Stamina Balance in Dark Bros DLC!!!!

Necrelios

Well it sounds to me like stamina builds might be getting some more ability options, hopefully for Ultimate abilities as well. If we're lucky they might take defensive options into consideration while they're at it and maybe do something about resource sustainment. Everything we do consumes stamina and half those things prevent you from regenerating it at the same time.

krathos

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

EsoRecon wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

The thing is stamina is already good, its just not OP anymore. They don't have the zerg busting tools that magicka has with prox and VD but the solution to that is really just VD needs to go and prox damage needs to toned down, and AOE caps need to go, a little more dynamic ult gen wouldn't hurt either. Other than that stamina is in a fine place.

ok so either nerf magicka or buff stam

steel tornado hitting for 10K+ was never balanced compared to impulse hitting for 5 or 6k, wrecking blow hitting for 12-15k while crushing shock would hit for 6 or 7k(combing all 3 hits).

Steel tornado only hit that hard at execute range, really. Also Wrecking Blow is a melee range, cast timed, ability. Crushing shock is instant cast at range... WHY would you expect them to have similar damage.

Ghost-Shot

krathos wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

EsoRecon wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

The thing is stamina is already good, its just not OP anymore. They don't have the zerg busting tools that magicka has with prox and VD but the solution to that is really just VD needs to go and prox damage needs to toned down, and AOE caps need to go, a little more dynamic ult gen wouldn't hurt either. Other than that stamina is in a fine place.

ok so either nerf magicka or buff stam

steel tornado hitting for 10K+ was never balanced compared to impulse hitting for 5 or 6k, wrecking blow hitting for 12-15k while crushing shock would hit for 6 or 7k(combing all 3 hits).

Steel tornado only hit that hard at execute range, really. Also Wrecking Blow is a melee range, cast timed, ability. Crushing shock is instant cast at range... WHY would you expect them to have similar damage.

Just one example man, should we get into how much burst could be output with light attack puncture bash? And Wrecking blow has too strong of a CC tied to it to hit that hard

STEVIL

Fwiw, i already consider frags an instant cast dps. Who hard casts it except by accident?

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Burning_Talons wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Can we get some clarification about what changes are being brought to stamina? And I don't get what needs changing in the Vampire Skill Line. Maybe change damage types of Fighter's Guild abilities.
For some reason, every time ZoS mentions balance, I feel like another build is going to get murdered.

Bat Swarm could use a nerf in damage since you can attack as it's going off.

You can attack while standard is up, and its a DoT meaning it can be avoided

Lol the standard is stationary so no one will stand in it, batswarm is mobile and can make you untargetable (clouding)

CyrusArya

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

EsoRecon wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

The thing is stamina is already good, its just not OP anymore. They don't have the zerg busting tools that magicka has with prox and VD but the solution to that is really just VD needs to go and prox damage needs to toned down, and AOE caps need to go, a little more dynamic ult gen wouldn't hurt either. Other than that stamina is in a fine place.

ok so either nerf magicka or buff stam

I clearly stated VD needs to go and prox needs to be toned down, but stam doesn't need a ton of buffs, a bit of sustain sure but steel tornado hitting for 10K+ was never balanced compared to impulse hitting for 5 or 6k, wrecking blow hitting for 12-15k while crushing shock would hit for 6 or 7k(combing all 3 hits). I think most stam users right now only feel underpowered because they are suffering from 1.6 DK syndrome, they went from broken as *** to reasonable and that's difficult to adjust to, trust me I get it, I rolled a DK at launch and didn't level an alt till the 1.6 pts patch notes dropped.

If you understand the fundamental differences between stamina and magicka builds, it should be very obvious why stamina weapon skills absolutely should hit harder than magicka weapon skills. The imbalance would be if magicka/stamina weapons did equal damage. We can argue to which degree, but stamina weapons should absolutely be better than magika weapons until the day that each and every class skill has a stamina morph.

Generally speaking, stamina survivability is on par with magicka, but stamina dps is not. Especially so for stamina classes that do not get strong primary attacks from their class trees. In this regard stamina should and most likely will be buffed next patch.

AfkNinja

Svalinn wrote: »

"Super Dark Bros 2"

Dark Bro's 3, Darkness strikes back bro.

Strider_Roshin

I really hope they don't make stamina OP. They just need to make shields cri-able, tone down the shield potential for healing ward, and tone down the blocking, and dodge rolling penalty for stamina, and I think we'll be good. Oh and rework the bow abilities, and passives. Also quicken the burst heal for Rally, and give

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Can we get some clarification about what changes are being brought to stamina? And I don't get what needs changing in the Vampire Skill Line. Maybe change damage types of Fighter's Guild abilities.
For some reason, every time ZoS mentions balance, I feel like another build is going to get murdered.

Bat Swarm could use a nerf in damage since you can attack as it's going off.

You can attack while standard is up, and its a DoT meaning it can be avoided

Lol the standard is stationary so no one will stand in it, batswarm is mobile and can make you untargetable (clouding)

Lol a response wasn't necessary Shadow. It was a bad comparison. Both moves cause a great deal of damage, however Bats is significantly cheaper and it follows the caster around. It's so OP, a lot of stamina users become vampires just for that ultimate, even though it does 25% less damage for them. I don't see any magicka users becoming werewolves for their OP abilities.

