The inevitable magicka vs stamina debate that is bound to ensue...here we go~

Front row seat

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Physical damage morph of death stroke, have relentless focus cause poison or disease damage, give the bow a passive that increases weapon damage, and improve resource management by reducing the dodge roll penalty and adjusting the stam regen absence while blocking.

The roll dodge penalty definitely needs to be reworked since this game seems to be elder roots online.

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

The inevitable magicka vs stamina debate that is bound to ensue...here we go~

Front row seat

Well I don't want there to be a debate but you can't deny the massive gap between stam builds atm.

americansteel wrote: »

i feel 2346 stam recov is not enough, i also feel in cyrodiil my recovery isnt working righ. very odd at times.

That's because it isn't enough sadly due to the harsh penalties that stam builds receive.

Killer's Blade, Relentless Focus procc, Soul Harvest and Flawless Dawnbreaker dealing poison / disease / physical dmge

It would make me very happy a classic extra dmge from the back, or Any mechanic that justifies the higher amount of risk it involves fighting in melee range compared to magicka classes, but I hardly doubt so.

Oh, and stamina dks nerf you are way above anyone else right now.

[Removed original quote]

EDIT: I just realized that I accidentally clicked the wrong post to quote (distractions of being a Dad lol). This is what I meant to quote...

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

The inevitable magicka vs stamina debate that is bound to ensue...here we go~

Front row seat

Well I don't want there to be a debate but you can't deny the massive gap between stam builds atm.

Actually I can. Ya see...I play both stamina and magicka toons, and I am both an avid PvP and PvEer. I am quite unbiased when I look at things. Most of the time, players ask for nerfs or buffs based upon what is best for their particular build or playstyle, with little regard for what is genuinely best for the game. In short, the vast majority of the calls for nerfs/buffs are selfish.

Stamina is not in a bad place; not even a little. Now, that is not to say that some magicka isn't a bit OP (i.e. shield stacking in PvP), but that is a different discussion altogether. Stamina is still extremely powerful, and my ttk (time to kill) is still quicker on my stam NB than any other toon (and I play them all, both a magicka and stamina of each).

Simply, the devs need to give stamina its due diligence. The biggest problem with stamina in general is that often you feel like you are playing a weapon line rather than a class -- this is most relevant to stam Sorcs and stam DKs; stamplars to an extent; stam NBs are still in a really good place. The devs need to provide some passives and morphs that make it so that a stam Sorc or stam DK (for example) still feel as tho you are playing a Sorc or DK. Simply, players want to feel as tho they are a Dragon Knight and not a 2h. Thing is, the devs really need a three morph system instead of the current two morphs. Take for example the DK's whip, stam players want a morph but both the current ones are valuable to magicka users as one morph is for pvP and the other PvE. it would be unfair to magicka players to lose a morph. The answer is for devs to offer a third option which would be the stam morph. And this would be the case for most, if not all, the skills...two morphs of whatever its primary is and a third morph for alternative roles. This would completely open up builds and allow players to be magicka or stamina and feel as tho they are still playing a class, with class skills. Of note tho is that the weapon skill lines shouldn't be changed too much in the future, or if they are, another one should be added for magicka users so that they have some diversity as well...maybe a wand and shield, magicka 2h flame sword, or duel wield wands.

Furthermore, the other biggest thing handicapping stamina is that too many physical damage skills scale to magicka...especially ultimates. There's a whole list of skills that need to be rescaled to better scale with the Mighty passive. Not much I need to say here as everyone is quite familiar with this issue. The one thing I will say tho is that skills like the Fighters Guild ones do NOT need to scale to physical as they are already extremely powerful. If they are going to scale, they will probably need a dmg reduction; no one should be offended if that happens.

Note that I really like the idea of a stamina poison DoT DK. I think it is a step in the right direction both in terms of class skills and physical/psn dmg morphs. If the idea comes to fruition, I will absolutely be buying a new character slot to try it out.

