Pelinals Aptitude

actosh · April 2016

Hey Guys/Girls,

while i like the base idea of this set, especially the 5 piece, it is still lackluste since your dmg also comes from your stam/mag pools.
To make it competitive, it should not only push spell weap dmg to the highest, but also the stam mag pool.

May look a bit op at first glance, but keep in mind that u still need 4 buffs to get any kindf of decent dmg, u need the spell/weap crit, major brutality and Major sorcery.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert u may wanna consider this.

Birdovic · April 2016

actosh wrote: »

Hey Guys/Girls,

while i like the base idea of this set, especially the 5 piece, it is still lackluste since your dmg also comes from your stam/mag pools.
To make it competitive, it should not only push spell weap dmg to the highest, but also the stam mag pool.

May look a bit op at first glance, but keep in mind that u still need 4 buffs to get any kindf of decent dmg, u need the spell/weap crit, major brutality and Major sorcery.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert u may wanna consider this.

I'd say lets wait.
We will see, what people come up with.
One thing I could imagine is making Overload stronger on a Stamina Sorcerer..

hrothbern · April 2016

actosh wrote: »

Hey Guys/Girls,

while i like the base idea of this set, especially the 5 piece, it is still lackluste since your dmg also comes from your stam/mag pools.
To make it competitive, it should not only push spell weap dmg to the highest, but also the stam mag pool.

May look a bit op at first glance, but keep in mind that u still need 4 buffs to get any kindf of decent dmg, u need the spell/weap crit, major brutality and Major sorcery.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert u may wanna consider this.

as idea to get a Hybrid Armor set, I think it is great.

But what you say @actosh , is right, there are also stat pool, Spell/Weapon Power, their buffs and Crit chance that go in the DPS/HPS output equation.

Perhaps the set should take 70-80% of the highest of any of them to apply on Stamina and Magicka abilities.

actosh · April 2016

hrothbern wrote: »

actosh wrote: »

Hey Guys/Girls,

while i like the base idea of this set, especially the 5 piece, it is still lackluste since your dmg also comes from your stam/mag pools.
To make it competitive, it should not only push spell weap dmg to the highest, but also the stam mag pool.

May look a bit op at first glance, but keep in mind that u still need 4 buffs to get any kindf of decent dmg, u need the spell/weap crit, major brutality and Major sorcery.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert u may wanna consider this.

as idea to get a Hybrid Armor set, I think it is great.

But what you say @actosh , is right, there are also stat pool, Spell/Weapon Power, their buffs and Crit chance that go in the DPS/HPS output equation.

Perhaps the set should take 70-80% of the highest of any of them to apply on Stamina and Magicka abilities.

True. The base idea like mentioned is really good, but to make it competetive they have to take the higher stat and apply it to the other stats as well, maybe 80%. But that would create nice stuff and hybrid would be competitive, not so strong as truly focused builds, but that way u could use really all skills for some reason that are in the game. Was mainly likin the se for my dk.

@Wrobel
How about a change to that set? Just needs to scale the pools as well. Can u implement that on the pts, so we could do a hands on test? I mean we still sacrifice a 5 piece with meh bonuses for it

. Or u get rid of dmg being also calculated from the ressourcepools. I know, qq incoming ^^.

hrothbern · April 2016

actosh wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

actosh wrote: »

Hey Guys/Girls,

while i like the base idea of this set, especially the 5 piece, it is still lackluste since your dmg also comes from your stam/mag pools.
To make it competitive, it should not only push spell weap dmg to the highest, but also the stam mag pool.

May look a bit op at first glance, but keep in mind that u still need 4 buffs to get any kindf of decent dmg, u need the spell/weap crit, major brutality and Major sorcery.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert u may wanna consider this.

as idea to get a Hybrid Armor set, I think it is great.

But what you say @actosh , is right, there are also stat pool, Spell/Weapon Power, their buffs and Crit chance that go in the DPS/HPS output equation.

Perhaps the set should take 70-80% of the highest of any of them to apply on Stamina and Magicka abilities.

True. The base idea like mentioned is really good, but to make it competetive they have to take the higher stat and apply it to the other stats as well, maybe 80%. But that would create nice stuff and hybrid would be competitive, not so strong as truly focused builds, but that way u could use really all skills for some reason that are in the game. Was mainly likin the se for my dk.

@Wrobel
How about a change to that set? Just needs to scale the pools as well. Can u implement that on the pts, so we could do a hands on test? I mean we still sacrifice a 5 piece with meh bonuses for it . Or u get rid of dmg being also calculated from the ressourcepools. I know, qq incoming ^^.

The more I think about the Hybrid effect of this set, the more I like the idea

Doing the Math for ZOS, to get a "viable-not OP" percentage will involve some number crunching, but so what.... this will many Hybrid lovers very happy !!! and should be worth the effort.

Of course there will be some very niche builds that benefit more from this than the more default Math. And that is what we will experience then in PTS and/or later on live. And perhaps some after tweaking of that percentage will have to be done.

But again... so what.... this Hybrid is about a grand idea

Liofa · April 2016

I think it should be one of the 2 things . Either make Resource pools even or make damage values even . I am sure doing both will break the game balance . Imagine shield stacking stamina builds roll dodging forever . Imagine stamina templars with Radiant Destruction . I don't think it would be very nice . There are 2 options and only one of them should be taken .