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Strider_Roshin wrote: »

I really hope they don't make stamina OP. They just need to make shields cri-able, tone down the shield potential for healing ward, and tone down the blocking, and dodge rolling penalty for stamina, and I think we'll be good. Oh and rework the bow abilities, and passives. Also quicken the burst heal for Rally, and give

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Can we get some clarification about what changes are being brought to stamina? And I don't get what needs changing in the Vampire Skill Line. Maybe change damage types of Fighter's Guild abilities.
For some reason, every time ZoS mentions balance, I feel like another build is going to get murdered.

Bat Swarm could use a nerf in damage since you can attack as it's going off.

You can attack while standard is up, and its a DoT meaning it can be avoided

Lol the standard is stationary so no one will stand in it, batswarm is mobile and can make you untargetable (clouding)

Lol a response wasn't necessary Shadow. It was a bad comparison. Both moves cause a great deal of damage, however Bats is significantly cheaper and it follows the caster around. It's so OP, a lot of stamina users become vampires just for that ultimate, even though it does 25% less damage for them. I don't see any magicka users becoming werewolves for their OP abilities.

I agree on Stam builds being OP, I don't want that either, but I don't see how they could make it OP as Stamina abilities have a limit. Stamina builds don't have a lot of resource sustain compared to magic.(You can't permanently roll dodge IRL because you get tired eventually same with holding a shield up for a while)

Stam builds also don't have a lot of healing limiting choices at 2 viable healinh skills, Why? Because logically you can't just magically heal yourself in the heat of battle.

However magic has and allways will have an advantage over stam because there abilities don't follow science and common sense ( can magically summon a metor from the sky. Place a barrier to absorb dmg. How? Magic that's why!) and In most fantasy games mages rule with an Iron fist because they have no limits to their abilities.

I personally enjoy stam over magic because I feel like its more challenging to play but I don't want stam to rule cyrodil either and I highly doubt that it will.

Strider_Roshin

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

I really hope they don't make stamina OP. They just need to make shields cri-able, tone down the shield potential for healing ward, and tone down the blocking, and dodge rolling penalty for stamina, and I think we'll be good. Oh and rework the bow abilities, and passives. Also quicken the burst heal for Rally, and give

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Can we get some clarification about what changes are being brought to stamina? And I don't get what needs changing in the Vampire Skill Line. Maybe change damage types of Fighter's Guild abilities.
For some reason, every time ZoS mentions balance, I feel like another build is going to get murdered.

Bat Swarm could use a nerf in damage since you can attack as it's going off.

You can attack while standard is up, and its a DoT meaning it can be avoided

Lol the standard is stationary so no one will stand in it, batswarm is mobile and can make you untargetable (clouding)

Lol a response wasn't necessary Shadow. It was a bad comparison. Both moves cause a great deal of damage, however Bats is significantly cheaper and it follows the caster around. It's so OP, a lot of stamina users become vampires just for that ultimate, even though it does 25% less damage for them. I don't see any magicka users becoming werewolves for their OP abilities.

I agree on Stam builds being OP, I don't want that either, but I don't see how they could make it OP as Stamina abilities have a limit. Stamina builds don't have a lot of resource sustain compared to magic.(You can't permanently roll dodge IRL because you get tired eventually same with holding a shield up for a while)

Stam builds also don't have a lot of healing limiting choices at 2 viable healinh skills, Why? Because logically you can't just magically heal yourself in the heat of battle.

However magic has and allways will have an advantage over stam because there abilities don't follow science and common sense ( can magically summon a metor from the sky. How? Magic that's why!) and In most fantasy games mages rule with an Iron fist because they have no limits to their abilities.

I personally enjoy stam over magic because I feel like its more challenging to play but I don't want stam to rule cyrodil either and I highly doubt that it will.

The issue is that there used to be a trade off. Stam used to dish out the most damage, and magicka had the best survivability due to heals, and damage shields. Now magicka builds do more damage, still have better survivability, and due to all the harsh nerfs magicka now has by far superior resource management. Eventually there's not going to be a difference between the two play styles because when one play style has something the other doesn't people whine about it until they have it. Well now magicka has the strengths of stamina while bearing none of the weaknesses, and now they're going to buff stamina to the point where we don't have any weaknesses. Sigh... If the developers don't grow a spine this game is going to get real bland.

potirondb16_ESO

Small advice for the man in charge, don't play god, play royal !

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Strider_Roshin wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

I really hope they don't make stamina OP. They just need to make shields cri-able, tone down the shield potential for healing ward, and tone down the blocking, and dodge rolling penalty for stamina, and I think we'll be good. Oh and rework the bow abilities, and passives. Also quicken the burst heal for Rally, and give

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Can we get some clarification about what changes are being brought to stamina? And I don't get what needs changing in the Vampire Skill Line. Maybe change damage types of Fighter's Guild abilities.
For some reason, every time ZoS mentions balance, I feel like another build is going to get murdered.

