Stamina Balance in Dark Bros DLC!!!!

Refuse2GrowUp · April 2016

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

The thing is stamina is already good, its just not OP anymore. They don't have the zerg busting tools that magicka has with prox and VD but the solution to that is really just VD needs to go and prox damage needs to toned down, and AOE caps need to go, a little more dynamic ult gen wouldn't hurt either. Other than that stamina is in a fine place.

No stamina is NOT good we lack the resource sustain, survivability, and flexibility that you magic builds have.

As a stam build Im pretty much forced to go melee. The ONLY stam ranged option is the bow and it sucks when trying to main hand it plus I lose a significant amout of WD equipping it, but magic builds can play from range effectively without the range penalty(dual wield) and access to a plethora of heals and shields.

I play magicka and stamina for all the classes. Things are not as dreary as you would suggest

Lifecode666 · April 2016

ALL ULTITMATES need a morph that is based on stamina.

Only one ulti in game and that is take flight from dk. This is ***

Anti_Virus · April 2016

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

The thing is stamina is already good, its just not OP anymore. They don't have the zerg busting tools that magicka has with prox and VD but the solution to that is really just VD needs to go and prox damage needs to toned down, and AOE caps need to go, a little more dynamic ult gen wouldn't hurt either. Other than that stamina is in a fine place.

No stamina is NOT good we lack the resource sustain, survivability, and flexibility that you magic builds have.

As a stam build Im pretty much forced to go melee. The ONLY stam ranged option is the bow and it sucks when trying to main hand it plus I lose a significant amout of WD equipping it, but magic builds can play from range effectively without the range penalty(dual wield) and access to a plethora of heals and shields.

I play magicka and stamina for all the classes. Things are not as dreary as you would suggest

Are you going to elaborate on that statement? Because I gave me reasons why magic>stam. Heck I have an easier time playing my magic builds over my stam builds.

Averya_Teira · April 2016

The game should have had a third bar for sprinting/blocking from the start imo. You would have had tanks speccing into that third ressource and stuff like that.

Stamina being used for defense and skills means it will never be balanced.

bloodenragedb14_ESO · April 2016

just leave sorcerer alone

in lore, barring eso, there are not enough combat spells, as in a skill that produces a magickal effect, that uses stamina to make a viable build. This is lore, and i hate to see lore butchered to cater to people who want things their way

susmitds · April 2016

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

just leave sorcerer alone

in lore, barring eso, there are not enough combat spells, as in a skill that produces a magickal effect, that uses stamina to make a viable build. This is lore, and i hate to see lore butchered to cater to people who want things their way

Is there any lore to support summoning a killer's blade with stamina, and killing people with it? Or healing with stamina? Lore is meant to change. That is the whole concept of the Elder Scrolls series. Nothing is fixed.

bloodenragedb14_ESO · April 2016

susmitds wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

just leave sorcerer alone

in lore, barring eso, there are not enough combat spells, as in a skill that produces a magickal effect, that uses stamina to make a viable build. This is lore, and i hate to see lore butchered to cater to people who want things their way

Is there any lore to support summoning a killer's blade with stamina, and killing people with it? Or healing with stamina? Lore is meant to change. That is the whole concept of the Elder Scrolls series. Nothing is fixed.

as i said before, barring eso.

i am not fond of all the magickal skills that seemingly do not draw upon magicka in the first place, and people calling to make a class, that has always used magicka as a resource to pull off its spells, to suddenly use stamina.....

ive said this before,and ill say it again in as many threads as i find with this

i will always oppose the 'staminization' of the sorcerer class

susmitds · April 2016

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

just leave sorcerer alone

in lore, barring eso, there are not enough combat spells, as in a skill that produces a magickal effect, that uses stamina to make a viable build. This is lore, and i hate to see lore butchered to cater to people who want things their way

Is there any lore to support summoning a killer's blade with stamina, and killing people with it? Or healing with stamina? Lore is meant to change. That is the whole concept of the Elder Scrolls series. Nothing is fixed.

as i said before, barring eso.

i am not fond of all the magickal skills that seemingly do not draw upon magicka in the first place, and people calling to make a class, that has always used magicka as a resource to pull off its spells, to suddenly use stamina.....

ive said this before,and ill say it again in as many threads as i find with this

i will always oppose the 'staminization' of the sorcerer class

According to ES lore, nightblades that strictly use magicka to kill. Basically they are magical assassins. But in ESO, nightblades can be very "staminized". So why cant sorcerers get the same treatment?

