Why is everyone so blind?

psychotic13 · April 2016

Ok so I think a lot of the DB updates are great, and will help take this game further but there are 4 changes that I think are ridiculous, and will completely change everything. This is obviously my own opinion feel free to express yours and discuss.

1. Dawnbreaker of smiting now being a stamina based move, I personally don't even use this as I run either a sorc or NB but a lot of my friends play as Templars or DKs and rely on this for a quick single target ultimate as a Magicka user.

DKs have DragonKnight standard (which is good for PvE but not really PvP) the armor move forgot what's it called and obviously dragon leap, which deals physical damage. And as for Templars they have the healing ultimate, crescent sweep which sucks ***, and nova which is also good for PvE not PvP. So for single target quick ultimates a lot of them used Dawnbreaker, now that's gone what are they supposed to use? Or is everyone going to run meteor which gets complained about constantly by everyone.

2. FG passive 'slayer' used to give bonuses to both Magicka and stamina fighting undead ect. Now only gives weapon damage per skill slotted. Do only stamina players get bonuses vs undead/werewolves now? I thought they were trying to balance this game? If they kept Dawnbreaker it wouldn't even be an issue but they've stripped everything from Magicka, I'd even suggest making this like the Mage guild passive but adds 2% max stamina and stamina Regen instead, just let us have a morph for the ultimate, or atleast make a morph of dragon leap Magicka which no one will want that happening.

3. Hardened ward - now I agree the duration needed to be lowered, even at 6 seconds it isn't really an issue in PvP because you cast it so often anyway, but it's going to effect PvE a lot, if you normally have this on your backbar which a lot of people do, that means swapping 3-4 times instead of 1 to activate it and this will kill dps. And before you all start about shields, your class has your buffs and benefits while the sorc has its, but there's nothing to even compensate sorcs for this nerf. I mean dks and nbs are going to dish out more damage now because of the poison and disease addition which is great, but you've just took the sorcs defence away, with there buffed damage i think it would've been an even playing field but you couldn't leave it at that.

4. Annulment - imo this is the game changer, making it into a hardened ward for every class is a bad idea, every Tom *** and Harry is going to be using this as there primary defence skill. Now with sorcs there shields will be huge, although lasting minimal amounts of time, so not really that great cause you'll be spamming them to keep them up, killing your dps, resulting in your death. But this is the only thing people are seeing at the moment, what if you're fighting a DK, they like to use reflect which is already strong vs sorcs, you have to keep waiting till you can get that gap where his wings aren't up to stand any chance, now you're going to have to get his shields down and then his health while his wings are down? This just isn't going to happen be honest. Also NBs you bring them out of stealth/invisible and oh they have a shield so now you have to get that down and kill them before they cloak away? Again not going to happen in that time frame. And lastly Templars, already hard to kill if they know what they're doing with all the heals they have access to, but now they have a big great shield aswell as the best heal.

Anyway this is my opinion, feel free to express yours, maybe I'm being bias as I have a sorc who I've been playing a lot more than my NB recently.

Latter · April 2016

Nobody is or should use hardened ward in general PvE use unless you're a tank or doing something like Llamias in Sanctum, personally i know of no good sorc dd who uses it in their setup, this shouldnt be an issue PvE wise.

MrTarkanian48 · April 2016

1) You can still use Dawnbreaker of Smiting for a quick hitting ultimate, but it just won't scale with your elemental expert CP. This is similar to stamina builds that use meteor without any CP buffs, or Flawless which has been magic damage up to this point. Either way, they have removed the 60% additional damage to Daedra/Undead from Dawnbreaker, so neither stamina nor Magicka will be hitting Daedra as hard as before the patch.

2) Stamina users will get 20% damage against Daedra on Dawnbreaker, Silver Bolts, and Trap Beast. No one will get 9% damage against Daedra/Undead anymore. The 3% weapon damage will be a wash now that flawless is only 5%, and still total 8% with Flawless slotted.

ADarklore · April 2016

psychotic13 wrote: »

4. Annulment - imo this is the game changer, making it into a hardened ward for every class is a bad idea, every Tom *** and Harry is going to be using this as there primary defence skill. Now with sorcs there shields will be huge, although lasting minimal amounts of time, so not really that great cause you'll be spamming them to keep them up, killing your dps, resulting in your death. But this is the only thing people are seeing at the moment, what if you're fighting a DK, they like to use reflect which is already strong vs sorcs, you have to keep waiting till you can get that gap where his wings aren't up to stand any chance, now you're going to have to get his shields down and then his health while his wings are down? This just isn't going to happen be honest. Also NBs you bring them out of stealth/invisible and oh they have a shield so now you have to get that down and kill them before they cloak away? Again not going to happen in that time frame. And lastly Templars, already hard to kill if they know what they're doing with all the heals they have access to, but now they have a big great shield aswell as the best heal.

