Sorcerers- The most Under-Powered Class?

XZS2JHub17_ESO · April 2016

I have been playing as a sorcerer main for over two years now, and this is the conclusion I have come to: Sorcerers are the most under-powered class, as of the dark brotherhood patch. Strictly speaking in the DPS scene, (as imo that's what sorcs are meant to be, if categorized in dps/tank/healer), we are specialized in BURST damage. In PVE, (yes, pve. A lot of you seem to forget that pvp is only Half of the game.) sorcerers are the worst sustained DPS class out of the 4. We may hit hard, for a short time, yes. Overload is a very unique ultimate. However, building 1000 points of ult in a timely manner is hard, and without overload our dps drops dramatically. This is one of the reasons why I am confused in why they feel the need to continuously nerf the sorc class when they need buffing in other general areas! I mean, since the Beta of ESO, Our execution ability was bugged, and was, and still IS the worst execution to date. Tooltip says 20% is where the execution proc will start, yet, it does NOT start at 20% it starts at 18%. Already bad execution made worse because ZOS refuses to fix a simple coding bug in the sorc's execution line. Not only this, but pets were literally useless for months on end (unless for solo playing in a god damn MMO - no judgement there, but it is not fun to play alone in an MMO in my opinion.) until they added healing morphs recently. The sorcs, just don't have many USEFUL skills in our skill line! When was the last time you saw someone use rune prison? when was the last time you saw someone use encase in PVE? Dark exchange after the heavy nerf on it? - (Which by the way, was our only means of sustain ZOS took away). Negate magic? Strom atro? familiar? out of 18 active class skills, 6 of the skills are very rarely used, and 4 of them are from one skill line, Dark magic! I am so annoyed with how sorcs are completely getting trashed as a class simply because of two things IN PVP: our burst damage and shield stacking. sorcs are hated on because of the burst on our overloads and/or bomb combo. Overload is literally countered by dk's with reflect, or just simple roll dodge. the bomb combo can be countered with block or purify. And what seems like the biggest issue, shield stacking. Hello?? Shield stacking sorcs don't do anything as a dps. All they do is be annoying and disrupt the back line. If you chase them, it's your fault for being too aggressive and being out of position. You can literally just ignore them. if they attack you, and you attack back, they will run away most of the time because they cannot out damage you. People just don't know how to deal with these, and isn't bothering to learn about it. but instead, just complain about it, because that's much easier. Thank you for ruining a class completely, ZOS. Well done. 10/10 IGN. In the next patch please think hard about how to save sorcs. don't make them like beta sorcs again, they were actually overpowered. Bring the class some balance. Sorry for bad English, or however the meme goes.

bloodenragedb14_ESO · April 2016

well said, though i do think you need to break up your op into smaller paragraphs, its somewhat hard to read as is

XZS2JHub17_ESO · April 2016

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

well said, though i do think you need to break up your op into smaller paragraphs, its somewhat hard to read as is

is there a way to edit this?

XZS2JHub17_ESO · April 2016

-deleted due to double posting-

Vangy · April 2016

XZS2JHub17_ESO wrote: »

I have been playing as a sorcerer main for over two years now, and this is the conclusion I have come to: Sorcerers are the most under-powered class, as of the dark brotherhood patch. Strictly speaking in the DPS scene, (as imo that's what sorcs are meant to be, if categorized in dps/tank/healer), we are specialized in BURST damage. In PVE, (yes, pve. A lot of you seem to forget that pvp is only Half of the game.) sorcerers are the worst sustained DPS class out of the 4. We may hit hard, for a short time, yes. Overload is a very unique ultimate. However, building 1000 points of ult in a timely manner is hard, and without overload our dps drops dramatically. This is one of the reasons why I am confused in why they feel the need to continuously nerf the sorc class when they need buffing in other general areas! I mean, since the Beta of ESO, Our execution ability was bugged, and was, and still IS the worst execution to date. Tooltip says 20% is where the execution proc will start, yet, it does NOT start at 20% it starts at 18%. Already bad execution made worse because ZOS refuses to fix a simple coding bug in the sorc's execution line. Not only this, but pets were literally useless for months on end (unless for solo playing in a god damn MMO - no judgement there, but it is not fun to play alone in an MMO in my opinion.) until they added healing morphs recently. The sorcs, just don't have many USEFUL skills in our skill line! When was the last time you saw someone use rune prison? when was the last time you saw someone use encase in PVE? Dark exchange after the heavy nerf on it? - (Which by the way, was our only means of sustain ZOS took away). Negate magic? Strom atro? familiar? out of 18 active class skills, 6 of the skills are very rarely used, and 4 of them are from one skill line, Dark magic! I am so annoyed with how sorcs are completely getting trashed as a class simply because of two things IN PVP: our burst damage and shield stacking. sorcs are hated on because of the burst on our overloads and/or bomb combo. Overload is literally countered by dk's with reflect, or just simple roll dodge. the bomb combo can be countered with block or purify. And what seems like the biggest issue, shield stacking. Hello?? Shield stacking sorcs don't do anything as a dps. All they do is be annoying and disrupt the back line. If you chase them, it's your fault for being too aggressive and being out of position. You can literally just ignore them. if they attack you, and you attack back, they will run away most of the time because they cannot out damage you. People just don't know how to deal with these, and isn't bothering to learn about it. but instead, just complain about it, because that's much easier. Thank you for ruining a class completely, ZOS. Well done. 10/10 IGN. In the next patch please think hard about how to save sorcs. don't make them like beta sorcs again, they were actually overpowered. Bring the class some balance. Sorry for bad English, or however the meme goes.

Paragraphing would have helped but I dont think sorcs are all that bad even now. I have a magSorc as well as other toons so hear me out.