1- Damage values
Leaving the set as is .

2- Resource pools
Increasing the number of times you can use the skills . You will still get your damage buffed but not as much like in option 1 .

Or , you know , remove resource scaling and bring back soft caps ^^

actosh · April 2016

Shield Stacking dodgerolling stam chars are common in next patch thanks to boneshield & well fitted ^^

While maintaining extreme high dmg, and all of it without this set ^^

The Uninvited · April 2016

I think it would work nice on a magicka pvp build with sword/board + dual wield. Maybe in 5/5 combination with Vicious Death?

BurritoESO · April 2016

Hybrid builds shouldn't be able to stack massive amounts of both stats, but instead have their stats equally split apart. If we had people running around with 3k wep/spell dmg and 30k stam/mag pools it would be OP. You have to sacrifice massive stats to split them equally as a hybrid and that's the way it should be

Xael · April 2016

.

r.jan_emailb16_ESO · April 2016

Xael wrote: »

This set is really bad. It should be renamed to "I'm going to suck now" or "watch me suck now", WMSN for short.

With this set you have to choose which form of armor to take (L/M/H) and then divide it up so you can get some of the passives from their skill lines. Best case scenario you choose 5 pieces of one so you can get the 5pc passive bonuses (light has 2, Concentration and Prodigy).

You still need to slot skills that give Major Savagery and Major Prophecy, or you're a DK running Flames of Oblivion.
Your glyphs are going to be bad. Your CP is going to be bad as you will need to split between Mooncalf/Arcanist, Warlord/Magician, Mighty/Elemental Expert, and Elfborn/Precise Strikes.

There is absolutely no reason to use this set as you can't even be competitive due to sub-par performance. This is true for PvP and PvE.

All of my Magicka based characters have over 43k Magicka, 50+ Spell Crit, and 4kish achievable Spell Damage.
All of my Stamina based characters have over 33k Stamina, 50+ Crit and 4k+ish Weapon Damage with 2kish Stamina Regen.
These are just my PvP stats, PvE would be even better.

If you want to be competitive you will neeed similar numbers. You will not achieve this using this set.

^ I tend to agree.

This set lowers your average damage output, which is bad for PvE and has also no place in the current PvP meta. You don't even gain utility (don't need damage on utility skills - the set's effect on regen would be much better for this). All you do is gimp yourself.

Emma_Overload · April 2016

Xael wrote: »

This set is really bad. It should be renamed to "I'm going to suck now" or "watch me suck now", WMSN for short.

With this set you have to choose which form of armor to take (L/M/H) and then divide it up so you can get some of the passives from their skill lines. Best case scenario you choose 5 pieces of one so you can get the 5pc passive bonuses (light has 2, Concentration and Prodigy).

You still need to slot skills that give Major Savagery and Major Prophecy, or you're a DK running Flames of Oblivion.
Your glyphs are going to be bad. Your CP is going to be bad as you will need to split between Mooncalf/Arcanist, Warlord/Magician, Mighty/Elemental Expert, and Elfborn/Precise Strikes.

There is absolutely no reason to use this set as you can't even be competitive due to sub-par performance. This is true for PvP and PvE.

All of my Magicka based characters have over 43k Magicka, 50+ Spell Crit, and 4kish achievable Spell Damage.
All of my Stamina based characters have over 33k Stamina, 50+ Crit and 4k+ish Weapon Damage with 2kish Stamina Regen.
These are just my PvP stats, PvE would be even better.

If you want to be competitive you will neeed similar numbers. You will not achieve this using this set.

I don't think the set is as bad as you say, but the results will depend greatly on what the theory crafter is trying to achieve. I agree that splitting CP and resources are still going to result in a weak "hybrid" build, but what about simply using the set to min-max a traditional spell power build?

Imagine if you substituted this set for Kagrenac's Hope, which I believe is the best set for PvP, although others may prefer Julianos or whatever. You'd be giving up 967 magicka and 224 spell power in exchange for 129 stamina regen and the opportunity to max weapon damage in place of spell power. I haven't done the math yet, but it wouldn't surprise me if you could more than make up that fior spell power deficit simply by enchanting your staff with a weapon power enchant and slotting Flawless Dawnbreaker as your Ultimate. Of course, all your jewelry enchants and set bonuses would have to be weapon power instead of spell power, but it could definitely work.

For Sorcerers in particular, this would be a HUGE advantage, because the Sorc could slot Critical Surge instead of Power Surge. That would make the Surge heals use the 60% multiplier instead of 40%... that's a 50% increase in Surge heal output!

Mumyo · April 2016

actosh wrote: »

Hey Guys/Girls,

while i like the base idea of this set, especially the 5 piece, it is still lackluste since your dmg also comes from your stam/mag pools.
To make it competitive, it should not only push spell weap dmg to the highest, but also the stam mag pool.

May look a bit op at first glance, but keep in mind that u still need 4 buffs to get any kindf of decent dmg, u need the spell/weap crit, major brutality and Major sorcery.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert u may wanna consider this.

Would be OP i can tell you that.
In Heavy armor u get both regens, add it up with engine guardian... As a Templar i additionally tested it with channeling focus and spammed the crap out of honor of the dead. My RD did allready hurt without big magicka pool and the heals were nice. I also didn't run out of magicka.

I think increasing that, you would totalle dominate everyone since u can rely on both ressources and hit like a truck with both of them.