Bat Swarm could use a nerf in damage since you can attack as it's going off.

You can attack while standard is up, and its a DoT meaning it can be avoided

Lol the standard is stationary so no one will stand in it, batswarm is mobile and can make you untargetable (clouding)

Lol a response wasn't necessary Shadow. It was a bad comparison. Both moves cause a great deal of damage, however Bats is significantly cheaper and it follows the caster around. It's so OP, a lot of stamina users become vampires just for that ultimate, even though it does 25% less damage for them. I don't see any magicka users becoming werewolves for their OP abilities.

I agree on Stam builds being OP, I don't want that either, but I don't see how they could make it OP as Stamina abilities have a limit. Stamina builds don't have a lot of resource sustain compared to magic.(You can't permanently roll dodge IRL because you get tired eventually same with holding a shield up for a while)

Stam builds also don't have a lot of healing limiting choices at 2 viable healinh skills, Why? Because logically you can't just magically heal yourself in the heat of battle.

However magic has and allways will have an advantage over stam because there abilities don't follow science and common sense ( can magically summon a metor from the sky. How? Magic that's why!) and In most fantasy games mages rule with an Iron fist because they have no limits to their abilities.

I personally enjoy stam over magic because I feel like its more challenging to play but I don't want stam to rule cyrodil either and I highly doubt that it will.

The issue is that there used to be a trade off. Stam used to dish out the most damage, and magicka had the best survivability due to heals, and damage shields. Now magicka builds do more damage, still have better survivability, and due to all the harsh nerfs magicka now has by far superior resource management. Eventually there's not going to be a difference between the two play styles because when one play style has something the other doesn't people whine about it until they have it. Well now magicka has the strengths of stamina while bearing none of the weaknesses, and now they're going to buff stamina to the point where we don't have any weaknesses. Sigh... If the developers don't grow a spine this game is going to get real bland.

Yep, even in Dark Souls Magic was so strong the community called for nerfs and now magic in the series is slow or down right useless.

Strider_Roshin

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

I really hope they don't make stamina OP. They just need to make shields cri-able, tone down the shield potential for healing ward, and tone down the blocking, and dodge rolling penalty for stamina, and I think we'll be good. Oh and rework the bow abilities, and passives. Also quicken the burst heal for Rally, and give

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Can we get some clarification about what changes are being brought to stamina? And I don't get what needs changing in the Vampire Skill Line. Maybe change damage types of Fighter's Guild abilities.
For some reason, every time ZoS mentions balance, I feel like another build is going to get murdered.

Bat Swarm could use a nerf in damage since you can attack as it's going off.

You can attack while standard is up, and its a DoT meaning it can be avoided

Lol the standard is stationary so no one will stand in it, batswarm is mobile and can make you untargetable (clouding)

Lol a response wasn't necessary Shadow. It was a bad comparison. Both moves cause a great deal of damage, however Bats is significantly cheaper and it follows the caster around. It's so OP, a lot of stamina users become vampires just for that ultimate, even though it does 25% less damage for them. I don't see any magicka users becoming werewolves for their OP abilities.

I agree on Stam builds being OP, I don't want that either, but I don't see how they could make it OP as Stamina abilities have a limit. Stamina builds don't have a lot of resource sustain compared to magic.(You can't permanently roll dodge IRL because you get tired eventually same with holding a shield up for a while)

Stam builds also don't have a lot of healing limiting choices at 2 viable healinh skills, Why? Because logically you can't just magically heal yourself in the heat of battle.

However magic has and allways will have an advantage over stam because there abilities don't follow science and common sense ( can magically summon a metor from the sky. How? Magic that's why!) and In most fantasy games mages rule with an Iron fist because they have no limits to their abilities.

I personally enjoy stam over magic because I feel like its more challenging to play but I don't want stam to rule cyrodil either and I highly doubt that it will.

The issue is that there used to be a trade off. Stam used to dish out the most damage, and magicka had the best survivability due to heals, and damage shields. Now magicka builds do more damage, still have better survivability, and due to all the harsh nerfs magicka now has by far superior resource management. Eventually there's not going to be a difference between the two play styles because when one play style has something the other doesn't people whine about it until they have it. Well now magicka has the strengths of stamina while bearing none of the weaknesses, and now they're going to buff stamina to the point where we don't have any weaknesses. Sigh... If the developers don't grow a spine this game is going to get real bland.

Yep, even in Dark Souls Magic was so strong the community called for nerfs and now magic in the series is slow or down right useless.

Lol not in PvE, it's makes PvE pathetically easy. But it's not very viable in PvP due to the back stabbing that occurs with casting spells. If they toned down the damage and speed up the cast time it would do wonders. I'm guessing you're also playing DS3 right now?

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Strider_Roshin wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

I really hope they don't make stamina OP. They just need to make shields cri-able, tone down the shield potential for healing ward, and tone down the blocking, and dodge rolling penalty for stamina, and I think we'll be good. Oh and rework the bow abilities, and passives. Also quicken the burst heal for Rally, and give

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Can we get some clarification about what changes are being brought to stamina? And I don't get what needs changing in the Vampire Skill Line. Maybe change damage types of Fighter's Guild abilities.
For some reason, every time ZoS mentions balance, I feel like another build is going to get murdered.

