Official Feedback Thread for the Rebalance of ICP, WGT, and Veteran CoA

ZOS_GinaBruno · April 2016

This is the official feedback thread for the Rebalance of ICP, WGT, and Veteran CoA. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

Which dungeon(s) did you play through? Was it Normal or Veteran mode?
How did the dungeon feel compared to how it is currently on the Live megaservers?
Do you have any other general feedback?

GCVDJ11T · April 2016

VWGT HM

Encounters

Trash up to the Glutten - Solo'd by Magicka NB

Glutten - Two man'd with Magicka NB and Magicka DK DPS

1st boss Harvester - Three man'd with Magicka Sorc DPS, Magicka DK DPS, Magicka NB DPS (funnel heals and rapid regen). You can now stand in the winter without blocking letting it hit you both ways.
No tank needed

Crem Guard's - Three man'd no one taunted we all let him hit us with his fire breath to check on the dot tick. Funnel heals were sufficient. I think I used rapid regen maybe once
No tank needed

2nd boss Trio - Three man'd with Magicka Sorc DPS, Magicka DK DPS, Magicka NB DPS (funnel heals and rapid regen). I had to use healing ward when chained into double standard. We had a few deaths that we rezz'd thru
No tank needed

Normal Trash mobs up to Inhibitor - we let our DK solo with a few heals

Titan - we had four in our group but could have easily two man'd. His initial hit which was once a one shot a few funnels healed me back to full

3rd boss Inhibitor - We did not straight burn leaving the pinion open. We wanted to see if anything changed with the mechanics. Our first blue phase was when she was at execute and in double portal phase. The track star speed buff she got in the blue phase is a change. We actually wiped twice...lol! Kite her on the outskirt of the room at full sprint speed. I actually started using refreshing path and it felt as if she received the buff as well. Honestly it was kinda comical having to run at full speed from her and her speeding up with me on the path. We had one dps on the double portals. One dps executing her and another waiting on the pinion with running shoes on. Prior if we did the pinion mechanic on training runs, we were able to dps her walking backwards in blue phase then one roll dodge before the pinion opened. This is the fight that the pugs struggle with the most and with the new speed of the inhibitor I honestly believe that you will have less clears for them. Suggestion straight burn leave pinion open and heal thru it. We spent more time running from her than it would have taken us to DPS her the entire fight.

HM Kena - was the shortest fight ever on her. Funnel heals with a few rapid regen's. Execute phase, the dps just stood in the walls.

Feedback:

I'm actually really sad this fight was nerfed again. However, with the traits that dropped on the set pieces the nerf is almost necessary so groups that still need gear can take 10 minutes stack and burn to farm over and over for the good traits. Every boss encounter dropped set gear. Well fitted was 50% of all of our drops. The other two traits that dropped on all of our set pieces were Training and Sturdy.

lathbury · April 2016

so nerfed into the ground then?

Strider_Roshin · April 2016

Yeah this change was terrible. There's nothing satisfying easy content. Enjoyment comes from conquering difficult obstacles. This is very disappointing indeed.

Destyran · April 2016

Wow... Dissapointing even for nerfs. Was it more or less wayrest apart from new inhibitor mechanic?

ButtersEP · April 2016

@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Can we please get a 3rd tier off difficulty or something? Keep the 3rd tier off the dailies I don't care.. But every dungeon minus these 3 are not even worth doing unless you are trying to get a specific drop.

Shadesofkin · April 2016

I'm prepping to do it soon, but guildmates are already reporting it's a cake walk in either dungeon

Farorin · April 2016

If y'all didn't want it to be nerfed, you should have been more inclusive and open to newer players by teaching them the mechanics, rather than just dropping from group or booting them when group wipes once or twice.

I say it is a fault of the elitists in the game why things like this get nerfed.

Shunravi · April 2016

You can't force people to join guilds

You can't force people to search out the guides and videos detailing how the dungeon works.

You can't force people to use teamwork

And for players like me there are only so many pug groups I can do with my time, and it's more likely that you might find experienced players in a pug for these.

