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Crating Bag Exclusivity is Unfair
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DocFrost72✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Sorry, but if you put this on the crown store it kinda defeats the purpose of subbing to get it...when you could buy it.
ZoS wants you to sub, easy enough to comprehend and totally justifiable as they're a business. Now the kicker: we've lasted 2+ years without, meaning it is not essential.
Now, if you want to put it on the crown store, make the cost 1500 crowns a month. That way, there is no difference in price (and the incentive is still to sub, as you get 1500 crowns AND the bag).
But asking for it without sub or one time fee is just silly, in my opinion anyway.3 -
PS4_ZeColmeia✭✭✭✭✭Appearantly people don't understand how companies work. I know the whole idea of democratic socialism sounds great (until you learn the history of the origin of the word, i.e. Lenin and Stalin) but the world doesn't work that way.
Any company's sole goal is to offer a product or service which separates money from their consumers. The means to do this are ever evolving and shifting. This is a new shift.
Also, any company will tell you that the $5 loss a quarter for the ESO+ vs a major expansion like orsinium or only charging $25 for a smaller expansion like TG is much preferred. Why? Guaranteed revenue is better than spike revenue because it covers your costs while they are incurred.
I know this is a foreign concept that "evil greedy corporations" have costs but yes, equipment, employees, utilities, buildings, taxes, transfer costs, government regulations all are costs and they are incurred monthly and quarterly.
A plus subscription level loads their revenue. My guess is that the expansions this year are going to be TG/DB sized and so the "why sub when I could just buy outright would naturally come up". This more than likely is their internal counter-measure to that risk.
Please start a small business and read your OP in 2 years, you'll laugh.PSN: ***___Chan (3 _s)
Hybrid, All-Role NB5 -
themdogesbite✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes let's add something to the subscription that isn't even offering anything of value for most players anyways.:]0 -
Woeler✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭"I want everything for free without effort!", oh goodie, life is going to be hard for you.2 -
Slurg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Wanderinlost, have you considered changing your thread title? The title seems to have attracted some [snip] into the thread who only read headlines and assume you are asking for free things. You have some interesting points, and some of the respondents have interesting counter points, and it's a shame that these discussions are buried. [snip]
[edited for flaming]Edited by ZOS_CoriJ on April 26, 2016 2:41PMHappy All the Holidays To You and Yours!
Remembering better days of less RNG in all the things.3 -
kojou✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Wanderinlost, have you considered changing your thread title? The title seems to have attracted some into the thread who only read headlines and assume you are asking for free things. You have some interesting points, and some of the respondents have interesting counter points, and it's a shame that these discussions are buried.
I read the entire post and I still see it as:
ZOS wants to increase subscribers and wants to offer a significant game "quality of life" feature as part of the subscriber perk to do so.
The OP et al do not like this most likely because they don't want to subscribe, but still want the perk.
My conclusion (and it seems like others as well) is that I think it is perfectly reasonable for ZOS to make this a subscriber perk and it is not a particular injustice to the players. If you want the perk subscribe and help pay for the game you love. If you don't then continue to play the game in its current state. Its not like they are taking anything away from you if you don't subscribe.
[minor edit to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_CoriJ on April 26, 2016 2:42PMPlaying since beta...6 -
Nebthet78✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Averya_Teira wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Not being snarky so don't take it as such but if it was doing so well just under sub and being completely exclusive then why do you personally believe the complete change of direction occurred?
I know a lot of content was already pretty much finished or being worked on and a lot of subs were PO at the console port etc but zos must have surely seen the long term financial benefit for the customers and themselves which must have been needed to an extent in order to do a 180 of such magnitude, upsetting a large portion of the player base and creating a whole new UI from the ground up doesn't sound like something a company does on a whim when they'd previously and categorically said they wouldn't.