Bat Swarm could use a nerf in damage since you can attack as it's going off.

You can attack while standard is up, and its a DoT meaning it can be avoided

Lol the standard is stationary so no one will stand in it, batswarm is mobile and can make you untargetable (clouding)

Lol a response wasn't necessary Shadow. It was a bad comparison. Both moves cause a great deal of damage, however Bats is significantly cheaper and it follows the caster around. It's so OP, a lot of stamina users become vampires just for that ultimate, even though it does 25% less damage for them. I don't see any magicka users becoming werewolves for their OP abilities.

I agree on Stam builds being OP, I don't want that either, but I don't see how they could make it OP as Stamina abilities have a limit. Stamina builds don't have a lot of resource sustain compared to magic.(You can't permanently roll dodge IRL because you get tired eventually same with holding a shield up for a while)

Stam builds also don't have a lot of healing limiting choices at 2 viable healinh skills, Why? Because logically you can't just magically heal yourself in the heat of battle.

However magic has and allways will have an advantage over stam because there abilities don't follow science and common sense ( can magically summon a metor from the sky. How? Magic that's why!) and In most fantasy games mages rule with an Iron fist because they have no limits to their abilities.

I personally enjoy stam over magic because I feel like its more challenging to play but I don't want stam to rule cyrodil either and I highly doubt that it will.

The issue is that there used to be a trade off. Stam used to dish out the most damage, and magicka had the best survivability due to heals, and damage shields. Now magicka builds do more damage, still have better survivability, and due to all the harsh nerfs magicka now has by far superior resource management. Eventually there's not going to be a difference between the two play styles because when one play style has something the other doesn't people whine about it until they have it. Well now magicka has the strengths of stamina while bearing none of the weaknesses, and now they're going to buff stamina to the point where we don't have any weaknesses. Sigh... If the developers don't grow a spine this game is going to get real bland.

Yep, even in Dark Souls Magic was so strong the community called for nerfs and now magic in the series is slow or down right useless.

Lol not in PvE, it's makes PvE pathetically easy. But it's not very viable in PvP due to the back stabbing that occurs with casting spells. If they toned down the damage and speed up the cast time it would do wonders. I'm guessing you're also playing DS3 right now?

Don't own the game yet, but Ive played it on a friends PC and he says magic sucks. Lol.

Strider_Roshin

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

I really hope they don't make stamina OP. They just need to make shields cri-able, tone down the shield potential for healing ward, and tone down the blocking, and dodge rolling penalty for stamina, and I think we'll be good. Oh and rework the bow abilities, and passives. Also quicken the burst heal for Rally, and give

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Can we get some clarification about what changes are being brought to stamina? And I don't get what needs changing in the Vampire Skill Line. Maybe change damage types of Fighter's Guild abilities.
For some reason, every time ZoS mentions balance, I feel like another build is going to get murdered.

Bat Swarm could use a nerf in damage since you can attack as it's going off.

You can attack while standard is up, and its a DoT meaning it can be avoided

Lol the standard is stationary so no one will stand in it, batswarm is mobile and can make you untargetable (clouding)

Lol a response wasn't necessary Shadow. It was a bad comparison. Both moves cause a great deal of damage, however Bats is significantly cheaper and it follows the caster around. It's so OP, a lot of stamina users become vampires just for that ultimate, even though it does 25% less damage for them. I don't see any magicka users becoming werewolves for their OP abilities.

I agree on Stam builds being OP, I don't want that either, but I don't see how they could make it OP as Stamina abilities have a limit. Stamina builds don't have a lot of resource sustain compared to magic.(You can't permanently roll dodge IRL because you get tired eventually same with holding a shield up for a while)

Stam builds also don't have a lot of healing limiting choices at 2 viable healinh skills, Why? Because logically you can't just magically heal yourself in the heat of battle.

However magic has and allways will have an advantage over stam because there abilities don't follow science and common sense ( can magically summon a metor from the sky. How? Magic that's why!) and In most fantasy games mages rule with an Iron fist because they have no limits to their abilities.

I personally enjoy stam over magic because I feel like its more challenging to play but I don't want stam to rule cyrodil either and I highly doubt that it will.

The issue is that there used to be a trade off. Stam used to dish out the most damage, and magicka had the best survivability due to heals, and damage shields. Now magicka builds do more damage, still have better survivability, and due to all the harsh nerfs magicka now has by far superior resource management. Eventually there's not going to be a difference between the two play styles because when one play style has something the other doesn't people whine about it until they have it. Well now magicka has the strengths of stamina while bearing none of the weaknesses, and now they're going to buff stamina to the point where we don't have any weaknesses. Sigh... If the developers don't grow a spine this game is going to get real bland.

Yep, even in Dark Souls Magic was so strong the community called for nerfs and now magic in the series is slow or down right useless.

Lol not in PvE, it's makes PvE pathetically easy. But it's not very viable in PvP due to the back stabbing that occurs with casting spells. If they toned down the damage and speed up the cast time it would do wonders. I'm guessing you're also playing DS3 right now?

