Alternatives to nerfing vWGT, vICP and vCOA

Blackleopardex · April 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

- People who refuse to "L2P" are perfectly legit too. It's their right. Playing is for fun, some find fun in effort, difficulty, stress and progress, others find their fun in a more relaxed and forgiving context. They are not "lesser players". I don't place any "value" into the notion of effort put into a video game. If you like making efforts, fine, but those who don't like it do not deserve less. There's no "merit", it's not a job, not a sport, not a prowess of any kind, it's a game.

First of all no it's not a sport but it is a game, just like you said! And what is a game? Well even sports are games and many games, including a video game like ESO is highly based on competition. You can see it everywhere in achievements, pve scoreboards, pvp scoreboards, valued gear and even in trading. Like it or not. So I think yes if you put less effort into something you do not deserve the same rewards and achievements as the guys that do(learn, progress and work as the others). What on earth is the point then? Next Olympic games, lets give everyone gold medals! Where did the game go? And that's the thing, if people really do not want do put effort into a game, fine, do normal versions of the dungeons, that's what they are for. Because that is not stressful or challenging. Don't nerf it, beat it.

dsalter · April 2016

the problem is difficult content atm is centred around the min/max damage builds, this in itself causes the dungeons to be harder in themselves to non-min/maxers, many boss mechanics can be skipped completely by throwing 3 damagers and a healer at it. you can thank soft cap removal for this.

Destruent · April 2016

dsalter wrote: »

the problem is difficult content atm is centred around the min/max damage builds, this in itself causes the dungeons to be harder in themselves to non-min/maxers, many boss mechanics can be skipped completely by throwing 3 damagers and a healer at it. you can thank soft cap removal for this.

You don't need minmaxed builds to finish those dungeons. Just learn the game/dungeonmechanics and have usefull gear for your role. Everyone had to do all the mechanics in the beginning when it was actually hard. The only DPS-Check are the fleshattronachs in vICP, everything else is about mechanics.

Skyy · April 2016

I have not yet finished vWGT or vICP and my first time in vCoA was a disaster, but I like having something to work up to. Most of the pledges don't even need a 4 man group to do easily. When vCoA kicked my butt I went and learned how to do my role better and the next time it was a cake walk. My attempt at vWGT wasn't successful and it exposed more things I needed to do better and I have since been working on those improvements. If nobody was able to finish these pledges then I would agree they needed nerfs. However, since they are clearly beatable, people just need to improve themselves instead of nerfing the content.

lathbury · April 2016

Skyy wrote: »

I have not yet finished vWGT or vICP and my first time in vCoA was a disaster, but I like having something to work up to. Most of the pledges don't even need a 4 man group to do easily. When vCoA kicked my butt I went and learned how to do my role better and the next time it was a cake walk. My attempt at vWGT wasn't successful and it exposed more things I needed to do better and I have since been working on those improvements. If nobody was able to finish these pledges then I would agree they needed nerfs. However, since they are clearly beatable, people just need to improve themselves instead of nerfing the content.

this is it in a nut shell

Totalitarian · April 2016

I could probably beat vICP if I were to go on YouTube and find the boss mechanics for the massive Flesh Atronach onwards. Normal runs would be good practice too.

I used to be unable to beat vCOA, but then I eventually learned the mechanics, and was then competent enough to survive the Ash Titan and Valkyn Skoria.

anitajoneb17_ESO · April 2016

Blackleopardex wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

- People who refuse to "L2P" are perfectly legit too. It's their right. Playing is for fun, some find fun in effort, difficulty, stress and progress, others find their fun in a more relaxed and forgiving context. They are not "lesser players". I don't place any "value" into the notion of effort put into a video game. If you like making efforts, fine, but those who don't like it do not deserve less. There's no "merit", it's not a job, not a sport, not a prowess of any kind, it's a game.

a video game like ESO is highly based on competition. You can see it everywhere in achievements, pve scoreboards, pvp scoreboards, valued gear and even in trading. Like it or not. So I think yes if you put less effort into something you do not deserve the same rewards and achievements as the guys that do(learn, progress and work as the others). What on earth is the point then

I've highlighted the points which, imo, are the basis of our disagreement.