1. You complain about a bugged execution ability. At least you have a class execute. MagDks don't even get one.

2. Overload is fantastic for burst in both PvE and PvP when timed right but yes, sorcs suck at sustained for longer fights in PvE. Agreed.

3. Regarding mag utility skills, no DPS class ever slots anything like this. When was the last time you saw any class as a DPS using things like wings, mirage, fossilize, rune focus etc etc in PvE. In PvE DPS the only thing on your bars would be DPS and buffs. Its normal for most DPS classes to ignoe 80% of their class skills in favour of the DPS tree skills. Ie: for DKS its ardent flame, for NBs its assasination, for Temps its jaby jabby etc etc. The utility and CC skills are only used in PvP for the most part. For PvE its irrelevant.

4. Regarding ults, think about most other mag builds. Most of them are just slotting meteor for DPS short of DKs with standard. Overload is an amazing ultimate for PvE burst and also provides a 3rd bar in PvP. We get 3 bars unlike any other class. Not the most useful in PvE but fantastic in PvP.

5. As for pets.. Yeah they used to suck really bad but now thyre not too bad. Goin in the right direction. We even get a templars class defining ability (BOL) with the downside of a toggle. Pretty good deal for heals if you ask me.

6. There's a reason why the whole world is complaining about shield stacking sorcs. My sorc pre DB PTS can pre buff with a 12k hardened ward followed by a 10k harness magicka which both lasts for 20 seconds. Then I waltz into a fight with a total of 20k worth of shields and believe me... 20 seconds is more than enough to bomb someone. They can fight me or they can run. They aint getting away. Proxy>curse>frag>meteor/DB of smiting. If thyre a magicka toon thyre going to have to be able to survive that burst and then take down 20k worth of shields followed by my HP bar while I can just hit 1 button and re apply 10k worth of a shield again. That's why the duration got nerfed. Not to mention vicious death. Just need to kill 1 noob and every player gets blown up in the area. And I havent even talked about being able to stack hardened ward with these 2 other shields which can also be pre-buffed.

In short, sorcs are not as bad as you make them out to be. Yeah they suck at sustained DPS now but that can be fixed. Overload is still hands down a solid burst ultimate. In most pledges pretty much when I start with 1000 ultimate I can just perma overload bosses and recharge a little on trash and overload the next boss. Will still have ult left over for overload even at the end of a pledge. This obviously wont apply in trials tho since bosses last much much longer there. Sorcs are bad in PvE but remain extremely competitive (if not one of the best) classes to be playing in PvP. Give ZOS some time to fix DPS for sorcs in PvE. Think they already had their hands full with the stamina/magika balance patch + removal of vet ranks etc.

XZS2JHub17_ESO · April 2016

Vangy wrote: »

XZS2JHub17_ESO wrote: »

I have been playing as a sorcerer main for over two years now, and this is the conclusion I have come to: Sorcerers are the most under-powered class, as of the dark brotherhood patch. Strictly speaking in the DPS scene, (as imo that's what sorcs are meant to be, if categorized in dps/tank/healer), we are specialized in BURST damage. In PVE, (yes, pve. A lot of you seem to forget that pvp is only Half of the game.) sorcerers are the worst sustained DPS class out of the 4. We may hit hard, for a short time, yes. Overload is a very unique ultimate. However, building 1000 points of ult in a timely manner is hard, and without overload our dps drops dramatically. This is one of the reasons why I am confused in why they feel the need to continuously nerf the sorc class when they need buffing in other general areas! I mean, since the Beta of ESO, Our execution ability was bugged, and was, and still IS the worst execution to date. Tooltip says 20% is where the execution proc will start, yet, it does NOT start at 20% it starts at 18%. Already bad execution made worse because ZOS refuses to fix a simple coding bug in the sorc's execution line. Not only this, but pets were literally useless for months on end (unless for solo playing in a god damn MMO - no judgement there, but it is not fun to play alone in an MMO in my opinion.) until they added healing morphs recently. The sorcs, just don't have many USEFUL skills in our skill line! When was the last time you saw someone use rune prison? when was the last time you saw someone use encase in PVE? Dark exchange after the heavy nerf on it? - (Which by the way, was our only means of sustain ZOS took away). Negate magic? Strom atro? familiar? out of 18 active class skills, 6 of the skills are very rarely used, and 4 of them are from one skill line, Dark magic! I am so annoyed with how sorcs are completely getting trashed as a class simply because of two things IN PVP: our burst damage and shield stacking. sorcs are hated on because of the burst on our overloads and/or bomb combo. Overload is literally countered by dk's with reflect, or just simple roll dodge. the bomb combo can be countered with block or purify. And what seems like the biggest issue, shield stacking. Hello?? Shield stacking sorcs don't do anything as a dps. All they do is be annoying and disrupt the back line. If you chase them, it's your fault for being too aggressive and being out of position. You can literally just ignore them. if they attack you, and you attack back, they will run away most of the time because they cannot out damage you. People just don't know how to deal with these, and isn't bothering to learn about it. but instead, just complain about it, because that's much easier. Thank you for ruining a class completely, ZOS. Well done. 10/10 IGN. In the next patch please think hard about how to save sorcs. don't make them like beta sorcs again, they were actually overpowered. Bring the class some balance. Sorry for bad English, or however the meme goes.

Paragraphing would have helped but I dont think sorcs are all that bad even now. I have a magSorc as well as other toons so hear me out.

1. You complain about a bugged execution ability. At least you have a class execute. MagDks don't even get one.

2. Overload is fantastic for burst in both PvE and PvP when timed right but yes, sorcs suck at sustained for longer fights in PvE. Agreed.