Xael · April 2016

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Gottbeard · April 2016

Xael wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

This set is really bad. It should be renamed to "I'm going to suck now" or "watch me suck now", WMSN for short.

With this set you have to choose which form of armor to take (L/M/H) and then divide it up so you can get some of the passives from their skill lines. Best case scenario you choose 5 pieces of one so you can get the 5pc passive bonuses (light has 2, Concentration and Prodigy).

You still need to slot skills that give Major Savagery and Major Prophecy, or you're a DK running Flames of Oblivion.
Your glyphs are going to be bad. Your CP is going to be bad as you will need to split between Mooncalf/Arcanist, Warlord/Magician, Mighty/Elemental Expert, and Elfborn/Precise Strikes.

There is absolutely no reason to use this set as you can't even be competitive due to sub-par performance. This is true for PvP and PvE.

All of my Magicka based characters have over 43k Magicka, 50+ Spell Crit, and 4kish achievable Spell Damage.
All of my Stamina based characters have over 33k Stamina, 50+ Crit and 4k+ish Weapon Damage with 2kish Stamina Regen.
These are just my PvP stats, PvE would be even better.

If you want to be competitive you will neeed similar numbers. You will not achieve this using this set.

I don't think the set is as bad as you say, but the results will depend greatly on what the theory crafter is trying to achieve. I agree that splitting CP and resources are still going to result in a weak "hybrid" build, but what about simply using the set to min-max a traditional spell power build?

Imagine if you substituted this set for Kagrenac's Hope, which I believe is the best set for PvP, although others may prefer Julianos or whatever. You'd be giving up 967 magicka and 224 spell power in exchange for 129 stamina regen and the opportunity to max weapon damage in place of spell power. I haven't done the math yet, but it wouldn't surprise me if you could more than make up that fior spell power deficit simply by enchanting your staff with a weapon power enchant and slotting Flawless Dawnbreaker as your Ultimate. Of course, all your jewelry enchants and set bonuses would have to be weapon power instead of spell power, but it could definitely work.

For Sorcerers in particular, this would be a HUGE advantage, because the Sorc could slot Critical Surge instead of Power Surge. That would make the Surge heals use the 60% multiplier instead of 40%... that's a 50% increase in Surge heal output!

You don't think it's as bad as I say?
You split CP. This makes you below average.
You are missing the point about glyphs and resource pools. Weapon Damage and Spell Damage don't mean squat when your Magicka and Stamina are under 20k.

With a Heavy Armor build and tri-stat glyphs you have around 30k Health, 17-18k Stamina and Magicka. This is flat out terrible. If you decide to glyph straight Magicka or Stamina one will suffer and defeats the purpose of going hybrid in the first place.
Even if you successfully manage to get your Spell Damage/Weapon Damage your tooltip damage on abilities is going to be low due to low Magicka/Stamina pools.
Even your surge hypothesis is flawed by this. You will not heal for very much because your overall damage from said ability is going to be lower than normal and you are getting a % of that back as a heal.

Again, this set is bad.

You see the world through the eyes of a glass cannon so you will probably never get the value of this set. You describe characters that have a 7-8k power range on their main stat. These characters would on average have a default power lvl of 2-3k on their off stat. I happen to know from game play experience that healing needs a 5k minimum power level to start being effective. And damage needs a minimum of a 6k power level to be threatening. I can make a pelinals build that has a 6500 main stat power and a 5k off stat power. If you build your character right pelinals is viable.

DeadlyRecluse · April 2016

Gottbeard wrote: »

You see the world through the eyes of a glass cannon so you will probably never get the value of this set. You describe characters that have a 7-8k power range on their main stat. These characters would on average have a default power lvl of 2-3k on their off stat. I happen to know from game play experience that healing needs a 5k minimum power level to start being effective. And damage needs a minimum of a 6k power level to be threatening. I can make a pelinals build that has a 6500 main stat power and a 5k off stat power. If you build your character right pelinals is viable.

Heh, as soon as I saw this set, I though "This is a trap set for bad players. But Gottbeard will do something disgusting with it."

And here you are! Looking forward to seeing what you cook up.

Gottbeard · April 2016

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Gottbeard wrote: »

You see the world through the eyes of a glass cannon so you will probably never get the value of this set. You describe characters that have a 7-8k power range on their main stat. These characters would on average have a default power lvl of 2-3k on their off stat. I happen to know from game play experience that healing needs a 5k minimum power level to start being effective. And damage needs a minimum of a 6k power level to be threatening. I can make a pelinals build that has a 6500 main stat power and a 5k off stat power. If you build your character right pelinals is viable.

Heh, as soon as I saw this set, I though "This is a trap set for bad players. But Gottbeard will do something disgusting with it."

And here you are! Looking forward to seeing what you cook up.

Disgusting is a good description.

Minno · April 2016

Gottbeard wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Gottbeard wrote: »

You see the world through the eyes of a glass cannon so you will probably never get the value of this set. You describe characters that have a 7-8k power range on their main stat. These characters would on average have a default power lvl of 2-3k on their off stat. I happen to know from game play experience that healing needs a 5k minimum power level to start being effective. And damage needs a minimum of a 6k power level to be threatening. I can make a pelinals build that has a 6500 main stat power and a 5k off stat power. If you build your character right pelinals is viable.

