It's mostly PR crap lol. Don't read too much into what they said,it's meant to make them look good In front of the crowd.

Who's a "superfan?"

Dyride wrote: »

Who's a "superfan?"

I am!

Edit: And so its all the people who buy ESO T-shirts and merchandise i'm guessing.

srfrogg23 wrote: »

I would think the hardest part of "taking inspiration from the community" is figuring out "which" inspiration to take.

There's a ton of opinions floating around the forums and a lot of them are contradictory to each other. I'm sure they've cherry picked a few ideas here and there off the forums, but I doubt they're making big dollar investments based on what is said on the forums without at least looking to see what works and doesn't in other games.

That's why I linked to a thread about what players want that works in other games. Sure, have ZOS make it fit their vision for Elder Scrolls and this MMO, but the basic concepts are out there. I don't expect them to try to satisfy everyone, but they tossed out those claims at PAX after interacting less and less with the players since launch, so, it seems fair to ask for an example of what they mean. The seem to know they've dropped the ball somewhat in this area. If they are serious, any reply with some kind of indication of how they see such increased interaction would be very welcome by many players, so, we'll see.

I wonder who Heather Powers is, what she is in charge of and why Rich Lambert had to take her order when it comes to new content information. Having been following the game and forum forum since beta but never heard of this name.

b92303008rwb17_ESO wrote: »

I wonder who Heather Powers is, what she is in charge of and why Rich Lambert had to take her order when it comes to new content information. Having been following the game and forum forum since beta but never heard of this name.

The first rule of Heather's job is that you don't talk about Heather's job.

Khajiit is not sure if it is a good or bad thing that ESO now has its own Marketing Director. Yes maybe they do need the PR co-ordination but also this one does not like to think that someone is telling a dev what they may or may not say.

But then it has always happened at Bethsoft for the other games. Maybe it is a good sign that they think ESO is now big enough to need someone for this.

Yours with conflicted paws
Santie Claws

@Dyride I have an Ebonheart Pact hoodie...so I guess me?

lordrichter wrote: »

HOWEVER... It would be nice if they could do a better job of communicating that vision and direction to us. They really need to start doing a better job selling their game direction and why they are doing what they do.

Yeah, then the arm-chair developers could alter their idea or get inspiration for new ideas to match that vision, though some dissident thinking to shake things up would still be worth posting, too.

wildbear247 wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

From the PAXEast 2016 transcript:
Lawrence Schick: But we also listen particularly hard to our own community because they are the ones who are closest to our heart so we do take from everywhere but you guys come first.

I'm glad ZOS does make some effort to listen and respond to their player base (e.g. these forums, ESO Live, meetings with guild leaders, events like PAX East, etc.). However I think there is definitely room for improvement in this area to help ESO achieve optimal growth. 5 measures that could help are:
1) Rigorous data collection to identify content players prefer (PvE or PvP), and what's important to have in that content.
2) Incentives to motivate ALL players to provide this data.
3) Centralized location for players to submit requests on changes to the game (new content, fixes).
4) Prioritization system that allows players to rank the importance of requests. Highest priority requests should be continually tracked, regardless of the date initially submitted.
5) Transparency so that key data is viewable to the players, including ZOS feedback about if and when requests could be implemented.

Whilst there is merit in the process of getting feedback from all players I fear that if the most popular feedback from all players is not what is popular on this forum there will be a mass throwing of toys out of prams because "they don't know what they're talking about". It's one of those instances where you have to be careful of what you wish for.

srfrogg23 wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

I would think the hardest part of "taking inspiration from the community" is figuring out "which" inspiration to take.

There's a ton of opinions floating around the forums and a lot of them are contradictory to each other. I'm sure they've cherry picked a few ideas here and there off the forums, but I doubt they're making big dollar investments based on what is said on the forums without at least looking to see what works and doesn't in other games.

That's why I linked to a thread about what players want that works in other games. Sure, have ZOS make it fit their vision for Elder Scrolls and this MMO, but the basic concepts are out there. I don't expect them to try to satisfy everyone, but they tossed out those claims at PAX after interacting less and less with the players since launch, so, it seems fair to ask for an example of what they mean. The seem to know they've dropped the ball somewhat in this area. If they are serious, any reply with some kind of indication of how they see such increased interaction would be very welcome by many players, so, we'll see.