Games (like sports by the way) CAN be for competition, but do not HAVE TO be for competition. They can be for fun.

Obviously the Olympics are for competition but your town soccer club is not necessarily into competition. Many games and sports don't even involve "winning" or rankings.

What's the point ? FUN. People are different, some like competition and don't even see fun outside competition, other see it just the opposite way, BUT both are perfectly legit. People who aren't into "effort", "work" and "progression" are just as legit as everyone else. In games, in sports, even in society.

But obviously the town soccer club has limited resources and must make choices when it comes to provide courses or training or organize event : junior, senior, casual, elite levels ? They must decide if they aim for the Olympics, or for the well being of the town people, or whatever inbetween.

In the case of ESO, it's ZOS' call to decide what category/categories of players they wish to target. And believe, they don't do that based on whatever forum rants, but on hard real numbers. It is obvious to me that they are orienting the game more and more towards the type of players who likes it easy, explores and role plays. That's a fact, that's legit, like it or not.

I don't even see what competitive players really find in ESO : there's absolutely nothing competitive in this game (at least PVE-wise) since the rules (abilities, scoring, instances, conditions, etc...) change all the time, officially or nerfed. Does "Boethiah's Scythe" mean anything anymore ? What is it to be Nr1 in the leaderboards when your scoring conditions are totally different from what they were 2 weeks ago and will be different again in 2 weeks ?
Running 100m under 10 seconds is the same as what if was 100 years ago and what it will be in 100 years. There's nothing like that in ESO.

Anyway back to topic and TL/DR :

- Non-competitive players are not lesser players
- You cannot "force" people to "put effort" into a game
- It's ZOS decision to make the game easier and it's perfectly legit for them to do so
- Obviously the direction of the game is more and more towards "easy", take it or leave it
- There's nothing really competitive in ESO anyway. Go play Dark Soul for real challenge or League of Legends for real competition ? (I don't know these games very well maybe they're not the proper examples, but you see what I mean).

Magdalina · April 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

- People who refuse to "L2P" are perfectly legit too. It's their right. Playing is for fun, some find fun in effort, difficulty, stress and progress, others find their fun in a more relaxed and forgiving context. They are not "lesser players". I don't place any "value" into the notion of effort put into a video game. If you like making efforts, fine, but those who don't like it do not deserve less. There's no "merit", it's not a job, not a sport, not a prowess of any kind, it's a game.

See thing is I agree with you. People who don't want to "L2P" also paid for the game and have a right to play it. Personally, I do think they're missing out on some fun, I mean I didn't "L2P" til much later in the game and when I did it was like discovering a whole new world of things to do...I think we'd all profit if people at least gave it a try, but that is just me and I understand that.

I'll say it again, if someone's just in here to fish or catch butterflies or find M'aiq or otherwise have fun in an absolutely non-challenging that is NOT wrong. That does NOT make them inferior to me and mean they have to be forced to play my way. These people deserve having something to do no less than I do and they shouldn't be forced into my gamestyle.

Thing is those people already have about 97% of the game. Every single zone except Craglorn. 5 zones of each alliance, starter zones, Coldharbour, Wrothgar(with exception of world bosses) and as far as I know Hew's Bane as well(and when DB releases probably whichever zone comes with it) already pose no challenge. Heck they can be pretty much done by closing your eyes and spamming 1 button while facing mobs.
Normal dungeons also don't pose any challenge. Even most vet dungeons pose 0 challenge and can be done by afk 1 button spam except maybe COA, WGT and ICP. And now they want to nerf even those.

The people who don't like challenge already have the absolute most of the game. The people who like challenge are also people and paying players though. Don't we deserve anything at all?

