Elder Scroll Vs ESO - Let's Talk about Replayability

Svalinn · April 2016

I love the Elder Scroll Game and i love Elder Scroll Online... but i've been thinking about replayabiliy issues that the online game has compared to the normal ones so i wanted to share my toughts with all of you and see if anyone else feels the same way... hoping to have a constructive talk.

What kept me play Elder Scrolls game for years were, in factm the great amount of replayability the game had... i mean even today i could install Oblivion into my PC and, even having the same quests and the same areas, have a completly different experience from the times i played it in the past.

The thing is... different "classes" feel different.. deciding to concentrate on different skill lines makes the whole game feel different.. you can deide to be a close range warrior or a thief, or a killer or wathever and everything feels different almost every time.

You can go into shop and houses at night and find out that the storekeepers are sleeping so you could steal everything you find and even try to pickpocket them.. everything goes wrong you're going to be chased by the whole village... can't "buy" stuff at night too.. the day/night rcircle was very important to me to have different gameplay experiences.

Even going into "delves" was totally different in regard of the kind of character you were building and everything went togheter to be awesome and, expecially, long lasting.

This i have not found in ESO were i managed to get a character to vet 16 and then... the idea of repeating the game again with another, different, character is already "boring" in my mind.

What i mean is that regardless what different class or skill line i pick the classes feels kind of... the same thing.. meaning you see an enemy, you hit a key, a skill goes off... it's the exact same mechanic with almost every class be it close range, long range or wathever.

I remember in other elder scrolls games the "skills" for close combat were actually related to the direction you were moving etc thus making the whole experience totally different from a simple "button press to cast a different skill" kind of thing.

Even as far as stealth goes... you could rash into delves head on.. or you could actually stealth them most of the times... two completely different experiences in the same place.. in ESO i can't do that because the delves seems to be made in such a way that... even if you try to be stealthy you'll be forced to fight head on because you'll find immoble NPCs guarding doors watching always in the same direction as if the game itself is telling you "you've got to fight head on no matter what":

I can't even decide to "really" play a thief (still have to play the TG DLC but it really doesn't matter now since i'm talking about the game as a whole) and well.. i can't wait night to enter houses or store and find people asleep in order to steal or anything like that because it seems there's no day - night circle for NPCs like in other games thus preventing me from using a different immersive game style.

What i mean is that, no matter how i try, Elder Scroll games feels like a totally different experience every time i start them over again... ESO feels like the same thing no matter what for some reason.

Well these are my thoughts and my consideration and i sure don't epect everyone to feel the same about them.. please don't answer with stuff like "you don't like the game just go away" or anything like that cause i still like the game.. i just find myself "discuraged" from playing it again with other classes.

Every thought and opinion is welcome ^^

Shadesofkin · April 2016

Apples and Oranges, I didn't come to ESO expecting the full single player experience of an ES game, I came expecting a chapter in the book of the world of Elder Scrolls, I got that. I played Battlespire and Redguard too.

I get your reasoning, I just don't feel it myself.

QuebraRegra · April 2016

OBLIVION had better traps... Miss the crushing pillars, and the shooting eye thingees

WalkingLegacy · April 2016

Unfortunately ESO is linear, on the rails experience over TES open world RPG.

I cannot imagine playing an alt through ESO. Cadwells and the same zones in a row every character, hunting the same skillshards down, etc just kills it for me.

I'll be happy when I can finish the grind through this cadwell crap and move on to the DLCs.

Svalinn · April 2016

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Unfortunately ESO is linear, on the rails experience over TES open world RPG.

I cannot imagine playing an alt through ESO. Cadwells and the same zones in a row every character, hunting the same skillshards down, etc just kills it for me.

I'll be happy when I can finish the grind through this cadwell crap and move on to the DLCs.

Same here.. the thing is my vet char is a tank charachter... that is really not suited for beeing a thief or a killer (for the upcoming DLC).

So i've been trying to make a more stealthy char and well.. it's a PAIN because everything feels... already done and boring xD

I mean i already have the cadwell gold but i still didn't play the Tief Guild only because my vet char doesn't feel a thief xD

UltimaJoe777 · April 2016

Things have to be different for an MMO compared to a single player game. The reason is because so many others play the game from different parts of the world. Also not everyone has a lot of time to play so the whole no shopping at night thing could inconvenience many for instance.