From what I have understood of things as they occured; Ultimately, ZOS realized console players were not willing to pay for both a sub and Xbox Live or PS+ together and because Microsoft refused to budge on the Live requirement, to get as many players to buy ESO as they could, (due to Skyrim's popularity) they then decided to go to the hybrid Sub/B2P model, even though Sony had actually agreed to drop the PS+ Sub requirement. (Skyrim was much more popular on the XB360).
Except..... You do need PS+ to play ESO...
You do now... but back before it was released on console, Sony agreed to drop the PS+ requirement. But due to Microsoft's refusal to drop it ZOS was forced to change to the hybrid model, therefore, Sony no longer needed to drop the PS+ requirement either. And why would they, when there is money to be made.Far too many characters to list any more.3 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The crafting bag is absolutely fair. It doesn't hinder game play for those that do not sub yet offers a sound reason for being a sub. Perfect incentive for subbing.3 -
Dreyloch✭✭✭✭✭I agree with the OP to some extent. I'd rather play the damn game than have to make sure I have room for all the crafting stuff I accumulate. Plus all the gear I might be saving for one reason or another. I PvP most of the time, so I don't exactlly generate tons of gold. Sure I could try to sell every single thing I "think" I don't want, or may want to try some day. I could also break it down which saves me some time trying to harvest nodes. But I'll tell ya, one run thru to middle IC takes a TON of space for the mostly junk gear drops.
Anyway, I am currently subscribed for one simple reason. Reduction of crafting research times. That's it. Once I'm done with all that? I'll unsub and probably never sub again. So my question is, if this bag thing goes into the game, and we decide to unsub, then what happens? (sorry I wasn't going to read thru 12 pages if someone else asked this already)
"The fear of Death, is often worse than death itself"0 -
rotaugen454✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They need some way to keep people subbing. In 2 years, I have put in $360. I got 36,000 crowns. I could get that buying about 6.5 of the 5500 crown packages. If that is bought when they have the sales, I can get those crowns for about $150. The extra $210 was just for extra XP and crafting boost. My characters are all pretty much maxed, so the XP doesn't mean much and my crafter has it maxed. I could have used the crowns to buy all the DLC. Without some sort of exclusive bonus, they are going to have all the subscribers hit the point I did where there is no benefit to subbing that justifies $15 every month, and they would like to get more subs for a steady income stream. I see why they are doing this."Get off my lawn!"4 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »Here's a tip. Create a guild and travel to the lowbie zones. Recruit new players that are most likely to drop the game immediately. Get sole permission to use the guild bank. I'm up to 1,500 slots now and I don't subscribe and I never will. This is not a game that can warrant a subscription by any means. A crafting bag doesn't hide the terrible performance (The absolute worst out of any MMORPG I play regularly), awful balance and bugs galore.
Even with that you still have to physically go to the bank to deposit your items. Crafting bag its automatic. Crafting bag is also unlimited. The dev guy used a word they will censor on here but basically means its unlimited storage.
Oh please... It takes near zero time to warp to your Cyrodiil campaign to bank from anywhere and it costs no gold. None.
I never said anything about gold and it takes far mre time to port to a bank then it does to instantly have all your crafting mats go into a bag correct?1 -
Xjcon✭✭✭✭✭Can't be bothered to read this many posts but I will say one thing( may have been said already)
This is a bonus for people who have had a sub since they started to play. If others pick up a sub simply for this great. Who us stopping people from subscribing? The unfair police?Briza Do'urdenx V16 Dunmer DK
Jcon V16 Orc DK
Vierna Do'urdenx V16 Bosmer NB
Jarlaxle Baenrex V16 Dunmer NB0 -
GreenGhostMan✭✭✭How is it unfair? I pay to play and you just want everything for free without supporting the game you are playing, like developing things doesn't take time and effort. I should be rewarded for being loyal to the development of the game not completely ignored even when i'm paying for basically nothing because buying crown packs is better you save tons of money.