L2Pissue · April 2016

if you are from those 2% who think vICP is a walk in the park play it and any other dungeon you think is very easy without your CPs or with 100 CPs, problem solved.
the other 98% you dont care about wants to do it, you werent there to help/guide them and you wont be, so may ZOS nerf everything so plenty of players can L2P without elites

Destruent · April 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Anyway back to topic and TL/DR :

- Non-competitive players are not lesser players
- You cannot "force" people to "put effort" into a game
- It's ZOS decision to make the game easier and it's perfectly legit for them to do so
- Obviously the direction of the game is more and more towards "easy", take it or leave it
- There's nothing really competitive in ESO anyway. Go play Dark Soul for real challenge or League of Legends for real competition ? (I don't know these games very well maybe they're not the proper examples, but you see what I mean).

I could also say: Go, play the normal version if the vetversion is too hard for you. The thing is, as many others and i said before, everyone should have content catered to their playstyle...what's so wrong with it?

Magdalina · April 2016

L2Pissue wrote: »

if you are from those 2% who think vICP is a walk in the park play it and any other dungeon you think is very easy without your CPs or with 100 CPs, problem solved.
the other 98% you dont care about wants to do it, you werent there to help/guide them and you wont be, so may ZOS nerf everything so plenty of players can L2P without elites

But I am there. I am willing to guide any new player through any dungeon they have problems with. That's what this thread is about...I'd love to come up with constructive ways to help people who struggle with this content rather than dumb nerfs>.<

anitajoneb17_ESO · April 2016

Magdalina wrote: »

The people who don't like challenge already have the absolute most of the game. The people who like challenge are also people and paying players though. Don't we deserve anything at all?

I agree with very word you wrote.

I, too, have enjoyed learning, beating stuff I thought I'd never beat (like VDSA back in the days, then Sanctum, etc. etc. ) and of course all levels deserve to have their share of the content. That's why I did not complain back then that the dungeons were "too hard" and did not ask them to be nerfed. I learned how to do them instead ;-) - admittedly with little to no fun since they are slightly too hard for my taste.

BUT when it comes to vICP and vWGT (and vCOA to a lesser extent) there's really a *huge* gap in player skills required, and I've been seeing this tearing entire guilds apart between those "who can" and those "who can't". This gap has obviously over time translated into hard numbers for ZOS and they're acting. I understand why they do so because I've witnessed the problem in all of my guilds, and I'm happy for the big group of players who will now be able to beat those dungeons.

In my understanding of things, if excellent players don't get enough/more content to chew on, it's probably a sign that there are fewer and fewer of them left... ZOS makes decisions based on real demographics.

Destruent · April 2016

Sry...but vICP and vWGT are a lot easier than sanctum/vCoA/vDSA back in 1.5. Maybe, as you said, players just get worse or there are less good palyers (bc game got too easy, less challenging). Would be much better to teach the bad ones than to nerf the challenges.

LadyNalcarya · April 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

The people who don't like challenge already have the absolute most of the game. The people who like challenge are also people and paying players though. Don't we deserve anything at all?

I agree with very word you wrote.

I, too, have enjoyed learning, beating stuff I thought I'd never beat (like VDSA back in the days, then Sanctum, etc. etc. ) and of course all levels deserve to have their share of the content. That's why I did not complain back then that the dungeons were "too hard" and did not ask them to be nerfed. I learned how to do them instead ;-) - admittedly with little to no fun since they are slightly too hard for my taste.

BUT when it comes to vICP and vWGT (and vCOA to a lesser extent) there's really a *huge* gap in player skills required, and I've been seeing this tearing entire guilds apart between those "who can" and those "who can't". This gap has obviously over time translated into hard numbers for ZOS and they're acting. I understand why they do so because I've witnessed the problem in all of my guilds, and I'm happy for the big group of players who will now be able to beat those dungeons.