Wtrenga · April 2016

How about implementing an additional "attribute" similar to stamina, but dedicated just to CC-breaks, dodge rolls, etc...this attribute again could be influenced by gear, passives etc.
That way, both stamina and magicka builds would have the same resource requirements.

Anti_Virus · April 2016

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

just leave sorcerer alone

in lore, barring eso, there are not enough combat spells, as in a skill that produces a magickal effect, that uses stamina to make a viable build. This is lore, and i hate to see lore butchered to cater to people who want things their way

Is there any lore to support summoning a killer's blade with stamina, and killing people with it? Or healing with stamina? Lore is meant to change. That is the whole concept of the Elder Scrolls series. Nothing is fixed.

as i said before, barring eso.

i am not fond of all the magickal skills that seemingly do not draw upon magicka in the first place, and people calling to make a class, that has always used magicka as a resource to pull off its spells, to suddenly use stamina.....

ive said this before,and ill say it again in as many threads as i find with this

i will always oppose the 'staminization' of the sorcerer class

A sorcerer isn’t just a dress wearing mage though. A sorcerer is a person that can use magic efficiently regardless of play style, in past ES games mages could play in heavy armor to be 'battle mages'.

DKs and Templars (Magic) are mages too since they use their magic to heal/buff themselfs yet they wear heavy armor and charge into battle instead of being a typical mage.

Even NBs are mages that are masters in illusion magic and they use that magic to be a stealthy rouges(cloak, fear,shades etc)

So 'stamina sorc' can exist It would be a magic that is a master of lighting and daedric summoning but instead of wearing a dress they too would charge into battle with melee weapon and cause havoc.

bloodenragedb14_ESO · April 2016

susmitds wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

just leave sorcerer alone

in lore, barring eso, there are not enough combat spells, as in a skill that produces a magickal effect, that uses stamina to make a viable build. This is lore, and i hate to see lore butchered to cater to people who want things their way

Is there any lore to support summoning a killer's blade with stamina, and killing people with it? Or healing with stamina? Lore is meant to change. That is the whole concept of the Elder Scrolls series. Nothing is fixed.

as i said before, barring eso.

i am not fond of all the magickal skills that seemingly do not draw upon magicka in the first place, and people calling to make a class, that has always used magicka as a resource to pull off its spells, to suddenly use stamina.....

ive said this before,and ill say it again in as many threads as i find with this

i will always oppose the 'staminization' of the sorcerer class

According to ES lore, nightblades that strictly use magicka to kill. Basically they are magical assassins. But in ESO, nightblades can be very "staminized". So why cant sorcerers get the same treatment?

why did the nightblade have to be staminized in the first place?

i really dont like how ZOS has done classes period, but if they must be, then i want them to stay as they are, there should be a clear choice when you choose your class, a clear understanding, on what your main resource for skills are, and i despise the attempt to change it

this is a agruement you wont win with me, and ill likely not win with you, agree to disagree, because this is my last post on this thread

Averya_Teira · April 2016

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

just leave sorcerer alone

in lore, barring eso, there are not enough combat spells, as in a skill that produces a magickal effect, that uses stamina to make a viable build. This is lore, and i hate to see lore butchered to cater to people who want things their way

Is there any lore to support summoning a killer's blade with stamina, and killing people with it? Or healing with stamina? Lore is meant to change. That is the whole concept of the Elder Scrolls series. Nothing is fixed.

as i said before, barring eso.

i am not fond of all the magickal skills that seemingly do not draw upon magicka in the first place, and people calling to make a class, that has always used magicka as a resource to pull off its spells, to suddenly use stamina.....

ive said this before,and ill say it again in as many threads as i find with this

i will always oppose the 'staminization' of the sorcerer class

According to ES lore, nightblades that strictly use magicka to kill. Basically they are magical assassins. But in ESO, nightblades can be very "staminized". So why cant sorcerers get the same treatment?

why did the nightblade have to be staminized in the first place?

i really dont like how ZOS has done classes period, but if they must be, then i want them to stay as they are, there should be a clear choice when you choose your class, a clear understanding, on what your main resource for skills are, and i despise the attempt to change it

this is a agruement you wont win with me, and ill likely not win with you, agree to disagree, because this is my last post on this thread

***let's be toxic!***

I heard WoW has locked classes with specific roles and ressources.