How do you know he didn't purchase DLC, upgrades, mounts or costumes with crowns? Pretty sure money spent in the crown store is worth the same as money spent on subs. You make it sound like the only paying customers are subscribers. Couldn't be further from the truth.Alozar [] AD [] vet7 High Elf Templar
Dronus Agni [] AD [] 9 Redguard DK
Vaden Luxor [] AD [] 4 Redguard Templar2 -
IcyDeadPeople✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It's a very appealing reason to subscribe, and it doesn't impact PVP balance at all. Seems like a wise move.4 -
ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GreenGhostMan wrote: »How is it unfair? I pay to play and you just want everything for free without supporting the game you are playing, like developing things doesn't take time and effort. I should be rewarded for being loyal to the development of the game not completely ignored even when i'm paying for basically nothing because buying crown packs is better you save tons of money.
How do you know he didn't purchase DLC, upgrades, mounts or costumes with crowns? Pretty sure money spent in the crown store is worth the same as money spent on subs. You make it sound like the only paying customers are subscribers. Couldn't be further from the truth.
While this is true, this is still 'unpredictable' income for ZOS. They know a subscription can be counted on for continuous income until it is canceled... so for any business, being able to plan for continuous income is better than living on unpredictable income. Thus, if ZOS can generate more money they can technically 'count on', it helps them better plan the budgets for the future. Even though a subscription can be cancelled, enticing more people to subscribe is better for ZOS in the long run.CP: 2078 ** ESO+ 2025 Content Pass ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025~~1 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭GreenGhostMan wrote: »How is it unfair? I pay to play and you just want everything for free without supporting the game you are playing, like developing things doesn't take time and effort. I should be rewarded for being loyal to the development of the game not completely ignored even when i'm paying for basically nothing because buying crown packs is better you save tons of money.
How do you know he didn't purchase DLC, upgrades, mounts or costumes with crowns? Pretty sure money spent in the crown store is worth the same as money spent on subs. You make it sound like the only paying customers are subscribers. Couldn't be further from the truth.
Your buddy there yes he bought all that stuff lets assume. How is his game any different after may 31st than before as far as inventory? He still has everything he paid for same as now. If you want a subscriber perk tho you kinda have to subscribe.2 -
dimensional✭✭✭✭✭
✭[
While this is true, this is still 'unpredictable' income for ZOS. They know a subscription can be counted on for continuous income until it is canceled... so for any business, being able to plan for continuous income is better than living on unpredictable income. Thus, if ZOS can generate more money they can technically 'count on', it helps them better plan the budgets for the future. Even though a subscription can be cancelled, enticing more people to subscribe is better for ZOS in the long run.
And the ongoing status of a subscription is just as unpredictable as anything else, so this doesn't really hold up.2 -
ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭dimensional wrote: »[
While this is true, this is still 'unpredictable' income for ZOS. They know a subscription can be counted on for continuous income until it is canceled... so for any business, being able to plan for continuous income is better than living on unpredictable income. Thus, if ZOS can generate more money they can technically 'count on', it helps them better plan the budgets for the future. Even though a subscription can be cancelled, enticing more people to subscribe is better for ZOS in the long run.
And the ongoing status of a subscription is just as unpredictable as anything else, so this doesn't really hold up.
Yes and no. People that bother to subscribe typically don't just subscribe and cancel on a whim, so there is some predictability about it, as well as extended subscriptions are instant money in ZOS' pocket for the duration. So while subscriptions are unpredictable, they also tend to be much more of a stable source of income for ZOS. Besides that, they have the game data so they know who is buying what, who is subscribing, etc... so only they would know what makes the most economic sense.
