What is your opinion on Stamsorc?

Stannum · April 2016

I think Stamsorcs are just fine

I have DW-bar to clear swarms of trash mobs very quickly with tornado. DW passive has good synergy with encase immobilisation or streak stun. End every sorc skill sloted adds to weapon dmg, and the largest stamina pool...

Autolycus · April 2016

Maybe not a buff, just more variety

Zernificus wrote: »

@Autolycus - Cheers pal. Just never really done sorc DW before so that gives me an idea of where to start. More concerned with hearing from players who enjoy their playstyle rather than being a paragon of efficiency. Laughs > Peak performance oh yeh. Heck I run willows on my bosmer so I can run food + wpn damage enchants - probably a dumb idea but I always try to balance sustain with damage. Like those long skirmish fights in pvp

Yuppers, I hear ya. I play my stam sorc almost purely out of enjoyment. I can do pretty good damage with him, but I am missing a few pieces of gear to really "perfect" his build to optimize him for damage. I really like the playstyle, and DW is much easier to sustain. I was using 2H vMA maul with Kena instead of Mephala before, and DW is night and day easier to sustain. Gotta say though, coming from sustaining Kena, kinda makes me feel like I can sustain anything haha.

Vaoh · April 2016

Stamsorcs are one of the weakest classes and need a major buff

Stamina Sorceror has a few strengths it doesn't get credit for. Boundless Storm provides reliable, great duration Major Expedition, plus uses Magicka. Streak provides a usefl Stun/escape supplement to running w/ Boundless Storm.

What a Stamina Sorc REALLY needs to be perfectly on par with the other 7 specs, is for:
1) Crystal Shards morph: Crystal Blast needs to become Stamina based, and have its function completely change. Must be very good for sustained D
2) Surge needs to be buffed a lot AND provide healing against damage shields. This buff means eDoTs need to count.

There you go!

Stam Sorc is now 100% viable and as strong as the other classes. Quite simple!

covenant_merchant · April 2016

Stamsorcs are one of the weakest classes and need a major buff

Stamsorc can actually pull decent damage in PVE with dual wield and bow (volley + poison injection dot).
My main issue is with its efficiency in PVP though. I play a stamsorc, and really, compared to other passives and class skills, ours are mostly useless.
Even the skills and passives that are supposed to be useful on a stamsorc have their problems:

Daedric Protection passive: increases the health and stamina recovery by 20% with a Daedric Summoning ability slotted. The thing is, in PVP for instance, on a magicka sorc, a typical setup would be to use Velocious Curse on one bar, and Hardened Ward on the other to get the bonuses from this passive on both bars (and both abilities are useful in PVP). On the contrary, on a stamina sorc, unless you want to play with a clannfear, the only useful skill is bound armaments, and you can have decent max pools without it at any rate. So it just ends up eating 1 slot per bar, and limits your choice of skills. It would've been an awesome passive if only it didn't have the "with an ability slotted" requirement. As it is, in PVE - bound armaments is a useful, in PVP not necessarily.
Expert Mage passive: increases spell damage and weapon damage by 2% with each Sorcerer ability slotted. That does sound good in theory, if only stamsorcs had any useful Sorcerer abilities to begin with. (You can slot boundless storm/thundering presence of course, but your choices are still quite limited). Also, all these abilities cost magicka, so if you want for example to slot/use several abilities, you would have to go for tri-stat food or drink, which would lower your overall pools.
Unholy Knowledge passive: reduces magicka and stamina cost of abilities by 5% - no problem there.
Capacitator passive: increases magicka recovery by 10% - no problem either, though it's still magicka oriented.
Power Stone passive: reduces the cost of Ultimates by 15% - that's actually pretty good (though Templars have a similar passive too).
Crit Surge: is actually a problem in PVP. The heals simply do not suffice to sustain. Not to mention players who wear impenetrable gear, thus reducing the damage of your crits, and therefore healing even further. Also, with this skill, you are getting healed only on the off-chance that you crit. Naturally, you can optimize your crit chances, but Crit Surge is really only useful in PVE, where crit is love and life. In PVP tbh, you should rather play with Rally instead (which forces you to use a 2h, and be tempted to use Wrecking Blow, and get that much more hate). Of course, the 2h could be your buff bar, and you could play it classy with 1h-shield, but seriously, given the passives that a stamsorc has compared to other classes (e.g.: templar passive that increases the damage of melee attacks you can block), wrecking blow simply is the easiest way.
Streak: yes, it can be nice, but you can't use it as often as a magicka sorc can. Also, try finding space for it on your bars with Bound Armaments on -_- Really, you'll find it quite difficult.