Anyway this is my opinion, feel free to express yours, maybe I'm being bias as I have a sorc who I've been playing a lot more than my NB recently.

But doesn't the amount of damage absorbed by Annulment's shield scale on Magicka... so you won't see Stamina players using it. So to say 'making it a hardened ward for every class' doesn't quite apply if it scales on Magicka like Hardened Ward does.

psychotic13 · April 2016

Latter wrote: »

Nobody is or should use hardened ward in general PvE use unless you're a tank or doing something like Llamias in Sanctum, personally i know of no good sorc dd who uses it in their setup, this shouldnt be an issue PvE wise.

But his game needs to cater to everyone's skill level, not just the best players or am I wrong in thinking that?

psychotic13 · April 2016

ADarklore wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

4. Annulment - imo this is the game changer, making it into a hardened ward for every class is a bad idea, every Tom *** and Harry is going to be using this as there primary defence skill. Now with sorcs there shields will be huge, although lasting minimal amounts of time, so not really that great cause you'll be spamming them to keep them up, killing your dps, resulting in your death. But this is the only thing people are seeing at the moment, what if you're fighting a DK, they like to use reflect which is already strong vs sorcs, you have to keep waiting till you can get that gap where his wings aren't up to stand any chance, now you're going to have to get his shields down and then his health while his wings are down? This just isn't going to happen be honest. Also NBs you bring them out of stealth/invisible and oh they have a shield so now you have to get that down and kill them before they cloak away? Again not going to happen in that time frame. And lastly Templars, already hard to kill if they know what they're doing with all the heals they have access to, but now they have a big great shield aswell as the best heal.

Anyway this is my opinion, feel free to express yours, maybe I'm being bias as I have a sorc who I've been playing a lot more than my NB recently.

But doesn't the amount of damage absorbed by Annulment's shield scale on Magicka... so you won't see Stamina players using it. So to say 'making it a hardened ward for every class' doesn't quite apply if it scales on Magicka like Hardened Ward does.

Correct, but Magicka users then what I've said still applies? And it's actually not hard to stack decent Magicka even on a stamina build, I guarantee stamina players will be using it.

I guess we'll have to wait till release to be sure, but this is my prediction.

psychotic13 · April 2016

I honestly think the solution is to leave the shields as they were, just make them crit-able.

ButtersEP · April 2016

You can use meteor, which hits like a wet noodle is the person blocks..

imapogostick · April 2016

Isn't ferocious leap the only skill that has a ward that doesn't scale off magic?

dagonbeer · April 2016

ADarklore wrote: »

But doesn't the amount of damage absorbed by Annulment's shield scale on Magicka... so you won't see Stamina players using it. So to say 'making it a hardened ward for every class' doesn't quite apply if it scales on Magicka like Hardened Ward does.

Stam users would use Bone shield instead, their equivalent of Ward:

Bone Shield:

This ability and its morphs now absorb all damage instead of just physical damage.
This ability and its morphs will now scale their damage shield values based on your maximum stamina instead of your maximum health.
Increased the synergy activation radius from this ability and its morphs to 4 meters from 3 meters.

Valrien · April 2016

ADarklore wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

4. Annulment - imo this is the game changer, making it into a hardened ward for every class is a bad idea, every Tom *** and Harry is going to be using this as there primary defence skill. Now with sorcs there shields will be huge, although lasting minimal amounts of time, so not really that great cause you'll be spamming them to keep them up, killing your dps, resulting in your death. But this is the only thing people are seeing at the moment, what if you're fighting a DK, they like to use reflect which is already strong vs sorcs, you have to keep waiting till you can get that gap where his wings aren't up to stand any chance, now you're going to have to get his shields down and then his health while his wings are down? This just isn't going to happen be honest. Also NBs you bring them out of stealth/invisible and oh they have a shield so now you have to get that down and kill them before they cloak away? Again not going to happen in that time frame. And lastly Templars, already hard to kill if they know what they're doing with all the heals they have access to, but now they have a big great shield aswell as the best heal.

Anyway this is my opinion, feel free to express yours, maybe I'm being bias as I have a sorc who I've been playing a lot more than my NB recently.

But doesn't the amount of damage absorbed by Annulment's shield scale on Magicka... so you won't see Stamina players using it. So to say 'making it a hardened ward for every class' doesn't quite apply if it scales on Magicka like Hardened Ward does.

