cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

imapogostick wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

Barlthump wrote: »

What's the issue here? There was literally no nerf to shields. Infact it got a buff with annulment. Don't honestly tell the duration to 6 secs got you all twisted and depressed?like honestly how long does your 20 secs hardned ward last you when someone is whacking you? You still have to reapply all the same. This just prevents sorcs from walking around out of combat with a shield. I for one think it's fair, during a fight, you will still have the shields up and when running around in the world if you want the shield protection you need to reapply it every 6 secs. All is fair if you ask me. Or would you rather have the major minor thing applied to shields like many suggested?

Read some of our posts and you'll understand why. they buffed the sorc type that everyone hates, and nerfed every other sorc niche build there is...literally trying to force us into shield stacking streak abusing attack stackers. Proxy makes running a pet build impossible because we're literally going to take MORE damage solo against a proxy det build then an entire ZERG does now on live.

I was running a build that drowns players in pets and keeps them on the run. My keeping my shield up on my pets and myself was how I kept things running. there is no room for shield stacking on my bar. There is no resources for recasting a shield literally every 6 seconds. it Destroys the build. Many CCs like fear outlast the duration of a shield. My tank build is also destroyed because one stun and im done. It's not like my pet build had supporting gear either since they've refused to support it since AA was a thing back in the vr12 days. The ATTACK on the class is unwarranted.... Once again Zos was told to deal with 1 issue (sypher type sorcs) and instread fabricated another issue in their heads and Killed other types of game play (shield tank sorcs/Pet sorcs/CC sustain sorcs)

The deal with shields is almost a complete non issue for your cookie cutter 1 resto staff 1 destro staff type builds that triple shield stack. it may even be considered a buff to those type of builds that everyone has been complaining about. But the other types of sorcs everyone else was applauding for going off the beaten path and where using 1 shield, and sustaining are being annihilated in this patch.

Oh and there is also the small issue of everyone else getting our style of shields and STILL maintaining their own classes mitigation techniques.

We where the bottom of the DPS sustain barral in PVE, Now it's either go cookie cutter or lay down and die in pvp.

I'm literally out here as gank bait. I can't simple run around spamming my shield. Any cloaked NB can wack me from stealth and im dead. 1 fear and im dead. 2 Dizzys and im dead. 2 focused shots and im dead. Literally it's going to be a slaughter.

Guess your gonna have to throw some heavy armor on now then huh. Can't just sit on 7 light and tank. Finally!

lol, you're so ignorant that it's funny. I'm amazed how you survived until now with you being that ignorant about anything apparently. Sorcerers as a class will only have one viable way to be competitive now and let me tell you, you're going to hate it when every single sorc goes around cyro and stack shields as that's the only way to survive for them now.

What's different? That's all I see now

Xeven wrote: »

Let me spell this change out for anyone who is too stupid to understand it. Get your notebook out, you ready? Here is the new sorc killing meta:



Sorcs do not have cloak, Sorcs do not have BoL, Sorcs do not have wings, vigor, rally, shuffle, block or dodge roll, but now EVERYONE has conjured ward to back those abilities up.

Sorc should have the longest lasting shield. I would be happy with 10 seconds.

So if Sorc casts ward. Play defensively for 19 seconds. CC > Burst > Dead sorc. What is the difference? I guess my point is the shield is not going to last that long while in combat anyway.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

imapogostick wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

imapogostick wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

Barlthump wrote: »

What's the issue here? There was literally no nerf to shields. Infact it got a buff with annulment. Don't honestly tell the duration to 6 secs got you all twisted and depressed?like honestly how long does your 20 secs hardned ward last you when someone is whacking you? You still have to reapply all the same. This just prevents sorcs from walking around out of combat with a shield. I for one think it's fair, during a fight, you will still have the shields up and when running around in the world if you want the shield protection you need to reapply it every 6 secs. All is fair if you ask me. Or would you rather have the major minor thing applied to shields like many suggested?

