Stamina Balance in Dark Bros DLC!!!!

susmitds · April 2016

Can we get some clarification about what changes are being brought to stamina? And I don't get what needs changing in the Vampire Skill Line. Maybe change damage types of Fighter's Guild abilities.
For some reason, every time ZoS mentions balance, I feel like another build is going to get murdered.

Ghost-Shot · April 2016

The thing is stamina is already good, its just not OP anymore. They don't have the zerg busting tools that magicka has with prox and VD but the solution to that is really just VD needs to go and prox damage needs to toned down, and AOE caps need to go, a little more dynamic ult gen wouldn't hurt either. Other than that stamina is in a fine place.

susmitds · April 2016

From a PvE POV, stamina is way too inferior to magicka. Lack of stamina sustain makes stamina builds unable to compete with magicka builds in trials and arena content.

dodgehopper_ESO · April 2016

susmitds wrote: »

Can we get some clarification about what changes are being brought to stamina? And I don't get what needs changing in the Vampire Skill Line. Maybe change damage types of Fighter's Guild abilities.
For some reason, every time ZoS mentions balance, I feel like another build is going to get murdered.

I'd like to see Silver Leash be a proper chain pull (like DK). Drain is an awful skill. They've beaten Mist Form up badly. The Trap under-performs for its costs.

Emma_Overload · April 2016

Stamina would be much better balanced in PvP if...

1) There was a ward similar in size and function to Harness Magicka but that absorbed Stamina instead. Maybe Bone Shield could be upgraded to do this?

2) There were enchants for weapons that raised spell power like the ones that already exist for weapon power. Same thing goes for the penetration enchants.

3) There was a magicka based form of "break free" that could be activated WHILE the caster was CC'd. There needs to be a magicka dodge roll, too.

4) There were spammable instant damage spells as good as Surprise Attack available for all classes, especially Sorcs

Strider_Roshin · April 2016

susmitds wrote: »

Can we get some clarification about what changes are being brought to stamina? And I don't get what needs changing in the Vampire Skill Line. Maybe change damage types of Fighter's Guild abilities.
For some reason, every time ZoS mentions balance, I feel like another build is going to get murdered.

Bat Swarm could use a nerf in damage since you can attack as it's going off.

Zyle · April 2016

susmitds wrote: »

Can we get some clarification about what changes are being brought to stamina? And I don't get what needs changing in the Vampire Skill Line. Maybe change damage types of Fighter's Guild abilities.
For some reason, every time ZoS mentions balance, I feel like another build is going to get murdered.

I think they'll only be able to give broad responses atm, I'd wait until it gets a bit closer to PTS when things are more finalized. It's probably a lot of changes/tweaks.

mistermutiny89 · April 2016

Stamina is going to blow magicka out of the water next patch. That's their definition of balance.

Update a) magicka rules
Update b) stamina rules
Update c) magicka rules

You get the gist.

It's going to be a good laugh.

STEVIL · April 2016

susmitds wrote: »

Can we get some clarification about what changes are being brought to stamina? And I don't get what needs changing in the Vampire Skill Line. Maybe change damage types of Fighter's Guild abilities.
For some reason, every time ZoS mentions balance, I feel like another build is going to get murdered.

I expect in a living evolving online game that with each new major reset i have the opportunity to revisit my previous "de jour" faves and adapt and relearn to a new environment. its part of the fun, part of the challenge.

YMMV

STEVIL · April 2016

As far as vamp changes, some possibilities come to mind:
uptick for drain since its last cutback went too far IMO. My bet, it gets better heal.
possibly full five skills like a summons, maybe which allows everyone a possible pet option (hello trinimac valor)
possibly another round of if slotted vs not if slotted for boons and penalties (the slotted tango)

susmitds · April 2016

STEVIL wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Can we get some clarification about what changes are being brought to stamina? And I don't get what needs changing in the Vampire Skill Line. Maybe change damage types of Fighter's Guild abilities.
For some reason, every time ZoS mentions balance, I feel like another build is going to get murdered.

I expect in a living evolving online game that with each new major reset i have the opportunity to revisit my previous "de jour" faves and adapt and relearn to a new environment. its part of the fun, part of the challenge.

YMMV

Yeah, but the ZoS style of balance is usually too extreme. Either the balance is invisible or absolutely blown out of proportion.