Moral of this comment since it's getting quite long: overall, the passives are magicka-oriented and suck, and even those that are supposed to be for stamina end up benefiting magicka sorcs more (see curse + hardened ward). The skills all cost magicka (thundering presence really is bad compared to the magicka morph as it drains your stamina in seconds if you want to benefit from the Major Expedition bonus).
So yeah, I'm still hoping that one day, stamsorcs will be as viable as other stamina classes in PVP (yes, they are inferior to stamplars as a rule). But then again, I'm also hoping for a lag-free PvP, where you wouldn't get zerged everytime you try to take a resource, so I might just be delusional.

Emma_Overload · April 2016

Stamsorcs are one of the weakest classes and need a major buff

Cryptical wrote: »

I think that the stamina-focused sorcerer is the poster model for "just because it can be created does not mean the developers must make it capable in all aspects."

Classes have strengths... And weaknesses. If you sign on to a sorcerer, you are signing on to having strength in magic, AND to having a weakness in stamina. It's called min-maxing. Go for the max in category A and there will be the corresponding min in category B.

You don't see culinary masters crying over being less capable at football, but there are examples of players of sorcerers QQ over being less capable at sword swinging.

When the game launched, stam sorcs weren't weaker than magicka sorcs... at all. In fact, the experience of playing a stam sorc was almost identical to playing a magic sorc (mostly because the class magicka skills were so weak). All sorcs needed back then was Critical Surge and a bunch of skills from the weapon lines. The only big difference was stam builds had Evil Hunter on their bars instead of Inner Light.

greylox · April 2016

Stamsorcs are one of the weakest classes and need a major buff

Stamsorc is a f****** struggle.

mtwiggz · April 2016

Maybe not a buff, just more variety

Plays nearly the same as every other stamina class, minus stamina Nightblade. In which stamina Nightblade is the only class with a good spammable stamina attack to use in place of WB.

Many of the Sorc skills synergize well with Stamina. Would say they have quite a decent arsenal in the hands of someone experienced.

PhatGrimReaper · April 2016

Why no "Stam Sorcs are weak and rightly so" option?

Bandit1215 · April 2016

@PhatGrimReaper Well, fair question but remember that ZOS sold this game as "play whatever, however you want"

Vangy · April 2016

Maybe not a buff, just more variety

1. Crit surge is not reliable because shields cant be crit. Honestly I think shields should just work like regular health in the sense that all the resistances applied to the player should apply to the shields and should be able to get crit. No reason to give people free crit immunity while running around in 7 divines gear. Fix that and crit surge will be fine.

2. Tweak the duration of thundering presence.

Do these and stamsorc is fine. No need for stamFrag or stam overload. Stamsorcs of capable of sick weapon power due to sorc passives and can heal of crit very relaibly (if crit surge is fixed). Ive seen stamSorc Wws running around with 5k+ weapon power which is pretty insane. Stamfrags/stamOverload makes just about the same sense as a stamwhip or a stamWings or stamWard or stamSoultether

acw37162 · April 2016

Stamsorcs are one of the weakest classes and need a major buff

Fun

Needs a lot of work.

Because of their design there needs to be a skill from the class skill line hat gives major savagery/prophecy and a passive that grants minor savagery/prophecy. Currently these buffs are only attainable through potions or outside the class skill lines which totally kills the one great passive stam sorcs have for increasing weapon or spell damage.

Thundering presence stamina morph needs to be changed to be scaled off might and shout last six seconds for the extended duration and major expidition buff.

(Side note with the changes to major expidition all the buffs that grants should be six seconds magica or stamina)

Flurry and morphs should proc crit surge to be useful.

There should be a stamina/weapon damage version on overload that gives back stamina on hit and this could be the skill hat grants major savagery if slotted.

Crystal blast or the other morph of lightening fury should get a stamina morph

Bound armaments need to offer more of a reason to slot on two or three bars if you run overload.

I would also prefer one of restraining prison or mines to get a stamina morph to be useful

Crit surge should charge your weapons with lightening to give you access to lightening damage passive from storm calling.

Khenzy · April 2016

Stamsorcs are one of the weakest classes and need a major buff

PvP-wise, Stam Sorcs need 5 things to be competitive:

- Damage Shields need to be critable so Surge works on them.

- They need a stamina morph damage attack. A stamina morph to Crystal Shard.

- Bound Armaments needs to offer all of its current effects as a temporary buff instead of being a toggle. No "while slotted effect" as you would still need to slot it on multiple bars.

- Overload, being such a core part of the class, should have some kind of morph that benefits stamina users more.

- Some slight changes to passives to benefit stam users more.

bloodenragedb14_ESO · April 2016

buff it or do not, just do not mess with the resources the class skills currently use

they are called 'sorcerers' for a reason

This mmo is class based, which means you have a pretty good idea what your getting into just by the name of the class, Sorcerer does not imply a battle hardened warrior able to run for miles without stop, Honestly if that is what pops up when you think of the class sorcerer,i worry for you

if you want to have a stamina based character, then pick a class that is mostly stamina based.

