MornaBaine wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

phreatophile wrote: »

I had to read them 3 times. Each time I said "***?" a little louder.

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

It's like they read none of the feedback from all the times they've gimped Vampires...

Ya, this is crap. Anybody remember where we left the torches and pitchforks.

WTF??? You you PLEASE link the notes here? I can't seem to find them! AUUUUGHGHHH!!!

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/261799/pts-patch-notes-v2-4-0

THANK YOU!

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Combat & Gameplay

World

• Vampire
  • Dark Stalker: This passive ability now only functions when you are in Vampire Stage 4.
  • Drain Essence: This ability and its morphs now tick 3 times over their channel durations, down from 4, but their damage per tick has been increased and they now restore 20% of your missing health per tick to compensate.
  • Mist Form:
    • This ability and its morphs now remove previously applied snares and immobilizations, in addition to making you immune to any new ones while active.
    • Increased the cost of this ability and its morphs by approximately 5%.
    • Updated the tooltip for this ability and its morphs to indicate it has always disabled your Magicka Recovery while active.
  • Poison Mist (Mist Form morph):
    • Renamed this morph to Baleful Mist.
    • In addition to the changes made to the base ability, this morph now ticks and deals damage every second instead of every 1.5 seconds, causing it to deal damage 1 additional time over its duration.
    • This morph now deals Magic Damage instead of Poison Damage.
  • Supernatural Recovery: This passive ability no longer requires a Vampire ability to be slotted, and now only functions when you are in Vampire Stage 2 or higher.
  • Undeath: This passive ability now only functions when you are in Vampire Stage 3 or higher.
  • Vampirism:
    • Increased the timer to advance each Vampire Stage to 6 hours from 30 minutes, but casting any Vampire ability will advance this timer by 30 minutes. Feeding as a Vampire will continue to lower your Vampire Stage by 1.
    • Vampire Stage benefits and penalties are now as follows:
      • Stage 1: 0% Flame Damage taken, 0% Vampire Ability cost reduction, 0% Health Recovery reduction
      • Stage 2: 15% Flame Damage taken, 7% Vampire Ability cost reduction, 25% Health Recovery reduction
      • Stage 3: 20% Flame Damage taken, 14% Vampire Ability cost reduction, 50% Health Recovery reduction
      • Stage 4: 25% Flame Damage taken, 21% Vampire Ability cost reduction, 75% Health Recovery reduction

ListerJMC wrote: »

Ok but why did they have to make dark stalker only active at stage 4?! There was absolutely no reason for that change .

MornaBaine wrote: »

ListerJMC wrote: »

Ok but why did they have to make dark stalker only active at stage 4?! There was absolutely no reason for that change .

Yeah I'm pretty furious about that one. It's like they CAN'T do anything nice for vampires without ALSO punishing them. SIGH.
Why ZOS...just...WHY????

ParaNostram wrote: »

[
We all know how it's worked in past games, some of us have played since Daggerfall. Now then, speaking of reading, you ought to go to the head of this thread and see the arguments for how, oh idk, the skill line isn't finished and how easy it could be to finish it? Just a thought.

Abeille wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

ListerJMC wrote: »

Ok but why did they have to make dark stalker only active at stage 4?! There was absolutely no reason for that change .

Their reason is to make us regret playing vampire as much as they regret creating them apparently. They can't even be bothered to finish the skill line.

The skill-line is finished though, unless if ZoS claims otherwise. The only reason Werewolves got more skills is because those skills are dependant on an ultimate form. So those are in a sense not even 'active' abilities in the purest sense of it, but rather an extension of the ultimate's ability.

Abeille wrote: »

I hate that some passives won't work depending on your stage

Well, it fits way more with Elder Scrolls lore, as well as how vampirism was in previous installments of TES. Let me quote myself from a few minutes ago:

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Let me put it more clear really, as vampirism is now more in line with TES lore, it so too is focused on being either "Well-Fed" or "Starved", both of which are respectively focused on being defensive and offensive stages of a vampires life.

While the vampire is at stage 1 "well-fed" they now have no weaknesses what so ever, none, nothing of the sort. In return, their don't have nearly as much benefits either. Which makes this a very neutral stage to be in, almost nearly the same as being mortal. Where in turn, the added benefits comes up the further you go, but with said benefits, comes the weaknesses, just like Elder Scrolls vampirism always has been.