Stam players have bone shield now.

Ajax_22 · April 2016

psychotic13 wrote: »

Ok so I think a lot of the DB updates are great, and will help take this game further but there are 4 changes that I think are ridiculous, and will completely change everything. This is obviously my own opinion feel free to express yours and discuss.

1. Dawnbreaker of smiting now being a stamina based move, I personally don't even use this as I run either a sorc or NB but a lot of my friends play as Templars or DKs and rely on this for a quick single target ultimate as a Magicka user.

DKs have DragonKnight standard (which is good for PvE but not really PvP) the armor move forgot what's it called and obviously dragon leap, which deals physical damage. And as for Templars they have the healing ultimate, crescent sweep which sucks ***, and nova which is also good for PvE not PvP. So for single target quick ultimates a lot of them used Dawnbreaker, now that's gone what are they supposed to use? Or is everyone going to run meteor which gets complained about constantly by everyone.

2. FG passive 'slayer' used to give bonuses to both Magicka and stamina fighting undead ect. Now only gives weapon damage per skill slotted. Do only stamina players get bonuses vs undead/werewolves now? I thought they were trying to balance this game? If they kept Dawnbreaker it wouldn't even be an issue but they've stripped everything from Magicka, I'd even suggest making this like the Mage guild passive but adds 2% max stamina and stamina Regen instead, just let us have a morph for the ultimate, or atleast make a morph of dragon leap Magicka which no one will want that happening.

Fighters Guild has always been a stamina based skill line. The fact that it's taken this long for ZOS to update the ultimate to scale with mighty is pure incompetence. Meteor is our equivalent to Dawn Breaker, and with this patch it's the strongest it's ever been. I do agree Slayer and Magicka Controller should have been updated to mirror each other.

Ajax_22 · April 2016

Latter wrote: »

Nobody is or should use hardened ward in general PvE use unless you're a tank or doing something like Llamias in Sanctum, personally i know of no good sorc dd who uses it in their setup, this shouldnt be an issue PvE wise.

Maelstrom Arena.

Daveheart · April 2016

Latter wrote: »

Nobody is or should use hardened ward in general PvE use unless you're a tank or doing something like Llamias in Sanctum, personally i know of no good sorc dd who uses it in their setup, this shouldnt be an issue PvE wise.

While I only rarely run my sorc in trials, the only time I've slotted hardened ward has been while lamia tanking. So mark me up for a whole-hearted agree.

imapogostick wrote: »

Isn't ferocious leap the only skill that has a ward that doesn't scale off magic?

2 of the 3 primary class shields scale based upon health (DK and Templar). And now rather than just absorbing physical damage, Bone Shield and it's morphs scale based upon max stamina. It's not too hard to his a reasonably high bone shield value now.

driosketch · April 2016

I'm with you on the Dawnbreaker/Fighter's guild stuff. It feels like they are pushing FG completely stamina, which would be fine if it was actually fighter theme. But ESO's Fighter's guild is an anti-deadra/undead guild which just asks for a bit of magic to be mixed in, not unlike the old crusader class mixing blade and restoration skills. (Still disappointed Turn undead is a stamina heavy skill.) Seriously, what's a templar healer looking to also smite undead supposed to do?

Shadesofkin · April 2016

I'm sort of with you on Fighters Guild, I really think that having these skills only benefit people who slot them and drastically reducing their total effectiveness was a mistake.

strikeback1247 · April 2016

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

1) You can still use Dawnbreaker of Smiting for a quick hitting ultimate, but it just won't scale with your elemental expert CP. This is similar to stamina builds that use meteor without any CP buffs, or Flawless which has been magic damage up to this point. Either way, they have removed the 60% additional damage to Daedra/Undead from Dawnbreaker, so neither stamina nor Magicka will be hitting Daedra as hard as before the patch.

Exactly.

s7732425ub17_ESO · April 2016

There does not need to be a general purpose hardened ward. It causes a class imbalance. Hardened Ward is a Sorc class form of protection. All the other classes get similar forms of protection but through different means.

Derra · April 2016

Latter wrote: »

Nobody is or should use hardened ward in general PvE use unless you're a tank or doing something like Llamias in Sanctum, personally i know of no good sorc dd who uses it in their setup, this shouldnt be an issue PvE wise.

Maelstrom arena likes to have a word with you, karl.