3. Regarding mag utility skills, no DPS class ever slots anything like this. When was the last time you saw any class as a DPS using things like wings, mirage, fossilize, rune focus etc etc in PvE. In PvE DPS the only thing on your bars would be DPS and buffs. Its normal for most DPS classes to ignoe 80% of their class skills in favour of the DPS tree skills. Ie: for DKS its ardent flame, for NBs its assasination, for Temps its jaby jabby etc etc. The utility and CC skills are only used in PvP for the most part. For PvE its irrelevant.

4. Regarding ults, think about most other mag builds. Most of them are just slotting meteor for DPS short of DKs with standard. Overload is an amazing ultimate for PvE burst and also provides a 3rd bar in PvP. We get 3 bars unlike any other class. Not the most useful in PvE but fantastic in PvP.

5. As for pets.. Yeah they used to suck really bad but now thyre not too bad. Goin in the right direction. We even get a templars class defining ability (BOL) with the downside of a toggle. Pretty good deal for heals if you ask me.

6. There's a reason why the whole world is complaining about shield stacking sorcs. My sorc pre DB PTS can pre buff with a 12k hardened ward followed by a 10k harness magicka which both lasts for 20 seconds. Then I waltz into a fight with a total of 20k worth of shields and believe me... 20 seconds is more than enough to bomb someone. They can fight me or they can run. They aint getting away. Proxy>curse>frag>meteor/DB of smiting. If thyre a magicka toon thyre going to have to be able to survive that burst and then take down 20k worth of shields followed by my HP bar while I can just hit 1 button and re apply 10k worth of a shield again. That's why the duration got nerfed. Not to mention vicious death. Just need to kill 1 noob and every player gets blown up in the area. And I havent even talked about being able to stack hardened ward with these 2 other shields which can also be pre-buffed.

In short, sorcs are not as bad as you make them out to be. Yeah they suck at sustained DPS now but that can be fixed. Overload is still hands down a solid burst ultimate. In most pledges pretty much when I start with 1000 ultimate I can just perma overload bosses and recharge a little on trash and overload the next boss. Will still have ult left over for overload even at the end of a pledge. This obviously wont apply in trials tho since bosses last much much longer there. Sorcs are bad in PvE but remain extremely competitive (if not one of the best) classes to be playing in PvP. Give ZOS some time to fix DPS for sorcs in PvE. Think they already had their hands full with the stamina/magika balance patch + removal of vet ranks etc.

I agree with most of what you said there, and paragraphing definitely would have helped, lol. as for number 3, I was talking in regards to its overall usage, regardless of what role you are. It is so rare for anyone to use those skills, as they are generally just bad.

And yes, Overload is fantastic. absolutely. 3rd bar is what i love about it. make me feel special. And I didn't favor shield stacking. I actually don't mind the shield nerf. As I don't even really use it. I think it is absolutely stupid and boring. I've beaten many shield stacking builds with just pure bursting. It's just a matter of your positioning and awareness. It is very annoying to be up against one, so i usually shoot overload once or twice and when they run away, I run the other away and usually that's that. That's how i ignore them.

Yeah, I heard about that. Like i said, Before they were bad, Now they're ok. Building a healer sorc as we speak.

What I am frustrated about is that the nerf in sorcs for PVP damages PVE sorcs so much it just takes the fun out of them completely. It's almost as if ZOS is limiting sorcs purely for PVP. The problem is, that's just half of the game.

Vangy · April 2016

XZS2JHub17_ESO wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

XZS2JHub17_ESO wrote: »

I have been playing as a sorcerer main for over two years now, and this is the conclusion I have come to: Sorcerers are the most under-powered class, as of the dark brotherhood patch. Strictly speaking in the DPS scene, (as imo that's what sorcs are meant to be, if categorized in dps/tank/healer), we are specialized in BURST damage. In PVE, (yes, pve. A lot of you seem to forget that pvp is only Half of the game.) sorcerers are the worst sustained DPS class out of the 4. We may hit hard, for a short time, yes. Overload is a very unique ultimate. However, building 1000 points of ult in a timely manner is hard, and without overload our dps drops dramatically. This is one of the reasons why I am confused in why they feel the need to continuously nerf the sorc class when they need buffing in other general areas! I mean, since the Beta of ESO, Our execution ability was bugged, and was, and still IS the worst execution to date. Tooltip says 20% is where the execution proc will start, yet, it does NOT start at 20% it starts at 18%. Already bad execution made worse because ZOS refuses to fix a simple coding bug in the sorc's execution line. Not only this, but pets were literally useless for months on end (unless for solo playing in a god damn MMO - no judgement there, but it is not fun to play alone in an MMO in my opinion.) until they added healing morphs recently. The sorcs, just don't have many USEFUL skills in our skill line! When was the last time you saw someone use rune prison? when was the last time you saw someone use encase in PVE? Dark exchange after the heavy nerf on it? - (Which by the way, was our only means of sustain ZOS took away). Negate magic? Strom atro? familiar? out of 18 active class skills, 6 of the skills are very rarely used, and 4 of them are from one skill line, Dark magic! I am so annoyed with how sorcs are completely getting trashed as a class simply because of two things IN PVP: our burst damage and shield stacking. sorcs are hated on because of the burst on our overloads and/or bomb combo. Overload is literally countered by dk's with reflect, or just simple roll dodge. the bomb combo can be countered with block or purify. And what seems like the biggest issue, shield stacking. Hello?? Shield stacking sorcs don't do anything as a dps. All they do is be annoying and disrupt the back line. If you chase them, it's your fault for being too aggressive and being out of position. You can literally just ignore them. if they attack you, and you attack back, they will run away most of the time because they cannot out damage you. People just don't know how to deal with these, and isn't bothering to learn about it. but instead, just complain about it, because that's much easier. Thank you for ruining a class completely, ZOS. Well done. 10/10 IGN. In the next patch please think hard about how to save sorcs. don't make them like beta sorcs again, they were actually overpowered. Bring the class some balance. Sorry for bad English, or however the meme goes.