Anti_Virus · April 2016

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

The thing is stamina is already good, its just not OP anymore. They don't have the zerg busting tools that magicka has with prox and VD but the solution to that is really just VD needs to go and prox damage needs to toned down, and AOE caps need to go, a little more dynamic ult gen wouldn't hurt either. Other than that stamina is in a fine place.

No stamina is NOT good we lack the resource sustain, survivability, and flexibility that you magic builds have.

As a stam build Im pretty much forced to go melee. The ONLY stam ranged option is the bow and it sucks when trying to main hand it plus I lose a significant amout of WD equipping it, but magic builds can play from range effectively without the range penalty(dual wield) and access to a plethora of heals and shields.

Proxy det and VD were huge band aid fixes to zerging adding a stam verion will just make this game deteriorate even more.

strikeback1247 · April 2016

We need a vampire lord ulti, now.

strikeback1247 · April 2016

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Stamina would be much better balanced in PvP if...

1) There was a ward similar in size and function to Harness Magicka but that absorbed Stamina instead. Maybe Bone Shield could be upgraded to do this?

2) There were enchants for weapons that raised spell power like the ones that already exist for weapon power. Same thing goes for the penetration enchants.

3) There was a magicka based form of "break free" that could be activated WHILE the caster was CC'd. There needs to be a magicka dodge roll, too.

4) There were spammable instant damage spells as good as Surprise Attack available for all classes, especially Sorcs

This is the perfect recipe for the return of Elder Robes Online.

Anti_Virus · April 2016

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Stamina would be much better balanced in PvP if...

1) There was a ward similar in size and function to Harness Magicka but that absorbed Stamina instead. Maybe Bone Shield could be upgraded to do this?

2) There were enchants for weapons that raised spell power like the ones that already exist for weapon power. Same thing goes for the penetration enchants.

3) There was a magicka based form of "break free" that could be activated WHILE the caster was CC'd. There needs to be a magicka dodge roll, too.

4) There were spammable instant damage spells as good as Surprise Attack available for all classes, especially Sorcs

No need for wards on stam builds we just need to evade/block more which has been nerfed(for good reason).

Now people are saying shuffle is an 'exploit' which is warranting another stam nerf. My NB just needs to avoid dmg and have decent heals OUTSIDE of 2h skill line.

Heavy armor builds just need to actually be HEAVY armor. On my DK I run 30K(buffed) spell resistance and get destroyed by sorcs due to penetration and nern stacking.

And I agree sorcs need a quick dps skill but at the cost of frags because that skill hits very hard and having both frags and a dps skill compareble to SA would break Sorcs.

HoloYoitsu · April 2016

Reverse Slice against groups. What more clarification do you need?

Pangnirtung · April 2016

mistermutiny89 wrote: »

Stamina is going to blow magicka out of the water next patch. That's their definition of balance.

Update a) magicka rules
Update b) stamina rules
Update c) magicka rules

You get the gist.

It's going to be a good laugh.

This has been happening since the end of beta.

This class overpowered. Nerf.

Now THAT class overpowered. Nerf.

Now the OTHER class overpowered. Nerf.

Now the LAST class overpowered. Nerf.

Rinse and repeat a dozen times w/both skill, classes and abilities.

Elevenstorm · April 2016

One thing I think would be nice is a passive in the bow and 2H that has a chance proc an instant snipe or wrecking blow that's empowered. Similar to how sorc's crystal frags work.

Cinbri · April 2016

Undert stamina balance ZOS means stamina will again become fotm, heil Sithis. Just prepare all your mats to craft stamina gear again.

Averya_Teira · April 2016

Omg... Please don't call it dark Bros...

susmitds · April 2016

Averya_Teira wrote: »

Omg... Please don't call it dark Bros...

That's the joke.

Ghost-Shot · April 2016

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

The thing is stamina is already good, its just not OP anymore. They don't have the zerg busting tools that magicka has with prox and VD but the solution to that is really just VD needs to go and prox damage needs to toned down, and AOE caps need to go, a little more dynamic ult gen wouldn't hurt either. Other than that stamina is in a fine place.

No stamina is NOT good we lack the resource sustain, survivability, and flexibility that you magic builds have.

As a stam build Im pretty much forced to go melee. The ONLY stam ranged option is the bow and it sucks when trying to main hand it plus I lose a significant amout of WD equipping it, but magic builds can play from range effectively without the range penalty(dual wield) and access to a plethora of heals and shields.