Regardless, like I said before, I fully expect them to add 'limited' crafting bags to the Crown Store, but the unlimited versions will remain solely for ESO+ subscribers.CP: 2078 ** ESO+ 2025 Content Pass ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025~~1 -
Tommy1979AtWar✭✭✭✭Zos and Bethesda are subsidiaries, subsidiaries are companies controlled by a holding company which in their case would be Zenimax.1 -
dimensional✭✭✭✭✭
✭I bet there's some level of predictability to the people who purchase crowns, as well.0 -
Makkir✭✭✭✭✭
✭If you love the game and want it to survive in the years to come, then make a sacrifice and support the game for 15 bucks a month...5 -
FLuFFyxMuFFiN✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You would think this thread would have died by now. I guess people can't stop arguing the same points over and over again. Crafting bags are for subs. You don't sub you don't get the bag. Plain and simple. Don't make it complicated. ZOS stated that the bags were going to be for subs when they first announced them and now people choose to be upset? Keeping them as sub only is a great decision and I stand by it. Bring on the bags!5 -
Kungfu✭✭✭✭Wanderinlost wrote: »Extremely disappointed they are making crafting bags sub only "perk". It's more than just a nice perk for crafters. It's the exact kind of feature that should not be implemented to sub only because then you are in a position where you feel a subscription is mandatory for your style of play and if you are subscribing then what do all the previous unlocks and DLC purchases amount to? It is a major feature that has been requested for a long damn time. Personally it frustrates me because the game itself is so loot heavy inventory management has been a constant issue since day one, and even with all the space you can currently buy/unlock you can still fill your inventory in 20 minutes of play.
Even if it was priced at $30-$50 it would be far better than this restriction to sub only. It is a buy to play game, and we all bought into that idea and supported the game through DLC and crown purchases, not to have something this important restricted at a later date in order to drive up sub numbers. Making the sub more attractive is fine and good sense but this is taking it too far. For some of us this has been a #1 requested feature for a long time(above content), and there have been many indications by the devs that it would be added sometime in the future. However by making this sub only feature you are putting all your buy to play customers in a extremely distasteful position.
If I am left in a position to sub in order to get this feature or not then I will probably never by any DLC, any crown packs and sub for a month or two per year at best. In the end it will be a lose-lose situation and a great disappointment for what was one of the better examples of MMO monetization. Currently ESO has great flexibility but this move is a major step backwards that nullifies the advantages of B2P and the crown store.
Edit:
ESO+ getting this feature is a great reward and incentive. However putting this feature on the crown store in no way diminishes the value of that feature. ESO+ is going to have the bag, although the rest of us are going to be left with no recourse to improve the dismal inventory management that has plagued us for years other than switching to ESO+, which after buying DLC for a year is a major loss.
Many have argued that this is going to be good for the game as it will increase income the game generates. I would argue the opposite. If it comes down to it, instead of spending over $100-$200 a year on DLC and cash shop purchases it will cost far less to sub a few months per year, not ever buy any crown packs and get the use of the feature at no additional cost. As a loyal player I would prefer not to do this but loyalty can easily turn to hostility when you are faced with the prospect of dealing with inventory woes every 20 minutes with no end in sight or having to abandon the principle Zenimax sold us the game on to get an important QoL feature.
Restriction and exclusivity were the principles F2P was founded on and there are still games today which embrace these qualities. ESO made a great move by going B2P and taking on the more modern approach of all carrot and no stick. While I could not compare ESO in any way to those early games this is an exclusive QoL feature and that exclusivity will not benefit ESO+ members or members. Sell it, please.
Not even gonna read past the first few sentences.
You underestimate how much money GOOD developers cost.3 -
iNSiPiD1✭✭✭I agree with the OP. I don't think this is the type of feature that should be locked behind a subscription. It should have the ability to be unlocked for 5-10k crowns and that's it.
These types of features in games are why I am having a hard time investing in games like ESO on a more consistent basis. It's why I keep going back to Project 99. Simple is better. Find better ways to get money from your player base, instead of monetizing a part of the game that you guys created to be a problem (horrible inventory management system).ArvenAldmeri wrote: »I love non-subs complaining about not getting something that subs do. You dont support the game, we do, sub or manage you inventory the better way.
I also think the ignorance in the above quote needs to be addressed. Everyone playing this game has purchased it at some cost. Furthermore, due to the existence of the Crown Store, it is more than possible that a regular non-subbed player can purchase more coins per month, and contribute more money per month than a sub player.