In my understanding of things, if excellent players don't get enough/more content to chew on, it's probably a sign that there are fewer and fewer of them left... ZOS makes decisions based on real demographics.

The thing is, DSA is not scaled, and there's no "challenging" 4 man content left except those dungeons. Not even 1 dungeon left as is, not nerfed. Dont you think its a bit excessive? Especially when people who play for the stories and roleplay still have the normal version.
Like, if they wouldve announced another pack of dungeons, this would be more fair, so players could move on.

anitajoneb17_ESO · April 2016

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Like, if they wouldve announced another pack of dungeons, this would be more fair, so players could move on.

Wait, you'll (well, we'll) get a completely overhauled Sanctum Ophidia. Maybe that one will be fun ! Scaled and adjusted.
And even if we can beat Sanctum quite easily now due to doing it so often, it's still not an easy raid, never was.

Destruent · April 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Like, if they wouldve announced another pack of dungeons, this would be more fair, so players could move on.

Wait, you'll (well, we'll) get a completely overhauled Sanctum Ophidia. Maybe that one will be fun ! Scaled and adjusted.
And even if we can beat Sanctum quite easily now due to doing it so often, it's still not an easy raid, never was.

We are talking about 4 men content atm. The new vet-SO will be great, atleast i hope so. This does not change the fact, that there won't be any challenging 4-player content ingame for those who can actually play their characters.

anitajoneb17_ESO · April 2016

Destruent wrote: »

Sry...but vICP and vWGT are a lot easier than sanctum/vCoA/vDSA back in 1.5. Maybe, as you said, players just get worse or there are less good palyers (bc game got too easy, less challenging). Would be much better to teach the bad ones than to nerf the challenges.

Logically, yes, but human fact is, not everyone wants to *learn* since they're here for fun, and for some of us, learning does not equal fun (while for some of us it does).

Besides, I'm not sure that ZOS actually *wants* us to learn. If they truly wanted that, they'd give us training dummies and more transparent and accurate info about abilities - instead of theorycrafters having to blindly reverse engineer everything.

Destruent · April 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Sry...but vICP and vWGT are a lot easier than sanctum/vCoA/vDSA back in 1.5. Maybe, as you said, players just get worse or there are less good palyers (bc game got too easy, less challenging). Would be much better to teach the bad ones than to nerf the challenges.

Logically, yes, but human fact is, not everyone wants to *learn* since they're here for fun, and for some of us, learning does not equal fun (while for some of us it does).

Besides, I'm not sure that ZOS actually *wants* us to learn. If they truly wanted that, they'd give us training dummies and more transparent and accurate info about abilities - instead of theorycrafters having to blindly reverse engineer everything.

i have to agree with this, sadly.
I just don't understand why those who refuse to learn, have to be able to do all content....that's just weird. As you said...some like this challenge some don't. Some don't like those easy-mode dungeons we have mostly, but they don't get buffed.
It's just fair to have all kind of content in this game.

Easy content: Solo (star zones, quest zones and so on), group content (normal dungeons and some vet dungeons, archive and maybe helra and normal MoL)
hard content: Solo (msa), group content (ICP/WGT, trial HM, SO, vMoL)

so everyone gets the content he/she wants...there's no reason to remove anything. If you want to complete the hard content you can scale them down (atleast most of them) or you can just get carried by your guild. If the rest of your group knows what to do it is possible (except vMoL).

anitajoneb17_ESO · April 2016

Destruent wrote: »

It's just fair to have all kind of content in this game. .../...there's no reason to remove anything.

It's got nothing to do with fairness, or with game-related issues, but with ROI (return on investment). Costs of maintenance / development versus numbers of players retained within the game (and also what type of player and their crown store behaviour).
That's capitalism. Can't blame them for that.

Destruent wrote: »

If you want to complete the hard content you can scale them down (atleast most of them) or you can just get carried by your guild. If the rest of your group knows what to do it is possible (except vMoL).

