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Do you really think annulment changes mean buff to sorc's shield stacking?
Tyrion87
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Why do I need that massive dmg shields combination (harness+hardened ward) if it lasts so short that it might not be fully consumed during the battle? I see that players who don't play sorc are very glad for the reduction of the duration of shields. But I think it's only from PvP perspective (sorcs will be much easier to kill which is obvious). But such non-sorc players don't think that, when PvEing, sorcs (DD ones) will be doing much less damage cause all their magicka will be used for reapplying the shields (just to be able to survive) and the damage will be done exclusively by staves and only from time to time between casting shields (and even with less choice of offensive abilities cause shields will have to be put into main bar). Sorcs won't have any reliable defence and will be fragile as funk. As a result, it will affect all 4-man groups while doing the group dungeons because it will just reduce the damage done by the group overall, the duration of dungeon runs and their overall difficulty. Don't blame sorcs then that they won't be doing much damage... I don't PvP much so it doesn't bother me from that perspective. I mainly PvE and as such, taking into account how much time I have put into my only char which is magicka sorc, there will be really no pleasure for me to play anymore and most likely I'll quit.
I have no words for ZOS how many incompetent employees you hire who make decisions regarding balance changes. There wasn't, there isn't and apparently there will be no balance in this game at all. Each time you buff one class, the other becomes useless and ruined. I get an impression that people who had created this game are not the same people who are maintaining it now...
Edited by Tyrion87 on April 26, 2016 9:19AM I have no words for ZOS how many incompetent employees you hire who make decisions regarding balance changes. There wasn't, there isn't and apparently there will be no balance in this game at all. Each time you buff one class, the other becomes useless and ruined. I get an impression that people who had created this game are not the same people who are maintaining it now...
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Surak73✭✭✭✭✭Totally agree. And just think of the MA: all of your magicka pool will go in shields for the mere sake of surviving...5 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The light armor shields should not protect against all types of dmg, shields in pvp is already making the gameplay toxic, they shouldnt give more ppl these kinda shields. 6 second on conjured ward seems too short tho, should atleast be 10-12 secs.
PC EU
PvP only2 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You be re applying the shield more before it runs out naturally anyway, this change is to try and stop shield stacking.
Your welcome to stack hardened + harness but if they run out every 6 seconds you'll be doing that often.
Best just sticking hardened on 1 bar.
PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
Tyrion87✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »You be re applying the shield more before it runs out naturally anyway, this change is to try and stop shield stacking.
Your welcome to stack hardened + harness but if they run out every 6 seconds you'll be doing that often.
Best just sticking hardened on 1 bar.
But I think the change to annulment, which is available and will be tempting to all magicka based classes, will make the shield stacking even a bigger problem.
Looking at the euphoria among non-sorc players screaming 'finally they got nerfed, rip sorc' (which I think is only justified among non-sorc PvPers who always scream the most btw), I think the best solution would be to reduce the duration of dmg shields to e.g. 12-14 seconds in PvP areas, and leave the duration unchanged in PvE areas (which will be beneficial for all players, not only sorcs, cause all of them team up to play together as a group).5 -
Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Against anyone competent those shields are down in 6 seconds anyway.
Shield stacking got buffed.3 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Why do I need that massive dmg shields combination (harness+hardened ward) if it lasts so short that it might not be fully consumed during the battle? I see that players who don't play sorc are very glad for the reduction of the duration of shields. But I think it's only from PvP perspective (sorcs will be much easier to kill which is obvious). But such non-sorc players don't think that, when PvEing, sorcs (DD ones) will be doing much less damage cause all their magicka will be used for reapplying the shields (just to be able to survive) and the damage will be done exclusively by staves and only from time to time between casting shields (and even with less choice of offensive abilities cause shields will have to be put into main bar). Sorcs won't have any reliable defence and will be fragile as funk. As a result, it will affect all 4-man groups while doing the group dungeons because it will just reduce the damage done by the group overall, the duration of dungeon runs and their overall difficulty. Don't blame sorcs then that they won't be doing much damage... I don't PvP much so it doesn't bother me from that perspective. I mainly PvE and as such, taking into account how much time I have put into my only char which is magicka sorc, there will be really no pleasure for me to play anymore and most likely I'll quit.
I have no words for ZOS how many incompetent employees you hire who make decisions regarding balance changes. There wasn't, there isn't and apparently there will be no balance in this game at all. Each time you buff one class, the other becomes useless and ruined. I get an impression that people who had created this game are not the same people who are maintaining it now...Totally agree. And just think of the MA: all of your magicka pool will go in shields for the mere sake of surviving...