Paragraphing would have helped but I dont think sorcs are all that bad even now. I have a magSorc as well as other toons so hear me out.

1. You complain about a bugged execution ability. At least you have a class execute. MagDks don't even get one.

2. Overload is fantastic for burst in both PvE and PvP when timed right but yes, sorcs suck at sustained for longer fights in PvE. Agreed.

3. Regarding mag utility skills, no DPS class ever slots anything like this. When was the last time you saw any class as a DPS using things like wings, mirage, fossilize, rune focus etc etc in PvE. In PvE DPS the only thing on your bars would be DPS and buffs. Its normal for most DPS classes to ignoe 80% of their class skills in favour of the DPS tree skills. Ie: for DKS its ardent flame, for NBs its assasination, for Temps its jaby jabby etc etc. The utility and CC skills are only used in PvP for the most part. For PvE its irrelevant.

4. Regarding ults, think about most other mag builds. Most of them are just slotting meteor for DPS short of DKs with standard. Overload is an amazing ultimate for PvE burst and also provides a 3rd bar in PvP. We get 3 bars unlike any other class. Not the most useful in PvE but fantastic in PvP.

5. As for pets.. Yeah they used to suck really bad but now thyre not too bad. Goin in the right direction. We even get a templars class defining ability (BOL) with the downside of a toggle. Pretty good deal for heals if you ask me.

6. There's a reason why the whole world is complaining about shield stacking sorcs. My sorc pre DB PTS can pre buff with a 12k hardened ward followed by a 10k harness magicka which both lasts for 20 seconds. Then I waltz into a fight with a total of 20k worth of shields and believe me... 20 seconds is more than enough to bomb someone. They can fight me or they can run. They aint getting away. Proxy>curse>frag>meteor/DB of smiting. If thyre a magicka toon thyre going to have to be able to survive that burst and then take down 20k worth of shields followed by my HP bar while I can just hit 1 button and re apply 10k worth of a shield again. That's why the duration got nerfed. Not to mention vicious death. Just need to kill 1 noob and every player gets blown up in the area. And I havent even talked about being able to stack hardened ward with these 2 other shields which can also be pre-buffed.

In short, sorcs are not as bad as you make them out to be. Yeah they suck at sustained DPS now but that can be fixed. Overload is still hands down a solid burst ultimate. In most pledges pretty much when I start with 1000 ultimate I can just perma overload bosses and recharge a little on trash and overload the next boss. Will still have ult left over for overload even at the end of a pledge. This obviously wont apply in trials tho since bosses last much much longer there. Sorcs are bad in PvE but remain extremely competitive (if not one of the best) classes to be playing in PvP. Give ZOS some time to fix DPS for sorcs in PvE. Think they already had their hands full with the stamina/magika balance patch + removal of vet ranks etc.

I agree with most of what you said there, and paragraphing definitely would have helped, lol. as for number 3, I was talking in regards to its overall usage, regardless of what role you are. It is so rare for anyone to use those skills, as they are generally just bad.

And yes, Overload is fantastic. absolutely. 3rd bar is what i love about it. make me feel special. And I didn't favor shield stacking. I actually don't mind the shield nerf. As I don't even really use it. I think it is absolutely stupid and boring. I've beaten many shield stacking builds with just pure bursting. It's just a matter of your positioning and awareness. It is very annoying to be up against one, so i usually shoot overload once or twice and when they run away, I run the other away and usually that's that. That's how i ignore them.

Yeah, I heard about that. Like i said, Before they were bad, Now they're ok. Building a healer sorc as we speak.

What I am frustrated about is that the nerf in sorcs for PVP damages PVE sorcs so much it just takes the fun out of them completely. It's almost as if ZOS is limiting sorcs purely for PVP. The problem is, that's just half of the game.

Agree ^ 100%. I do both PvP and PvE and trust me its a nightmare. I have 8 toons with all v16 gold gear and gold enchants. Its a nightmare everytime ZOS decides to do a "balancing" patch.... Especially with DB making sharpened > nirn... zzzzzz. Im having sleepless nights just thinking about how much of my reserve mats/tempers and gold im going to have to spend... My guesstimate is at least 250k per toon.... This DLC is going to cost me millions TT.TT

*shakes bowl for tips*

XZS2JHub17_ESO · April 2016

Vangy wrote: »

Agree ^ 100%. I do both PvP and PvE and trust me its a nightmare. I have 8 toons with all v16 gold gear and gold enchants. Its a nightmare everytime ZOS decides to do a "balancing" patch.... Especially with DB making sharpened > nirn... zzzzzz. Im having sleepless nights just thinking about how much of my reserve mats/tempers and gold im going to have to spend... My guesstimate is at least 250k per toon.... This DLC is going to cost me millions TT.TT

*shakes bowl for tips*

haha jesus you leveled all 8 to v16. I only have 3 in vet rank. I'm still doing every single quest on my main, completed EP, almost done with DC.

Anyways, I hope this post gets a lot of views and attention so ZOS will finally pay some proper attention to sorcs and change them around a bit.

CreepyPahuska · April 2016

Even if I agree with some of the things you said, I must correct this :

XZS2JHub17_ESO wrote: »

The sorcs, just don't have many USEFUL skills in our skill line! When was the last time you saw someone use rune prison? when was the last time you saw someone use encase in PVE? Dark exchange after the heavy nerf on it? - (Which by the way, was our only means of sustain ZOS took away). Negate magic? Strom atro? familiar? out of 18 active class skills, 6 of the skills are very rarely used, and 4 of them are from one skill line, Dark magic!