I often try to convince my guildies to run normal MoL for fun or try and work on vMoL downscaled to V1, to no avail. I personally don't get it why people want to try the hardest level or not at all. As if downscaling was cheating or exploiting or something... also it looks like they're truly afraid to loot one good piece in V1 useless format...

LiquidSchwartz · April 2016

Casual catering

These dungeons are easy enough i was hoping theyre makin them harder but instead we get more noobs getting favor over long players who actually play

Magdalina · April 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

In my understanding of things, if excellent players don't get enough/more content to chew on, it's probably a sign that there are fewer and fewer of them left... ZOS makes decisions based on real demographics.

Unfortunately this does seem true but...they do come out with some amazing challenging content. vDSA back in the day. SO. vMoL. vICP and WGT and COA before nerfs. They have really fun, great and challenging mechanics. They're awesome. You will see me bashing ZOS a lot for many things it does and does not do but @ZOS - you did GREAT job with vDSA, SO, WGT, ICP, COA, COH...thing is why are you now dumbing down that amazing job to afk button spam? Why don't you try to help people get better instead? It is possible.

I understand Zenimax is a business and has to make decision based on long term profit rather than what I, or perhaps even the devs themselves, see as fun. But do you really think it will profit the game in the long run if all the "hardcore" players leave? Who is it that makes guides, figures out mechanics, first notices and reports combat bugs? Do you really think game will be better off without these people?
They are not many and there is less and less left because there is (almost) nothing for them to do. But they/we are the longterm progression of the game. Once you get done with all the questing and fishing, what do you do? You might be an RP-er or a rare breed that enjoys doing same quests over and over again, or perhaps you have little free time and only play an hour a week and then the quests alone will keep you occupied for years to come(but should this really be the demographic ZOS wants to target?)...then you'll get bored. Perhaps try to become better at what you do in the game. Then you will get good. And then you'll realize that that's it...nothing to do once you get good, just move onto another game. Should that be it? All the "progress" possible in ESO? Learn, get better, get good...leave because bored? Nothing to aspire, nothing to strive for? You're basically better off never trying to become better because then you'll still have something kind of challenging to do and not just an interactive graphical novel.

Blackleopardex · April 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Blackleopardex wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

- People who refuse to "L2P" are perfectly legit too. It's their right. Playing is for fun, some find fun in effort, difficulty, stress and progress, others find their fun in a more relaxed and forgiving context. They are not "lesser players". I don't place any "value" into the notion of effort put into a video game. If you like making efforts, fine, but those who don't like it do not deserve less. There's no "merit", it's not a job, not a sport, not a prowess of any kind, it's a game.

a video game like ESO is highly based on competition. You can see it everywhere in achievements, pve scoreboards, pvp scoreboards, valued gear and even in trading. Like it or not. So I think yes if you put less effort into something you do not deserve the same rewards and achievements as the guys that do(learn, progress and work as the others). What on earth is the point then

I've highlighted the points which, imo, are the basis of our disagreement.

Games (like sports by the way) CAN be for competition, but do not HAVE TO be for competition. They can be for fun.

Obviously the Olympics are for competition but your town soccer club is not necessarily into competition. Many games and sports don't even involve "winning" or rankings.

What's the point ? FUN. People are different, some like competition and don't even see fun outside competition, other see it just the opposite way, BUT both are perfectly legit. People who aren't into "effort", "work" and "progression" are just as legit as everyone else. In games, in sports, even in society.

But obviously the town soccer club has limited resources and must make choices when it comes to provide courses or training or organize event : junior, senior, casual, elite levels ? They must decide if they aim for the Olympics, or for the well being of the town people, or whatever inbetween.

In the case of ESO, it's ZOS' call to decide what category/categories of players they wish to target. And believe, they don't do that based on whatever forum rants, but on hard real numbers. It is obvious to me that they are orienting the game more and more towards the type of players who likes it easy, explores and role plays. That's a fact, that's legit, like it or not.