That's just how it is when comparing single player games to online multiplayer games.

Svalinn · April 2016

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Things have to be different for an MMO compared to a single player game. The reason is because so many others play the game from different parts of the world. Also not everyone has a lot of time to play so the whole no shopping at night thing could inconvenience many for instance.

That's just how it is when comparing single player games to online multiplayer games.

I agree but that's really just ONE aspect of it ^^ This said.. why can't normal NPC go to sleep at night leaving the houses ready for pillaging and trespassing?

I mean.. Elder SCrolls NPCs have daily routines and move around... ESO NPCs are well... still all the time?

Shadesofkin · April 2016

Svalinn wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Things have to be different for an MMO compared to a single player game. The reason is because so many others play the game from different parts of the world. Also not everyone has a lot of time to play so the whole no shopping at night thing could inconvenience many for instance.

That's just how it is when comparing single player games to online multiplayer games.

I agree but that's really just ONE aspect of it ^^ This said.. why can't normal NPC go to sleep at night leaving the houses ready for pillaging and trespassing?

I mean.. Elder SCrolls NPCs have daily routines and move around... ESO NPCs are well... still all the time?

I'm not disagreeing with you, but it's such a minor thing that I don't believe it's even registered with the development team as an issue. If you're really adamant about it, put it in /feedback in game once a week and encourage others to do so.

UltimaJoe777 · April 2016

Svalinn wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Things have to be different for an MMO compared to a single player game. The reason is because so many others play the game from different parts of the world. Also not everyone has a lot of time to play so the whole no shopping at night thing could inconvenience many for instance.

That's just how it is when comparing single player games to online multiplayer games.

I agree but that's really just ONE aspect of it ^^ This said.. why can't normal NPC go to sleep at night leaving the houses ready for pillaging and trespassing?

I mean.. Elder SCrolls NPCs have daily routines and move around... ESO NPCs are well... still all the time?

Thing is you can trespass anyway outside of Hew's Bane with absolutely no consequences whatsoever so you can pillage said home anytime you want. I do get what you mean but there is a lot to consider here as well. For starters, the fact ESO has absolutely NO children in it whatsoever.

Svalinn · April 2016

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Thing is you can trespass anyway outside of Hew's Bane with absolutely no consequences whatsoever so you can pillage said home anytime you want. I do get what you mean but there is a lot to consider here as well. For starters, the fact ESO has absolutely NO children in it whatsoever.

I understand what you mean.. what i'm saying is that "getting into an house for pillaging at ANY time" and "having to plan your pillagin based on the time of day, trying to pick a door open while the guard pass by you with his torch, to go in and find NPCs sleeping and trying ti pickpocket themwhitout waking them up"... gives you the same result BUT totally different game experiences

Tandor · April 2016

Suspecting the way a MMO version of TES would unfold, and knowing that a MMO is intended to be played for years rather than weeks or months, I resolved from the outset (which for me was the PC launch two years ago) to take things slowly. As an altoholic that involved not only running multiple characters (the definition of "replayability") including, ultimately, a second account, but also determining at an early stage not to play Cadwell's quests (which weren't part of the original design and were only added late in beta in response to concerns from testers that a single character player would only see a third of the game) at least without first doing those quests with alternative characters native to those alliances.

As a result, after two years I currently have a single character at VR level with a dozen or so other characters at various stages of "leveling up". I consider them all infinitely playable, although I must confess that for me the replayability factor would be enhanced somewhat if some things like dye unlocks and champion points were character-specific rather than account-wide.

All of my characters across all four classes have different builds and while I'm not an active role-player those builds are based on different styles so that, for example, I have a Bosmer nightblade archer as well as a Dark Elf nightblade assassin. The latter is definitely better suited to the Thieves Guild than my Imperial paladin-style templar, or even the archer who is pretty druidic in nature.

It was always my intention to use the various DLCs as they appeared to provide alternative high-end leveling to Cadwell's, and now the VR levels are being dropped and we're well into the DLCs that becomes altogether more practical, and with each DLC appealing more to some of my characters than others. Chasing champion points will certainly not have the same significance to me as chasing VR levels.