You say that you are talking in regards to its overall usage, regardless of what role you are. You're wrong. It is rare for anyone to use those skills, I agree, but it's not because they are generally just bad. It is simply because most sorcerers you see are playing as DPS with the usual shard + force pulse + overload thing. The question you should ask isn't when was the last time you saw someone use those skills, but when was the last time you saw a sorc trying to play differently/another role ? Cause I can assure you that Encase & Negate for example, are not bad at all. In my opinion they are just as important as the hardened ward for a sorcerer tank. The real problem is that most players aren't curious enough to try playing the sorc differently than as DPS with the same classic build.
It's sad, but it seems to me that sorcerer only suffers from being the go-to class for casual magicka dps players. Everyone gave up on trying to play it differently

mildlylucid · April 2016

Good points but I think this just adds to the ever growing list of PvE imbalance (Might be wrong about this but DK's have the opposite issue as they have no burst).
ZOS seem to only care about balance in PvP and for PvE settle for nerfing content into the ground so what you are is irrelevant.
Hate to be cynical but there it is

Vangy · April 2016

XZS2JHub17_ESO wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

well said, though i do think you need to break up your op into smaller paragraphs, its somewhat hard to read as is

is there a way to edit this?

Top of this thread you will see a small gear Icon. Scroll all the way to the top near the title of your thread. Click on it and select edit =X

Rakkul · April 2016

What I do not understand is this degree of change.
Why 6 seconds?
Why not 5 or 7 or 9, 14?
Where are the background calculations that shows 6 is the optimum number for Sorc pvp/pve gameplay?

Class changes - no matter the class - should be incremental adjustments, refined as the game evolves. It is near impossible to align that orderly process with a 67% reduction to a skill.

To introduce such a significant percentage adjustment should have involved an extensive level of research prior to the change. So can you please show this, or at least explain why 6 seconds was decided as the optimum figure for pvp and pve.

Otherwise it just comes across as a knee jerk reaction to community shouting from other class players. Surely that is not the image you wish to portray. Yet with this and other seemingly ad hoc changes that is the danger here.

- An organisation that panders to the loudest without carrying out due diligence, with the resultant swinging performance levels of the games' classes.

Please refute the above with your background data. 6 seconds may be the optimum, although I would be extremely surprised to see this proven for pve (which is a more stable environment and therefore easier to calculate), and show why it's not 8 or 5 or 17, 14 etc.

However, if you have decided to simply throw a large reduction out there like a brick into a pond to see the reaction, then you must fully accept the comments expected to come your way. Subsequent adjustments to the 6 seconds will not then be seen as the result of further calculations, but merely and depressingly as more knee jerk responses to he who shouts the loudest.

This serves only as an encouragement for the community to be more and more vocal in their calls for other class reductions with ever wilder demands.

That is a path for decreasing quality in gameplay, closely associated with an increasingly frustrated and declining loyalty in game population.

Amorpho · April 2016

I have been playing Magicka Sorc since launch and I must confess I am not too happy about the 6 seconds reduction. I have a Magicka Nightblade and currently working on a Stam Templar too so I have something to fall back on in case Sorcs feel underpowered. However, I think there may be a way around some of the latest changes that could keep Sorcs pretty viable in PVP (although PVE might need a little love. 6 seconds shields in PVE is just too short. Maybe they could change the duration for PVE?).

I actually thought of front barring one of my Shields (possibly Hardened Ward, for the extra 2% spell damage). This way I can "clap my hands" and do damage at the same time without having to rely on bar-swap (which often fails me when ganked/stunned/lagged etc).

On my back-bar I'd keep Harness Magicka together with streak for either aggressive stun or quick escape+protection+magicka returns (hello?), and healing ward (cast HM before casting HW so your healing bubble is fully protected)

I know 6 seconds don't last long but, believe you me, in the heat of battle, especially when DOTS now wear out your bubbles, you will have to re-apply your shields way more times than just once every 20 seconds. You could also switch to power-surge for self-heals on crits while having your bubbles up so you don't have to rely too heavily on Healing Ward.

phaneub17_ESO · April 2016

XZS2JHub17_ESO wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

well said, though i do think you need to break up your op into smaller paragraphs, its somewhat hard to read as is

is there a way to edit this?

For the first post, your edit is the little cogwheel gear at the very top next to the Star bookmark, for replied posts its in the right corner.

psychotic13 · April 2016

Yeah I guess quite a few of the sorc abilities don't even get used, by anyone in any role.

Waffennacht · April 2016

I've always ran hardened on every bar. I only have ran hardened (though dampen + hardened = gg magicka)

The question to me becomes why run sorc?

Every other class can now do what sorcs can only with more variety now.

I guess 5 pets is cooler than 4

XZS2JHub17_ESO · April 2016

CreepyPahuska wrote: »

Even if I agree with some of the things you said, I must correct this :

XZS2JHub17_ESO wrote: »

The sorcs, just don't have many USEFUL skills in our skill line! When was the last time you saw someone use rune prison? when was the last time you saw someone use encase in PVE? Dark exchange after the heavy nerf on it? - (Which by the way, was our only means of sustain ZOS took away). Negate magic? Strom atro? familiar? out of 18 active class skills, 6 of the skills are very rarely used, and 4 of them are from one skill line, Dark magic!