Stop your crying. That's exactly what we stamina builds used to suffer from by all of our defence mechanics like block and dodge draining our main pool.2 -
Tyrion87✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Against anyone competent those shields are down in 6 seconds anyway.
Shield stacking got buffed.
I disagree. This is not an argument justifying the reduction of the dmg shields duration. My shields last longer, even in boss fights in veteran group dungeons. Unless I cast it while being exposed to huge damage when e.g. the tank is down.3 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »You be re applying the shield more before it runs out naturally anyway, this change is to try and stop shield stacking.
Your welcome to stack hardened + harness but if they run out every 6 seconds you'll be doing that often.
Best just sticking hardened on 1 bar.
But I think the change to annulment, which is available and will be tempting to all magicka based classes, will make the shield stacking even a bigger problem.
Looking at the euphoria among non-sorc players screaming 'finally they got nerfed, rip sorc' (which I think is only justified among non-sorc PvPers who always scream the most btw), I think the best solution would be to reduce the duration of dmg shields to e.g. 12-14 seconds in PvP areas, and leave the duration unchanged in PvE areas (which will be beneficial for all players, not only sorcs, cause all of them team up to play together as a group).
I think your getting shield stacking mixed up here.
When sorc use hardened + harness that is shield stacking making it stupidly hard for other magicka builds to kill them because they had to get through 2x shields which equal around 25k-30k shields when added. It's a stupid number.
Now stamina builds never had a problem with sorc beacause they needed to only get through 1 shield, it was tricky since it can't be crit but still possible.
Magicka builds using 1 shield won't be too annoying. I hope it won't anyway. If they want to be able to get a 10k shield they'll have to spec a lot into bastion.
And if people really do start using shields a lot i'll take some points out of crit dmg and stick into shattering blows.
Oh also the non sorc pvper's should equate to 75% of the playerbase but because sorc are OP they equal around 50/60%.
6s means you won'y have time to shield stack if you ever plan on doing any dmg, meaning 1 shield it is to be able to actually kill people.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...2 -
Tyrion87✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Why do I need that massive dmg shields combination (harness+hardened ward) if it lasts so short that it might not be fully consumed during the battle? I see that players who don't play sorc are very glad for the reduction of the duration of shields. But I think it's only from PvP perspective (sorcs will be much easier to kill which is obvious). But such non-sorc players don't think that, when PvEing, sorcs (DD ones) will be doing much less damage cause all their magicka will be used for reapplying the shields (just to be able to survive) and the damage will be done exclusively by staves and only from time to time between casting shields (and even with less choice of offensive abilities cause shields will have to be put into main bar). Sorcs won't have any reliable defence and will be fragile as funk. As a result, it will affect all 4-man groups while doing the group dungeons because it will just reduce the damage done by the group overall, the duration of dungeon runs and their overall difficulty. Don't blame sorcs then that they won't be doing much damage... I don't PvP much so it doesn't bother me from that perspective. I mainly PvE and as such, taking into account how much time I have put into my only char which is magicka sorc, there will be really no pleasure for me to play anymore and most likely I'll quit.
I have no words for ZOS how many incompetent employees you hire who make decisions regarding balance changes. There wasn't, there isn't and apparently there will be no balance in this game at all. Each time you buff one class, the other becomes useless and ruined. I get an impression that people who had created this game are not the same people who are maintaining it now...Totally agree. And just think of the MA: all of your magicka pool will go in shields for the mere sake of surviving...
Stop your crying. That's exactly what we stamina builds used to suffer from by all of our defence mechanics like block and dodge draining our main pool.
So your reasoning is: since we were crying, now it's the high time for you to cry... Why does anybody have to cry?2 -
Tyrion87✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »You be re applying the shield more before it runs out naturally anyway, this change is to try and stop shield stacking.
Your welcome to stack hardened + harness but if they run out every 6 seconds you'll be doing that often.
Best just sticking hardened on 1 bar.
But I think the change to annulment, which is available and will be tempting to all magicka based classes, will make the shield stacking even a bigger problem.
Looking at the euphoria among non-sorc players screaming 'finally they got nerfed, rip sorc' (which I think is only justified among non-sorc PvPers who always scream the most btw), I think the best solution would be to reduce the duration of dmg shields to e.g. 12-14 seconds in PvP areas, and leave the duration unchanged in PvE areas (which will be beneficial for all players, not only sorcs, cause all of them team up to play together as a group).
I think your getting shield stacking mixed up here.