Don't own the game yet, but Ive played it on a friends PC and he says magic sucks. Lol.

Glass cannon pyromancers can 1-shot players and 4 shot bosses lol. Just don't get hit.

olsborg

Oh would be nice to have a stamina heal and major brutality so we can deviate from the 2h meta.

Averya_Teira

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

Can we not call it Dark Bros, it makes it sound like a cheesy vampire movie about 2 black vampires who are brothers and fight for a hot human girl....

Looooooool ! That sounds like the black version of vampire diaries, which ... Well couldn't be worse than the original show haha.

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Strider_Roshin wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

I really hope they don't make stamina OP. They just need to make shields cri-able, tone down the shield potential for healing ward, and tone down the blocking, and dodge rolling penalty for stamina, and I think we'll be good. Oh and rework the bow abilities, and passives. Also quicken the burst heal for Rally, and give

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Can we get some clarification about what changes are being brought to stamina? And I don't get what needs changing in the Vampire Skill Line. Maybe change damage types of Fighter's Guild abilities.
For some reason, every time ZoS mentions balance, I feel like another build is going to get murdered.

Bat Swarm could use a nerf in damage since you can attack as it's going off.

You can attack while standard is up, and its a DoT meaning it can be avoided

Lol the standard is stationary so no one will stand in it, batswarm is mobile and can make you untargetable (clouding)

Lol a response wasn't necessary Shadow. It was a bad comparison. Both moves cause a great deal of damage, however Bats is significantly cheaper and it follows the caster around. It's so OP, a lot of stamina users become vampires just for that ultimate, even though it does 25% less damage for them. I don't see any magicka users becoming werewolves for their OP abilities.

I agree on Stam builds being OP, I don't want that either, but I don't see how they could make it OP as Stamina abilities have a limit. Stamina builds don't have a lot of resource sustain compared to magic.(You can't permanently roll dodge IRL because you get tired eventually same with holding a shield up for a while)

Stam builds also don't have a lot of healing limiting choices at 2 viable healinh skills, Why? Because logically you can't just magically heal yourself in the heat of battle.

However magic has and allways will have an advantage over stam because there abilities don't follow science and common sense ( can magically summon a metor from the sky. How? Magic that's why!) and In most fantasy games mages rule with an Iron fist because they have no limits to their abilities.

I personally enjoy stam over magic because I feel like its more challenging to play but I don't want stam to rule cyrodil either and I highly doubt that it will.

The issue is that there used to be a trade off. Stam used to dish out the most damage, and magicka had the best survivability due to heals, and damage shields. Now magicka builds do more damage, still have better survivability, and due to all the harsh nerfs magicka now has by far superior resource management. Eventually there's not going to be a difference between the two play styles because when one play style has something the other doesn't people whine about it until they have it. Well now magicka has the strengths of stamina while bearing none of the weaknesses, and now they're going to buff stamina to the point where we don't have any weaknesses. Sigh... If the developers don't grow a spine this game is going to get real bland.

Yep, even in Dark Souls Magic was so strong the community called for nerfs and now magic in the series is slow or down right useless.

Lol not in PvE, it's makes PvE pathetically easy. But it's not very viable in PvP due to the back stabbing that occurs with casting spells. If they toned down the damage and speed up the cast time it would do wonders. I'm guessing you're also playing DS3 right now?

Don't own the game yet, but Ive played it on a friends PC and he says magic sucks. Lol.

Glass cannon pyromancers can 1-shot players and 4 shot bosses lol. Just don't get hit.

Nice, and the trade off is extreme squishyness which is balanced.

Ajaxduo

In all honesty stamina just needs physical/poison morphs instead of magic damage. Maybe the odd skill/morph change for you dirty stam sorcs! xD

Ghost-Shot

CyrusArya wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

EsoRecon wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

The thing is stamina is already good, its just not OP anymore. They don't have the zerg busting tools that magicka has with prox and VD but the solution to that is really just VD needs to go and prox damage needs to toned down, and AOE caps need to go, a little more dynamic ult gen wouldn't hurt either. Other than that stamina is in a fine place.

ok so either nerf magicka or buff stam

I clearly stated VD needs to go and prox needs to be toned down, but stam doesn't need a ton of buffs, a bit of sustain sure but steel tornado hitting for 10K+ was never balanced compared to impulse hitting for 5 or 6k, wrecking blow hitting for 12-15k while crushing shock would hit for 6 or 7k(combing all 3 hits). I think most stam users right now only feel underpowered because they are suffering from 1.6 DK syndrome, they went from broken as *** to reasonable and that's difficult to adjust to, trust me I get it, I rolled a DK at launch and didn't level an alt till the 1.6 pts patch notes dropped.

If you understand the fundamental differences between stamina and magicka builds, it should be very obvious why stamina weapon skills absolutely should hit harder than magicka weapon skills. The imbalance would be if magicka/stamina weapons did equal damage. We can argue to which degree, but stamina weapons should absolutely be better than magika weapons until the day that each and every class skill has a stamina morph.