You say that you are talking in regards to its overall usage, regardless of what role you are. You're wrong. It is rare for anyone to use those skills, I agree, but it's not because they are generally just bad. It is simply because most sorcerers you see are playing as DPS with the usual shard + force pulse + overload thing. The question you should ask isn't when was the last time you saw someone use those skills, but when was the last time you saw a sorc trying to play differently/another role ? Cause I can assure you that Encase & Negate for example, are not bad at all. In my opinion they are just as important as the hardened ward for a sorcerer tank. The real problem is that most players aren't curious enough to try playing the sorc differently than as DPS with the same classic build.
It's sad, but it seems to me that sorcerer only suffers from being the go-to class for casual magicka dps players. Everyone gave up on trying to play it differently

I have seen healer sorcs, and many tank sorcs. Most of them are DPS, that is true. I'm currently building a tank sorc with my own unique build, and a healer sorc. Anyways, out of the people that I have seen I have seen one sorc tank use encase (which was nice but he didn't use it often as it's not that useful compared to his other skills), one other use dark conversion (which btw, he never used it in combat, only when out of combat. he was a healer), no one using negate (after VWGT so called "FIX" on negating the lightning line), no one using rune prison, no one using familiar in the late game stage (v16), I only see this skill used in early game. This is the same with strom atro. I run a lot of trials and dungeons, and I just don't see these skills used. It is just so rare for anyone to use them. Even in other roles apart from dps.

XZS2JHub17_ESO · April 2016

Vangy wrote: »

XZS2JHub17_ESO wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

well said, though i do think you need to break up your op into smaller paragraphs, its somewhat hard to read as is

is there a way to edit this?

Top of this thread you will see a small gear Icon. Scroll all the way to the top near the title of your thread. Click on it and select edit =X

I don't see this option on my OP, only in he comments i made after.

XZS2JHub17_ESO · April 2016

Waffennacht wrote: »

I've always ran hardened on every bar. I only have ran hardened (though dampen + hardened = gg magicka)

The question to me becomes why run sorc?

Every other class can now do what sorcs can only with more variety now.

I guess 5 pets is cooler than 4

Because I have played my sorc for 2 years and somewhat grown attached to the class. Besides, a class is there to be played or their unique-ness, not be ignored because other classes can compensate for it easily. Zos really needs to do something about sorcs.

XZS2JHub17_ESO · April 2016

Amorpho wrote: »

I have been playing Magicka Sorc since launch and I must confess I am not too happy about the 6 seconds reduction. I have a Magicka Nightblade and currently working on a Stam Templar too so I have something to fall back on in case Sorcs feel underpowered. However, I think there may be a way around some of the latest changes that could keep Sorcs pretty viable in PVP (although PVE might need a little love. 6 seconds shields in PVE is just too short. Maybe they could change the duration for PVE?).

I actually thought of front barring one of my Shields (possibly Hardened Ward, for the extra 2% spell damage). This way I can "clap my hands" and do damage at the same time without having to rely on bar-swap (which often fails me when ganked/stunned/lagged etc).

On my back-bar I'd keep Harness Magicka together with streak for either aggressive stun or quick escape+protection+magicka returns (hello?), and healing ward (cast HM before casting HW so your healing bubble is fully protected)

I know 6 seconds don't last long but, believe you me, in the heat of battle, especially when DOTS now wear out your bubbles, you will have to re-apply your shields way more times than just once every 20 seconds. You could also switch to power-surge for self-heals on crits while having your bubbles up so you don't have to rely too heavily on Healing Ward.

Shield reduction isn't what this post is about, matter of fact I don't mind it, as I rarely even use hardened ward. What this post is about is the fact that sorcs are getting only nerfed and becoming more and more useless further down the patches. What I want to see is some damn balance in the class, change the skills no one uses anymore or buff them so people start using them. Something! at this rate it'll be a laughing stock if you play a sorc, no one will want to play with a sorc cause they will suck really bad, and other classes can do a better job at everything except summoning pets.

Firerock2 · April 2016

I always love a good laugh.

XZS2JHub17_ESO wrote: »

Shield reduction isn't what this post is about, matter of fact I don't mind it, as I rarely even use hardened ward. What this post is about is the fact that sorcs are getting only nerfed and becoming more and more useless further down the patches. What I want to see is some damn balance in the class, change the skills no one uses anymore or buff them so people start using them. Something! at this rate it'll be a laughing stock if you play a sorc, no one will want to play with a sorc cause they will suck really bad, and other classes can do a better job at everything except summoning pets.

If one class is far better than the other classes you should expect to see gradual nerfs until it is in line with the rest. Besides, what has happened on the PTS isn't even a nerf to sorc's, I'm sorry if you can't understand this.

OrphanHelgen · April 2016

I got 34k single target in the hammer boss in AA without overload, and even with destrostaffs on both bars, no dual vield. This was with magicka sorc.

I think sorcs have good stats like regen and reduce cost, max mag/stam and spell dmg/wpn dmg.

I think shooting star is a powerful ult on sorcs, since it only costs 170 ult, and easy to gain it back after used. It also increase your max magicka and regen by having it slotted, giving sorcs even higher stats.

Sorcs also have easy acces to both major and minor physical and spell ressistance, on both magicka and stamina.

I can agree the sorcs skills are very boring.

CreepyPahuska · April 2016

XZS2JHub17_ESO wrote: »

I have seen healer sorcs, and many tank sorcs. Most of them are DPS, that is true.

Alright, then what you saw are in fact DPS sorcerers who changed a few skills to be good enough at healing/tanking, so that they can do their daily pledges without waiting for a tank/heal for days. I am talking about real healers/tank; those whose primary build IS healer or tank, not DPS. Now just because it's rare to see the skills you mentionned being used doesn't mean they are useless.
About dark exchange, I don't like it myself but there's been a lot of talking about sorc tank on the forum recently, and I know some of them like it (I prefer heavy attacks to manage my ressources). And for the rune prison, it's more a PvP skill, especially the Defensive Rune morph. I tried it once in PvE, honnestly it's fun, but not really worth the skill slot

XZS2JHub17_ESO · April 2016

CreepyPahuska wrote: »

XZS2JHub17_ESO wrote: »

I have seen healer sorcs, and many tank sorcs. Most of them are DPS, that is true.