When sorc use hardened + harness that is shield stacking making it stupidly hard for other magicka builds to kill them because they had to get through 2x shields which equal around 25k-30k shields when added. It's a stupid number.
Now stamina builds never had a problem with sorc beacause they needed to only get through 1 shield, it was tricky since it can't be crit but still possible.
Magicka builds using 1 shield won't be too annoying. I hope it won't anyway. If they want to be able to get a 10k shield they'll have to spec a lot into bastion.
And if people really do start using shields a lot i'll take some points out of crit dmg and stick into shattering blows.
Oh also the non sorc pvper's should equate to 75% of the playerbase but because sorc are OP they equal around 50/60%.
6s means you won'y have time to shield stack if you ever plan on doing any dmg, meaning 1 shield it is to be able to actually kill people.
You see, you're still talking about PvP perspective. That's why I think the dmg shields should be different for PvP and PvE. I see no logic behind the reduction of shields duration in PvE.5 -
Asmael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭But such non-sorc players don't think that, when PvEing, sorcs (DD ones) will be doing much less damage cause all their magicka will be used for reapplying the shields (just to be able to survive)
Good sorc DDs don't use those, they use Boundless storm if they really want to deal damage while increasing their survivability.
If you want to tank with a mag sorc, you'll have to refresh those anyway.
If you're afraid about vMA, don't worry, those melt in a split second anyway.
How do you think other DDs have been doing so far, without 20k shields?PC EU - Zahraji of the Void, aka "Kitty", the fluffiest salmon genocider in town.
Poke @AsmaeI (last letter is uppercase "i") on PC EU or Asmael#9325 on Discord and receive a meow today.6 -
Tonnopesce✭✭✭✭✭
✭How about not going around with 12k healt and 45k magika but instead have a normal pool of 16-20k and avoid some damage?
Maybe sorcerers now will learn to avoid the Red circles instead of spamming shields.Edited by Tonnopesce on April 26, 2016 11:41AMSignature7 -
ku5h✭✭✭✭✭
✭If you'r using shields in vet dungeons or trials, then you'r doing something wrong. For solo PvE its different, but in group play you need to rely on your healer to keep you alive. If he cant do that then 1 of you need to L2P.3 -
Tyrion87✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If you'r using shields in vet dungeons or trials, then you'r doing something wrong. For solo PvE its different, but in group play you need to rely on your healer to keep you alive. If he cant do that then 1 of you need to L2P.
Of course I use dmg shields in vet group dungeons and I've never seen a DD sorc who would not have been using it, relying only on a healer. Any l2p issue is not a case here.5 -
DRXHarbinger✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Against anyone competent those shields are down in 6 seconds anyway.
Shield stacking got buffed.
Hardly, logically magika usage would be more than doubled, I think it'll promote more fight or flight rather against weaker players.
Yay to ganking sorcs though, no more running around peacefully with a shield up.PC Master Race
1001CP
8 Flawless Toons, all Classes.
Master Angler
Dro-M'artha Destroyer (at last)
Tamriel Hero
Grand Overlord
Every Skyshard
Down With BOP!0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If you'r using shields in vet dungeons or trials, then you'r doing something wrong. For solo PvE its different, but in group play you need to rely on your healer to keep you alive. If he cant do that then 1 of you need to L2P.
Of course I use dmg shields in vet group dungeons and I've never seen a DD sorc who would not have been using it, relying only on a healer. Any l2p issue is not a case here.
Nah the high end group using a shield is pretty much a wasted slot, as long as the dd's can dodge block, the tank can get aggro and the healer can heal/dps when needed you don't need shields in vet dungeons.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...1 -
Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭leepalmer95 wrote: »If you'r using shields in vet dungeons or trials, then you'r doing something wrong. For solo PvE its different, but in group play you need to rely on your healer to keep you alive. If he cant do that then 1 of you need to L2P.
Of course I use dmg shields in vet group dungeons and I've never seen a DD sorc who would not have been using it, relying only on a healer. Any l2p issue is not a case here.
Nah the high end group using a shield is pretty much a wasted slot, as long as the dd's can dodge block, the tank can get aggro and the healer can heal/dps when needed you don't need shields in vet dungeons.
casting a shield is less of a dps loss than rolldodging out of the redcircle...spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"3 -
Tyrion87✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »If you'r using shields in vet dungeons or trials, then you'r doing something wrong. For solo PvE its different, but in group play you need to rely on your healer to keep you alive. If he cant do that then 1 of you need to L2P.