Generally speaking, stamina survivability is on par with magicka, but stamina dps is not. Especially so for stamina classes that do not get strong primary attacks from their class trees. In this regard stamina should and most likely will be buffed next patch.

I can't see any reason why impulse, which has a significantly smaller radius at 6 meters compared to 9.5 on steel tornado(cant remember exactly, correct me if I'm wrong), with impulse you have no choice but be right in the middle of a group where as with steel tornado you are able to use a little more creative positioning to avoid as much damage, yet you think its reasonable that steel tornado deals so much more damage, not even factoring in execute damage, steel tornado will hit for ~3k more damage than impulse while hitting more targets and having the ability to execute which is ridiculous.

Emma_Overload

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Stamina would be much better balanced in PvP if...

1) There was a ward similar in size and function to Harness Magicka but that absorbed Stamina instead. Maybe Bone Shield could be upgraded to do this?

2) There were enchants for weapons that raised spell power like the ones that already exist for weapon power. Same thing goes for the penetration enchants.

3) There was a magicka based form of "break free" that could be activated WHILE the caster was CC'd. There needs to be a magicka dodge roll, too.

4) There were spammable instant damage spells as good as Surprise Attack available for all classes, especially Sorcs

How does any of that do anything for stamina besides the first point?

All my points are designed to balance stamina with magicka, which sorely needs to be done. Perhaps you think that balance means buffs only? LOL, please! Stamina builds, especially NBs, are still OP as #@&%, even after the Thieves Guild rebalance of the Champion System. Gap closer spam is as bad as it ever was, and now there are all these guys who can Shuffle-dodge 5 Frags or Overloads in a row.

Moonshadow66

susmitds wrote: »

(...)
For some reason, every time ZoS mentions balance, I feel like another build is going to get murdered.

It's like with my hair: long hair, want to cut the ends. Try to even it out, and boom, I got a bob.

Strider_Roshin

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

I really hope they don't make stamina OP. They just need to make shields cri-able, tone down the shield potential for healing ward, and tone down the blocking, and dodge rolling penalty for stamina, and I think we'll be good. Oh and rework the bow abilities, and passives. Also quicken the burst heal for Rally, and give

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Can we get some clarification about what changes are being brought to stamina? And I don't get what needs changing in the Vampire Skill Line. Maybe change damage types of Fighter's Guild abilities.
For some reason, every time ZoS mentions balance, I feel like another build is going to get murdered.

Bat Swarm could use a nerf in damage since you can attack as it's going off.

You can attack while standard is up, and its a DoT meaning it can be avoided

Lol the standard is stationary so no one will stand in it, batswarm is mobile and can make you untargetable (clouding)

Lol a response wasn't necessary Shadow. It was a bad comparison. Both moves cause a great deal of damage, however Bats is significantly cheaper and it follows the caster around. It's so OP, a lot of stamina users become vampires just for that ultimate, even though it does 25% less damage for them. I don't see any magicka users becoming werewolves for their OP abilities.

I agree on Stam builds being OP, I don't want that either, but I don't see how they could make it OP as Stamina abilities have a limit. Stamina builds don't have a lot of resource sustain compared to magic.(You can't permanently roll dodge IRL because you get tired eventually same with holding a shield up for a while)

Stam builds also don't have a lot of healing limiting choices at 2 viable healinh skills, Why? Because logically you can't just magically heal yourself in the heat of battle.

However magic has and allways will have an advantage over stam because there abilities don't follow science and common sense ( can magically summon a metor from the sky. How? Magic that's why!) and In most fantasy games mages rule with an Iron fist because they have no limits to their abilities.

I personally enjoy stam over magic because I feel like its more challenging to play but I don't want stam to rule cyrodil either and I highly doubt that it will.

The issue is that there used to be a trade off. Stam used to dish out the most damage, and magicka had the best survivability due to heals, and damage shields. Now magicka builds do more damage, still have better survivability, and due to all the harsh nerfs magicka now has by far superior resource management. Eventually there's not going to be a difference between the two play styles because when one play style has something the other doesn't people whine about it until they have it. Well now magicka has the strengths of stamina while bearing none of the weaknesses, and now they're going to buff stamina to the point where we don't have any weaknesses. Sigh... If the developers don't grow a spine this game is going to get real bland.

Yep, even in Dark Souls Magic was so strong the community called for nerfs and now magic in the series is slow or down right useless.

Lol not in PvE, it's makes PvE pathetically easy. But it's not very viable in PvP due to the back stabbing that occurs with casting spells. If they toned down the damage and speed up the cast time it would do wonders. I'm guessing you're also playing DS3 right now?

Don't own the game yet, but Ive played it on a friends PC and he says magic sucks. Lol.

Glass cannon pyromancers can 1-shot players and 4 shot bosses lol. Just don't get hit.

Nice, and the trade off is extreme squishyness which is balanced.

Yep, no damage shields in that game thankfully lol

Anti_Virus

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Stamina would be much better balanced in PvP if...

1) There was a ward similar in size and function to Harness Magicka but that absorbed Stamina instead. Maybe Bone Shield could be upgraded to do this?