Ghost-Shot · April 2016

ADarklore wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

4. Annulment - imo this is the game changer, making it into a hardened ward for every class is a bad idea, every Tom *** and Harry is going to be using this as there primary defence skill. Now with sorcs there shields will be huge, although lasting minimal amounts of time, so not really that great cause you'll be spamming them to keep them up, killing your dps, resulting in your death. But this is the only thing people are seeing at the moment, what if you're fighting a DK, they like to use reflect which is already strong vs sorcs, you have to keep waiting till you can get that gap where his wings aren't up to stand any chance, now you're going to have to get his shields down and then his health while his wings are down? This just isn't going to happen be honest. Also NBs you bring them out of stealth/invisible and oh they have a shield so now you have to get that down and kill them before they cloak away? Again not going to happen in that time frame. And lastly Templars, already hard to kill if they know what they're doing with all the heals they have access to, but now they have a big great shield aswell as the best heal.

Anyway this is my opinion, feel free to express yours, maybe I'm being bias as I have a sorc who I've been playing a lot more than my NB recently.

But doesn't the amount of damage absorbed by Annulment's shield scale on Magicka... so you won't see Stamina players using it. So to say 'making it a hardened ward for every class' doesn't quite apply if it scales on Magicka like Hardened Ward does.

Which is exactly why they said hardened ward for every class, its a shield that absorbs all damage and scales on magicka, available to everyone...

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO · April 2016

Well, now we just got to wait for cloak, BoL and wings to get available to everyone too and we can all play cloaking, shield stacking, reflecting, BoL spamming NB's/sorcs/dk's/temps. That way everyone will be happy, right??

Ghost-Shot · April 2016

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Well, now we just got to wait for cloak, BoL and wings to get available to everyone too and we can all play cloaking, shield stacking, reflecting, BoL spamming NB's/sorcs/dk's/temps. That way everyone will be happy, right??

You still have bolt escape so you can't really act like your class get nothing unique, the things we could do with bolt escape on a DK...

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO · April 2016

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Well, now we just got to wait for cloak, BoL and wings to get available to everyone too and we can all play cloaking, shield stacking, reflecting, BoL spamming NB's/sorcs/dk's/temps. That way everyone will be happy, right??

You still have bolt escape so you can't really act like your class get nothing unique, the things we could do with bolt escape on a DK...

Bolt escape is super bad tho, anyone with a gap closer and half decent regen can keep following the sorc long after he/she's run out of resources to escape with.

Ghost-Shot · April 2016

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Well, now we just got to wait for cloak, BoL and wings to get available to everyone too and we can all play cloaking, shield stacking, reflecting, BoL spamming NB's/sorcs/dk's/temps. That way everyone will be happy, right??

You still have bolt escape so you can't really act like your class get nothing unique, the things we could do with bolt escape on a DK...

Bolt escape is super bad tho, anyone with a gap closer and half decent regen can keep following the sorc long after he/she's run out of resources to escape with.

Bolt escape is not super bad, I smell some L2P here...

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO · April 2016

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Well, now we just got to wait for cloak, BoL and wings to get available to everyone too and we can all play cloaking, shield stacking, reflecting, BoL spamming NB's/sorcs/dk's/temps. That way everyone will be happy, right??

You still have bolt escape so you can't really act like your class get nothing unique, the things we could do with bolt escape on a DK...

Bolt escape is super bad tho, anyone with a gap closer and half decent regen can keep following the sorc long after he/she's run out of resources to escape with.

Bolt escape is not super bad, I smell some L2P here...

You mean it's not bad when it keeps getting 50% cost increase per usage within 4 seconds while a gap closer doesn't have to worry about that? Yes, super easy to run away with those conditions....
Besides, I rarely ever step into cyrodiil since all that happens in there anyway is just people whining about that shields are OP when they just need to L2P.

Ghost-Shot · April 2016

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Well, now we just got to wait for cloak, BoL and wings to get available to everyone too and we can all play cloaking, shield stacking, reflecting, BoL spamming NB's/sorcs/dk's/temps. That way everyone will be happy, right??

You still have bolt escape so you can't really act like your class get nothing unique, the things we could do with bolt escape on a DK...

Bolt escape is super bad tho, anyone with a gap closer and half decent regen can keep following the sorc long after he/she's run out of resources to escape with.

Bolt escape is not super bad, I smell some L2P here...

You mean it's not bad when it keeps getting 50% cost increase per usage within 4 seconds while a gap closer doesn't have to worry about that? Yes, super easy to run away with those conditions....
Besides, I rarely ever step into cyrodiil since all that happens in there anyway is just people whining about that shields are OP when they just need to L2P.

So stop using it to run away and use to position? I play a DK so I don't even understand the logic of running away in a fight...