ToRelax · April 2016

Stamsorcs are one of the weakest classes and need a major buff

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

buff it or do not, just do not mess with the resources the class skills currently use

they are called 'sorcerers' for a reason

This mmo is class based, which means you have a pretty good idea what your getting into just by the name of the class, Sorcerer does not imply a battle hardened warrior able to run for miles without stop, Honestly if that is what pops up when you think of the class sorcerer,i worry for you

if you want to have a stamina based character, then pick a class that is mostly stamina based.

It might very well be, as Oblivion, being the last class based TES game prior to ESO, portrayed them as Mages with a focus on stamina and heavy armor. And ESO itself claims to allow you to play the way you want. And spells like the initial Bound Armor and Surge support that claim. Doesn't seem far off to think a stamina Sorcerer playstyle would be supported.

bloodenragedb14_ESO · April 2016

ToRelax wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

buff it or do not, just do not mess with the resources the class skills currently use

they are called 'sorcerers' for a reason

This mmo is class based, which means you have a pretty good idea what your getting into just by the name of the class, Sorcerer does not imply a battle hardened warrior able to run for miles without stop, Honestly if that is what pops up when you think of the class sorcerer,i worry for you

if you want to have a stamina based character, then pick a class that is mostly stamina based.

It might very well be, as Oblivion, being the last class based TES game prior to ESO, portrayed them as Mages with a focus on stamina and heavy armor. And ESO itself claims to allow you to play the way you want. And spells like the initial Bound Armor and Surge support that claim. Doesn't seem far off to think a stamina Sorcerer playstyle would be supported.

the class only had one non magic skill, which was heavy armor, everything else was taken up by the schools of magic, that use magicka as a resource for casting, not stamina

The sorcerer is still a mage, it still uses magicka, as thus my arguement is still wholly valid

bloodenragedb14_ESO · April 2016

Ill tell you what, you dig into lore, you find combat spells that use stamina, barring eso, you find enought to make a viable build, and ill conceed to you your point

Steel_Brightblade · April 2016

Maybe not a buff, just more variety

Why would they need to be combat spells? I would called enhanced strength, stamina speed combat buffs and would cost magic but would they add the sorcerer I'm performing magic? No they would make him a very formidable fighter. That's kind of how I see the stamina sorcerer use magic to buff, weapons to kill.

Mojomonkeyman · April 2016

Stamsorcs need a slight buff

I really loved the early implementation of surge making your magicka pool baiscally swap to stamina/wpn damage. It was so cool to run around in LA with 2h and combine spells & wpn attacks - and neither was gimped.

I want it back.

Browiseth · April 2016

Maybe not a buff, just more variety

Cryptical wrote: »

I think that the stamina-focused sorcerer is the poster model for "just because it can be created does not mean the developers must make it capable in all aspects."

Classes have strengths... And weaknesses. If you sign on to a sorcerer, you are signing on to having strength in magic, AND to having a weakness in stamina. It's called min-maxing. Go for the max in category A and there will be the corresponding min in category B.

You don't see culinary masters crying over being less capable at football, but there are examples of players of sorcerers QQ over being less capable at sword swinging.

Ignoring the fact that if you sign onto any of the classes you are signing onto a strength in magicka
and don't say dragonknight because it at least has options/competency

also your metaphor isn't relevant because this is a video game that can be designed and changed to fit what is needed

mrkurokishi · April 2016

Maybe not a buff, just more variety

Stam Sorcs play similar to a Stam DK in that they both rely on WB to deal damage if you go 2h. I do think that they should maybe change some skills to have stam morphs so that they can run the passives a bit more effectively, but as far as a spammable ability I think that would be a bit too much.

Cathexis · April 2016

Stamsorcs are one of the weakest classes and need a major buff

I've played a stam sorc since day one, and these are the issues I see (in no particular order). Bare in mind, I predominantly play PvP.

(1) No sustained multi target defense. Every other class/spec has a way to sustain damage from multiple targets. Cloak, healing, High health regen bonuses, shields. Every class, stam or mag and including mag sorcs, has some way to absorb or evade. DKs and Templars have powerful direct healing/tanking, Nightblade have cloak/teleport strike, mag sorcs have shields/mines/bolt.

(2) Significantly poorer damage output. We have a very limited array of burst damage utilities at our disposal.. Heroic Strike, Nado, and Wrecking Blow are basically your go to damage dealers, with overload, werewolf, meteor, and/or soul strike to back it up. I suppose also batswam although an experienced player isn't really threatened by bats.