2) There were enchants for weapons that raised spell power like the ones that already exist for weapon power. Same thing goes for the penetration enchants.

3) There was a magicka based form of "break free" that could be activated WHILE the caster was CC'd. There needs to be a magicka dodge roll, too.

4) There were spammable instant damage spells as good as Surprise Attack available for all classes, especially Sorcs

How does any of that do anything for stamina besides the first point?

All my points are designed to balance stamina with magicka, which sorely needs to be done. Perhaps you think that balance means buffs only? LOL, please! Stamina builds, especially NBs, are still OP as #@&%, even after the Thieves Guild rebalance of the Champion System. Gap closer spam is as bad as it ever was, and now there are all these guys who can Shuffle-dodge 5 Frags or Overloads in a row.

NB are OP? LOL sorcs are op dress wearing, stick carrying scrubs that can take more dmg than a person wearing STEEL(hiding behide 3 shields like a coward) spamming Mines and frags.

Then you can use your utilmate and spam overload couple times.
If they don't die Smash your face into your keyboard until they die.

EDIT: get your keys ready to restack wards as soon as you take 1hp in dmg and streak away into your zerg.

Zanen

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

EsoRecon wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

The thing is stamina is already good, its just not OP anymore. They don't have the zerg busting tools that magicka has with prox and VD but the solution to that is really just VD needs to go and prox damage needs to toned down, and AOE caps need to go, a little more dynamic ult gen wouldn't hurt either. Other than that stamina is in a fine place.

ok so either nerf magicka or buff stam

I clearly stated VD needs to go and prox needs to be toned down, but stam doesn't need a ton of buffs, a bit of sustain sure but steel tornado hitting for 10K+ was never balanced compared to impulse hitting for 5 or 6k, wrecking blow hitting for 12-15k while crushing shock would hit for 6 or 7k(combing all 3 hits). I think most stam users right now only feel underpowered because they are suffering from 1.6 DK syndrome, they went from broken as *** to reasonable and that's difficult to adjust to, trust me I get it, I rolled a DK at launch and didn't level an alt till the 1.6 pts patch notes dropped.

If you understand the fundamental differences between stamina and magicka builds, it should be very obvious why stamina weapon skills absolutely should hit harder than magicka weapon skills. The imbalance would be if magicka/stamina weapons did equal damage. We can argue to which degree, but stamina weapons should absolutely be better than magika weapons until the day that each and every class skill has a stamina morph.

Generally speaking, stamina survivability is on par with magicka, but stamina dps is not. Especially so for stamina classes that do not get strong primary attacks from their class trees. In this regard stamina should and most likely will be buffed next patch.

I can't see any reason why impulse, which has a significantly smaller radius at 6 meters compared to 9.5 on steel tornado(cant remember exactly, correct me if I'm wrong), with impulse you have no choice but be right in the middle of a group where as with steel tornado you are able to use a little more creative positioning to avoid as much damage, yet you think its reasonable that steel tornado deals so much more damage, not even factoring in execute damage, steel tornado will hit for ~3k more damage than impulse while hitting more targets and having the ability to execute which is ridiculous.

Do you play both? on more than one class?

Impulse hits just as hard as tornado outside of execute range, it also either has a significant DOT or reduces the target's health by a significant amount.

It also returns an astounding amount of magicka when killing trash, tornado is a very expensive ability in comparison.

But the big reason you can't compare them directly is that magicka builds have many more class aoe's to choose from. On my DK I can lay down blockade, eruption, talons, breath, elemental ring, draw essence, and then go into spamming the instants while all those dots tick.
On a magblade I can blockade, path, ring, sap, sap, sap ,sap...

On a stamina build, I've pretty much just got tornado on the DW bar, brawler for 2h...bow and caltrops for dots, but not all at once, and a bow/DW build that can actually put out decent aoe dps has significant drawbacks with limited healing and no true execute.

Everything doesn't have to be the same to be balanced.

Vangy

Stamina balance? More like some stamina buffs. My dk and nb pay through their butt holes with stamina for so much as taking a fart.

Meanwhile my sorc is blowing through opponents and tanking more damage than my dk tank in full impen lolol.

mtwiggz

susmitds wrote: »

Can we get some clarification about what changes are being brought to stamina? And I don't get what needs changing in the Vampire Skill Line. Maybe change damage types of Fighter's Guild abilities.
For some reason, every time ZoS mentions balance, I feel like another build is going to get murdered.

It's because every time they do mention "balance" they make it worse.

Every. Single. Time.

It's been a constant flux of Magicka or Stamina being more over powered than the other for many patches now. The only constant has been Magicka Sorc. I believe whomever at ZoS that defined balance is grossly confused on what it actually means.

acw37162

I'm really hoping to see more variety among stamina weapons and not just everyone using 2H, which will probably consist of 2H getting neefed somewhat.

Templars need a class skill that gives them major brutality and major sorcery to allow freedom in skill line choices.

Stamina sorcs need a lot of love, because their design is magic giving them utility. There needs to be a magic based skill that gives them magor savagery/major prophecy and a version of overload that is based off weapon damage and stamina. Overload could be the skill that while slotted gives major savagery.

