Let's Talk About Conjured Ward

Pepper8Jack · April 2016

While I have long agreed that shield stacking needed to be fixed in PvP, this particular avenue was not the right choice.
This change gives magicka sorcs two options:

1. Suffer in damage compared to other classes (unless you are spamming overload) in order to add health and resistances to allow you to not have to keep your shields up constantly.

2. Suffer in damage compared to other classes (unless you are spamming overload) in order to add regen so that you can recast your shields every 6 seconds.

In other words, sorcs will stack regen and ultimate generation in order to keep their shields and overload up.
Mark my words, this change will make sorcs the biggest one-trick ponies in MMO history.

If this sticks, either my main will be turned exclusively into a healer, or retired, because nothing sounds less interesting than:
Overload, Overload, Ward. Overload, Overload, Ward. Overload, Overload, Ward. Overload, Overload, Ward.....

Here's hoping the PTS players will prove me wrong.

Mojmir · April 2016

nah let's not,sorcs had their day/year in the sun, and I've played sorc,it was easy mode.

Lutallo · April 2016

How unimaginable.... Having to sacrifice damage for tankiness? Having to sacrifice damage for regen? Welcome to every single other class in the game. L2P.

Serenityx · April 2016

ZOS please don't nerf my infinite sustainability buttons

Waffennacht · April 2016

um, this has no effect on my sorc at all. I've always had hardened on every bar and only hardened. I hit the ward at least every 6 secs as is.

In solo play I'm sure I hit it more often.

Now my excuse to hit the ward to proc frag is completely valid.

It also makes my Trinimac Pet build even better in PvE solo or group play.

ALSO, this makes mark of the Pariah set even better for sorcs to wear, as a Jewelry set you can get maximum resist and still wear 5 light armor.

I'll suggest dropping having 3 wards on your back bar and place one on each bar, you can still reliably stack 2 wards.

STEVIL · April 2016

Yeah its a new paradigm for sorcs but not dead dead dead.

Surge healing plus pets with other choices. Sounds like it moved sorcs from one-true-shield wayism to finding different solutions.

I agree on pariah. Have it on my stamblade, same wsy, with mediums, for same reason. Coupled with vamp undesth and dynamics as health drops gets fun.

Expecting similar.

Pepper8Jack · April 2016

Lutallo wrote: »

How unimaginable.... Having to sacrifice damage for tankiness? Having to sacrifice damage for regen? Welcome to every single other class in the game. L2P.

I never said either of those things were bad, the issue is that sorc damage falls behind other DPS classes who have better sustain and tankiness built into their class. To get damage on par with other magicka classes, sorcs have to live with sub-par resistance and regen. To get resistance or regen on par with other magicka classes, sorcs have to live with sub-par damage.

The issue isn't that the glass cannon builds are now actually glass cannons. The issue is that now sorcs are placed at an innate disadvantage to a lack of passive resistance, sustain, and damage bonuses present in other classes.

Add in every other class getting a comparable ward through the annulment change and sorcs go from having an OP shield to having the same shield as every other class, but not getting the same benefits in other areas as those other classes.

Pepper8Jack · April 2016

Waffennacht wrote: »

um, this has no effect on my sorc at all. I've always had hardened on every bar and only hardened. I hit the ward at least every 6 secs as is.

In solo play I'm sure I hit it more often.

Now my excuse to hit the ward to proc frag is completely valid.

It also makes my Trinimac Pet build even better in PvE solo or group play.

ALSO, this makes mark of the Pariah set even better for sorcs to wear, as a Jewelry set you can get maximum resist and still wear 5 light armor.

I'll suggest dropping having 3 wards on your back bar and place one on each bar, you can still reliably stack 2 wards.

At the moment my sorc runs only hardened on my front bar, so don't take this as a "I can't stack shields anymore!!" cryfest because I never did, and agreed that it was a problem.

I simply think this change was too dramatic when coupled with the other changes being made this patch. I sincerely wish they would've gone with the major, minor buff system for shields instead. As is, there's little incentive to run ward over harness magicka due to the magic return and equal uptime, so what was once a class defining feature is now replaced by an arguably better ability that is accessible to all classes. Yet at the same time, there is no buff or tradeoff to compensate for that.