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO · April 2016

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Well, now we just got to wait for cloak, BoL and wings to get available to everyone too and we can all play cloaking, shield stacking, reflecting, BoL spamming NB's/sorcs/dk's/temps. That way everyone will be happy, right??

You still have bolt escape so you can't really act like your class get nothing unique, the things we could do with bolt escape on a DK...

Bolt escape is super bad tho, anyone with a gap closer and half decent regen can keep following the sorc long after he/she's run out of resources to escape with.

Bolt escape is not super bad, I smell some L2P here...

You mean it's not bad when it keeps getting 50% cost increase per usage within 4 seconds while a gap closer doesn't have to worry about that? Yes, super easy to run away with those conditions....
Besides, I rarely ever step into cyrodiil since all that happens in there anyway is just people whining about that shields are OP when they just need to L2P.

So stop using it to run away and use to position? I play a DK so I don't even understand the logic of running away in a fight...

I don't want to PvP, which is why I use it to get away, and it was supposed to be working like that until people whined about it too much so it got super nerfed.

Joy_Division · April 2016

Latter wrote: »

Nobody is or should use hardened ward in general PvE use unless you're a tank or doing something like Llamias in Sanctum, personally i know of no good sorc dd who uses it in their setup, this shouldnt be an issue PvE wise.

Have you even tried vMA?

Ghost-Shot · April 2016

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Well, now we just got to wait for cloak, BoL and wings to get available to everyone too and we can all play cloaking, shield stacking, reflecting, BoL spamming NB's/sorcs/dk's/temps. That way everyone will be happy, right??

You still have bolt escape so you can't really act like your class get nothing unique, the things we could do with bolt escape on a DK...

Bolt escape is super bad tho, anyone with a gap closer and half decent regen can keep following the sorc long after he/she's run out of resources to escape with.

Bolt escape is not super bad, I smell some L2P here...

You mean it's not bad when it keeps getting 50% cost increase per usage within 4 seconds while a gap closer doesn't have to worry about that? Yes, super easy to run away with those conditions....
Besides, I rarely ever step into cyrodiil since all that happens in there anyway is just people whining about that shields are OP when they just need to L2P.

So stop using it to run away and use to position? I play a DK so I don't even understand the logic of running away in a fight...

I don't want to PvP, which is why I use it to get away, and it was supposed to be working like that until people whined about it too much so it got super nerfed.

Then whats the issue? Outside of PVP shields are dumb to have on your bar and bolt escape is just a get around town quick sort of thing, they are good in Malestrom but how often in Malestrom are you not recasting shields anyway?

willklippsteinb14_ESO · April 2016

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Well, now we just got to wait for cloak, BoL and wings to get available to everyone too and we can all play cloaking, shield stacking, reflecting, BoL spamming NB's/sorcs/dk's/temps. That way everyone will be happy, right??

You still have bolt escape so you can't really act like your class get nothing unique, the things we could do with bolt escape on a DK...

Bolt escape is super bad tho, anyone with a gap closer and half decent regen can keep following the sorc long after he/she's run out of resources to escape with.

Bolt escape is not super bad, I smell some L2P here...

You mean it's not bad when it keeps getting 50% cost increase per usage within 4 seconds while a gap closer doesn't have to worry about that? Yes, super easy to run away with those conditions....
Besides, I rarely ever step into cyrodiil since all that happens in there anyway is just people whining about that shields are OP when they just need to L2P.

So stop using it to run away and use to position? I play a DK so I don't even understand the logic of running away in a fight...

I don't want to PvP, which is why I use it to get away, and it was supposed to be working like that until people whined about it too much so it got super nerfed.

Then whats the issue? Outside of PVP shields are dumb to have on your bar and bolt escape is just a get around town quick sort of thing, they are good in Malestrom but how often in Malestrom are you not recasting shields anyway?

Wasn't always six seconds, I can tell you that ^^, this will burn thru resources very quickly, so not only are we penalized on streak to escape, but we are penalized on shields to survive, what would you have us do then? its shields or streak, and well both of those have been taken, I say give all gap closers a nice nerf, so that if you use it within 4 seconds of the last time you used one, itll cost 50% more, each time, stacking....these changed will be gladly accepted, and ill forget about my shield and streak nerfs

Minalan · April 2016

Joy_Division wrote: »

Latter wrote: »

Nobody is or should use hardened ward in general PvE use unless you're a tank or doing something like Llamias in Sanctum, personally i know of no good sorc dd who uses it in their setup, this shouldnt be an issue PvE wise.

Have you even tried vMA?

No. He probably hasn't.

I think the TTK in this game has always been too low, Harness Magicka isn't a bad change in that regard.