Heh, as soon as I saw this set, I though "This is a trap set for bad players. But Gottbeard will do something disgusting with it."

And here you are! Looking forward to seeing what you cook up.

Disgusting is a good description.

I imagined he will be...quite...evil.

Erock25 · April 2016

Gottbeard wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

This set is really bad. It should be renamed to "I'm going to suck now" or "watch me suck now", WMSN for short.

With this set you have to choose which form of armor to take (L/M/H) and then divide it up so you can get some of the passives from their skill lines. Best case scenario you choose 5 pieces of one so you can get the 5pc passive bonuses (light has 2, Concentration and Prodigy).

You still need to slot skills that give Major Savagery and Major Prophecy, or you're a DK running Flames of Oblivion.
Your glyphs are going to be bad. Your CP is going to be bad as you will need to split between Mooncalf/Arcanist, Warlord/Magician, Mighty/Elemental Expert, and Elfborn/Precise Strikes.

There is absolutely no reason to use this set as you can't even be competitive due to sub-par performance. This is true for PvP and PvE.

All of my Magicka based characters have over 43k Magicka, 50+ Spell Crit, and 4kish achievable Spell Damage.
All of my Stamina based characters have over 33k Stamina, 50+ Crit and 4k+ish Weapon Damage with 2kish Stamina Regen.
These are just my PvP stats, PvE would be even better.

If you want to be competitive you will neeed similar numbers. You will not achieve this using this set.

I don't think the set is as bad as you say, but the results will depend greatly on what the theory crafter is trying to achieve. I agree that splitting CP and resources are still going to result in a weak "hybrid" build, but what about simply using the set to min-max a traditional spell power build?

Imagine if you substituted this set for Kagrenac's Hope, which I believe is the best set for PvP, although others may prefer Julianos or whatever. You'd be giving up 967 magicka and 224 spell power in exchange for 129 stamina regen and the opportunity to max weapon damage in place of spell power. I haven't done the math yet, but it wouldn't surprise me if you could more than make up that fior spell power deficit simply by enchanting your staff with a weapon power enchant and slotting Flawless Dawnbreaker as your Ultimate. Of course, all your jewelry enchants and set bonuses would have to be weapon power instead of spell power, but it could definitely work.

For Sorcerers in particular, this would be a HUGE advantage, because the Sorc could slot Critical Surge instead of Power Surge. That would make the Surge heals use the 60% multiplier instead of 40%... that's a 50% increase in Surge heal output!

You don't think it's as bad as I say?
You split CP. This makes you below average.
You are missing the point about glyphs and resource pools. Weapon Damage and Spell Damage don't mean squat when your Magicka and Stamina are under 20k.

With a Heavy Armor build and tri-stat glyphs you have around 30k Health, 17-18k Stamina and Magicka. This is flat out terrible. If you decide to glyph straight Magicka or Stamina one will suffer and defeats the purpose of going hybrid in the first place.
Even if you successfully manage to get your Spell Damage/Weapon Damage your tooltip damage on abilities is going to be low due to low Magicka/Stamina pools.
Even your surge hypothesis is flawed by this. You will not heal for very much because your overall damage from said ability is going to be lower than normal and you are getting a % of that back as a heal.

Again, this set is bad.

You see the world through the eyes of a glass cannon so you will probably never get the value of this set. You describe characters that have a 7-8k power range on their main stat. These characters would on average have a default power lvl of 2-3k on their off stat. I happen to know from game play experience that healing needs a 5k minimum power level to start being effective. And damage needs a minimum of a 6k power level to be threatening. I can make a pelinals build that has a 6500 main stat power and a 5k off stat power. If you build your character right pelinals is viable.

What's this power level figure you're referring to? It looks like a combination of weapon power and stam or spell power and magicka but what do you use to derive it?

dsalter · April 2016

if Crystal Frags can be procced from any stam ability, i'm making this set.

Birdovic · April 2016

How about a new suggestion:

Instead of :
"Both Weapondamage and Spelldamage become the highest of the two values"

we go with:
"If there is atleast a difference of 4000 Ressources between your Max Magicka and Max Stamina values, the cost of Magicka or Stamina Abilities is reduced by 33%, if it is the lower of both Values"

Examples:
Main Stat Max Magicka(atleast 4000 more than Stamina) = Stamina Abilties -33% cost
Main Stat Max Stamina(atleast 4000 more than Magicka) = Magicka Abilities -33% cost

Emma_Overload · April 2016

Xael wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

This set is really bad. It should be renamed to "I'm going to suck now" or "watch me suck now", WMSN for short.

With this set you have to choose which form of armor to take (L/M/H) and then divide it up so you can get some of the passives from their skill lines. Best case scenario you choose 5 pieces of one so you can get the 5pc passive bonuses (light has 2, Concentration and Prodigy).

You still need to slot skills that give Major Savagery and Major Prophecy, or you're a DK running Flames of Oblivion.
Your glyphs are going to be bad. Your CP is going to be bad as you will need to split between Mooncalf/Arcanist, Warlord/Magician, Mighty/Elemental Expert, and Elfborn/Precise Strikes.

There is absolutely no reason to use this set as you can't even be competitive due to sub-par performance. This is true for PvP and PvE.

All of my Magicka based characters have over 43k Magicka, 50+ Spell Crit, and 4kish achievable Spell Damage.
All of my Stamina based characters have over 33k Stamina, 50+ Crit and 4k+ish Weapon Damage with 2kish Stamina Regen.
These are just my PvP stats, PvE would be even better.