I'm sure they're listening on some level. A lot of the changes I've seen (even with the DB) have been a direct or indirect response to either requests or criticism that the game had faced in the past.

I think a lot of people on the forums are accusing ZoS of "not listening" because ZoS hasn't implemented the ideas of those individuals.

As far as ZoS' verbal response to player feedback on the forums goes? There's only so many people at ZoS, and I'm sure they try to respond when they can, but how many times can they be expected to answer the same questions on however many threads there are? I'd imagine it would be doubly difficult to stay interested in engaging with the players when it's almost guaranteed that no matter what you say, someone is going to get nasty or beligerint or just plain obnoxiously pessimistic about it. I probably would have stopped talking to the forums a long time ago if I had all the crap that people on the internet say coming at me whenever I open my mouth, too.

Few expect the devs to be wowed by their armchair ideas, and only the immature think they are owed personal responses to every question and concern they pose on the forums. That's not the point. It's the degree of interaction and how devs do/don't respond that gets the most criticism.

When the game launched, there were several ongoing features to promote interaction (Town Crier, Tamriel Chronicle, Developer Question of the Week, Battlemaster's Corner). One by one they ended. ESO Live has become less interactive for a while now and is done less regularly. The Road Ahead went from monthly to "whenever something big is dropping" to a year-in-review. When Rich Lambert took the director position, he started popping on and offering a /lurk here or there, but that ended quickly. Before and after launch senior leads would recorded videos while playing content to discuss new features or have a live stream of some content that they would run with players. Not any more. At launch we saw Game Masters in the actual game solving problems and being friendly to players. They were the guardians of peace and justice in Tamriel. Now the GMs are all but extinct. There are other examples but they escape me at the moment.

Now interaction is telling players "we're listening, trust us, no ETA". Sometimes there is a pleasant surprise and a dev will pop on with something funny and insightful, but the new business model seems to make that less likely. And sure, it's better to have them working than posting a lot on the forums or visiting more player streams/broadcasts, but other games seem to manage it and honestly even something short once every 7-10 days from top devs or key devs on upcoming content would be a huge improvement.

And ZOS seems to know there is an issue, because over a year ago they acknowledged it and indicated they wanted to do better. They now have a (new) Marketing Director. And they took the time in two Q&A responses at this year's PAXEast to specifically give a shout out to valuing feedback from and interaction with the players.

As for people on the internet being nasty, they have said they find some of the whining and moaning either funny or understandable, depending on the particular case, and facing the court of public opinion is part of making a product like ESO and dealing with the customers. Refusing to engage, or engaging less, because of the tantrum throwers and single-issue whiners is a bad business decision. The more mature players will be more positive and engaged with more interaction from the devs, and less engaged with less interaction. The latter means an even higher percentage of angry, bitter people left to make a more toxic environment.

There have been many posts clarifying what increased and more productive interaction means and how to try to get there, but those get ignored as boring (get really bored here and over here for example but definitely not here), and the issue becomes reduced to either "ZOS sucks (at PR, at caring about players, etc)" or "Players whine too much/are too entitled", depending on which side of the issue a forum member wants to take a swing at. That doesn't change the fact that ZOS can do a whole lot better.

Have the CMs put out new rules for the forums for disruptive/disrespectful behavior but also promote the heck out of positive examples of discussions and feedback on the forums (especially respectful constructive criticism of ZOS/ESO). Listen to whatever the new Marketing Director is saying about getting more engaged. Admit when mistakes are made but don't apologize for the creative vision of the game. None of these require ZOS to cave to everything players want, but they would go a long way toward an image of a company that respects and values players and wants to engage with their community in the common goal of making ESO as great as it can be.

tinythinker wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

I would think the hardest part of "taking inspiration from the community" is figuring out "which" inspiration to take.

There's a ton of opinions floating around the forums and a lot of them are contradictory to each other. I'm sure they've cherry picked a few ideas here and there off the forums, but I doubt they're making big dollar investments based on what is said on the forums without at least looking to see what works and doesn't in other games.