I don't like this change for the same reason I wouldn't want to see cloak nerfed and made an armor ability, it is a class-defining feature that caters to a specific playstyle that the class was designed for. What is the point of being a sorc with this change?

I would love a glimpse into the devs' minds about what the unique, designed playstyle is supposed to be for sorcs. It certainly seem like they just want us to run pets.

STEVIL · April 2016

Pepper8Jack wrote: »

The issue isn't that the glass cannon builds are now actually glass cannons. The issue is that now sorcs are placed at an innate disadvantage to a lack of passive resistance, sustain, and damage bonuses present in other classes.

.

playtest day one and so changes and testing may yet provide some tweaks. i expect things may move to a happier medium.

But for me, i dont see the innate disadvantage. Sure the might be lower in some areas but sorc have as many passives as other classes and they synergize well, so things are different, not necessarily inferior.

Change might shift focus toward more dark magic use to proc its heal, for instance.

Key is to
See changes in play
Analyze options to improve
Change tactics and strategery
Kill enemies

SACK!!!

Serenityx · April 2016

Pepper8Jack wrote: »

Lutallo wrote: »

How unimaginable.... Having to sacrifice damage for tankiness? Having to sacrifice damage for regen? Welcome to every single other class in the game. L2P.

I never said either of those things were bad, the issue is that sorc damage falls behind other DPS classes who have better sustain and tankiness built into their class. To get damage on par with other magicka classes, sorcs have to live with sub-par resistance and regen. To get resistance or regen on par with other magicka classes, sorcs have to live with sub-par damage.

The issue isn't that the glass cannon builds are now actually glass cannons. The issue is that now sorcs are placed at an innate disadvantage to a lack of passive resistance, sustain, and damage bonuses present in other classes.

Add in every other class getting a comparable ward through the annulment change and sorcs go from having an OP shield to having the same shield as every other class, but not getting the same benefits in other areas as those other classes.

You get 2 extra shields to stack with annul plus major resolve/major ward from lightning form and morphs. Did they change lightning form resistance buffs? Night blades don't have 2 extra shields to stack or do they get a major ward/resolve class ability. Your overload ulti scales with your magicka pool.

How is any of this unfair to sorcs?

leepalmer95 · April 2016

Serenityx wrote: »

Pepper8Jack wrote: »

Lutallo wrote: »

How unimaginable.... Having to sacrifice damage for tankiness? Having to sacrifice damage for regen? Welcome to every single other class in the game. L2P.

I never said either of those things were bad, the issue is that sorc damage falls behind other DPS classes who have better sustain and tankiness built into their class. To get damage on par with other magicka classes, sorcs have to live with sub-par resistance and regen. To get resistance or regen on par with other magicka classes, sorcs have to live with sub-par damage.

The issue isn't that the glass cannon builds are now actually glass cannons. The issue is that now sorcs are placed at an innate disadvantage to a lack of passive resistance, sustain, and damage bonuses present in other classes.

Add in every other class getting a comparable ward through the annulment change and sorcs go from having an OP shield to having the same shield as every other class, but not getting the same benefits in other areas as those other classes.

You get 2 extra shields to stack with annul plus major resolve/major ward from lightning form and morphs. Did they change lightning form resistance buffs? Night blades don't have 2 extra shields to stack or do they get a major ward/resolve class ability. Your overload ulti scales with your magicka pool.

How is any of this unfair to sorcs?

Nah nb's just inherintly get major ward/resolve while using cloak and sa/concealed it's just kind of built in to the class while every other class has to waste a skill slot and keep up the buff manually. Yeah nb's have it real hard there.

Pepper8Jack wrote: »

Lutallo wrote: »

How unimaginable.... Having to sacrifice damage for tankiness? Having to sacrifice damage for regen? Welcome to every single other class in the game. L2P.

I never said either of those things were bad, the issue is that sorc damage falls behind other DPS classes who have better sustain and tankiness built into their class. To get damage on par with other magicka classes, sorcs have to live with sub-par resistance and regen. To get resistance or regen on par with other magicka classes, sorcs have to live with sub-par damage.