If you want to be competitive you will neeed similar numbers. You will not achieve this using this set.

I don't think the set is as bad as you say, but the results will depend greatly on what the theory crafter is trying to achieve. I agree that splitting CP and resources are still going to result in a weak "hybrid" build, but what about simply using the set to min-max a traditional spell power build?

Imagine if you substituted this set for Kagrenac's Hope, which I believe is the best set for PvP, although others may prefer Julianos or whatever. You'd be giving up 967 magicka and 224 spell power in exchange for 129 stamina regen and the opportunity to max weapon damage in place of spell power. I haven't done the math yet, but it wouldn't surprise me if you could more than make up that fior spell power deficit simply by enchanting your staff with a weapon power enchant and slotting Flawless Dawnbreaker as your Ultimate. Of course, all your jewelry enchants and set bonuses would have to be weapon power instead of spell power, but it could definitely work.

For Sorcerers in particular, this would be a HUGE advantage, because the Sorc could slot Critical Surge instead of Power Surge. That would make the Surge heals use the 60% multiplier instead of 40%... that's a 50% increase in Surge heal output!

You don't think it's as bad as I say?
You split CP. This makes you below average.
You are missing the point about glyphs and resource pools. Weapon Damage and Spell Damage don't mean squat when your Magicka and Stamina are under 20k.

With a Heavy Armor build and tri-stat glyphs you have around 30k Health, 17-18k Stamina and Magicka. This is flat out terrible. If you decide to glyph straight Magicka or Stamina one will suffer and defeats the purpose of going hybrid in the first place.
Even if you successfully manage to get your Spell Damage/Weapon Damage your tooltip damage on abilities is going to be low due to low Magicka/Stamina pools.
Even your surge hypothesis is flawed by this. You will not heal for very much because your overall damage from said ability is going to be lower than normal and you are getting a % of that back as a heal.

Again, this set is bad.

I don't think you understood my post. I'm not suggesting a "hybrid" build with split CP or resources. I'm merely suggesting a spell damage build that stacks weapon damage and uses Pelinal's to convert it to spell damage. You wouldn't have to change ANY of your CP passives, because Pelinal's automatically boosts your spell damage to match your stacked weapon damage. In this scenario, you would use your magicka spells to do damage as you normally do, and no passives or attribute allocations would need to be changed. I tested it on the PTS, and it really works.

dsalter · April 2016

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

How about a new suggestion:

Instead of :
"Both Weapondamage and Spelldamage become the highest of the two values"

we go with:
"If there is atleast a difference of 4000 Ressources between your Max Magicka and Max Stamina values, the cost of Magicka or Stamina Abilities is reduced by 33%, if it is the lower of both Values"

Examples:
Main Stat Max Magicka(atleast 4000 more than Stamina) = Stamina Abilties -33% cost
Main Stat Max Stamina(atleast 4000 more than Magicka) = Magicka Abilities -33% cost

thats actually pretty op, means you could vigourously use vigor with little punishment, altho it will be slightly weaker, it would give magicka another self heal with little issue, then theres things like silver shards, etc, stam and magicka costs are seperate for a reason

Birdovic · April 2016

dsalter wrote: »

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

How about a new suggestion:

Instead of :
"Both Weapondamage and Spelldamage become the highest of the two values"

we go with:
"If there is atleast a difference of 4000 Ressources between your Max Magicka and Max Stamina values, the cost of Magicka or Stamina Abilities is reduced by 33%, if it is the lower of both Values"

Examples:
Main Stat Max Magicka(atleast 4000 more than Stamina) = Stamina Abilties -33% cost
Main Stat Max Stamina(atleast 4000 more than Magicka) = Magicka Abilities -33% cost

thats actually pretty op, means you could vigourously use vigor with little punishment, altho it will be slightly weaker, it would give magicka another self heal with little issue, then theres things like silver shards, etc, stam and magicka costs are seperate for a reason

Well I just used some values to start with, ofc it doesnt have to be 33%.
Just wanted to deliver the idea

We could also use 10% or 20%, whatever keeps the game balance overall healthy.
Also I included the 4000 Ressource difference, so the "not-main-stat" stuff doesnt become too useful.
Its basically great for utility which doesnt rely on values like healing/damaging, more like for using CC's etc which usually cost too much but would be useful.

Gottbeard · April 2016

Erock25 wrote: »

Gottbeard wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

This set is really bad. It should be renamed to "I'm going to suck now" or "watch me suck now", WMSN for short.

With this set you have to choose which form of armor to take (L/M/H) and then divide it up so you can get some of the passives from their skill lines. Best case scenario you choose 5 pieces of one so you can get the 5pc passive bonuses (light has 2, Concentration and Prodigy).

You still need to slot skills that give Major Savagery and Major Prophecy, or you're a DK running Flames of Oblivion.
Your glyphs are going to be bad. Your CP is going to be bad as you will need to split between Mooncalf/Arcanist, Warlord/Magician, Mighty/Elemental Expert, and Elfborn/Precise Strikes.

There is absolutely no reason to use this set as you can't even be competitive due to sub-par performance. This is true for PvP and PvE.