I don't even see what competitive players really find in ESO : there's absolutely nothing competitive in this game (at least PVE-wise) since the rules (abilities, scoring, instances, conditions, etc...) change all the time, officially or nerfed. Does "Boethiah's Scythe" mean anything anymore ? What is it to be Nr1 in the leaderboards when your scoring conditions are totally different from what they were 2 weeks ago and will be different again in 2 weeks ?
Running 100m under 10 seconds is the same as what if was 100 years ago and what it will be in 100 years. There's nothing like that in ESO.

Anyway back to topic and TL/DR :

- Non-competitive players are not lesser players
- You cannot "force" people to "put effort" into a game
- It's ZOS decision to make the game easier and it's perfectly legit for them to do so
- Obviously the direction of the game is more and more towards "easy", take it or leave it
- There's nothing really competitive in ESO anyway. Go play Dark Soul for real challenge or League of Legends for real competition ? (I don't know these games very well maybe they're not the proper examples, but you see what I mean).

Let's make something clear, I never said non-competitive players are lesser players, I love to play with new people too, and I often go in random groups, sometimes just to help out.

I never wanted to force anyone to put effort into anything, but i do think some(very little atm) content should need some effort.

OK, this is a competitive game for sure, if it was not there would not be any content towards that direction at all, they obviously did not make Sanctum, vdsa, vmsa, and any of the VETERAN dungeons for a pretty stroymode with no effort. And not to mention PVP. Most games like this are built around competition and that does not mean that you have to follow that or even, like you say, put effort into it. But your missing a really big point, we are not discussing all the quests, all the solo dungeons, all the world bosses, all the public dungeons, all the normal dungeons and all the old veteran dungeons, that is already a 'walk in the park' by far! No. We are talking about 3 veteran dungeons. 3!! That's such a small part of the game. And still it's a problem to let this small part of the game stay "challenging", for some reason.

If it was up to me these 3 dungeons would be made harder and a group wipe would mean a reset of the dungeon. But hey, that would be insane ye?

Death should be punishing, and a death in this game means nothing compared to other games.

timidobserver · April 2016

Magdalina wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

In my understanding of things, if excellent players don't get enough/more content to chew on, it's probably a sign that there are fewer and fewer of them left... ZOS makes decisions based on real demographics.

Unfortunately this does seem true but...they do come out with some amazing challenging content. vDSA back in the day. SO. vMoL. vICP and WGT and COA before nerfs. They have really fun, great and challenging mechanics. They're awesome. You will see me bashing ZOS a lot for many things it does and does not do but @ZOS - you did GREAT job with vDSA, SO, WGT, ICP, COA, COH...thing is why are you now dumbing down that amazing job to afk button spam? Why don't you try to help people get better instead? It is possible.

I understand Zenimax is a business and has to make decision based on long term profit rather than what I, or perhaps even the devs themselves, see as fun. But do you really think it will profit the game in the long run if all the "hardcore" players leave? Who is it that makes guides, figures out mechanics, first notices and reports combat bugs? Do you really think game will be better off without these people?
They are not many and there is less and less left because there is (almost) nothing for them to do. But they/we are the longterm progression of the game. Once you get done with all the questing and fishing, what do you do? You might be an RP-er or a rare breed that enjoys doing same quests over and over again, or perhaps you have little free time and only play an hour a week and then the quests alone will keep you occupied for years to come(but should this really be the demographic ZOS wants to target?)...then you'll get bored. Perhaps try to become better at what you do in the game. Then you will get good. And then you'll realize that that's it...nothing to do once you get good, just move onto another game. Should that be it? All the "progress" possible in ESO? Learn, get better, get good...leave because bored? Nothing to aspire, nothing to strive for? You're basically better off never trying to become better because then you'll still have something kind of challenging to do and not just an interactive graphical novel.

Ha, I was waiting on someone to tell her to get good.