Ghost-Shot · April 2016

Zanen wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

EsoRecon wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

The thing is stamina is already good, its just not OP anymore. They don't have the zerg busting tools that magicka has with prox and VD but the solution to that is really just VD needs to go and prox damage needs to toned down, and AOE caps need to go, a little more dynamic ult gen wouldn't hurt either. Other than that stamina is in a fine place.

ok so either nerf magicka or buff stam

I clearly stated VD needs to go and prox needs to be toned down, but stam doesn't need a ton of buffs, a bit of sustain sure but steel tornado hitting for 10K+ was never balanced compared to impulse hitting for 5 or 6k, wrecking blow hitting for 12-15k while crushing shock would hit for 6 or 7k(combing all 3 hits). I think most stam users right now only feel underpowered because they are suffering from 1.6 DK syndrome, they went from broken as *** to reasonable and that's difficult to adjust to, trust me I get it, I rolled a DK at launch and didn't level an alt till the 1.6 pts patch notes dropped.

If you understand the fundamental differences between stamina and magicka builds, it should be very obvious why stamina weapon skills absolutely should hit harder than magicka weapon skills. The imbalance would be if magicka/stamina weapons did equal damage. We can argue to which degree, but stamina weapons should absolutely be better than magika weapons until the day that each and every class skill has a stamina morph.

Generally speaking, stamina survivability is on par with magicka, but stamina dps is not. Especially so for stamina classes that do not get strong primary attacks from their class trees. In this regard stamina should and most likely will be buffed next patch.

I can't see any reason why impulse, which has a significantly smaller radius at 6 meters compared to 9.5 on steel tornado(cant remember exactly, correct me if I'm wrong), with impulse you have no choice but be right in the middle of a group where as with steel tornado you are able to use a little more creative positioning to avoid as much damage, yet you think its reasonable that steel tornado deals so much more damage, not even factoring in execute damage, steel tornado will hit for ~3k more damage than impulse while hitting more targets and having the ability to execute which is ridiculous.

Do you play both? on more than one class?

Impulse hits just as hard as tornado outside of execute range, it also either has a significant DOT or reduces the target's health by a significant amount.

It also returns an astounding amount of magicka when killing trash, tornado is a very expensive ability in comparison.

But the big reason you can't compare them directly is that magicka builds have many more class aoe's to choose from. On my DK I can lay down blockade, eruption, talons, breath, elemental ring, draw essence, and then go into spamming the instants while all those dots tick.
On a magblade I can blockade, path, ring, sap, sap, sap ,sap...

On a stamina build, I've pretty much just got tornado on the DW bar, brawler for 2h...bow and caltrops for dots, but not all at once, and a bow/DW build that can actually put out decent aoe dps has significant drawbacks with limited healing and no true execute.

Everything doesn't have to be the same to be balanced.

Well judging by the 5 vet 16 toons listed in my sig I probably only play one class...I've played mag/stam templar, mag/stam dk, and magicka sorcerer and I can say without a shadow of a doubt that if your steel tornado deals the same damage as impulse you need more damage from your gear...

susmitds · April 2016

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Well judging by the 5 vet 16 toons listed in my sig I probably only play one class...I've played mag/stam templar, mag/stam dk, and magicka sorcerer and I can say without a shadow of a doubt that if your steel tornado deals the same damage as impulse you need more damage from your gear...

Actually the base damage, without gear and passives, of impulse is 22% higher than steel tornado (check uesp or esoacademy or try it yourself after resetting skills). However the weapon damage of Dual wielding is higher than the spell damage by 12%, with passives in both weapon skill lines. This results in the base damage of impulse being around 13% higher than steel tornado. However, gear wise, it is easier to stack weapon crit and weapon damage. So the tool tip damage of Steel Tornado becomes pretty close to impulse and deal similar damage. But, for low health enemies, steel tornado is buffed by two execution passives both of which increase its damage. It is at this point, steel tornado deals damage which more than twice its base damage and really puts the hurt on.