Lisbette wrote: »

Stamina hits way harder than Magicka (intended) so having an ult that doesn't scale with CP was never a big issue for them.

? Any class short of mag dks and magplars can hit hard. My mageblade says hello. My magsorc is also unimpressed. Combo proxy with VD + streak/frag + meteor. Guaranteed to wipe the floor with anyone provided you time them right. And stamina hasssss gank blades and Wb spammers.

Stamina stacks higher weapon damage while mag gets more mag pool. Essentially evens out.

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

This is now going to be on all of my stamina characters. Magicka has meteor, stamina has Dawnbreaker. Finally, stamina has something good to use as an ultimate.

Flawless would have been enough.

Smiting should still be magic damage for melee templars and magicka vamp hunters.

Meteor is an all purpose ult. Dawnbreaker is more of a niche ult as it does more damage on undead and daedra.

I play a stam character and am vouching for smiting to go back to magic damage.

Sure. I play mag too so it's legit when I vouch for a stam ice comet and a stam standard. While we are at it how about stam frags and a stam whip.

Nothing is stopping you from slotting db of smiting even as a mag build to be a vamp slayer. It still does *** Ton of damage to undead the same way meteor and standard does *** ton of damage on Phy builds. You just don't get an extra 25% from cp is all. Both morphs will be needed by stamina builds the same way whip is needed on mag builds.

Flawless -->pve
Db of smiting --> pvp

DB of smiting is going to be my New stam go to ult for dk cos leap is so gimpy and its damaged got toned down. Db of smiting does sick damage and costs less.

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

This is now going to be on all of my stamina characters. Magicka has meteor, stamina has Dawnbreaker. Finally, stamina has something good to use as an ultimate.

Flawless would have been enough.

Smiting should still be magic damage for melee templars and magicka vamp hunters.

Meteor is an all purpose ult. Dawnbreaker is more of a niche ult as it does more damage on undead and daedra.

I play a stam character and am vouching for smiting to go back to magic damage.

Sure. I play mag too so it's legit when I vouch for a stam ice comet and a stam standard. While we are at it how about stam frags and a stam whip.

Nothing is stopping you from slotting db of smiting even as a mag build to be a vamp slayer. It still does *** Ton of damage to undead the same way meteor and standard does *** ton of damage on Phy builds. You just don't get an extra 25% from cp is all.

Lore wise, there are mages in the fighters guild, like how you can ask for a prismatic staff in the quest.
This decision looks rushed. They didn't look at the whole picture.

A magicka vamp hunter should be able to do max damage potential to vamps. That is cp AND anti-vamp magic. Btw, Dawnbreaker is a holy magic sword blessed by Meridia is it not?

Stam whip i have vouched for in the past and I'm not against stam frags.

Again... You can still slot db of smiting as a mag toon. You just lose 25% scaling. The same way my dk slots standard or meteor when needed. You can't have everything your way. 80% of class skills, 90% of ultis are all magicka. Bats, meteor, nova, overload etc etc. Make use of one of the other 103820022 mag ultis if you really want that 25% scaling. Also lore be damned considering zos just gave dks poison spit. Even Alduin couldn't do poison breath.

You people keep complaining about how mag needs this but fail to consider all stam has to choose from for ultis is db, incap and leap. That's 3 ultimates and 2 of those are class restricted. How hard is it to comprehend that db of smiting does much more damage than flawless db? In pvp it's going to be the choice pick for most stamina builds considering they changed the Passives in fg to provide 3% bonus for each fg ability slotted. I can slot camo hunter with db of smiting for example and still get some bonus weapon damage which makes it a very reasonable pick over slotting flawless db. Flawless will still be TOP pick for pve but in pvp its player choice. The same way some people slot shooting star vs ice comet. To each their own.

jbcrocks wrote: »

I want my dawnbreaker back to mag!!

again... that won't happen

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

This is now going to be on all of my stamina characters. Magicka has meteor, stamina has Dawnbreaker. Finally, stamina has something good to use as an ultimate.

Flawless would have been enough.

Smiting should still be magic damage for melee templars and magicka vamp hunters.

Meteor is an all purpose ult. Dawnbreaker is more of a niche ult as it does more damage on undead and daedra.

I play a stam character and am vouching for smiting to go back to magic damage.

Sure. I play mag too so it's legit when I vouch for a stam ice comet and a stam standard. While we are at it how about stam frags and a stam whip.

Nothing is stopping you from slotting db of smiting even as a mag build to be a vamp slayer. It still does *** Ton of damage to undead the same way meteor and standard does *** ton of damage on Phy builds. You just don't get an extra 25% from cp is all.

Lore wise, there are mages in the fighters guild, like how you can ask for a prismatic staff in the quest.
This decision looks rushed. They didn't look at the whole picture.