Stage 1:
- No Fire weakness
- Full health recovery
- Batswarm
- Drain Essence
- Mistform

Stage 2:
- 15% weakness to fire
- 25% reduced health recovery
- 7% reduction to vampire ability cost
- 10% increased Stamina and Magicka recovery
- Batswarm
- Drain Essence
- Mistform
(Gained 15% weakness to fire and lost 25% health recovery for 7% reduced vampire ability cost and 10% Stamina and Magicka Recovery.)

Stage 3:
- 20% weakness to fire
- 50% reduced health recovery
- 14% reduction to vampire ability cost
- 10% increased Stamina and Magicka recovery
- 33% reduced damage taken when health is below 50%
- Batswarm
- Drain Essence
- Mistform
(Gained 20% weakness to fire and lost 50% health recovery for 14% reduced vampire ability cost, 33% reduced damage taken when health is below 50% and 10% extra stamina and magicka recovery!)

Stage 4:
- 25% weakness to fire
- 75% reduced health recovery
- 21% reduction to vampire ability cost
- 10% increased Stamina and Magicka recovery
- 33% reduced damage taken when health is below 50%
- Increased sneak speed and increased sneaking timer at night.
- Batswarm
- Drain Essence
- Mistform
(Gained 25% weakness to fire and lost 75% health recovery for 21% reduced vampire ability cost, 33% reduced damage taken when health is below 50%, 10% extra stamina and magicka recovery AND increased sneak speed plus sneak timer at night!)

IF all of these are not some of the greatest gameplay, and lore approbiate vampire changes we've ever had in Elder Scrolls Online, then I don't know what is. It literally fits the mold, and it gives purpose to both lower stages of vampirism, as well as higher stages. Both have their strengths and weaknesses, as it should be!

Yes, I am super- SUPER hyped for these changes. I feared the worst when I heard they wanted to reballance vampirism, but I am so pleasently surprised that its beyond mere words.

Especially when you combine it into the whole changes to the Fighters Guild line, with them now only dealing 20% additional damage, no matter the ability in the Fighters Guild arsenal, then this is only a massive buff to vampirism, that has little to no downsides!

Was making the passives stop working completely necessary, though? On top of the changes to weakness to fire/health recovery/ability cost?

As I suggested on another thread, they could have made the passives benefit each stage on a different degree (say, the higher your stage, the better is the speed penalty mitigation for Dark Stalker). Making them completely stop working, now? I am permanently on stage 4, but if I preferred Stage 1 I would have three completely useless passives. I don't think that's the right path at all.

ShadowHvo wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

[
We all know how it's worked in past games, some of us have played since Daggerfall. Now then, speaking of reading, you ought to go to the head of this thread and see the arguments for how, oh idk, the skill line isn't finished and how easy it could be to finish it? Just a thought.

Those are not arguments on how to "Fix" or "Complete" the skill-line, those are arguments, suggestions if you will, on how to furthermore 'possibly' improve it.

Claiming that the skill-line is unfinished, or otherwise incomplete, is blatant lying and false statements.

Would more active abilities be awesome? Yes. But is it sorrely needed to get the vampire experience in TES? No. Vampires has always been more about passives, rather than abilities. Hence why vampires typically uses all other spells as well, and not just their vampiric powers.

Since you've played since Daggerfall, I'm certain you're aware of that.

ShadowHvo wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

[
We all know how it's worked in past games, some of us have played since Daggerfall. Now then, speaking of reading, you ought to go to the head of this thread and see the arguments for how, oh idk, the skill line isn't finished and how easy it could be to finish it? Just a thought.

Those are not arguments on how to "Fix" or "Complete" the skill-line, those are arguments, suggestions if you will, on how to furthermore 'possibly' improve it.

Claiming that the skill-line is unfinished, or otherwise incomplete, is blatant lying and false statements.

Would more active abilities be awesome? Yes. But is it sorrely needed to get the vampire experience in TES? No. Vampires has always been more about passives, rather than abilities. Hence why vampires typically uses all other spells as well, and not just their vampiric powers.

Since you've played since Daggerfall, I'm certain you're aware of that.

Dude, if you've been in any of Morna's threads before you should have read the argument for how vampirism is incomplete. Also, in past ESO games we've been able to do the Necromancy stuffs! Where is that here? Vampires have a natural affinity for Necromancy, where is that here? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..... Maybe we should, *gasp* add an active for it! We're also missing vampire sight, maybe that can be another knocking out of stealth active? My goodness, two abilities traditionally in TES games for vampires that can be implemented here! It's almost as if we don't have the full vampire experience, AKA IT ISN'T FINISHED!