The issue isn't that the glass cannon builds are now actually glass cannons. The issue is that now sorcs are placed at an innate disadvantage to a lack of passive resistance, sustain, and damage bonuses present in other classes.

Add in every other class getting a comparable ward through the annulment change and sorcs go from having an OP shield to having the same shield as every other class, but not getting the same benefits in other areas as those other classes.

So sorc having to give up dmg and sustain for survivability is glass cannon?

Sub - par dmg huh? Sorc have passive that grant spell dmg, passive to increase mag magicka... seems to really be struggling for dmg there. Want to see a class that struggles for dmg try playing a dk instead of easy mode sorc.

Johngo0036 · April 2016

I dunno what all the fuss is about,
When Stam NB got nerfed all the sorcs rejoiced,
when DK had the living bejesus nerfed out of them sorcs rejoiced,
When templars were so crappy to start with sorc rejoiced....

Shields being nerfed was coming..
There are new traits that can assist sorcs with getting their armour increased..

You are no worse off than templars or dks now..

About time...#nerfsorcs... lol

Serenityx · April 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Serenityx wrote: »

Pepper8Jack wrote: »

Lutallo wrote: »

How unimaginable.... Having to sacrifice damage for tankiness? Having to sacrifice damage for regen? Welcome to every single other class in the game. L2P.

I never said either of those things were bad, the issue is that sorc damage falls behind other DPS classes who have better sustain and tankiness built into their class. To get damage on par with other magicka classes, sorcs have to live with sub-par resistance and regen. To get resistance or regen on par with other magicka classes, sorcs have to live with sub-par damage.

The issue isn't that the glass cannon builds are now actually glass cannons. The issue is that now sorcs are placed at an innate disadvantage to a lack of passive resistance, sustain, and damage bonuses present in other classes.

Add in every other class getting a comparable ward through the annulment change and sorcs go from having an OP shield to having the same shield as every other class, but not getting the same benefits in other areas as those other classes.

You get 2 extra shields to stack with annul plus major resolve/major ward from lightning form and morphs. Did they change lightning form resistance buffs? Night blades don't have 2 extra shields to stack or do they get a major ward/resolve class ability. Your overload ulti scales with your magicka pool.

How is any of this unfair to sorcs?

Nah nb's just inherintly get major ward/resolve while using cloak and sa/concealed it's just kind of built in to the class while every other class has to waste a skill slot and keep up the buff manually. Yeah nb's have it real hard there.

I'm sorry, but as a stam nb I get 3-4 cloaks before I have to use a potion to get more magicka for an extra 3-4 more. Keep in mind, it only lasts 2.5 seconds. That is 20 seconds of sustainability at most and in 2.5 second intervals AND if I don't get detected, sprinting and lots of other actions cancel this ability as well. If I had access to the cloak tooltip, I'd happily share it with you so you could see "major ward/resolve" is completely absent from the the text describing the ability.

LOL at your entire argument. Re-roll any other class in the game and l2fp.

Pepper8Jack · April 2016

Loving all the assumptions that I, or anyone else speaking out against this change for that matter, hasn't ever played any other class.

Also, disagreeing with an excessive nerf (not even the nerf itself, just the magnitude and choice means of the nerf) doesn't inherently imply that one doesn't know how to play.

I speak from experience, I'm not just pulling things out of thin air. Must I list my accomplishments on my other characters of every class before my opinion be considered?

olsborg · April 2016

Nerf was needed, but this particular nerf was not the right way, duration should be atleast 10s, + adding a hardened ward to every magicka class with light armor skill was .....extremely bad choice.

Pepper8Jack · April 2016

olsborg wrote: »

Nerf was needed, but this particular nerf was not the right way, duration should be atleast 10s, + adding a hardened ward to every magicka class with light armor skill was .....extremely bad choice.

Agreed.