A magicka vamp hunter should be able to do max damage potential to vamps. That is cp AND anti-vamp magic. Btw, Dawnbreaker is a holy magic sword blessed by Meridia is it not?

Stam whip i have vouched for in the past and I'm not against stam frags.

I don't know why I need to keep pointing this out, but Dawnbreaker and Fighters Guild abilities are no longer that powerful against Vamps.

Dawnbreaker: This ability and its morphs no longer deal bonus damage to Undead and Daedra, and now deals Physical Damage instead of Magic Damage.

This means the this Ultimate has lost the 60% damage increase to undead.

People need to stop crying that they are losing their ability to kill vamps. Even stam characters will not be hitting Vamps near as hard in this patch.

Dawnbreaker now gets an extra 25% from Mighty, and 20% from Skilled Tracker totalling a 45% increase against Vamps for stamina builds. However, this will be a decrease of 15% damage compared to the TG patch since they removed the 60% against vamps.

Essentially Stam builds can use it to do 45% increased damage to undead/daedra. Magicka builds can use it to do 20% damage to undead/daedra.

You can complain to get it back as a Magicka skill, but even if you got it back, it will be much less effective than it was.

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

This is now going to be on all of my stamina characters. Magicka has meteor, stamina has Dawnbreaker. Finally, stamina has something good to use as an ultimate.

Flawless would have been enough.

Smiting should still be magic damage for melee templars and magicka vamp hunters.

Meteor is an all purpose ult. Dawnbreaker is more of a niche ult as it does more damage on undead and daedra.

I play a stam character and am vouching for smiting to go back to magic damage.

Sure. I play mag too so it's legit when I vouch for a stam ice comet and a stam standard. While we are at it how about stam frags and a stam whip.

Nothing is stopping you from slotting db of smiting even as a mag build to be a vamp slayer. It still does *** Ton of damage to undead the same way meteor and standard does *** ton of damage on Phy builds. You just don't get an extra 25% from cp is all.

Lore wise, there are mages in the fighters guild, like how you can ask for a prismatic staff in the quest.
This decision looks rushed. They didn't look at the whole picture.

A magicka vamp hunter should be able to do max damage potential to vamps. That is cp AND anti-vamp magic. Btw, Dawnbreaker is a holy magic sword blessed by Meridia is it not?

Stam whip i have vouched for in the past and I'm not against stam frags.

I don't know why I need to keep pointing this out, but Dawnbreaker and Fighters Guild abilities are no longer that powerful against Vamps.

Dawnbreaker: This ability and its morphs no longer deal bonus damage to Undead and Daedra, and now deals Physical Damage instead of Magic Damage.

This means the this Ultimate has lost the 60% damage increase to undead.

People need to stop crying that they are losing their ability to kill vamps. Even stam characters will not be hitting Vamps near as hard in this patch.

Dawnbreaker now gets an extra 25% from Mighty, and 20% from Skilled Tracker totalling a 45% increase against Vamps for stamina builds. However, this will be a decrease of 15% damage compared to the TG patch since they removed the 60% against vamps.

Essentially Stam builds can use it to do 45% increased damage to undead/daedra. Magicka builds can use it to do 20% damage to undead/daedra.

You can complain to get it back as a Magicka skill, but even if you got it back, it will be much less effective than it was.

Vamps will be op then.

At least if smiting was magic damage, magicka vamp hunters can have 25% ele expert and 20% skilled tracker to fight vamps, but now they only get 20%. It makes it so only stam builds can be vamp hunters.

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

This is now going to be on all of my stamina characters. Magicka has meteor, stamina has Dawnbreaker. Finally, stamina has something good to use as an ultimate.

Flawless would have been enough.

Smiting should still be magic damage for melee templars and magicka vamp hunters.

Meteor is an all purpose ult. Dawnbreaker is more of a niche ult as it does more damage on undead and daedra.

I play a stam character and am vouching for smiting to go back to magic damage.

Sure. I play mag too so it's legit when I vouch for a stam ice comet and a stam standard. While we are at it how about stam frags and a stam whip.

Nothing is stopping you from slotting db of smiting even as a mag build to be a vamp slayer. It still does *** Ton of damage to undead the same way meteor and standard does *** ton of damage on Phy builds. You just don't get an extra 25% from cp is all.

Lore wise, there are mages in the fighters guild, like how you can ask for a prismatic staff in the quest.
This decision looks rushed. They didn't look at the whole picture.

A magicka vamp hunter should be able to do max damage potential to vamps. That is cp AND anti-vamp magic. Btw, Dawnbreaker is a holy magic sword blessed by Meridia is it not?

Stam whip i have vouched for in the past and I'm not against stam frags.

I don't know why I need to keep pointing this out, but Dawnbreaker and Fighters Guild abilities are no longer that powerful against Vamps.