All of my Magicka based characters have over 43k Magicka, 50+ Spell Crit, and 4kish achievable Spell Damage.
All of my Stamina based characters have over 33k Stamina, 50+ Crit and 4k+ish Weapon Damage with 2kish Stamina Regen.
These are just my PvP stats, PvE would be even better.

If you want to be competitive you will neeed similar numbers. You will not achieve this using this set.

I don't think the set is as bad as you say, but the results will depend greatly on what the theory crafter is trying to achieve. I agree that splitting CP and resources are still going to result in a weak "hybrid" build, but what about simply using the set to min-max a traditional spell power build?

Imagine if you substituted this set for Kagrenac's Hope, which I believe is the best set for PvP, although others may prefer Julianos or whatever. You'd be giving up 967 magicka and 224 spell power in exchange for 129 stamina regen and the opportunity to max weapon damage in place of spell power. I haven't done the math yet, but it wouldn't surprise me if you could more than make up that fior spell power deficit simply by enchanting your staff with a weapon power enchant and slotting Flawless Dawnbreaker as your Ultimate. Of course, all your jewelry enchants and set bonuses would have to be weapon power instead of spell power, but it could definitely work.

For Sorcerers in particular, this would be a HUGE advantage, because the Sorc could slot Critical Surge instead of Power Surge. That would make the Surge heals use the 60% multiplier instead of 40%... that's a 50% increase in Surge heal output!

You don't think it's as bad as I say?
You split CP. This makes you below average.
You are missing the point about glyphs and resource pools. Weapon Damage and Spell Damage don't mean squat when your Magicka and Stamina are under 20k.

With a Heavy Armor build and tri-stat glyphs you have around 30k Health, 17-18k Stamina and Magicka. This is flat out terrible. If you decide to glyph straight Magicka or Stamina one will suffer and defeats the purpose of going hybrid in the first place.
Even if you successfully manage to get your Spell Damage/Weapon Damage your tooltip damage on abilities is going to be low due to low Magicka/Stamina pools.
Even your surge hypothesis is flawed by this. You will not heal for very much because your overall damage from said ability is going to be lower than normal and you are getting a % of that back as a heal.

Again, this set is bad.

You see the world through the eyes of a glass cannon so you will probably never get the value of this set. You describe characters that have a 7-8k power range on their main stat. These characters would on average have a default power lvl of 2-3k on their off stat. I happen to know from game play experience that healing needs a 5k minimum power level to start being effective. And damage needs a minimum of a 6k power level to be threatening. I can make a pelinals build that has a 6500 main stat power and a 5k off stat power. If you build your character right pelinals is viable.

What's this power level figure you're referring to? It looks like a combination of weapon power and stam or spell power and magicka but what do you use to derive it?

Yep that is it exactly. 10 magicka is equal to 1 spell dmg roughly for calculating the scaling of skills. Instead of using this old equation to compare magick set bonuses to spell power set bonuses it can be used to translate the combined power into a character power stat for advanced comparisons. Works for Stam weapon dmg to.

Emma_Overload · April 2016

Erock25 wrote: »

Gottbeard wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

This set is really bad. It should be renamed to "I'm going to suck now" or "watch me suck now", WMSN for short.

With this set you have to choose which form of armor to take (L/M/H) and then divide it up so you can get some of the passives from their skill lines. Best case scenario you choose 5 pieces of one so you can get the 5pc passive bonuses (light has 2, Concentration and Prodigy).

You still need to slot skills that give Major Savagery and Major Prophecy, or you're a DK running Flames of Oblivion.
Your glyphs are going to be bad. Your CP is going to be bad as you will need to split between Mooncalf/Arcanist, Warlord/Magician, Mighty/Elemental Expert, and Elfborn/Precise Strikes.

There is absolutely no reason to use this set as you can't even be competitive due to sub-par performance. This is true for PvP and PvE.

All of my Magicka based characters have over 43k Magicka, 50+ Spell Crit, and 4kish achievable Spell Damage.
All of my Stamina based characters have over 33k Stamina, 50+ Crit and 4k+ish Weapon Damage with 2kish Stamina Regen.
These are just my PvP stats, PvE would be even better.

If you want to be competitive you will neeed similar numbers. You will not achieve this using this set.

I don't think the set is as bad as you say, but the results will depend greatly on what the theory crafter is trying to achieve. I agree that splitting CP and resources are still going to result in a weak "hybrid" build, but what about simply using the set to min-max a traditional spell power build?

Imagine if you substituted this set for Kagrenac's Hope, which I believe is the best set for PvP, although others may prefer Julianos or whatever. You'd be giving up 967 magicka and 224 spell power in exchange for 129 stamina regen and the opportunity to max weapon damage in place of spell power. I haven't done the math yet, but it wouldn't surprise me if you could more than make up that fior spell power deficit simply by enchanting your staff with a weapon power enchant and slotting Flawless Dawnbreaker as your Ultimate. Of course, all your jewelry enchants and set bonuses would have to be weapon power instead of spell power, but it could definitely work.

For Sorcerers in particular, this would be a HUGE advantage, because the Sorc could slot Critical Surge instead of Power Surge. That would make the Surge heals use the 60% multiplier instead of 40%... that's a 50% increase in Surge heal output!

You don't think it's as bad as I say?
You split CP. This makes you below average.
You are missing the point about glyphs and resource pools. Weapon Damage and Spell Damage don't mean squat when your Magicka and Stamina are under 20k.