As STEVIL said, active sorcs will recast their shields before the 6s is up anyways, so this doesn't resolve the issue. The issue has never been duration, it had always been the ability to stack shields (as well as the inability to crit shields). Reducing the duration will not lessen the shield spam, and if anything, the changes to annulment only make the issue more prevalent across all magicka classes, as annulment+healing ward will still be very much a thing.

If you want to fix the shield spam, get rid of shield stacking. Cutting the duration to 1/3 doesn't eliminate shield stacking.

Jaronking · April 2016

Serenityx wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Serenityx wrote: »

Pepper8Jack wrote: »

Lutallo wrote: »

How unimaginable.... Having to sacrifice damage for tankiness? Having to sacrifice damage for regen? Welcome to every single other class in the game. L2P.

I never said either of those things were bad, the issue is that sorc damage falls behind other DPS classes who have better sustain and tankiness built into their class. To get damage on par with other magicka classes, sorcs have to live with sub-par resistance and regen. To get resistance or regen on par with other magicka classes, sorcs have to live with sub-par damage.

The issue isn't that the glass cannon builds are now actually glass cannons. The issue is that now sorcs are placed at an innate disadvantage to a lack of passive resistance, sustain, and damage bonuses present in other classes.

Add in every other class getting a comparable ward through the annulment change and sorcs go from having an OP shield to having the same shield as every other class, but not getting the same benefits in other areas as those other classes.

You get 2 extra shields to stack with annul plus major resolve/major ward from lightning form and morphs. Did they change lightning form resistance buffs? Night blades don't have 2 extra shields to stack or do they get a major ward/resolve class ability. Your overload ulti scales with your magicka pool.

How is any of this unfair to sorcs?

Nah nb's just inherintly get major ward/resolve while using cloak and sa/concealed it's just kind of built in to the class while every other class has to waste a skill slot and keep up the buff manually. Yeah nb's have it real hard there.

I'm sorry, but as a stam nb I get 3-4 cloaks before I have to use a potion to get more magicka for an extra 3-4 more. Keep in mind, it only lasts 2.5 seconds. That is 20 seconds of sustainability at most and in 2.5 second intervals AND if I don't get detected, sprinting and lots of other actions cancel this ability as well. If I had access to the cloak tooltip, I'd happily share it with you so you could see "major ward/resolve" is completely absent from the the text describing the ability.

LOL at your entire argument. Re-roll any other class in the game and l2fp.

You most not know Nb then because you obviously don't know our passives.Shadow Barrier give you major ward and major resolve whenever you use a shadow ability. So whenever you use surprise attack or dark claok the passive actives and you get major ward and resolve.So he was actually correct.

Also if you can't get away after 4 cloaks then yea that's a L2P problem coming from a Stam NB.1-2 Dodge roll and 2 cloaks to regain stamina and go sneak and your good.

leepalmer95 · April 2016

Serenityx wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Serenityx wrote: »

Pepper8Jack wrote: »

Lutallo wrote: »

How unimaginable.... Having to sacrifice damage for tankiness? Having to sacrifice damage for regen? Welcome to every single other class in the game. L2P.

I never said either of those things were bad, the issue is that sorc damage falls behind other DPS classes who have better sustain and tankiness built into their class. To get damage on par with other magicka classes, sorcs have to live with sub-par resistance and regen. To get resistance or regen on par with other magicka classes, sorcs have to live with sub-par damage.

The issue isn't that the glass cannon builds are now actually glass cannons. The issue is that now sorcs are placed at an innate disadvantage to a lack of passive resistance, sustain, and damage bonuses present in other classes.

Add in every other class getting a comparable ward through the annulment change and sorcs go from having an OP shield to having the same shield as every other class, but not getting the same benefits in other areas as those other classes.

You get 2 extra shields to stack with annul plus major resolve/major ward from lightning form and morphs. Did they change lightning form resistance buffs? Night blades don't have 2 extra shields to stack or do they get a major ward/resolve class ability. Your overload ulti scales with your magicka pool.

How is any of this unfair to sorcs?

Nah nb's just inherintly get major ward/resolve while using cloak and sa/concealed it's just kind of built in to the class while every other class has to waste a skill slot and keep up the buff manually. Yeah nb's have it real hard there.