Dawnbreaker: This ability and its morphs no longer deal bonus damage to Undead and Daedra, and now deals Physical Damage instead of Magic Damage.

This means the this Ultimate has lost the 60% damage increase to undead.

People need to stop crying that they are losing their ability to kill vamps. Even stam characters will not be hitting Vamps near as hard in this patch.

Dawnbreaker now gets an extra 25% from Mighty, and 20% from Skilled Tracker totalling a 45% increase against Vamps for stamina builds. However, this will be a decrease of 15% damage compared to the TG patch since they removed the 60% against vamps.

Essentially Stam builds can use it to do 45% increased damage to undead/daedra. Magicka builds can use it to do 20% damage to undead/daedra.

You can complain to get it back as a Magicka skill, but even if you got it back, it will be much less effective than it was.

Vamps will be op then.

At least if smiting was magic damage, magicka vamp hunters can have 25% ele expert and 20% skilled tracker to fight vamps, but now they only get 20%. It makes it so only stam builds can be vamp hunters.

omg ppl are so dishonest ! Vamps are a joke with the FG as it is now, and magicka users can slot fire damages, aka +25% dmg. What do ppl don't understand in ZOS choice : fg = stamina, mg = magicka. THEY WON'T COME BACK FROM THIS STATEMENT. Period

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

This is now going to be on all of my stamina characters. Magicka has meteor, stamina has Dawnbreaker. Finally, stamina has something good to use as an ultimate.

Flawless would have been enough.

Smiting should still be magic damage for melee templars and magicka vamp hunters.

Meteor is an all purpose ult. Dawnbreaker is more of a niche ult as it does more damage on undead and daedra.

I play a stam character and am vouching for smiting to go back to magic damage.

Sure. I play mag too so it's legit when I vouch for a stam ice comet and a stam standard. While we are at it how about stam frags and a stam whip.

Nothing is stopping you from slotting db of smiting even as a mag build to be a vamp slayer. It still does *** Ton of damage to undead the same way meteor and standard does *** ton of damage on Phy builds. You just don't get an extra 25% from cp is all.

Lore wise, there are mages in the fighters guild, like how you can ask for a prismatic staff in the quest.
This decision looks rushed. They didn't look at the whole picture.

A magicka vamp hunter should be able to do max damage potential to vamps. That is cp AND anti-vamp magic. Btw, Dawnbreaker is a holy magic sword blessed by Meridia is it not?

Stam whip i have vouched for in the past and I'm not against stam frags.

I don't know why I need to keep pointing this out, but Dawnbreaker and Fighters Guild abilities are no longer that powerful against Vamps.

Dawnbreaker: This ability and its morphs no longer deal bonus damage to Undead and Daedra, and now deals Physical Damage instead of Magic Damage.

This means the this Ultimate has lost the 60% damage increase to undead.

People need to stop crying that they are losing their ability to kill vamps. Even stam characters will not be hitting Vamps near as hard in this patch.

Dawnbreaker now gets an extra 25% from Mighty, and 20% from Skilled Tracker totalling a 45% increase against Vamps for stamina builds. However, this will be a decrease of 15% damage compared to the TG patch since they removed the 60% against vamps.

Essentially Stam builds can use it to do 45% increased damage to undead/daedra. Magicka builds can use it to do 20% damage to undead/daedra.

You can complain to get it back as a Magicka skill, but even if you got it back, it will be much less effective than it was.

Vamps will be op then.

At least if smiting was magic damage, magicka vamp hunters can have 25% ele expert and 20% skilled tracker to fight vamps, but now they only get 20%. It makes it so only stam builds can be vamp hunters.

If anything Flame based damaging Magicka builds will still be the most effective against vamps.

Even Dawnbreaker of Smiting will be far from the one shot kill against vamps that it used to be.

And once a stam build drops the Ultimate, if the vamp isn't killed, then they no longer have any increased damage to them unless they use Silver Bolts.

On the flip side, a Magicka user with an inferno staff will get 25% for Elemental Expert, and take advantage of a Vamps 25% increased damage to fire. So all your Flame damage will do 50% increased damage to Vamps, while only a stam builds Ultimate does 45% increase damage to vamps.

A Shooting Star ultimate from a magicka build will be a more effective Vamp killer than a Stam build running either morph of Dawnbreaker.

Not if he clouding swarms. Dawnbreaker was the best because you could cast without a target, so many players would dawnbreaker into the middle of the clouding swarm to stop the op win. Invisible while being able to do all your attacks plus have a powerful dot around you. In many situations, dawnbreaker was the only thing that could save you.

A stam player can still do this to some extent, but magicka players now have lost 65% of its bonus damage vs vamps (60% to 20% from passive, loss of 25% from cp).

Any Magicka build has access to the Inferno Staff, and Shooting Star. And Magicka DK has a ton of Fire Damage abilities.