The game therefore continues to provide a varied and viable entertainment consistent with the single-player TES games - every single one of which I have played extensively from Arena onwards -although I can fully understand that some of those who have proceeded at a normal pace - let alone rushed - through the game to VR16 will likely balk at repeating all the same content again - notwithstanding that many have done just that without complaint.

In short, I never thought a MMO version of TES would be the same as a single player version, and I planned ahead accordingly. With no interest in PvP and no sense of competitiveness in the way I play MMOs, I have not been disappointed with ESO and still feel the same buzz when leveling up my 12th character as I did when leveling my first one two years ago. Talking of which, I still have four slots free so time to roll up a 13th character, now how about a dual-wielding sorcerer in heavy armour, haven't tried that one yet...

!

TLDR: Whether repeating the game with a different character is fun or boring depends ultimately on how you approach the game. For me it isn't a problem, rather it's a pleasure, but I fully accept that my approach is not for everyone

!

Svalinn · April 2016

Tandor wrote: »

Suspecting the way a MMO version of TES would unfold, and knowing that a MMO is intended to be played for years rather than weeks or months, I resolved from the outset (which for me was the PC launch two years ago) to take things slowly. As an altoholic that involved not only running multiple characters (the definition of "replayability") including, ultimately, a second account, but also determining at an early stage not to play Cadwell's quests (which weren't part of the original design and were only added late in beta in response to concerns from testers that a single character player would only see a third of the game) at least without first doing those quests with alternative characters native to those alliances.

As a result, after two years I currently have a single character at VR level with a dozen or so other characters at various stages of "leveling up". I consider them all infinitely playable, although I must confess that for me the replayability factor would be enhanced somewhat if some things like dye unlocks and champion points were character-specific rather than account-wide.

All of my characters across all four classes have different builds and while I'm not an active role-player those builds are based on different styles so that, for example, I have a Bosmer nightblade archer as well as a Dark Elf nightblade assassin. The latter is definitely better suited to the Thieves Guild than my Imperial paladin-style templar, or even the archer who is pretty druidic in nature.

It was always my intention to use the various DLCs as they appeared to provide alternative high-end leveling to Cadwell's, and now the VR levels are being dropped and we're well into the DLCs that becomes altogether more practical, and with each DLC appealing more to some of my characters than others. Chasing champion points will certainly not have the same significance to me as chasing VR levels.

The game therefore continues to provide a varied and viable entertainment consistent with the single-player TES games - every single one of which I have played extensively from Arena onwards -although I can fully understand that some of those who have proceeded at a normal pace - let alone rushed - through the game to VR16 will likely balk at repeating all the same content again - notwithstanding that many have done just that without complaint.

In short, I never thought a MMO version of TES would be the same as a single player version, and I planned ahead accordingly. With no interest in PvP and no sense of competitiveness in the way I play MMOs, I have not been disappointed with ESO and still feel the same buzz when leveling up my 12th character as I did when leveling my first one two years ago. Talking of which, I still have four slots free so time to roll up a 13th character, now how about a dual-wielding sorcerer in heavy armour, haven't tried that one yet... !

TLDR: Whether repeating the game with a different character is fun or boring depends ultimately on how you approach the game. For me it isn't a problem, rather it's a pleasure, but I fully accept that my approach is not for everyone !

I can agree on your way of playing and how the game feels for you.. so i want to ask this: let's not talk about quests, let's talk about different "classes" you play.

Do they feel "different" to you? Because to me it feels like i do the same thing with a different graphical effect (different skills etc).

It's a serious question ^^

Gidorick · April 2016

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Things have to be different for an MMO compared to a single player game. The reason is because so many others play the game from different parts of the world. Also not everyone has a lot of time to play so the whole no shopping at night thing could inconvenience many for instance.

That's just how it is when comparing single player games to online multiplayer games.

I have said this in other threads @UltimaJoe777 ... Almost every single aspect of a an Elder Scrolls single player game could be adapted for multiplayer.

You give me an aspect of gameplay that is in a single player game, and I'll tell you how it can be accomplished in an MMO.