With a Heavy Armor build and tri-stat glyphs you have around 30k Health, 17-18k Stamina and Magicka. This is flat out terrible. If you decide to glyph straight Magicka or Stamina one will suffer and defeats the purpose of going hybrid in the first place.
Even if you successfully manage to get your Spell Damage/Weapon Damage your tooltip damage on abilities is going to be low due to low Magicka/Stamina pools.
Even your surge hypothesis is flawed by this. You will not heal for very much because your overall damage from said ability is going to be lower than normal and you are getting a % of that back as a heal.

Again, this set is bad.

You see the world through the eyes of a glass cannon so you will probably never get the value of this set. You describe characters that have a 7-8k power range on their main stat. These characters would on average have a default power lvl of 2-3k on their off stat. I happen to know from game play experience that healing needs a 5k minimum power level to start being effective. And damage needs a minimum of a 6k power level to be threatening. I can make a pelinals build that has a 6500 main stat power and a 5k off stat power. If you build your character right pelinals is viable.

What's this power level figure you're referring to? It looks like a combination of weapon power and stam or spell power and magicka but what do you use to derive it?

I think he's talking about dividing your main resource stat by 10.5 and adding it to your main damage stat. For example: 40000 max magicka / 10.5 + 3000 spell damage = 6810 "power level".

AfkNinja · April 2016

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

This set is really bad. It should be renamed to "I'm going to suck now" or "watch me suck now", WMSN for short.

With this set you have to choose which form of armor to take (L/M/H) and then divide it up so you can get some of the passives from their skill lines. Best case scenario you choose 5 pieces of one so you can get the 5pc passive bonuses (light has 2, Concentration and Prodigy).

You still need to slot skills that give Major Savagery and Major Prophecy, or you're a DK running Flames of Oblivion.
Your glyphs are going to be bad. Your CP is going to be bad as you will need to split between Mooncalf/Arcanist, Warlord/Magician, Mighty/Elemental Expert, and Elfborn/Precise Strikes.

There is absolutely no reason to use this set as you can't even be competitive due to sub-par performance. This is true for PvP and PvE.

All of my Magicka based characters have over 43k Magicka, 50+ Spell Crit, and 4kish achievable Spell Damage.
All of my Stamina based characters have over 33k Stamina, 50+ Crit and 4k+ish Weapon Damage with 2kish Stamina Regen.
These are just my PvP stats, PvE would be even better.

If you want to be competitive you will neeed similar numbers. You will not achieve this using this set.

I don't think the set is as bad as you say, but the results will depend greatly on what the theory crafter is trying to achieve. I agree that splitting CP and resources are still going to result in a weak "hybrid" build, but what about simply using the set to min-max a traditional spell power build?

Imagine if you substituted this set for Kagrenac's Hope, which I believe is the best set for PvP, although others may prefer Julianos or whatever. You'd be giving up 967 magicka and 224 spell power in exchange for 129 stamina regen and the opportunity to max weapon damage in place of spell power. I haven't done the math yet, but it wouldn't surprise me if you could more than make up that fior spell power deficit simply by enchanting your staff with a weapon power enchant and slotting Flawless Dawnbreaker as your Ultimate. Of course, all your jewelry enchants and set bonuses would have to be weapon power instead of spell power, but it could definitely work.

For Sorcerers in particular, this would be a HUGE advantage, because the Sorc could slot Critical Surge instead of Power Surge. That would make the Surge heals use the 60% multiplier instead of 40%... that's a 50% increase in Surge heal output!

You don't think it's as bad as I say?
You split CP. This makes you below average.
You are missing the point about glyphs and resource pools. Weapon Damage and Spell Damage don't mean squat when your Magicka and Stamina are under 20k.

With a Heavy Armor build and tri-stat glyphs you have around 30k Health, 17-18k Stamina and Magicka. This is flat out terrible. If you decide to glyph straight Magicka or Stamina one will suffer and defeats the purpose of going hybrid in the first place.
Even if you successfully manage to get your Spell Damage/Weapon Damage your tooltip damage on abilities is going to be low due to low Magicka/Stamina pools.
Even your surge hypothesis is flawed by this. You will not heal for very much because your overall damage from said ability is going to be lower than normal and you are getting a % of that back as a heal.

Again, this set is bad.

I don't think you understood my post. I'm not suggesting a "hybrid" build with split CP or resources. I'm merely suggesting a spell damage build that stacks weapon damage and uses Pelinal's to convert it to spell damage. You wouldn't have to change ANY of your CP passives, because Pelinal's automatically boosts your spell damage to match your stacked weapon damage. In this scenario, you would use your magicka spells to do damage as you normally do, and no passives or attribute allocations would need to be changed. I tested it on the PTS, and it really works.

When you use Major Brutality for the 20% wep dmg does it convert to spell dmg and vice verse with major sorcery? Please, I need to know.

Emma_Overload · April 2016

AfkNinja wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

This set is really bad. It should be renamed to "I'm going to suck now" or "watch me suck now", WMSN for short.

With this set you have to choose which form of armor to take (L/M/H) and then divide it up so you can get some of the passives from their skill lines. Best case scenario you choose 5 pieces of one so you can get the 5pc passive bonuses (light has 2, Concentration and Prodigy).

