is awesome. It is available to everyone! Change the rules needed for how keeps/scrolls get captured instead of removing fun mechanics from the game.

WolfingHour · May 2016

There goes my only (situational) pull as a pve NB tank.

A change due to PvP. Again!

acw37162 · May 2016

Maybe at least a few people would like to be able to run DW/Bow setups.

You know he three other classes that don't have stamina based gap closets.

Mettaricana · May 2016

They should Just allow gaps to jump keep walls but buff up the number of guards on a wall to help kick asses that jump over walls I still think we need seige ladders