All of these options are superior for killing Vampires than anything in the Fighter's Skill line, including Dawnbreaker.

Whether or not you choose to use an Inferno Staff or slot Shooting Star is your decision, but don't act like you have no options to kill Vampires.

qq

Autolycus wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Oh man I love how this thread turned from a legitimate, fair point about the two morphs into a slapping contest between stamina and magicka builds. Guys, grow up. It's not about which class or build is better. This is clearly a worthwhile topic to discuss, as many magicka users have been relying on DB of Smiting as a low-cast, magic damage ultimate for a long time now. There was no logical reason to change that specific morph, and it's clear that so many of you don't have a good reason either, since the vast majority of comments here are something like this:

"Waaaah then stam meteor waaaah"

I don't see anybody arguing this suggestion. I also don't see how it's relevant to the discussion. It's a fair point and worth discussing too, but don't derail this guy's thread over it. Start your own and discuss a stam meteor there.

As many other people have said, Smiting will be the only morph used in PvP. Stamina builds will now have one unrestricted ultimate in the game that scales off champion points. We have plenty of other ultimates that scale off Elemental Expert. This change won't stop us from using Dawnbreaker, we will just be 25% less effective with it like stamina users have been since the champion system was released.

I'm fully aware of how this skill functions and the implications of the intended changes, so I don't really need to be educated on it. Nonetheless, it was an incredibly useful skill for magicka users in pvp too. I haven't yet stated one way or another how I think it should be, my point is simply that littering the thread with whining about a stam meteor is not at all relevant to the discussion.

There are other options for magicka users, but that's not really the point. There is nothing right now that serves as an actual replacement for what Smiting was pre-DB to magicka builds in pvp, or pve either for that matter.

Meteor if used correctly is a replacement for Dawnbreaker. The Fighters guild is for stamina users only now, since they have taken out anything that was of use to us magic users, people just need to accept that and adapt.

Autolycus wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Oh man I love how this thread turned from a legitimate, fair point about the two morphs into a slapping contest between stamina and magicka builds. Guys, grow up. It's not about which class or build is better. This is clearly a worthwhile topic to discuss, as many magicka users have been relying on DB of Smiting as a low-cast, magic damage ultimate for a long time now. There was no logical reason to change that specific morph, and it's clear that so many of you don't have a good reason either, since the vast majority of comments here are something like this:

"Waaaah then stam meteor waaaah"

I don't see anybody arguing this suggestion. I also don't see how it's relevant to the discussion. It's a fair point and worth discussing too, but don't derail this guy's thread over it. Start your own and discuss a stam meteor there.

As many other people have said, Smiting will be the only morph used in PvP. Stamina builds will now have one unrestricted ultimate in the game that scales off champion points. We have plenty of other ultimates that scale off Elemental Expert. This change won't stop us from using Dawnbreaker, we will just be 25% less effective with it like stamina users have been since the champion system was released.

I'm fully aware of how this skill functions and the implications of the intended changes, so I don't really need to be educated on it. Nonetheless, it was an incredibly useful skill for magicka users in pvp too. I haven't yet stated one way or another how I think it should be, my point is simply that littering the thread with whining about a stam meteor is not at all relevant to the discussion.

There are other options for magicka users, but that's not really the point. There is nothing right now that serves as an actual replacement for what Smiting was pre-DB to magicka builds in pvp, or pve either for that matter.

Meteor if used correctly is a replacement for Dawnbreaker. The Fighters guild is for stamina users only now, since they have taken out anything that was of use to us magic users, people just need to accept that and adapt.

"Accept that and adapt" .... Basically what you are implying here is that people shouldn't have a discussion about their concerns for pending changes.

Everything in these patch notes is subject to change. Meteor is another topic altogether, but yes I agree that it is a viable substitute for dawnbreaker as a stamina build (so very many of us are already doing this). Smiting may very well be the same case for magicka users as meteor is for stamina users, but the underlying theme here is that we are seeing changes that are supposed to resolve these concerns, by shifting those problems to other players instead. Shifting the disadvantage from one set of players to another isn't the same as resolving the problem.

Agree 100%

Why not make it scale to either physical or magical depends on wich is higher, then stamina builds get their ultimate, magick builds can still use it as before. And everyone would be happy. especially since it is ment to go against undeads.

susmitds wrote: »

@Strider_Roshin

Beruge wrote: »

Why not make it scale to either physical or magical depends on wich is higher, then stamina builds get their ultimate, magick builds can still use it as before. And everyone would be happy. especially since it is ment to go against undeads.

Then that should be done to every single ultimate in the game.

And fighter's guild is no longer an anti-undead skill line.

That makes absolutley no sense whatsoever.. but some other ultimates could be scaling in the same way yes. But on the other hand we could just make meteor and all its morph cost 100 ultimates..