So sometimes it seems that people don't want to be helped through. No matter how inclusive or exclusive you may be.

lolo_01b16_ESO · April 2016

I was helping a lot of people to complete wgt and icp, sometimes spend 1-2 hours on one boss for practicing till we killed it. I never left groups (unless I had RL appointments) since I felt it would be rude to do so. But since people like you seem to not allow me to have one single dungeon that poses some kind of challenge, I probably should become that kind of elitest you are thinking of and try my best to get everyone quitting the game who has less cp than me.

iRogue32 · April 2016

In my opinion, the nerfs to these dungeons are completely unnecessary. These where the only 4-man content left that had any bit of challenge to them.

I guess this is the only way to add a challenge back to these dungeons:

https://youtu.be/F5TWUEMvb50

Strider_Roshin · April 2016

No one taught me. How about taking some self accountability instead of blaming people more successful than you at the game.

deathbyk1te · April 2016

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuOGAWx2e0g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oDMYTLLMIk

The fact it can be 3-manned now is disappointing.

SublimeSparo · April 2016

Now...? can 2 man upto inhibitor and 3 man from there to the end on live.
Sounds like it's probably soloable now lol

hydrocynus · April 2016

Hahahaha. You sir deserve a lol.

Septimus_Magna · April 2016

So its the task of skilled players to drag inexperienced players through harder end-game content?
And if they dont do that, the content they enjoy gets nerfed?

Wow.

If you dont like a challenge go do one of the easy dungeons, there are plenty to choose from!

NolaArch · April 2016

With CP's visible after DB launches, elitism isn't going anywhere. There absolutely will be groups that vote to kick a low CP player becasue there lacking in CP bound gear, and passives.

That being said, two people I play with regularly, (deathbyk1te, see above, being one of them) routinely take new players through both vWGT and vICP. I have offered to help take players through. Some really want to learn. Others are unwilling to take the time to consider the mechanics and their own skill rotation, gear setup, etc. There is simply nothing you can do to help a player whose response to content they find difficult is, "This is stupid. I'll just wait for the Golden vendor to have the helm, or for them to nerf it." I have heard people say this, and you can't fix an attitude like that. Unfortunately.

But there are players out there more than willing to be patient and help a fellow player get their achievements and clear content. I'm one of them. But even I have limits.

NolaArch · April 2016

My opinion on the nerf:

If someone is willing to be patient, and take the time to learn the content and mechanics, none of these dungeons are walls. They're enjoyable as is, and in no way impossible. I'm really disappointed in the nerfing, and will be sad to see the last of the relatively challenging 4-man content thwacked with the nerf bat.

Could these dungeons just not be pulled out of the pledge rotation? Or at the least, offer one gold key for non-hard mode, and two for hard mode? Though, let's be honest, hard mode vCoA *is* the easier way, yeah? I really don't know what the answer is, but I know it isn't nerfing the dungeons.

My last thought is, if dungeons are getting nerfed to this degree, couldn't they be met with new, challenging 4-man content for those of us who would like to continue the challenge? With three friends, not eleven!

vladimilianoub17_ESO1 · April 2016

OMG ZOS.Are you guys ok?

You know ,I think ZOS is to cocky with the fact that they have a solid core gameplay and because of that they think they can make bad decisions whenever they like and it wont affect the game player base.

LegendaryArcher · April 2016

2-manned vWGT and vICP. 2 Magicka Nightblades. Most parts can be solo'd, though there are mechanics that require a second person to be there, like 2nd boss vICP (throwdown mechanic) or 3rd boss vWGT (dot too high, blue phase means death).

eserras7b16_ESO · April 2016

I truly dislike the nerf. I bet it is because people in grouping tools weren't able to complete it, but it's okay if some 4mans remain unpugable, there should be unpugable content. Don't put them on the random dungeon and mark them as specialy difficult to keep casual players from them, but don't nerf them.

acw37162 · April 2016

He was was quite honest when he said, they have internal data that does not meet there target goals for attempts and completes.