Alright, then what you saw are in fact DPS sorcerers who changed a few skills to be good enough at healing/tanking, so that they can do their daily pledges without waiting for a tank/heal for days. I am talking about real healers/tank; those whose primary build IS healer or tank, not DPS. Now just because it's rare to see the skills you mentionned being used doesn't mean they are useless.
About dark exchange, I don't like it myself but there's been a lot of talking about sorc tank on the forum recently, and I know some of them like it (I prefer heavy attacks to manage my ressources). And for the rune prison, it's more a PvP skill, especially the Defensive Rune morph. I tried it once in PvE, honnestly it's fun, but not really worth the skill slot

No, I meant real tanks and real healers who are sorcs. But from the ones that I have met, and talked in zone, rarely anyone uses it, maybe you have friends who do. All I know if that most of the players agreed that there are far better skills to use instead of those i mentioned.

XZS2JHub17_ESO · April 2016

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

I got 34k single target in the hammer boss in AA without overload, and even with destrostaffs on both bars, no dual vield. This was with magicka sorc.

I think sorcs have good stats like regen and reduce cost, max mag/stam and spell dmg/wpn dmg.

I think shooting star is a powerful ult on sorcs, since it only costs 170 ult, and easy to gain it back after used. It also increase your max magicka and regen by having it slotted, giving sorcs even higher stats.

Sorcs also have easy acces to both major and minor physical and spell ressistance, on both magicka and stamina.

I can agree the sorcs skills are very boring.

Fights in AA do not last long. especially as a 12 man group with people running ele drain and magicka ball. You are able to kill those bosses before you run out of magicka, if at all due to ele drain and magicka balls.

potirondb16_ESO · April 2016

Actually I feel, and It may seems Strange that two of the worst issue a sorc has are:

The two ability they need to have on their bar at all time to gather a competitive amount of mana (bound armor + magelight) which leave them with so little room to get aoe and hold a good dps if they also have to deal with buff and sometime shield.

Also the fact that animation on liquid lighting is not really working properly, this skill often don't work and most of the time you have to wait in order to be able to activate it, not as fluid as scorshed earth is.

Also the fact that tri-focus is not a good dps skil to work with as a Sorc unless you take the cheaty side of thing and use Nerieneth for constant dps.

So, I would kind of agree on some of those changes, the 8% bonus to magika would be nice if it could be optain some other way. Tri-focus would be nice if it could be only one burst domage but actually deals a bit more damage (could work with our lighting domage bonus as well)

and Finally Liquid lighting could use a animation check so it could be easier to apply.

Lastly I do understand about our ultimate and actually make it procs from 25% pourcent on one morph which gives magika back and 20% on the one that splash would be good.(no longer a splash ulti by default)

XZS2JHub17_ESO · April 2016

Firerock2 wrote: »

I always love a good laugh.

XZS2JHub17_ESO wrote: »

Shield reduction isn't what this post is about, matter of fact I don't mind it, as I rarely even use hardened ward. What this post is about is the fact that sorcs are getting only nerfed and becoming more and more useless further down the patches. What I want to see is some damn balance in the class, change the skills no one uses anymore or buff them so people start using them. Something! at this rate it'll be a laughing stock if you play a sorc, no one will want to play with a sorc cause they will suck really bad, and other classes can do a better job at everything except summoning pets.

If one class is far better than the other classes you should expect to see gradual nerfs until it is in line with the rest. Besides, what has happened on the PTS isn't even a nerf to sorc's, I'm sorry if you can't understand this.

shield duration going from 20 seconds to 6 seconds isn't a nerf? :Wutface: anyways that doesn't matter, what does is that sorcs are just falling behind every patch, due to the imbalance in our skill tree. I don't know if you have a sorc yourself or not, but what you said about gradual nerfs aren't strictly true, I wish it was.

You can also put it this way: sorcs are known for their wards, because they absorb physical and magical damage. Well guess what. Harness magicka also absorbs physical as well as magicka AND restores magicka on spell dmg hit now. It's better than hardened ward. And I don't know if ZOS tried to do something about shield stacking, but the matter of fact is, I think they just made it worse.

Firerock2 · April 2016

XZS2JHub17_ESO wrote: »

Firerock2 wrote: »

I always love a good laugh.

XZS2JHub17_ESO wrote: »

Shield reduction isn't what this post is about, matter of fact I don't mind it, as I rarely even use hardened ward. What this post is about is the fact that sorcs are getting only nerfed and becoming more and more useless further down the patches. What I want to see is some damn balance in the class, change the skills no one uses anymore or buff them so people start using them. Something! at this rate it'll be a laughing stock if you play a sorc, no one will want to play with a sorc cause they will suck really bad, and other classes can do a better job at everything except summoning pets.

If one class is far better than the other classes you should expect to see gradual nerfs until it is in line with the rest. Besides, what has happened on the PTS isn't even a nerf to sorc's, I'm sorry if you can't understand this.

shield duration going from 20 seconds to 6 seconds isn't a nerf? :Wutface: anyways that doesn't matter, what does is that sorcs are just falling behind every patch, due to the imbalance in our skill tree. I don't know if you have a sorc yourself or not, but what you said about gradual nerfs aren't strictly true, I wish it was.

You can also put it this way: sorcs are known for their wards, because they absorb physical and magical damage. Well guess what. Harness magicka also absorbs physical as well as magicka AND restores magicka on spell dmg hit now. It's better than hardened ward. And I don't know if ZOS tried to do something about shield stacking, but the matter of fact is, I think they just made it worse.

Oh please, the change to hardened ward won't even be noticeable if you aren't complete trash. Sorc's benefit from the Harness magicka buff the most because they are the class that mainly relies on shield stacking. You even said the shield stacking will be worse now. You are right on one thing though, what I said about gradual nerfs isn't true. There really hasn't been any big nerfs at all for sorc's in over a year, they are still running around infinitely spamming shields and bursting down people with ridiculous damage numbers all because they just need to stack into one resource to get damage, tankiness, and sustain. If you can't tell, magicka sorc's thrive in this meta and they have for over a year now.