Read some of our posts and you'll understand why. they buffed the sorc type that everyone hates, and nerfed every other sorc niche build there is...literally trying to force us into shield stacking streak abusing attack stackers. Proxy makes running a pet build impossible because we're literally going to take MORE damage solo against a proxy det build then an entire ZERG does now on live.

I was running a build that drowns players in pets and keeps them on the run. My keeping my shield up on my pets and myself was how I kept things running. there is no room for shield stacking on my bar. There is no resources for recasting a shield literally every 6 seconds. it Destroys the build. Many CCs like fear outlast the duration of a shield. My tank build is also destroyed because one stun and im done. It's not like my pet build had supporting gear either since they've refused to support it since AA was a thing back in the vr12 days. The ATTACK on the class is unwarranted.... Once again Zos was told to deal with 1 issue (sypher type sorcs) and instread fabricated another issue in their heads and Killed other types of game play (shield tank sorcs/Pet sorcs/CC sustain sorcs)

The deal with shields is almost a complete non issue for your cookie cutter 1 resto staff 1 destro staff type builds that triple shield stack. it may even be considered a buff to those type of builds that everyone has been complaining about. But the other types of sorcs everyone else was applauding for going off the beaten path and where using 1 shield, and sustaining are being annihilated in this patch.

Oh and there is also the small issue of everyone else getting our style of shields and STILL maintaining their own classes mitigation techniques.

We where the bottom of the DPS sustain barral in PVE, Now it's either go cookie cutter or lay down and die in pvp.

I'm literally out here as gank bait. I can't simple run around spamming my shield. Any cloaked NB can wack me from stealth and im dead. 1 fear and im dead. 2 Dizzys and im dead. 2 focused shots and im dead. Literally it's going to be a slaughter.

Guess your gonna have to throw some heavy armor on now then huh. Can't just sit on 7 light and tank. Finally!

lol, you're so ignorant that it's funny. I'm amazed how you survived until now with you being that ignorant about anything apparently. Sorcerers as a class will only have one viable way to be competitive now and let me tell you, you're going to hate it when every single sorc goes around cyro and stack shields as that's the only way to survive for them now.

What's different? That's all I see now

There's actually other builds out there, I for one never used multiple shields to defend myself, now I'll just have to join the shield stackers as that's the only way for me to survive. And I'm far from the only one not stacking shields, but they'll all be forced to do that now as they have no other choice. The best way had been to make a major/minor system to get rid of the shield stacking you hate so much, a system that makes shields overwrite each other instead of stacking. Wouldn't you agree that would be a better alternative?

Better yes, I'm not opposed to it. but even better would be allowing only one shield active at a time. Making it a waste of resources if you use multiple. But with making it 6 seconds and not 20, sorcerers will need to recast and use more resources so it will be easier to kill rather than them tank better than I can as a dk in full heavy s+b...

Edit: although now you'd need to give everyone the ability to use both major and minor ward's.don't really see the difference in stacking now as to stacking major minor shield.

Xeven wrote: »

Chillic wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Let me spell this change out for anyone who is too stupid to understand it. Get your notebook out, you ready? Here is the new sorc killing meta:



Sorcs do not have cloak, Sorcs do not have BoL, Sorcs do not have wings, vigor, rally, shuffle, block or dodge roll, but now EVERYONE has conjured ward to back those abilities up.

Sorc should have the longest lasting shield. I would be happy with 10 seconds.

So if Sorc casts ward. Play defensively for 19 seconds. CC > Burst > Dead sorc. What is the difference? I guess my point is the shield is not going to last that long while in combat anyway.

Are you daft? If you're playing defensively, I don't have to refresh wards every 5 seconds in TG. In DB I HAVE to refresh it every five seconds, because if I try to refresh it on the 6th second, and you're any *** good, I wont be able to on the sixth second because I'll be in CC.

If you try to refresh on 5 but get CC instead, your old ward will protect you long enough to get up. If you try to refresh on 6 but get CC instead, you're dead.