Of course I use dmg shields in vet group dungeons and I've never seen a DD sorc who would not have been using it, relying only on a healer. Any l2p issue is not a case here.
Nah the high end group using a shield is pretty much a wasted slot, as long as the dd's can dodge block, the tank can get aggro and the healer can heal/dps when needed you don't need shields in vet dungeons.
As I've said, I've never seen any sorc who would not have been using it. Even among players who are considered as the part of the 'highest quality' playerbase. Apparently ESO is only for elite players...1 -
sirrmattus✭✭✭✭✭Why is a sorc applying shields in dungeons? I don't want him in my group.Ebonheart Pact - North American Server
- THE MORALES -0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »If you'r using shields in vet dungeons or trials, then you'r doing something wrong. For solo PvE its different, but in group play you need to rely on your healer to keep you alive. If he cant do that then 1 of you need to L2P.
Of course I use dmg shields in vet group dungeons and I've never seen a DD sorc who would not have been using it, relying only on a healer. Any l2p issue is not a case here.
Nah the high end group using a shield is pretty much a wasted slot, as long as the dd's can dodge block, the tank can get aggro and the healer can heal/dps when needed you don't need shields in vet dungeons.
As I've said, I've never seen any sorc who would not have been using it. Even among players who are considered as the part of the 'highest quality' playerbase. Apparently ESO is only for elite players...
No it's just basic, if your a dd why waste time and use a shield, you won't be getting hit either way.
Believe it or not every other dd in the game makes it through without using a 20k shield in pve.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...1 -
sirrmattus✭✭✭✭✭If you'r using shields in vet dungeons or trials, then you'r doing something wrong. For solo PvE its different, but in group play you need to rely on your healer to keep you alive. If he cant do that then 1 of you need to L2P.
Of course I use dmg shields in vet group dungeons and I've never seen a DD sorc who would not have been using it, relying only on a healer. Any l2p issue is not a case here.
Sorry buddy. It is a l2p issue. What do you need 30sec of shield for anyway? One smack from kena will dissolve itEbonheart Pact - North American Server
- THE MORALES -0 -
Tyrion87✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭sirrmattus wrote: »If you'r using shields in vet dungeons or trials, then you'r doing something wrong. For solo PvE its different, but in group play you need to rely on your healer to keep you alive. If he cant do that then 1 of you need to L2P.
Of course I use dmg shields in vet group dungeons and I've never seen a DD sorc who would not have been using it, relying only on a healer. Any l2p issue is not a case here.
Sorry buddy. It is a l2p issue. What do you need 30sec of shield for anyway? One smack from kena will dissolve it
It's funny that every thread on this forum has to end with 'l2p' or 'pvp' issue.
It seems that there is only one way to play this game and nobody can have his/her own playstyle.4 -
Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »If you'r using shields in vet dungeons or trials, then you'r doing something wrong. For solo PvE its different, but in group play you need to rely on your healer to keep you alive. If he cant do that then 1 of you need to L2P.
Of course I use dmg shields in vet group dungeons and I've never seen a DD sorc who would not have been using it, relying only on a healer. Any l2p issue is not a case here.
Nah the high end group using a shield is pretty much a wasted slot, as long as the dd's can dodge block, the tank can get aggro and the healer can heal/dps when needed you don't need shields in vet dungeons.
As I've said, I've never seen any sorc who would not have been using it. Even among players who are considered as the part of the 'highest quality' playerbase. Apparently ESO is only for elite players...
No it's just basic, if your a dd why waste time and use a shield, you won't be getting hit either way.
Believe it or not every other dd in the game makes it through without using a 20k shield in pve.
every other dd has 4-8k more health than the typical dd-sorc.spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"2 -
sirrmattus✭✭✭✭✭sirrmattus wrote: »If you'r using shields in vet dungeons or trials, then you'r doing something wrong. For solo PvE its different, but in group play you need to rely on your healer to keep you alive. If he cant do that then 1 of you need to L2P.
Of course I use dmg shields in vet group dungeons and I've never seen a DD sorc who would not have been using it, relying only on a healer. Any l2p issue is not a case here.
Sorry buddy. It is a l2p issue. What do you need 30sec of shield for anyway? One smack from kena will dissolve it
It's funny that every thread on this forum has to end with 'l2p' or 'pvp' issue.
It seems that there is only one way to play this game and nobody can have his/her own playstyle.
