DB Stam changes Anticipation thread.

Refuse2GrowUp · April 2016

susmitds wrote: »

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

The biggest issue I see between magicka and stamina builds is that magicka built right is now nearly unlimited resources and stamina is never even close to unlimited resources.

That is far from true. Mag Sorc has horrible sustain, as does Mag DK. Templars who are trying to Dark Flair and RD a lot will struggle with resources. Mag NB has phenomenal sustain thanks to cheap spamables, Syphoning Attacks, and a class passive that gives 15% regen (but this is why many argue NBs are either OP or too well balanced {depending on your point of view}).

The only way most magicka builds will get good sustain is if they set-up a PvP specific build for it...but the same is true of stamina builds.

You probably didn't see Deltia's builds. And btw I not talking about PvP. Everybody has sustain issues in PvP (Except Magicka NB)

Lol, no, I didn't see Deltia's builds. Only noobs run Deltia's builds.

I am quite competent in both PvP and PvE, and suffer the same sustain issues with both my magicka and stamina toons. One thing I will say tho is that there are more ways for support to help magicka sustain in dungeons and raid groups...Orbs, Elemental Drain, and Syphon Spirit. Stam has Repentance and Shards. Repentance is amazing but is reliant upon adds. It would be nice for healers/support to have one additional tool to help stamina toons sustain. Hell, maybe give Syphon Spirit a return for both magicka and stamina upon damage (make it magicka and poison damage maybe?).

Jaronking · April 2016

I just want all of the skills that cost stamina but deal magica damage to actually deal physical or poison damage,which isn't very fair to stay builds when magica can double dip most of their abilities with Expert and Them.

Strider_Roshin · April 2016

iTzStevey wrote: »

Keep the dodge roll penalty where it is. No repeats of perma roll 1.6 thanks.

Reducing the cool down time to 2 seconds would be more than appropriate. It will still prevent people from dodge rolling from a fight, but it will allow dodge rolling to still be an applicable means of defense. Trust me, if they gave damage shields the dodge roll treatment, magicka sorcs would have their defenses crippled. Which is what happened to stamina builds. Now we have to use moves like shuffle and double take, and rely on rng rather than skill.

Refuse2GrowUp · April 2016

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Which is what happened to stamina builds. Now we have to use moves like shuffle and double take, and rely on rng rather than skill.

A dodge roll every two seconds, or every one second with penalty, isn't skill as a dodge rolls cause a 100% miss rate for most skills. Between Shuffle and dodge roll, there is more than enough surviveability.

Anti_Virus · April 2016

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

The biggest issue I see between magicka and stamina builds is that magicka built right is now nearly unlimited resources and stamina is never even close to unlimited resources.

That is far from true. Mag Sorc has horrible sustain, as does Mag DK. Templars who are trying to Dark Flair and RD a lot will struggle with resources. Mag NB has phenomenal sustain thanks to cheap spamables, Syphoning Attacks, and a class passive that gives 15% regen (but this is why many argue NBs are either OP or too well balanced {depending on your point of view}).

The only way most magicka builds will get good sustain is if they set-up a PvP specific build for it...but the same is true of stamina builds.

No, you're not looking at it from a magic and stam poiny of view. Magic builds main resource is magicka which is only used for magic spells

Stamina builds share a resource pool with dodge roll, CC break, etc. Hence why you dont see stam builds going for 40K max stamina. Since stam recovery is very important (2.4k stam recovery isnt enough to sustain).

Refuse2GrowUp · April 2016

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

The biggest issue I see between magicka and stamina builds is that magicka built right is now nearly unlimited resources and stamina is never even close to unlimited resources.

That is far from true. Mag Sorc has horrible sustain, as does Mag DK. Templars who are trying to Dark Flair and RD a lot will struggle with resources. Mag NB has phenomenal sustain thanks to cheap spamables, Syphoning Attacks, and a class passive that gives 15% regen (but this is why many argue NBs are either OP or too well balanced {depending on your point of view}).