Effectively what we have is a 1 second ward, 4 seconds of DPS rotation. That is the pigeonhole we've been shoved into.

Well, I have to refresh flappy flap every four seconds or four hits, might be 1 second then, while fighting melee targets, my 3k shield is *** and I can't just fly away to reset the fight.

Additionally, I don't care how defensive you are in cyrodiil, that shield isn't getting to 10 seconds. This is more about resource management which might make the resource stacking full DPS builds that want to stand and fight, take a different approach. I don't play my sorc much since everyone and their damn mother rolled one, but I would be just fine with this change.

Maybe sacrifice some magicka for some stamina and points for break-free cost? Because that is when you will die. See, not daft.

Btw this isn't just sorcerer shields. Igneous shield got dropped to 6 seconds as well. And before you say well dk has more survivability...No *** that's what dk does but has no offense... NONE. And sorcerer has a plethora of offense and the best shields in game. Plus sorcerer is ranged compared to dk max like 8 meter skills. Sorcerers should die and be squishy.You should get shields but shouldn't be able to stack them or last 20 seconds. Make you use your resource pool more, thank God it's 6 seconds

Xeven wrote: »

Chillic wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Chillic wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Let me spell this change out for anyone who is too stupid to understand it. Get your notebook out, you ready? Here is the new sorc killing meta:



Sorcs do not have cloak, Sorcs do not have BoL, Sorcs do not have wings, vigor, rally, shuffle, block or dodge roll, but now EVERYONE has conjured ward to back those abilities up.

Sorc should have the longest lasting shield. I would be happy with 10 seconds.

So if Sorc casts ward. Play defensively for 19 seconds. CC > Burst > Dead sorc. What is the difference? I guess my point is the shield is not going to last that long while in combat anyway.

Are you daft? If you're playing defensively, I don't have to refresh wards every 5 seconds in TG. In DB I HAVE to refresh it every five seconds, because if I try to refresh it on the 6th second, and you're any *** good, I wont be able to on the sixth second because I'll be in CC.

If you try to refresh on 5 but get CC instead, your old ward will protect you long enough to get up. If you try to refresh on 6 but get CC instead, you're dead.

Effectively what we have is a 1 second ward, 4 seconds of DPS rotation. That is the pigeonhole we've been shoved into.

Well, I have to refresh flappy flap every four seconds or four hits, might be 1 second then, while fighting melee targets, my 3k shield is *** and I can't just fly away to reset the fight.

Xeven wrote:

Sorcs do not have cloak, Sorcs do not have BoL, Sorcs do not have wings, vigor, rally, shuffle, block or dodge roll, but now EVERYONE has conjured ward to back those abilities up.

What were you saying about your 10k shield? If you let a sorc reset on you after he's been in gap closing range, that's your own fault.

Well, I never used it so I didn't say anything about it. and more than half the *** you put in that list is accessible by sorcs, maybe not your play style but that's on you. So if I have a 10k shield, you have 2... Still not seeing your point.

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

@cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

Here is my link from before TG where I posted that I thought Radiant Magelight would be overpowered, and as a NB, wanted ZOS to re-evaluate it. LINK

You had some great responses in this post like:

"Well, I will just say what so many NB's have said about cloak before this patch, L2P and change up your skills! :P"

"Well, it's ok, gankers can't really kill me, and gankers tears are all over the forums atm. So nice to see them cry for a change, I'll just tell them L2P like they love to do themselves. "

"So many tears in this post, I'll just do you a favour and tell you what to do like the NB's love to do on live, L2P.
Magelight is fine the way it is atm in the pts, just learn to play and adjust. "

"Well, NB's love to use it themselves and just told everyone to L2P when they used their OP I can escape whenever I want button so now it's just the reverse position, so I see it as fair, using one OP skill to counter another OP skill. Now it's their time to L2P "

Now it appears that you are not to fond of the changes heading your way. I am sure you will find a way to adjust. Forgive me if I have little sympathy.