Crit surge should imbue your attacks with lightening damage while active and the stamina morph of thundering presence should scale off mighty and not elemental expert.

Silver leash needs to work like a gap closer 100% of the time if activated twice

The DW passives need some work and I would like to throwing dagger or at least a morph of it reworked completely to be have an effect like grim focus.

I think we might see weapon ultimates.

The dragon Knjght stamina morphs dealing poison damage while bothering to some would be an awesome change that gets to huge CP buff.

Stamina Night Blades, I don't even know what to say. Hardest hitting most survivable will be indirectly buffed by any positive changes to stamina. I'm just speechless.

Would love to be around to see this but when customer service tells me tough luck. On my two V16 gold outlaw style swords which now look like complete *** I will be un-subbing and in-installing because that was just *** way to handle their mistake to begin with.

susmitds

acw37162 wrote: »

I'm really hoping to see more variety among stamina weapons and not just everyone using 2H, which will probably consist of 2H getting neefed somewhat.

Templars need a class skill that gives them major brutality and major sorcery to allow freedom in skill line choices.

Stamina sorcs need a lot of love, because their design is magic giving them utility. There needs to be a magic based skill that gives them magor savagery/major prophecy and a version of overload that is based off weapon damage and stamina. Overload could be the skill that while slotted gives major savagery.

Crit surge should imbue your attacks with lightening damage while active and the stamina morph of thundering presence should scale off mighty and not elemental expert.

Silver leash needs to work like a gap closer 100% of the time if activated twice

The DW passives need some work and I would like to throwing dagger or at least a morph of it reworked completely to be have an effect like grim focus.

I think we might see weapon ultimates.

The dragon Knjght stamina morphs dealing poison damage while bothering to some would be an awesome change that gets to huge CP buff.

Stamina Night Blades, I don't even know what to say. Hardest hitting most survivable will be indirectly buffed by any positive changes to stamina. I'm just speechless.

Would love to be around to see this but when customer service tells me tough luck. On my two V16 gold outlaw style swords which now look like complete *** I will be un-subbing and in-installing because that was just *** way to handle their mistake to begin with.

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Stamina would be much better balanced in PvP if...

1) There was a ward similar in size and function to Harness Magicka but that absorbed Stamina instead. Maybe Bone Shield could be upgraded to do this?

2) There were enchants for weapons that raised spell power like the ones that already exist for weapon power. Same thing goes for the penetration enchants.

3) There was a magicka based form of "break free" that could be activated WHILE the caster was CC'd. There needs to be a magicka dodge roll, too.

4) There were spammable instant damage spells as good as Surprise Attack available for all classes, especially Sorcs

How does any of that do anything for stamina besides the first point?

All my points are designed to balance stamina with magicka, which sorely needs to be done. Perhaps you think that balance means buffs only? LOL, please! Stamina builds, especially NBs, are still OP as #@&%, even after the Thieves Guild rebalance of the Champion System. Gap closer spam is as bad as it ever was, and now there are all these guys who can Shuffle-dodge 5 Frags or Overloads in a row.

Lets talk about PvE first. Consider VMA as the test of which class is really better.

These Values are made for the current Thieves Guild Patch

Stamina Dragonknight - Around 35k max DPS
Stamina Nightblade - Around 26k max DPS
Stamina Templar - Around 29k max DPS
Stamina Sorcerer - Around 23k max DPS
Magicka Dragonknight - Around 39k max DPS
Magicka Nightblade - Around 42k max DPS
Magicka Templar - Around 38k max DPS
Magicka Sorcerer - Around 43k max DPS

The values are so mainly because Stamina sustain does not allow for constant spamming of abilities while maintaining mobility and CC breaks, unlike Magicka builds who enjoy great sustain and stamina AoEs like Steel Tornado and Acid Spray costs a lot compared to Magicka AoEs.

Stop destroying PvE for PvErs by trying to balance everything in respect to PvP, dammit.

Now let's get to PvP.

Stamina Nightblades are the best gankers, sure, but in every other situation, other classes can potentially outperform them.

I will say it outright, if you can't beat stamina nightblades (or any other stamina build for that matter) as a magicka build, you are probably doing something wrong. Magicka DKs' DoTs are now pretty lethal to Stamina NBs due to loss of the easy purge of Dark Cloak. Magic Sorcs will beat Stam NBs anyday with Shield-stacking. Magicka Templars got far better defense and heals and more options than any stamina build. And as for magicka NBs, they got Sap Essence and Infi-Cloaking. And for all this I did not, yet, consider Proxi Det. and VD, which make magicka builds OP in PvP. Stam NBs also got heavily hit with the new reveal mechanics. All stamina builds, especially stam NBs and stamplars, rely a lot on Crits for damage which is totally useless against shields.

Arthur_Spoonfondle

Obsessing with balance is leading to homogenization of character types and making MMOs boring as Hell (with the heat turned down to 20 Celsius). Keep going and player character choice, when making a new alt, will be as important as it is in Rift, the king of homogenization, where everything from warrior to mage, is equally effective and capable of playing all roles, BORING!