Attackopsn · April 2016

City is soloable, other two are completely L2P, can't believe they want to make it even more face-roll

NewBlacksmurf · April 2016

I see a few posts but we don't know what the difficulty of the game will become after VR is gone.
Let's let them reduce it and play first before saying yes or no

Bofrari · April 2016

To people that can't complete these three dungeons vcoa is laughable easy everytime we run it we don't even bring a tank and he's normally dead on the 2nd platform right at the beginning vwgt is the same thing stupidly easy no tank needed all you need is someone to taunt the last boss preferably a sorc vicp is a little challenging at 1st if your new too it but very doable all this is a complete learn to play issue it don't matter what your saying about not being able to complete it they are all excuses I'm by far no where near the best player and breeze through all this content quit wanting stuff handed to you because in the end all your doing is having zos dumbing things down to the point of wayrest sewers where it's so easy you don't even have to try.

Rune_Relic · April 2016

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

Khamira wrote: »

Undaunted Certificates:

You need to complete a challenge on few difficulty levels (from newbie to Epic-hardcore-oneshot mode), and after you do it you get an achievement/memento that you can show to those elitist jerks out there that you actually CAN heal/taunt/deal damage.

There are 3 types of challenges:
DPS: kill boss in less than X seconds, do that without dying, standing in stupid etc.

Healer: Heal an NPC that is under constant attack from mobs, boss, or stands in stupid, don't let him die.

Tank: Taunt things and don't let an NPC get oneshotted until NPC-DPS kills everything.

You get the point. Of course those certificates are totally optional, but you can check yourself how good you are, what parts of your gameplay needs to be polished etc etc. And when someone complains about you being on your VR3 5th alt, you can show him your Epic-hardcore-oneshot mode certificate.

Those challenges could be also valuable to test someone's new build or rotation. You post your build on forums and add "You can beat 14th level of difficulty with that".

Of course my idea is the most time consuming (new locations/arenas, NPC, voiceovers) but the most rewarding for newbies AND elite players both.

This is an amazing idea. And one should only be allowed to queue in the corresponding random group finder levels based on his highest score per role or at least the group finder should match the people of the same score levels together as much as possible, rather than their player levels. People with only the "normal" certificate should really not be allowed to queue for that role in the "veteran" queue

So we use a personal benchmarking system to automate entry into dungeon difficulty ?

Artis · April 2016

Why not introduce the save-option like in VMA?
If the problem is that some players can't complete it because they don't have time to spend to learn all bosses in one go - just do what you did with vMA.

That way it's easier for them to complete and Magdalina still can have her fun. Thought ZOS already figured the solution to this problem (and all similar problems).

anitajoneb17_ESO · April 2016

Blackleopardex wrote: »

If it was up to me these 3 dungeons would be made harder and a group wipe would mean a reset of the dungeon. But hey, that would be insane ye? Death should be punishing, and a death in this game means nothing compared to other games.

If it were up to you, you would have real completion figures which you would cross with your player demographics and your target audience. You would also have shareholders to report to.
You would probably end up making the same decision as ZOS.

Remember it's not a decision based on players' requests. It's ZOS' decision based on completion rates.

BlackEar · April 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Blackleopardex wrote: »

If it was up to me these 3 dungeons would be made harder and a group wipe would mean a reset of the dungeon. But hey, that would be insane ye? Death should be punishing, and a death in this game means nothing compared to other games.

If it were up to you, you would have real completion figures which you would cross with your player demographics and your target audience. You would also have shareholders to report to.
You would probably end up making the same decision as ZOS.

Remember it's not a decision based on players' requests. It's ZOS' decision based on completion rates.

Of course they got the numbers and the data

but we as the players have our own opinion and if we never voice them then they'll never hear us. At least what we can do is be constructive while speaking our mind. Hopefully ZOS will take what we say into consideration. Don't forget they cannot predict the future of the player base, they just do what they think is best, but unforeseen problems may arise because of it.