NB's have always whined about any classes getting buffed to their level though, and the ganking is just getting more and more out of hand, so NB's should be the ones getting nerfed to hell as they're the ones that're the primary villain there, and they're even more hated than sorcs. And with them being the zenimax favoured class, they managed to get no real nerfs to them during the last patch anyway with all their crying, bitching and whining.

I don't necessarily think this changes is needed. I rarely die to Sorcs in 1v1's. I really could care less if this change were to happen.

I just find it amusing that you are the 1st person to rub it in other people's faces and drop "L2P" over and over (and over) again when their build is on the nerf-block. Now that your arguably OP ability is getting scaled back you want all sorts of sympathy. I am sure you will learn to pound Hardened Ward, Harness Magicka, and Healing Ward even faster than before and overcome these changes.

I've never ran shield stacking myself, but with this patch it's pretty much the choice between doing that or putting the sorc on the shelf until they fix the class.

NBrookus wrote: »

Kwivur wrote: »

I'm well aware that they are different, but they complement each other too well. Shuffle need a reduced time. Deal with it. Preferably around 6 seconds.

No, no and NO.

Do you know how many PvE tanks rely on Shuffle? Even magicka tanks, for whom it's a big chunk of their precious stam pool?

The answer is not to destroy more builds and roles because this change smells rotten.

Well, this is what happens when everyone calls for nerfs, people whined for nerfs on shields, now they got that and sorcs are useless. Now it's the sorcs turn to call for nerfs for everyone else instead, that's just how it is.

Sorcs are fine. Just change how you play it....

For eg my stam DK runs 5 impen and has a mag pool of 15 k. I dont dunk everything into stamina and pray for shuffle to keep me alive. I use igneous (3k+ mag), I use wings (3k+mag), I use fossilzie (also mag) even on a stam build. I sit at 1.1k mag recovery even though Im a stam build.. Literally all my utility comes from mag. Basically anything I do costs me my stam regen. Block = 0 stam regen. Stealth = 0 stam regen. Dodge roll = increasing cost. What's next? Take a fart = 0 stam regen???Its faaaaar more efficient to combine these with mag utility for good defense. Why do you feel entitled as magSorc to only rely on shields? If people on stam builds can use mag for their defense/utility why can't you incorporate some stam into your build for added utility/defence??

Pre DB PTS --> My sorc, 41k mag, everything into SP , 5/7 divines = WEEEEEEEE 20k shields with hardened + harness.. *** TON DPS + Insane tankiness. Basically rewarded for bum balling everything into mag.

With Pts --> my sorc --> 35k mag, 15k stam and I run shuffle on overload bar + harness on main bar with 5 impen. A little less DPS and JUST (IF NOT MORE EFFECTIVE)..... Put some points into tumbling as well. At least 10. This way I have enough to keep shuffle up 24/7 and still break free from any CC + I run immovable mag pots. IT WORKS. The sky is NOT falling. I repeat.. THE SKY IS NOT FALLING.

Stop whining and whining and whining. JEEEZ. Change up your mindset. Sorcs ARE FINE. Stop dunking 7 magicka enchants with all light armor with everything into spell power and mag. You are a glass cannon this way. OFCOURSE everyone is going to eat you alive. OFCOURSE the second your 6 second ward runs out you are going to be dead. IT SHOULD be this way. Literally EVERY stam build runs some amount of extra mag and mag recovery (especially stam DKs)......

Its time for magSorcs to stop whining and pay the same trade offs other builds do. Sacrifice some damage to spend some time improving your non-DPS bar. Sorcs CAN dodge roll, Sorcs CAN block, Sorcs CAN break free, Sorcs CAN RUN SHUFFLE. Just because you dunk 41k magicka and CHOOSE to run 9k stamina with 7/7 divines DOES NOT MEAN SORCS HAVE NO DEFENSE. Its just that you are CHOOSING to ignore options available to you. I mean look at 90% of mag DKs and Magplars. Especially mag DKS. These poor suckers are relegated to running SnB and relying on block (which has been nerfed into oblivion) just to stay alive. These builds are forced to run at least 15k stam just to even have a chance. Most even go so far as to run 5/5 heavy just to stay alive. We have it good compared to them...