The only way most magicka builds will get good sustain is if they set-up a PvP specific build for it...but the same is true of stamina builds.

No, you're not looking at it from a magic and stam poiny of view. Magic builds main resource is magicka which is only used for magic spells

Stamina builds share a resource pool with dodge roll, CC break, etc. Hence why you dont see stam builds going for 40K max stamina. Since stam recovery is very important (2.4k stam recovery isnt enough to sustain).

Yes, but in most PvE you are rarely dodge rolling or CC breaking. You are not worried about self heals. You are only concerned with putting out DPS -- All assuming you are with a decent group.

Again, I play both, in both PvE and PvP. Try playing a magicka DK, a magicka Sorc, or a magicka Templar. All will struggle 50 seconds into a fight if going full out DPS. The exact same is true for my stam toons. The only difference is that support toons are given more tools to help magicka toons sustain. It would be nice for one more tool to help stamina sustain.

Simply, any DPS toon, except maybe mag NB, is going to struggle for resources if you go all out DPS for any short duration of time. You will either need to get external support to sustain or you will need to sacrifice DPS in your build to have the sustain (as we often see in PvP builds).

DRXHarbinger · April 2016

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

All sprinting need is the war mount passive removed and make it do sprinting doesn't use up stamina out of combat. So by the time I arrive at a fight I can at least attack someone rather than hide and wait a min.

I actually like this idea. It would benefit both stamina and magicka toons alike and be beneficial to all. I am not sure who the right ZOS rep to tag on this idea would be, but I feel it tag worthy. Damned good idea. Edit: Think this would be @Wrobel

Tho, it might be worth making it so that it doesn't kick in for say 3-5 seconds after leaving combat to ensure it does not offer an unfair advantage to NBs who can cloak away from a fight or Sorcs who can bolt escape. We don't want either cloaking or b.escaping straight into a sprint thus making them uncatchable. Help people get into a fight with resources in tact, but not flee a fight without fear of resource drain.

If they can do it with mounting etc then it's easy to implement. It just makes perfect sense to me. Oblivion had the athletics perk that gave unlimited sprint iirc

Although on second thought, isn't that what mounts are for...to get you from point A to point B quickly without wasting your toon's stam?

Yes but you can't mount in a dungeon, after combat for ages in Cyro, the dead sewers, farm would be better and not have to mount up and off every 10s. Just makes more sense. Plus from a crown store perspective this perk makes training mounts completely pointless, more sales of lessons, so @ZOS_GinaBruno please can this cp perk be changed please, no one cares for mount stamina anymore and sprinting is in dire need of a revamp, hey even rework well fitted possibly, add 3% speed to each piece and I'll carry a set on me 24/7 to make the chores easier.

Anti_Virus · April 2016

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

The biggest issue I see between magicka and stamina builds is that magicka built right is now nearly unlimited resources and stamina is never even close to unlimited resources.

That is far from true. Mag Sorc has horrible sustain, as does Mag DK. Templars who are trying to Dark Flair and RD a lot will struggle with resources. Mag NB has phenomenal sustain thanks to cheap spamables, Syphoning Attacks, and a class passive that gives 15% regen (but this is why many argue NBs are either OP or too well balanced {depending on your point of view}).

The only way most magicka builds will get good sustain is if they set-up a PvP specific build for it...but the same is true of stamina builds.

No, you're not looking at it from a magic and stam poiny of view. Magic builds main resource is magicka which is only used for magic spells

Stamina builds share a resource pool with dodge roll, CC break, etc. Hence why you dont see stam builds going for 40K max stamina. Since stam recovery is very important (2.4k stam recovery isnt enough to sustain).

Yes, but in most PvE you are rarely dodge rolling or CC breaking. You are not worried about self heals. You are only concerned with putting out DPS -- All assuming you are with a decent group.

Again, I play both, in both PvE and PvP. Try playing a magicka DK, a magicka Sorc, or a magicka Templar. All will struggle 50 seconds into a fight if going full out DPS. The exact same is true for my stam toons. The only difference is that support toons are given more tools to help magicka toons sustain. It would be nice for one more tool to help stamina sustain.