In other words, just because you sub it doesn't make you superior to all the other players.Edited by iNSiPiD1 on April 25, 2016 5:31PM4 -
Callous2208✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'm in agreement with everyone in this rediculously long thread. Craft bags are gonna be frickin sweet, can't wait. Good job ZOS, you'll have my continued sub. Gonna have sooo many empty bank and inventory spaces when DB drops. Ah, great times all around friends.4 -
Buffler✭✭✭✭✭
✭I agree with the OP. I don't think this is the type of feature that should be locked behind a subscription. It should have the ability to be unlocked for 5-10k crowns and that's it.
These types of features in games are why I am having a hard time investing in games like ESO on a more consistent basis. It's why I keep going back to Project 99. Simple is better. Find better ways to get money from your player base, instead of monetizing a part of the game that you guys created to be a problem (horrible inventory management system).ArvenAldmeri wrote: »I love non-subs complaining about not getting something that subs do. You dont support the game, we do, sub or manage you inventory the better way.
I also think the ignorance in the above quote needs to be addressed. Everyone playing this game has purchased it at some cost. Furthermore, due to the existence of the Crown Store, it is more than possible that a regular non-subbed player can purchase more coins per month, and contribute more money per month than a sub player.
In other words, just because you sub it doesn't make you superior to all the other players.
I would say the opposite. Every subbed player i speak with also buy crowns every month anyway4 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I agree with the OP. I don't think this is the type of feature that should be locked behind a subscription. It should have the ability to be unlocked for 5-10k crowns and that's it.
These types of features in games are why I am having a hard time investing in games like ESO on a more consistent basis. It's why I keep going back to Project 99. Simple is better. Find better ways to get money from your player base, instead of monetizing a part of the game that you guys created to be a problem (horrible inventory management system).ArvenAldmeri wrote: »I love non-subs complaining about not getting something that subs do. You dont support the game, we do, sub or manage you inventory the better way.
I also think the ignorance in the above quote needs to be addressed. Everyone playing this game has purchased it at some cost. Furthermore, due to the existence of the Crown Store, it is more than possible that a regular non-subbed player can purchase more coins per month, and contribute more money per month than a sub player.
In other words, just because you sub it doesn't make you superior to all the other players.
I dont know about like morally superior but it does make you superior in the game. It gives you bonuses non subs dont get like 10% xp etc. Free access to all DLC. Im not saying I am somehow a better human than you tho hehe. Just saying being a sub does give you benefits you wouldnt otherwise get with the base game purchase.3 -
FLuFFyxMuFFiN✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I agree with the OP. I don't think this is the type of feature that should be locked behind a subscription. It should have the ability to be unlocked for 5-10k crowns and that's it.
These types of features in games are why I am having a hard time investing in games like ESO on a more consistent basis. It's why I keep going back to Project 99. Simple is better. Find better ways to get money from your player base, instead of monetizing a part of the game that you guys created to be a problem (horrible inventory management system).ArvenAldmeri wrote: »I love non-subs complaining about not getting something that subs do. You dont support the game, we do, sub or manage you inventory the better way.
I also think the ignorance in the above quote needs to be addressed. Everyone playing this game has purchased it at some cost. Furthermore, due to the existence of the Crown Store, it is more than possible that a regular non-subbed player can purchase more coins per month, and contribute more money per month than a sub player.
In other words, just because you sub it doesn't make you superior to all the other players.
I will fix the quote for Arven. Non-subs generally don't support the game as much as subs. I say generally because I am sure there are a few non-subs who spend a ton of money on crowns. A sub pays $200 a year to keep all the DLC while a non-sub only has to pay roughly half of that. That is an extra $100 a year from the subs. Subs also buy crowns like non-subs. So for the most part subs pay more per year than non-subs.5 -
GrumpStump✭✭✭I pay for the sub, I buy the DLC, and I buy crowns. I always try to support the game I'm playing. I want all the game has to offer. I'm sure there are more people that do the same thing.
GrumpStumpESO+ Subbed until December 20198
This discussion has been closed.