Sorry but it's true. If you can't avoid the little red circle on the ground or dodge roll a projectile coming towards you that you are forced to shield stack in a dungeon with a healer spamming heals and a tank taking most of the agro. Then yes it's a l2p issue. Get over it. It's still 6 sec of 40k shields and now it's a pure 40k shield not 'half magick and half magick physical 'Ebonheart Pact - North American Server
- THE MORALES -0 -
Tyrion87✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭sirrmattus wrote: »sirrmattus wrote: »If you'r using shields in vet dungeons or trials, then you'r doing something wrong. For solo PvE its different, but in group play you need to rely on your healer to keep you alive. If he cant do that then 1 of you need to L2P.
Of course I use dmg shields in vet group dungeons and I've never seen a DD sorc who would not have been using it, relying only on a healer. Any l2p issue is not a case here.
Sorry buddy. It is a l2p issue. What do you need 30sec of shield for anyway? One smack from kena will dissolve it
It's funny that every thread on this forum has to end with 'l2p' or 'pvp' issue.
It seems that there is only one way to play this game and nobody can have his/her own playstyle.
Sorry but it's true. If you can't avoid the little red circle on the ground or dodge roll a projectile coming towards you that you are forced to shield stack in a dungeon with a healer spamming heals and a tank taking most of the agro. Then yes it's a l2p issue. Get over it. It's still 6 sec of 40k shields and now it's a pure 40k shield not 'half magick and half magick physical '
Who said I cannot dodge/block/avoid red circles? I do it all the time and I know how to behave during the fights. But despite all of this you can still be hit hard with a huge damage which healer cannot heal immediately, especially when he's down.2 -
dimensional✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have no words for ZOS how many incompetent employees you hire who make decisions regarding balance changes. There wasn't, there isn't and apparently there will be no balance in this game at all. Each time you buff one class, the other becomes useless and ruined. I get an impression that people who had created this game are not the same people who are maintaining it now...
Translation = QQ QQ QQ2 -
sirrmattus✭✭✭✭✭Idk what to tell you man. I do dungeons with a little squishy Nb that has no self heals or shields. I do dungeons with my sorc and have never put shield on my bar. I do dungeons with my templar and stand in the front line with no shields spamming my spear. I don't play dk.
You have power surge that heals you for every crit shot you do. You have boundless storm gives you huge spell and physical resistance. You have so many ways to be alive not to mention the 40k shields and now ur crying that they last only 6 seconds. Give us a breakEbonheart Pact - North American Server
- THE MORALES -1 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Why do I need that massive dmg shields combination (harness+hardened ward) if it lasts so short that it might not be fully consumed during the battle? I see that players who don't play sorc are very glad for the reduction of the duration of shields. But I think it's only from PvP perspective (sorcs will be much easier to kill which is obvious). But such non-sorc players don't think that, when PvEing, sorcs (DD ones) will be doing much less damage cause all their magicka will be used for reapplying the shields (just to be able to survive) and the damage will be done exclusively by staves and only from time to time between casting shields (and even with less choice of offensive abilities cause shields will have to be put into main bar). Sorcs won't have any reliable defence and will be fragile as funk. As a result, it will affect all 4-man groups while doing the group dungeons because it will just reduce the damage done by the group overall, the duration of dungeon runs and their overall difficulty. Don't blame sorcs then that they won't be doing much damage... I don't PvP much so it doesn't bother me from that perspective. I mainly PvE and as such, taking into account how much time I have put into my only char which is magicka sorc, there will be really no pleasure for me to play anymore and most likely I'll quit.
I have no words for ZOS how many incompetent employees you hire who make decisions regarding balance changes. There wasn't, there isn't and apparently there will be no balance in this game at all. Each time you buff one class, the other becomes useless and ruined. I get an impression that people who had created this game are not the same people who are maintaining it now...Totally agree. And just think of the MA: all of your magicka pool will go in shields for the mere sake of surviving...
Stop your crying. That's exactly what we stamina builds used to suffer from by all of our defence mechanics like block and dodge draining our main pool.
So your reasoning is: since we were crying, now it's the high time for you to cry... Why does anybody have to cry?
No my logic is that we suffered but we adapted instead of crying. I believe you should do the same.1 -
Birdovic✭✭✭✭✭Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »How about not going around with 12k healt and 45k magika but instead have a normal pool of 16-20k and avoid some damage?
Maybe sorcerers now will learn to avoid the Red circles instead of spamming shields.
I still dont understand people using this dumb argument, going for more healtth and less magicka. Explain me why the hell this should be better.Attempt and Thoughts to Overhaul Scaling, Attribute System and Enchantments
Improving the Sorcerer class: Ideas
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