Simply, any DPS toon, except maybe mag NB, is going to struggle for resources if you go all out DPS for any short duration of time. You will either need to get external support to sustain or you will need to sacrifice DPS in your build to have the sustain (as we often see in PvP builds).

In most pve if you are talking about dungeons then yes you are rolling, and cc breaking, magic builds can put wards on themselves and be fine allowing them to CC break every 8 seconds when needed.

Idk how you struggle with magic toons when you can heavy attack with resto staff and get tons of magic back you shouldnt run into sustain issues on a magic build unless you run 2 piece Kena.

Stam builds don't have the luxury of sustaining stam, since we only have 2 defensive moves, roll dodge (heavily nerfed) and dodge chance(rng). And I also have to use that same resource pool for dmg which burns stamina.

Lets not forget that magic builds can play at range with out the penalty (dual wield) while stam builds are pigeon holed in melee builds.

Strider_Roshin · April 2016

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Which is what happened to stamina builds. Now we have to use moves like shuffle and double take, and rely on rng rather than skill.

A dodge roll every two seconds, or every one second with penalty, isn't skill as a dodge rolls cause a 100% miss rate for most skills. Between Shuffle and dodge roll, there is more than enough surviveability.

Not really, it's too inconsistent. Sometimes it offers great survivability, most times it offers none. Damage shields mitigate all damage just like dodge rolling; except you can spam shields, you can't spam damage shields, and damage shields can last up to 20 seconds whereas you have to time your dodge rolls. The reduced cool down is more than fair. As a matter of fact they should remove the cool down entirely if they want it to be fair; otherwise damage shields should suffer a more harsh cool down than dodge rolling since they can potentially mitigate multiple attacks.

ArchAngeI-X · April 2016

Make dual wield relevant in PvP again. Even if that means reverting the steel tornado nerf.

STEVIL · April 2016

Regardless, my first extra slot char will be a khajit stan sorc.

Lokey0024 · April 2016

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Physical damage morph of death stroke, have relentless focus cause poison or disease damage, give the bow a passive that increases weapon damage, and improve resource management by reducing the dodge roll penalty and adjusting the stam regen absence while blocking.

This Would be The single most overpowered move that could happen. Mine already hits for7-9k on impened pvpers. Cant wait ;-)

Strider_Roshin · April 2016

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Physical damage morph of death stroke, have relentless focus cause poison or disease damage, give the bow a passive that increases weapon damage, and improve resource management by reducing the dodge roll penalty and adjusting the stam regen absence while blocking.

This Would be The single most overpowered move that could happen. Mine already hits for7-9k on impened pvpers. Cant wait ;-)

So if it matches the strength of magicka builds it's considered OP? Yeah okay.

Eirikir · April 2016

In order...

1. Juggernaut and Rapid Mending fused into one trait, allowing for a new trait. No idea what, so surprise me with something fun.

2. All stam-morphs be made physical or poison damage.... I'm looking at you Inner Beast... a physical damage in strike and synergy would be amazing.

3. Maybe a resource recovery in the FG passives.

SanTii.92 · April 2016

sAnn92 wrote: »

Killer's Blade, Relentless Focus procc, Soul Harvest and Flawless Dawnbreaker dealing poison / disease / physical dmge

It would make me very happy a classic extra dmge from the back, or Any mechanic that justifies the higher amount of risk it involves fighting in melee range compared to magicka classes, but I hardly doubt so.

Oh, and stamina dks nerf you are way above anyone else right now.

Flanking Set

Trenia · April 2016

Every class got a Stam morph change but sorc. I guess I'll wait till 2017 to be viable.

Anti_Virus · April 2016

I so happy with the changez so far... Heavy armor buffs, morphs that scale with mighty, and relentless focus now deals poison/disease dmg.

Hopefully relentless focus can be a good range dps skill....