I'm sorry, but as a stam nb I get 3-4 cloaks before I have to use a potion to get more magicka for an extra 3-4 more. Keep in mind, it only lasts 2.5 seconds. That is 20 seconds of sustainability at most and in 2.5 second intervals AND if I don't get detected, sprinting and lots of other actions cancel this ability as well. If I had access to the cloak tooltip, I'd happily share it with you so you could see "major ward/resolve" is completely absent from the the text describing the ability.

LOL at your entire argument. Re-roll any other class in the game and l2fp.

Someone's a complete nb noob aren't they? I have every character at v16 xD Played both stamina and magicka on them all.

Go re read passive.

Also cloak lasts for 2.9s, not 2.5s

You use SA you get the armour buff.

Go learn your class and l2fp.

STEVIL · April 2016

Hey, look, the sun came up this morning. Day 2 of pkaytest and no armageddon.

:-)

i like the approach.

Instead of just making a cap on shield strength by limits on stacking or lowering values, they made it more tactical option trade off thing.

If you want to rely on shields, you gotta give up main bar slots and plan on frequent casts esp if you want stacked. Lotsa shield weaing instead of shock weaving. TRINIMAC looking better.

Any interruption to your sequence is lethal or possibly very risky so watch for anything that can silence you or interrupt.

Desirability of upping defenses other than shields moves up so maybe the HEAVY ARMOR option looks better along with the daedric and/or lightning.

I just think the old meta of having 2-3 of 10 slots being shields is less an automatic thing now.

But analysis, plsytest, changes and rethinking willtell and style and skill will win the day.

sluice · April 2016

You guys are right in saying that it won't fix shield Stacking.. but making all shield last only 6 seconds, will definitely change their play style.. Everytime they have to put their shield up, they are not attacking you...

Yeah, some will re-cast their shield every 6 seconds... but dammm this will be deeply hurt their DPS.

I'm suddenly not as scared in duelings a sorcerer 1v1 with my nightblade.

Magdalina · April 2016

sluice wrote: »

You guys are right in saying that it won't fix shield Stacking.. but making all shield last only 6 seconds, will definitely change their play style.. Everytime they have to put their shield up, they are not attacking you...

Yeah, some will re-cast their shield every 6 seconds... but dammm this will be deeply hurt their DPS.

I'm suddenly not as scared in duelings a sorcerer 1v1 with my nightblade.

For the good PvP sorcs out there with low ping this is a buff.

If your NB is stamina they now will be able to stack whole 20k+ shield against him/her as opposed to ~12k before.

For everyone else out there and those of us who like PvE...yeah kinda sucks. Not so much because omg can't live without 20 second shield, because what else do sorcs really have going for them in PvE?

Waffennacht · April 2016

True, true.

Not something I considered.

With annulment being all damage, all classes have access to very powerful wards and buffs.

Sorcs kinda lost any identity with this patch.

No spammable dps, Soon a major debuff to Mines, Curse and Det, until they actually proc Power Surge they just lost DoT status with all the drawbacks of DoTs. Wards that are comparable.

I know they wanna make pets viable, please make it where the select highlight makes the pets target that opponent for console.

Im more upset about the change to nirnhoned, good thing I didn't go all out on gear just yet.

The thing Im really happy for, is bound armor wont make me shredder!

leepalmer95 · April 2016

Magdalina wrote: »

sluice wrote: »

You guys are right in saying that it won't fix shield Stacking.. but making all shield last only 6 seconds, will definitely change their play style.. Everytime they have to put their shield up, they are not attacking you...

Yeah, some will re-cast their shield every 6 seconds... but dammm this will be deeply hurt their DPS.

I'm suddenly not as scared in duelings a sorcerer 1v1 with my nightblade.

For the good PvP sorcs out there with low ping this is a buff.

If your NB is stamina they now will be able to stack whole 20k+ shield against him/her as opposed to ~12k before.

For everyone else out there and those of us who like PvE...yeah kinda sucks. Not so much because omg can't live without 20 second shield, because what else do sorcs really have going for them in PvE?