But yeah, keep defending an unfinished product friendo. *head pats*

How can you even claim that you play since Daggerfall, and by such, make me assume you know how vampirism in TES is handled, when you clearly by this very post do not?

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Vampires
Notice how in Morrowind Vampirism was literally ONE, yes read clearly, ONE (1) active ability, the rest were passives.

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Vampirism
Now notice how in Oblivion, they introduced stages, which gave the vampire MORE POWERS the FURTHER they starved, and at thus, the less weaknesses they had when well-fed! In fact, they only have four abilities by stage 4.

Sense a pattern yet? No?

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Vampirism
Now notice how Skyrim shares the same mold! Few abilities to begin with, and yet more gets added the FURTHER you starve. With the grand total of FIVE at stage 4. Yet again, passives are the domination factor, just like previous installments. Not only with that, Skyrim is also the first game to add Raise dead, or rather "Vampire's Servant" as an vampire ability.

I'm telling you again, that you're flat out wrong in your malicious assumption. Not only is Elder Scrolls lore far deeper than you seem to believe. But you claim that its all about active abilities, when it clearly throughout the years of Elder Scrolls, has always been more about the passives WHEN it comes to vampirism. Those are the domination factor of what makes the vampire a vampire, not their ability to reanimate the dead, charm the living or drain life, which mind you.. can be done with ordinary TES magic as well.

I'm sorry that this sounds so harsh, but man, you don't seem to even know TES vampirism.

ShadowHvo wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

Not a man, and you were referring to recent games for your knowledge of vampirism and precedence of vampire mechanics. Only the past two games have had stages. I was trying to get on your level, thinking you'd understand then. Instead you try to use it as a means of invalidating my points when I did not take such a swing at you. Well played, good sir!

Oh, also, while we're talking about active vs passive abilities... In previous Elder scrolls games, how big was the action bar? 1. One singular spell slot, wait, there's more, I see something, OMG! Skyrim can have two, kinda. Well then! Maybe given the emphasis on active combat and abilities in ESO, maybe we can, oh IDK, tailor vampirism to match this theme? I know it's a wild concept to have every aspect of a game be on the same page. If you need me to slow down and repeat anything feel free to ask, I want to make sure you understand after all.

This is not to sound rude, but your gender is irrelevant, man or woman, you call me dude, so I call you man. Its a natural response.

With that aside, I shall quote myself again.

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Now keep in mind, that Morrowind had THREE different vampire bloodlines, while both Skyrim and Oblivion only had one. With TESO, we also only have a single vampire bloodline. All of these bloodlines have different abilities and different passive bonuses, all depending on their specific bloodline. HENCE, ZoS made their own bloodline, which now fits perfectly into the The Elder Scrolls vampirism mold. Its different, its distinctive and its cool. It doesn't have to be either Volkihar, Porphyric Hemophilia, Berne, Aundae or Quarra.. For it is Noxiphilic Sanguivoria, and not any of the others.

You seem to believe that all of Vampirism is the same, no matter the bloodline. And yet, you so beautifully skimmed over and ignored my point about all the said vampire abilities you seek, are actual just normal abilities, all of which can be found under Illusion, Conjuration and Destruction schools of magic. They're not vampire specific, DESPITE that few vampire bloodlines have possesed them as a trait of their bloodline.

It is by no means, by either lore or game-mechanic, a feature ALL vampire bloodlines have. Prove me wrong if you can, for I can ensure you, that you cannot.

Which is where again I will say, that your blatant false statement about Noxiphilic Sanguivoria being incomplete, is but false. It is words you use because YOU are unhappy with the way the bloodline is designed in TES:Online, despite that there are many that really likes the bloodline for what it is.

ZoS took a massive awesome step to make Noxiphilic Sanguivoria fit into the Elder Scrolls mold of Vampirism, and they finally got it in there. It -finally- is vampirism. Not as supernatural strong as they're in the single-player installements of the series. But still as cool. (Thank you MMO balancing.) But your blatant false statement ticks me off, to be blunt. For when ZoS finally dares to take an awesome, risky step in the right direction, (Should you ask me) then people like you have the audacity to come and claim that it is incomplete, simply because it does not follow your ideal version of a vampiric bloodline in the TES universe. Despite the fact that we have several hundreds, and each one being different to the other.