Lastly, in reply to those who are whining about dodge rolling being too expensive. Well, invest CPs in tumbling. It is extremely easy for stam builds to dodge roll and shuffle to avoid almost all dmg, provided you are set up for it. I know some stam players, who are much better than I, who are damn near impossible to kill. It literally takes small zergs to kill them. Stam builds can complain about the cost of dodge roll about as much as a magicka toon complaining about only being able to do a single break free when they have 64 attribute points into magicka. You cannot run around with 6.5k weapon dmg and still be able to roll endlessly and break free everything.

Also, for those wanting a stam shield. We stam players already have an extremely powerful heal that is not tied to any class or weapon line, so any stam toon can use it. We also have shuffle, and the ability to roll dodge most dmg and break free multiple times if necessary. A dmg shield isn't needed and would be seriously imbalanced; especially considering some of the stam changes hinted at by the devs. If they give us a dmg shield, it would need to cost enough to make it detrimental to spam, and be a fairly weak dmg shield. And if shield stacking Sorcs are your counter reply to this point, then let me head you off by saying shield stacking should not be a thing in PvP.

iTzStevey wrote: »

Keep the dodge roll penalty where it is. No repeats of perma roll 1.6 thanks. Would be awesome if stamina was gained whilst sprinting, stam builds definitely need some help in the sustain field. Also another indirect buff to stam is needed, allow shields to be crit upon.(with the correct danage) at this point in time the game may aswell be called Elder Shields Online:Crit Limited >.> on the other hand however we will want to adjust the damage of crits themselves to be weaker (Maybe nerf precise strikes abit?) Also i think atam nb damage is abit much. Would also be interesting to see a stamina version of martial knowledge.

All sprinting need is the war mount passive removed and make it do sprinting doesn't use up stamina out of combat. So by the time I arrive at a fight I can at least attack someone rather than hide and wait a min.

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

All sprinting need is the war mount passive removed and make it do sprinting doesn't use up stamina out of combat. So by the time I arrive at a fight I can at least attack someone rather than hide and wait a min.

I actually like this idea. It would benefit both stamina and magicka toons alike and be beneficial to all. I am not sure who the right ZOS rep to tag on this idea would be, but I feel it tag worthy. Damned good idea. Edit: Think this would be @Wrobel

Tho, it might be worth making it so that it doesn't kick in for say 3-5 seconds after leaving combat to ensure it does not offer an unfair advantage to NBs who can cloak away from a fight or Sorcs who can bolt escape. We don't want either cloaking or b.escaping straight into a sprint thus making them uncatchable. Help people get into a fight with resources in tact, but not flee a fight without fear of resource drain.

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

All sprinting need is the war mount passive removed and make it do sprinting doesn't use up stamina out of combat. So by the time I arrive at a fight I can at least attack someone rather than hide and wait a min.

I actually like this idea. It would benefit both stamina and magicka toons alike and be beneficial to all. I am not sure who the right ZOS rep to tag on this idea would be, but I feel it tag worthy. Damned good idea. Edit: Think this would be @Wrobel

Tho, it might be worth making it so that it doesn't kick in for say 3-5 seconds after leaving combat to ensure it does not offer an unfair advantage to NBs who can cloak away from a fight or Sorcs who can bolt escape. We don't want either cloaking or b.escaping straight into a sprint thus making them uncatchable. Help people get into a fight with resources in tact, but not flee a fight without fear of resource drain.

If they can do it with mounting etc then it's easy to implement. It just makes perfect sense to me. Oblivion had the athletics perk that gave unlimited sprint iirc

Although on second thought, isn't that what mounts are for...to get you from point A to point B quickly without wasting your toon's stam?

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

The biggest issue I see between magicka and stamina builds is that magicka built right is now nearly unlimited resources and stamina is never even close to unlimited resources.

That is far from true. Mag Sorc has horrible sustain, as does Mag DK. Templars who are trying to Dark Flair and RD a lot will struggle with resources. Mag NB has phenomenal sustain thanks to cheap spamables, Syphoning Attacks, and a class passive that gives 15% regen (but this is why many argue NBs are either OP or too well balanced {depending on your point of view}).

The only way most magicka builds will get good sustain is if they set-up a PvP specific build for it...but the same is true of stamina builds.

"Added unarmed skill tree"

I just wanna punch things ZOS!

Need morph of ultimate dealing poison/physical damage.