Proxy det and VD were huge band aid fixes to zerging adding a stam verion will just make this game deteriorate even more.

I mean if you don't do well playing melee maybe a magicka build would fit you better, and not all magicka bulids can dual wield from range, for example without a destro staff (same damage loss as a bow) I'm forced into melee yet I lack the ability to tank in melee range like a stam build can, with a sword and board on my stam DK i could block almost indefinitely. And IMO a sorc is also pretty lackluster with dual wield because they lack spammable dps without crushing shock.

Svalinn · April 2016

"Super Dark Bros 2"

Burning_Talons · April 2016

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Can we get some clarification about what changes are being brought to stamina? And I don't get what needs changing in the Vampire Skill Line. Maybe change damage types of Fighter's Guild abilities.
For some reason, every time ZoS mentions balance, I feel like another build is going to get murdered.

Bat Swarm could use a nerf in damage since you can attack as it's going off.

You can attack while standard is up, and its a DoT meaning it can be avoided

EsoRecon · April 2016

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

The thing is stamina is already good, its just not OP anymore. They don't have the zerg busting tools that magicka has with prox and VD but the solution to that is really just VD needs to go and prox damage needs to toned down, and AOE caps need to go, a little more dynamic ult gen wouldn't hurt either. Other than that stamina is in a fine place.

ok so either nerf magicka or buff stam

EsoRecon · April 2016

mistermutiny89 wrote: »

Stamina is going to blow magicka out of the water next patch. That's their definition of balance.

Update a) magicka rules
Update b) stamina rules
Update c) magicka rules

You get the gist.

It's going to be a good laugh.

hopefully, im sick of all those assholee magic nbs ganking me with the det/tether combo

Ghost-Shot · April 2016

EsoRecon wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

The thing is stamina is already good, its just not OP anymore. They don't have the zerg busting tools that magicka has with prox and VD but the solution to that is really just VD needs to go and prox damage needs to toned down, and AOE caps need to go, a little more dynamic ult gen wouldn't hurt either. Other than that stamina is in a fine place.

ok so either nerf magicka or buff stam

I clearly stated VD needs to go and prox needs to be toned down, but stam doesn't need a ton of buffs, a bit of sustain sure but steel tornado hitting for 10K+ was never balanced compared to impulse hitting for 5 or 6k, wrecking blow hitting for 12-15k while crushing shock would hit for 6 or 7k(combing all 3 hits). I think most stam users right now only feel underpowered because they are suffering from 1.6 DK syndrome, they went from broken as *** to reasonable and that's difficult to adjust to, trust me I get it, I rolled a DK at launch and didn't level an alt till the 1.6 pts patch notes dropped.

Ra'Shtar · April 2016

Can we not call it Dark Bros, it makes it sound like a cheesy vampire movie about 2 black vampires who are brothers and fight for a hot human girl....

Oreyn_Bearclaw · April 2016

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Stamina would be much better balanced in PvP if...

1) There was a ward similar in size and function to Harness Magicka but that absorbed Stamina instead. Maybe Bone Shield could be upgraded to do this?

2) There were enchants for weapons that raised spell power like the ones that already exist for weapon power. Same thing goes for the penetration enchants.

3) There was a magicka based form of "break free" that could be activated WHILE the caster was CC'd. There needs to be a magicka dodge roll, too.

4) There were spammable instant damage spells as good as Surprise Attack available for all classes, especially Sorcs

You just proposed to balance stamina by buffing magic in 3/4 of your points.

Pangnirtung · April 2016

Maybe because I don't PVP to me balance is just fine when I PVE and I have play stamina builds alongside magic builds?

Ghost-Shot · April 2016

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Stamina would be much better balanced in PvP if...

1) There was a ward similar in size and function to Harness Magicka but that absorbed Stamina instead. Maybe Bone Shield could be upgraded to do this?

2) There were enchants for weapons that raised spell power like the ones that already exist for weapon power. Same thing goes for the penetration enchants.

3) There was a magicka based form of "break free" that could be activated WHILE the caster was CC'd. There needs to be a magicka dodge roll, too.

4) There were spammable instant damage spells as good as Surprise Attack available for all classes, especially Sorcs

How does any of that do anything for stamina besides the first point?