Waffennacht · April 2016

Eh... our burst is curse, frag and wrath. With changes Proxy (in small scale) is no longer an option. Overload can be in there, but im gonna guess ur the type of player whom roll dodges and pwnz overload.

We can shield stack (I don't fyi) but it'll have to be two wards on main bar (silly maybe, maybe not) but that seems like a bit much.

I didn't think sorcs were thriving, more like at most an edge if not on par.

Then again I never saw many sorcs in pvp, always the minority in my experience.

Rakkul · April 2016

Firerock2 wrote: »

XZS2JHub17_ESO wrote: »

Firerock2 wrote: »

I always love a good laugh.

XZS2JHub17_ESO wrote: »

Shield reduction isn't what this post is about, matter of fact I don't mind it, as I rarely even use hardened ward. What this post is about is the fact that sorcs are getting only nerfed and becoming more and more useless further down the patches. What I want to see is some damn balance in the class, change the skills no one uses anymore or buff them so people start using them. Something! at this rate it'll be a laughing stock if you play a sorc, no one will want to play with a sorc cause they will suck really bad, and other classes can do a better job at everything except summoning pets.

If one class is far better than the other classes you should expect to see gradual nerfs until it is in line with the rest. Besides, what has happened on the PTS isn't even a nerf to sorc's, I'm sorry if you can't understand this.

shield duration going from 20 seconds to 6 seconds isn't a nerf? :Wutface: anyways that doesn't matter, what does is that sorcs are just falling behind every patch, due to the imbalance in our skill tree. I don't know if you have a sorc yourself or not, but what you said about gradual nerfs aren't strictly true, I wish it was.

You can also put it this way: sorcs are known for their wards, because they absorb physical and magical damage. Well guess what. Harness magicka also absorbs physical as well as magicka AND restores magicka on spell dmg hit now. It's better than hardened ward. And I don't know if ZOS tried to do something about shield stacking, but the matter of fact is, I think they just made it worse.

Oh please, the change to hardened ward won't even be noticeable if you aren't complete trash. Sorc's benefit from the Harness magicka buff the most because they are the class that mainly relies on shield stacking. You even said the shield stacking will be worse now. You are right on one thing though, what I said about gradual nerfs isn't true. There really hasn't been any big nerfs at all for sorc's in over a year, they are still running around infinitely spamming shields and bursting down people with ridiculous damage numbers all because they just need to stack into one resource to get damage, tankiness, and sustain. If you can't tell, magicka sorc's thrive in this meta and they have for over a year now.

This sums the issue up - but not as the poster meant.
Why?
Because there is pve as well as pvp.
And the Sorc DB changes completely ignore the pve side of the game.
They are half-assed changes because they only take into account half the game. What sort of development team only looks at half the game they created? Baffled by the devs lack of thought behind these changes that fail to recognize their own content.

Firerock2 · April 2016

Rakkul wrote: »

Firerock2 wrote: »

XZS2JHub17_ESO wrote: »

Firerock2 wrote: »

I always love a good laugh.

XZS2JHub17_ESO wrote: »

Shield reduction isn't what this post is about, matter of fact I don't mind it, as I rarely even use hardened ward. What this post is about is the fact that sorcs are getting only nerfed and becoming more and more useless further down the patches. What I want to see is some damn balance in the class, change the skills no one uses anymore or buff them so people start using them. Something! at this rate it'll be a laughing stock if you play a sorc, no one will want to play with a sorc cause they will suck really bad, and other classes can do a better job at everything except summoning pets.

If one class is far better than the other classes you should expect to see gradual nerfs until it is in line with the rest. Besides, what has happened on the PTS isn't even a nerf to sorc's, I'm sorry if you can't understand this.

shield duration going from 20 seconds to 6 seconds isn't a nerf? :Wutface: anyways that doesn't matter, what does is that sorcs are just falling behind every patch, due to the imbalance in our skill tree. I don't know if you have a sorc yourself or not, but what you said about gradual nerfs aren't strictly true, I wish it was.

You can also put it this way: sorcs are known for their wards, because they absorb physical and magical damage. Well guess what. Harness magicka also absorbs physical as well as magicka AND restores magicka on spell dmg hit now. It's better than hardened ward. And I don't know if ZOS tried to do something about shield stacking, but the matter of fact is, I think they just made it worse.

Oh please, the change to hardened ward won't even be noticeable if you aren't complete trash. Sorc's benefit from the Harness magicka buff the most because they are the class that mainly relies on shield stacking. You even said the shield stacking will be worse now. You are right on one thing though, what I said about gradual nerfs isn't true. There really hasn't been any big nerfs at all for sorc's in over a year, they are still running around infinitely spamming shields and bursting down people with ridiculous damage numbers all because they just need to stack into one resource to get damage, tankiness, and sustain. If you can't tell, magicka sorc's thrive in this meta and they have for over a year now.

This sums the issue up - but not as the poster meant.
Why?
Because there is pve as well as pvp.
And the Sorc DB changes completely ignore the pve side of the game.
They are half-assed changes because they only take into account half the game. What sort of development team only looks at half the game they created? Baffled by the devs lack of thought behind these changes that fail to recognize their own content.

Yeah sure, a 6 second shield spells death for sorc's in pve. Sorc's were already on the edge of uselessness in pve but this just pushes them over. They just can't compete damage wise and now they won't be able to survive, right? ***! Why didn't we reroll during the bonus xp week!?

6 second shields are far from being half-assed changes. I do agree though that PvE balance and PvP balance screw each other over but this shield change is not a huge blow to sorc's and they are not what this thread title suggests they are.