Tandor · April 2016

Svalinn wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Suspecting the way a MMO version of TES would unfold, and knowing that a MMO is intended to be played for years rather than weeks or months, I resolved from the outset (which for me was the PC launch two years ago) to take things slowly. As an altoholic that involved not only running multiple characters (the definition of "replayability") including, ultimately, a second account, but also determining at an early stage not to play Cadwell's quests (which weren't part of the original design and were only added late in beta in response to concerns from testers that a single character player would only see a third of the game) at least without first doing those quests with alternative characters native to those alliances.

As a result, after two years I currently have a single character at VR level with a dozen or so other characters at various stages of "leveling up". I consider them all infinitely playable, although I must confess that for me the replayability factor would be enhanced somewhat if some things like dye unlocks and champion points were character-specific rather than account-wide.

All of my characters across all four classes have different builds and while I'm not an active role-player those builds are based on different styles so that, for example, I have a Bosmer nightblade archer as well as a Dark Elf nightblade assassin. The latter is definitely better suited to the Thieves Guild than my Imperial paladin-style templar, or even the archer who is pretty druidic in nature.

It was always my intention to use the various DLCs as they appeared to provide alternative high-end leveling to Cadwell's, and now the VR levels are being dropped and we're well into the DLCs that becomes altogether more practical, and with each DLC appealing more to some of my characters than others. Chasing champion points will certainly not have the same significance to me as chasing VR levels.

The game therefore continues to provide a varied and viable entertainment consistent with the single-player TES games - every single one of which I have played extensively from Arena onwards -although I can fully understand that some of those who have proceeded at a normal pace - let alone rushed - through the game to VR16 will likely balk at repeating all the same content again - notwithstanding that many have done just that without complaint.

In short, I never thought a MMO version of TES would be the same as a single player version, and I planned ahead accordingly. With no interest in PvP and no sense of competitiveness in the way I play MMOs, I have not been disappointed with ESO and still feel the same buzz when leveling up my 12th character as I did when leveling my first one two years ago. Talking of which, I still have four slots free so time to roll up a 13th character, now how about a dual-wielding sorcerer in heavy armour, haven't tried that one yet... !

TLDR: Whether repeating the game with a different character is fun or boring depends ultimately on how you approach the game. For me it isn't a problem, rather it's a pleasure, but I fully accept that my approach is not for everyone !

I can agree on your way of playing and how the game feels for you.. so i want to ask this: let's not talk about quests, let's talk about different "classes" you play.

Do they feel "different" to you? Because to me it feels like i do the same thing with a different graphical effect (different skills etc).

It's a serious question ^^

Pretty much so, yes. I do approach fights in different ways - melee or ranged, unaccompanied or with summoned familiars, with one hotbar or the other, etc. The different classes all have different approaches in those respects. Fighting up close with a two-hander is different to standing back casting spells with or without familiars, and the different class skills reflect that.

However, in any game whether it's a single-player or a MMO, the common feature is that in any fight regardless of class you click on a few skill buttons and the fight is over. It's how you approach your character that makes each one different, and that is the same whether you're playing a single player like Skyrim or a MMO like ESO.

Svalinn · April 2016

Tandor wrote: »

Pretty much so, yes. I do approach fights in different ways - melee or ranged, unaccompanied or with summoned familiars, with one hotbar or the other, etc. The different classes all have different approaches in those respects. Fighting up close with a two-hander is different to standing back casting spells with or without familiars, and the different class skills reflect that.

However, in any game whether it's a single-player or a MMO, the common feature is that in any fight regardless of class you click on a few skill buttons and the fight is over. It's how you approach your character that makes each one different, and that is the same whether you're playing a single player like Skyrim or a MMO like ESO.

i respect your opinion even tho it doesn't feel the same way for me.. but i don't agree on the last part, i mean the "in any game whether it's seingle player or mmo" etc etc..

I mean... if you actually play other Single Player S games then yu should know that melee moves and magic moves, for example, are TOTALLY different in their execution. It's not only a matter of "pressing one button to skill" but they go with direction pressing for different moves etc.

Even in other games that are NOT ES games the "skills" dependss most on a combination of button and the order of them creating comboes and such making the fighting itself extremyl different from player to player even using the very same character and no, of course i'm NOT talking about fighting games ^^