(3) Too many buffs to cast/Not enough class based standardized buffs/One Slot Short. I am always one slot short for all the necessary utilities a class needs so you always have to sacrifice something critical or work it into your overload bar. We also have the fewest standardized buffs among class skills (by a huge margin) and our buff rotation is about 3 skills more than any other class has to worry about.

scorpiodog · April 2016

Stamsorcs are one of the weakest classes and need a major buff

All three skill lines for Sorcerors are Magica based, so Stamsorc is basically a class that doesn't use it's major skill lines?

Cathexis · April 2016

Stamsorcs are one of the weakest classes and need a major buff

scorpiodog wrote: »

All three skill lines for Sorcerors are Magica based, so Stamsorc is basically a class that doesn't use it's major skill lines?

This is pretty accurate.

Cathexis · April 2016

Stamsorcs are one of the weakest classes and need a major buff

Continuing on, as I had to break from writing for a moment, I also wanted to add a few suggestions I have in the past made in the countless stamina sorc summit threads that crop up in the pts forum every 6 months it seems like.

(1) Make defensive rune affect 4 targets per cast, apply to cc immune targets (although they would still be cc immune to it) and apply the 8% passive healing bonus. In my experience defensive rune is the counterpart to DK flaps, which arguably are the class equivalents of both defensive stance morphs. As a PvP utility, defensive rune is great, and even does ok against multiple targets, but the constant need to recast it means you have to reapply it instead of casting other things. This would provide shielding against attacks from multiple targets, forcing either a long term CC or a stamina break every 4 seconds (accounting for immunity), and provide regularly sustained healing bursts when being repeatedly struck. This could be coupled with a morph of daedric mines that has a seriously reduced magicka cost (1.5k~), instant arming, and increased base damage (say 6-7k) to provide sustainable defense against multiple targets.

(2) Make bound armaments offer a controlled burst attack as it's active cast. It is currently the only toggle without an active cast, and would free up a skill slot and reduce dependence on weapon skill lines. Do NOT make it random % proc based, procs are not a controlled, reliable source of damage. It could be based on incoming damage, or at the very least like shards where you cast other stamina abilities to process an instant attack. The damage has to be on par with a strong offensive spammable that we currently already use, like Wrecking blow.

(3) Balance the god damn standardized major/minor buffs across class skills and passives. Go have a look at how many every class has over sorcs.

These are only suggestions. The critical issue isn't implenting these, it's resolving the 3 problems I stated earlier.

acw37162 · April 2016

Stamsorcs are one of the weakest classes and need a major buff

Would like to see Bound Armaments left as toggle with a heavy enlists put on overload bar utilization.

Which means a morph of overload that scales off weapon damage and gives back stamina. Either overload or Bound Armaments should give major savagery buf.

Lastly I would like to see a grim focus type interaction added to bound armaments, where being hit with 5 attacks triggers static bomb which last a certain amount of times and detonates or detonates on activation.

Cronopoly · April 2016

Stamsorcs need a slight buff

Cryptical wrote: »

I think that the stamina-focused sorcerer is the poster model for "just because it can be created does not mean the developers must make it capable in all aspects."

Classes have strengths... And weaknesses. If you sign on to a sorcerer, you are signing on to having strength in magic, AND to having a weakness in stamina. It's called min-maxing. Go for the max in category A and there will be the corresponding min in category B.

I hear you but that doesn't pan out across the board. DK's can (Tank and DPS) both stam and magicka.

NB's jeesh yeah you know it. They can be the strongest Magicka burst build in the game as well as completely solid with Stam builds.

Templars the same. Magicka or Stam, take your pick.

Sorc's? They have Magicka DPS, Resto Heals the same as others of course, and arguably unreliable pets good for PVE solo farming only. No stamina class skills to write home about and plenty of class skills no one in their right mind EVER uses as they are considered GIMPED morphs.

Sparky617 · April 2016

Stamsorcs need a slight buff

I just want to have more stamina versions of our of class skills, as well as, more group utility. I truly want crystal frag, Velocious curse, endless fury, and the crystal CC skill that's a frontal cone.....I forget what its called since I haven't used it since 1.5

Aquanova · April 2016

I think Stamsorcs are just fine

Stam sorcs do not need a buff. If you think so, then your probably playing one and don't know how to use it or, your trolling.

ZOS knows the class is OP as hell. Stam version is just fine as it is.

NativeJoe · April 2016

Stamsorcs are one of the weakest classes and need a major buff

Stam sorcs have like no class abilities on their bar... They need something besides just bound armaments. lol

Mojomonkeyman · April 2016

Stamsorcs need a slight buff

Aquanova wrote: »

Stam sorcs do not need a buff. If you think so, then your probably playing one and don't know how to use it or, your trolling.

ZOS knows the class is OP as hell. Stam version is just fine as it is.

Interesting to read your post, then your signature.