That's why I linked to a thread about what players want that works in other games. Sure, have ZOS make it fit their vision for Elder Scrolls and this MMO, but the basic concepts are out there. I don't expect them to try to satisfy everyone, but they tossed out those claims at PAX after interacting less and less with the players since launch, so, it seems fair to ask for an example of what they mean. The seem to know they've dropped the ball somewhat in this area. If they are serious, any reply with some kind of indication of how they see such increased interaction would be very welcome by many players, so, we'll see.

I'm sure they're listening on some level. A lot of the changes I've seen (even with the DB) have been a direct or indirect response to either requests or criticism that the game had faced in the past.

I think a lot of people on the forums are accusing ZoS of "not listening" because ZoS hasn't implemented the ideas of those individuals.

As far as ZoS' verbal response to player feedback on the forums goes? There's only so many people at ZoS, and I'm sure they try to respond when they can, but how many times can they be expected to answer the same questions on however many threads there are? I'd imagine it would be doubly difficult to stay interested in engaging with the players when it's almost guaranteed that no matter what you say, someone is going to get nasty or beligerint or just plain obnoxiously pessimistic about it. I probably would have stopped talking to the forums a long time ago if I had all the crap that people on the internet say coming at me whenever I open my mouth, too.

Few expect the devs to be wowed by their armchair ideas, and only the immature think they are owed personal responses to every question and concern they pose on the forums. That's not the point. It's the degree of interaction and how devs do/don't respond that gets the most criticism.

When the game launched, there were several ongoing features to promote interaction (Town Crier, Tamriel Chronicle, Developer Question of the Week, Battlemaster's Corner). One by one they ended. ESO Live has become less interactive for a while now and is done less regularly. The Road Ahead went from monthly to "whenever something big is dropping" to a year-in-review. When Rich Lamber took the director position, he started popping on and offering a /lurk here or there, but that ended quickly. Before and after launch senior leads would recorded videos while playing content to discuss new features or have a live stream of some content that they would run with players. Not any more. At launch we saw Game Masters in the actual game solving problems and being friendly to players. They were the guardians of peace and justice in Tamriel. Now the GMs are all but extinct. There are other examples but they escape me at the moment.

Now interaction is telling players "we're listening, trust us, no ETA". Sometimes there is a pleasant surprise and a dev will pop on with something funny and insightful, but the new business model seems to make that less likely. And sure, it's better to have them working than posting a lot on the forums or visiting more player streams/broadcasts, but other games seem to manage it and honestly even something short once every 7-10 days from top devs or key devs on upcoming content would be a huge improvement.

And ZOS seems to know there is an issue, because over a year ago they acknowledged it and indicated they wanted to do better. They now have a (new) Marketing Director. And they took the time in two Q&A responses at this year's PAXEast to specifically give a shout out to valuing feedback from and interaction with the players.

As for people on the internet being nasty, they have said they find some of the whining and moaning either funny or understandable, depending on the particular case, and facing the court of public opinion is part of making a product like ESO and dealing with the customers. Refusing to engage, or engaging less, because of the tantrum throwers and single-issue whiners is a bad business decision. The more mature players will be more positive and engaged with more interaction from the devs, and less engaged with less interaction. The latter means an even higher percentage of angry, bitter people left to make a more toxic environment.

There have been many posts clarifying what increased and more productive interaction means and how to try to get there, but those get ignored as boring (get really bored here and over here for example but definitely not here), and the issue becomes reduced to either "ZOS sucks (at PR, at caring about players, etc)" or "Players whine too much/are too entitled", depending on which side of the issue a forum member wants to take a swing at. That doesn't change the fact that ZOS can do a whole lot better.

Have the CMs put out new rules for the forums for disruptive/disrespectful behavior but also promote the heck out of positive examples of discussions and feedback on the forums (especially respectful constructive criticism of ZOS/ESO). Listen to whatever the new Marketing Director is saying about getting more engaged. Admit when mistakes are made but don't apologize for the creative vision of the game. None of these require ZOS to cave to everything players want, but they would go a long way toward an image of a company that respects and values players and wants to engage with their community in the common goal of making ESO as great as it can be.

Ok.