I would be fine with a hard mode/nub mare mode, whatever.

But it is honest to god tiresome listening to those who can rage all over those who can't for ruining their thing. As if WGT and ICP were only meant for "X" percentage of the player base.

And, as if you didn't have "your" toys for coming up on six months.

Give me a break, you don't like the changes, post your feedback, move on to Maw or up scaled Sanctum or don't go play another game for awhile till new dungeons are released but lay off, ZOS panders to the elite here more then they should
IMO.

MidnightBlue · April 2016

I'm not disagreeing with you because I met a lot of people in this game that are like that. They don't want to waste their time in a dungeon for an hour and rather complete it in under 20 min unfortunately which can be annoying to inexperienced players. However, there are people that tried to teach a lot of new players that refused to learn the mechanics or switch their build for better optimization in completing content in this game. They often get an attitude about it and tell people that they know what they're doing when clearly they don't.

Licht · April 2016

One weeks ago we have already beat the entire Dungeon in Veteran Hard Mode in 2 on PS4... I don't think this nerf is necessary please don't do this. At least give us the chance to choose how we wanna run this Dungeon with a third difficult.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvAITchRnA8

kevlarto_ESO · April 2016

Would be nice a 3rd tier for those that want that extra challenge.

Magdalina · April 2016

It can already be 2 manned on live. Apparently it can be soloed now on PTS. Wonderful.

Magdalina · April 2016

We SHOULD? I wasn't aware we're signing up for a job when we start playing this game. I have just as much of a responsibility to carry a newer player through a dungeon as he has a responsibility to learn(which btw he's capable of doing prior to entering a dungeon, dozens of guides online; most of "elitists" actually learnt those dungeons and mechanics with no guides and no one to help them) and try to improve. I never bail on weaker groups and I pug WGT and ICP for fun and to meet new people, but to meet people who wipe the group and outright ignore any advice given, then be told YOU are the elitist jerk and they're just "playing how they want" is outright frustrating.

Btw you can bet I for one will stop trying to teach when/if this hits live. If you still die to the few mechanics left then, well, just go cry for more nerfs, I'm sure they'll nerf it to Doshia level eventually.

Stillian · April 2016

3rd dificulty would be nice because current veteran is very close to cakewalk. Scale it up to a level where at least healer and tank are needed. Incoming damage needed to be actually healed by healer, let incoming damage from elite things be unbearable for dps so tanks who taunt will be required, cant even dream about dps checks...Also it needs to punish for mistakes like it originally used to be short after release e.g. steel tornado 1shots if you forgot to block. Where is all that?

Whats the point in "normal" versions of those dungeons if "veteran" is a cakewalk? Maybe make this nerfed one normal, give a gold key for that, and make "3rd" dificulty veteran? i doubt that some of us "elitist" care if it is in pledge rotation...

Why would you ZOS want all content be completable by beginner? Current wgt is completable by players who has some idea of how group works and can use at least 1\3 of character possibilities. It's a mid-game content, and doesnt require any super skill or end-game gear. We dont have ANY FOUR MAN END GAME CONTENT, and now we dont have even mid-game one?! why would i log game if there is nothing to play for me?

Why trouble of "casuals" who are stick on beginner level and have no interest in improving and PLAYING (not logging and getting gold key for nothing) the game becomes my trouble?

kylewwefan · April 2016

However you look at it, something has got to be done with those two dungeons. I spent an hour and half in WGT last nite and couldn't get it done. I play couple hours a day, read forums, work on rotation, gold gear.....more than casual but not elite play. This not the first time I failed WGT. It's been many many times. It's not fun. In fact it's quite discouraging from wanting to run that dungeon.

Wild_squirtle · April 2016

Bad changes made it so all the cupcakes canddo it and all the players looking for a challenge dissapointed. Time to go play another game till content gets difficult again. Or will have to run these naked for a challenge.

Sad day for eso.

Shadesofkin · April 2016

Well, the difficulty is significantly lower.

Please remove the double gold key reward, no one is going to not be able to do that.