... Overload?

antihero727 · April 2016

Johngo0036 wrote: »

I dunno what all the fuss is about,
When Stam NB got nerfed all the sorcs rejoiced,
when DK had the living bejesus nerfed out of them sorcs rejoiced,
When templars were so crappy to start with sorc rejoiced....

Shields being nerfed was coming..
There are new traits that can assist sorcs with getting their armour increased..

You are no worse off than templars or dks now..

About time...#nerfsorcs... lol

You have no idea what your talking about. Sorcs have always been hated over all others. The damage used to be OP but has been watered down over the past 2 years. A shield on a sorc, a Jesus beam on a Templar, a leap on a DK and a cloke on a NB. They are all class defining skills. ZOS has buffed almost all classes besides Dunmar Dk and magica sorcs. They have given stam users a viable shield, extra self heals and buffs to damage abilitys. Have your cake and eat it to as magica sorc has become a Negate machine in PvP now. Rip sorc I will miss you.

notimetocare · April 2016

Pepper8Jack wrote: »

While I have long agreed that shield stacking needed to be fixed in PvP, this particular avenue was not the right choice.
This change gives magicka sorcs two options:

1. Suffer in damage compared to other classes (unless you are spamming overload) in order to add health and resistances to allow you to not have to keep your shields up constantly.

2. Suffer in damage compared to other classes (unless you are spamming overload) in order to add regen so that you can recast your shields every 6 seconds.

In other words, sorcs will stack regen and ultimate generation in order to keep their shields and overload up.
Mark my words, this change will make sorcs the biggest one-trick ponies in MMO history.

If this sticks, either my main will be turned exclusively into a healer, or retired, because nothing sounds less interesting than:
Overload, Overload, Ward. Overload, Overload, Ward. Overload, Overload, Ward. Overload, Overload, Ward.....

Here's hoping the PTS players will prove me wrong.

Sorc has always been a 1 trick pony... Ward, spam, ward, spam, ward, spam... Thsi was the best way to rebalance this wards. You can still shield stack in pvp, but cant put out heavy pressure for 20 seconds doingit. And most pve doesnt bother with wards, and when you do you are using them constantly (vMSA) or when something big is coming (known boss aoe)

Bandit1215 · April 2016

Woah hold on just one moment sir! You're telling me that, as a Sorc and a Sorc ONLY, I need to sacrifice DAMAGE for SURVIVABILITY, or SURVIVABILITY for DAMAGE!?!?! *insert intense sarcasm*

Welcome to every other class in the game, now Sorc need to L2P like everyone else. ..

myrrrorb14_ESO · April 2016

Shields needed to be adjusted and I am sure this was meant as a PvP nerf. But 6s shield hurts PvE solo player more than anything else.

In PvE I put my shield on my back bar. AI mobs are slow and stupid. Buff before the fight and everything dies before your shield drops.

In PvP I have my shield on active bar. There is no time to switch bars and shields need to be reapplied often since they only last about two hits. So I refresh every 6 seconds or so during a fight.

I will agree with whoever suggested a 10 second duration. Seems a reasonable compromise. Although I would live it to stay at current live durations in PvE only. But it is too much to hope that they will seperate the abilities.

Magdalina · April 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

sluice wrote: »

You guys are right in saying that it won't fix shield Stacking.. but making all shield last only 6 seconds, will definitely change their play style.. Everytime they have to put their shield up, they are not attacking you...

Yeah, some will re-cast their shield every 6 seconds... but dammm this will be deeply hurt their DPS.

I'm suddenly not as scared in duelings a sorcerer 1v1 with my nightblade.

For the good PvP sorcs out there with low ping this is a buff.

If your NB is stamina they now will be able to stack whole 20k+ shield against him/her as opposed to ~12k before.

For everyone else out there and those of us who like PvE...yeah kinda sucks. Not so much because omg can't live without 20 second shield, because what else do sorcs really have going for them in PvE?

... Overload?

You mean that ultimate that bugs out literally every third attack and already gets outdps'd by magplars and magblades(who also don't have to sacrifice ulti-ing trash in order to save that 1k ulti)?