You still need to slot skills that give Major Savagery and Major Prophecy, or you're a DK running Flames of Oblivion.
Your glyphs are going to be bad. Your CP is going to be bad as you will need to split between Mooncalf/Arcanist, Warlord/Magician, Mighty/Elemental Expert, and Elfborn/Precise Strikes.

There is absolutely no reason to use this set as you can't even be competitive due to sub-par performance. This is true for PvP and PvE.

All of my Magicka based characters have over 43k Magicka, 50+ Spell Crit, and 4kish achievable Spell Damage.
All of my Stamina based characters have over 33k Stamina, 50+ Crit and 4k+ish Weapon Damage with 2kish Stamina Regen.
These are just my PvP stats, PvE would be even better.

If you want to be competitive you will neeed similar numbers. You will not achieve this using this set.

I don't think the set is as bad as you say, but the results will depend greatly on what the theory crafter is trying to achieve. I agree that splitting CP and resources are still going to result in a weak "hybrid" build, but what about simply using the set to min-max a traditional spell power build?

Imagine if you substituted this set for Kagrenac's Hope, which I believe is the best set for PvP, although others may prefer Julianos or whatever. You'd be giving up 967 magicka and 224 spell power in exchange for 129 stamina regen and the opportunity to max weapon damage in place of spell power. I haven't done the math yet, but it wouldn't surprise me if you could more than make up that fior spell power deficit simply by enchanting your staff with a weapon power enchant and slotting Flawless Dawnbreaker as your Ultimate. Of course, all your jewelry enchants and set bonuses would have to be weapon power instead of spell power, but it could definitely work.

For Sorcerers in particular, this would be a HUGE advantage, because the Sorc could slot Critical Surge instead of Power Surge. That would make the Surge heals use the 60% multiplier instead of 40%... that's a 50% increase in Surge heal output!

You don't think it's as bad as I say?
You split CP. This makes you below average.
You are missing the point about glyphs and resource pools. Weapon Damage and Spell Damage don't mean squat when your Magicka and Stamina are under 20k.

With a Heavy Armor build and tri-stat glyphs you have around 30k Health, 17-18k Stamina and Magicka. This is flat out terrible. If you decide to glyph straight Magicka or Stamina one will suffer and defeats the purpose of going hybrid in the first place.
Even if you successfully manage to get your Spell Damage/Weapon Damage your tooltip damage on abilities is going to be low due to low Magicka/Stamina pools.
Even your surge hypothesis is flawed by this. You will not heal for very much because your overall damage from said ability is going to be lower than normal and you are getting a % of that back as a heal.

Again, this set is bad.

I don't think you understood my post. I'm not suggesting a "hybrid" build with split CP or resources. I'm merely suggesting a spell damage build that stacks weapon damage and uses Pelinal's to convert it to spell damage. You wouldn't have to change ANY of your CP passives, because Pelinal's automatically boosts your spell damage to match your stacked weapon damage. In this scenario, you would use your magicka spells to do damage as you normally do, and no passives or attribute allocations would need to be changed. I tested it on the PTS, and it really works.

When you use Major Brutality for the 20% wep dmg does it convert to spell dmg and vice verse with major sorcery? Please, I need to know.

Yes, I tested this exacted scenario. Critical Surge boosts the Weapon Damage by 20% before Pelinal's converts it to Spell Damage. Likewise, Flawless Dawnbreaker boosts Weapon Damage before the conversion.

AfkNinja · April 2016

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Yes, I tested this exacted scenario. Critical Surge boosts the Weapon Damage by 20% before Pelinal's converts it to Spell Damage. Likewise, Flawless Dawnbreaker boosts Weapon Damage before the conversion.

This set actually looks really exciting to me. Glad that works! Thank you.

Edit: Now I want to build a Magicka Templar stacking Wep Dmg and Rally for lolz.

Helluin · April 2016

For sure hybrid builds still suffer the removal of softcaps and so the max stats are contributing heavily for damage, healing, etc. but this set is surely something nice for who is missing hybrid builds pre 1.6.

I see many posts about this set and it's quite hyping with ideas and discussions.
Devs then did an amazing job with it imho and so thank you very much.

Surely some tweaks could improve this set (I agree that it can't be an optimal build) but there are already really many interesting possibilities.

For example with a NB tank in Orsinium patch I had around 32k magicka, 26-27k health and 20k stamina.
This set would surely be a fun experiment but it really depends on how you want to build your character.
But for my primary builds, I'll do some tests with it on NB and on a DK with staff + 2H.

Just an hint... you could use this set on one bar with DW or S&B and have Alchemist, Kagrenac, Seducer, Armor Master or Way of the Arena, etc. on 2H, bow or staff bar or vice versa + 3 Willpower, Endurance or Agility as jewelry.
Even Torug's Pact with an Infused weapon, considering the buffed weapon glyphs, could be an idea.
Another option to compensate stats is Pelinal's + Imperial Physique + Maelstrom weapon or one Monster helm or shoulder in IC... if you are brave enough to run around with 4x Tel Var Stones.
I have some other interesting setups in mind but first I'll test them.

PvP wise surely it could be fun in no CP campaign and in future with raised CP cap.

Pomaikai · April 2016

I'm really interested in how this set will work with my Magicka Templar in PVP paired with my VD swords and jewelry.

I'm really looking forward to seeing the theory crafting for this set. Suggestions on how to spend our main character points, skills, CP, as well as armor weights and traits that will work best for Magplars.