At least in pvp 6 seconds is enough imo, shield will be down by then anyway.

Laggus wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

The hate for Sorcs is real...

Yes!!! It is including me!!!

Well, I know scrubs had a hard time taking down a single shield, but should the game really be balanced around scrubs?

Nothing says scrub like a magicka sorc that barricades themself with mines, covers their health bar with a damage shield, and then whines when someone is hitting them with 2k damage from shield breaker while everyone else is get hit for 4-8k because they don't have a shield up.

Don't suppose you saw all the NB's drowning tamriel in their tears because they were getting a well deserved balance patch last major patch? We just got to cry as much now so we get our shields back.

Who took your shields..have you even played PTS? Sorcs still wrecking people and still spamming them shields, its made very little difference. The goodish ones have already adapted and overcome maybe you can too someday instead of calling people scrubs that can't take down 20k shields and then your HP before you spam shields again.

Every single person will run around with around 20k shields now though, and all their other class abilities. Yes, it will be fun when sorcs are the only ones with shields as a defence while everyone else got a ton of shields plus wings, cloak or BoL etc, right?

Vangy wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Laggus wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

The hate for Sorcs is real...

Yes!!! It is including me!!!

Well, I know scrubs had a hard time taking down a single shield, but should the game really be balanced around scrubs?

Nothing says scrub like a magicka sorc that barricades themself with mines, covers their health bar with a damage shield, and then whines when someone is hitting them with 2k damage from shield breaker while everyone else is get hit for 4-8k because they don't have a shield up.

Don't suppose you saw all the NB's drowning tamriel in their tears because they were getting a well deserved balance patch last major patch? We just got to cry as much now so we get our shields back.

Who took your shields..have you even played PTS? Sorcs still wrecking people and still spamming them shields, its made very little difference. The goodish ones have already adapted and overcome maybe you can too someday instead of calling people scrubs that can't take down 20k shields and then your HP before you spam shields again.

Every single person will run around with around 20k shields now though, and all their other class abilities. Yes, it will be fun when sorcs are the only ones with shields as a defence while everyone else got a ton of shields plus wings, cloak or BoL etc, right?

Even with shields, magSorc is arguably still the best out of the magicka classes.

magDK --> with nerf to proxy det and increase cost of break free and block/dodge.. These guys are dead in the water. No burst and little tickly dots with wet noodle whip to hopefully take down others....

magTemp --> underpowered since dawn of ESO.

magNb --> 90% of these guys are one-trick pony VD gank builds...

Mag temps underpowered??? LOL. I got friends with mag temps pulling 50-60k dps sustained. That's not underpowered in any way.

If the change to shield durations really is about enforcing resource management (as some suggest), why couldn't the devs increase the duration up to 12 sec but make it cost magicka/stamina every second it's active?

That way the player would have to weigh the desire for defense against not as much offense.

L2P. The change to shields will separate the good sorcs from the bad. If you really think that reducing the time on shield is going to give you an automatic win over a good sorc who knows their class, you're in for a big surprise.
Honestly Rylana has tried to explain this over and over but it's like talking to a brick wall most of the time.

Caza99 wrote: »

L2P. The change to shields will separate the good sorcs from the bad. If you really think that reducing the time on shield is going to give you an automatic win over a good sorc who knows their class, you're in for a big surprise.
Honestly Rylana has tried to explain this over and over but it's like talking to a brick wall most of the time.

and as we have tried to explain, there are two styles in this game, pve and pvp, you pvp'ers are not the only ones who play this game, yet every balance change decision is made completely without the consideration of hte pve'ers