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ZOS fix the shuffle stacking
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khele23eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So... does shuffle stacking work in PvE too?QuebraRegra wrote: »Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »So if ZOs fixes the shuffle stacking can they fix the shield stacking problem too then ? No ? Then leave shuffle how it is divines know stamina users need all the help they can get.
Stacking dodge chance is a bug. Stacking shields is not. Though I'm not denying that it is stupid.
and animation canceling is intentional in a system where delays to cast is part of the balance mechanism which can be ignored.
STUPID.. with assertions of working as intended.
If you are implying abilities with a cast time can be animation cancelled to ignore the cast time, you don't understand animation cancelling enough to comment on it. You cannot animation cancel wrecking blow or snipe to be instant abilities, for example. Too many people think they understand animation cancelling just off the name when they don't really know anything. Cancelling doesn't let you ignore or negate an animation sequence, the name isn't entirely accurate. It's more like cancelling removes the 'fluff' in between casts to make abilities hit as soon as they possibly can within the established cast time of the skill.
Did he say cast times? He said delays to cast. Completing an animation = delay. I tend to agree with him. The established cast time should include the full skill animation. Otherwise, why the f... would you even spend money to make those animations in the first place? Also they provide a nice balancing tool. Something hits harder, but the animation takes longer to play (or not... its up to the devs but the option is there).Edited by khele23eb17_ESO on April 21, 2016 4:26PMP2P offered you 'hell yeah!' moments. F2P offers you 'thank god its over' moments.0 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think you all forgot that there is a chance to dodge an attack already. Question: How does adding 20% affect your overall Dodge chance?
Edit: Besides that, I have ran test concluding in around a 20% Dodge chance with shuffle. Also, roll dodging (at least on consoles) displays a dodge through combat text the same way a roll dodge and the brief period of dodge after a roll dodge demonstrates this.
I myself could care less, I use it for the snare remover and the unchained passive after break free, cheap snare remover combo. They can make it another effect or make it 10%. I still wouldn't care.Edited by Wuuffyy on April 21, 2016 4:47PMWuuffyy,
WW/berserker playstyle advocate (I play ALL classes proficiently in PvP outside of WW as well)
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-DM for questions0 -
CyrusArya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »So... does shuffle stacking work in PvE too?QuebraRegra wrote: »Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »So if ZOs fixes the shuffle stacking can they fix the shield stacking problem too then ? No ? Then leave shuffle how it is divines know stamina users need all the help they can get.
Stacking dodge chance is a bug. Stacking shields is not. Though I'm not denying that it is stupid.
and animation canceling is intentional in a system where delays to cast is part of the balance mechanism which can be ignored.
STUPID.. with assertions of working as intended.
If you are implying abilities with a cast time can be animation cancelled to ignore the cast time, you don't understand animation cancelling enough to comment on it. You cannot animation cancel wrecking blow or snipe to be instant abilities, for example. Too many people think they understand animation cancelling just off the name when they don't really know anything. Cancelling doesn't let you ignore or negate an animation sequence, the name isn't entirely accurate. It's more like cancelling removes the 'fluff' in between casts to make abilities hit as soon as they possibly can within the established cast time of the skill.
Did he say cast times? He said delays to cast. Completing an animation = delay. I tend to agree with him. The established cast time should include the full skill animation. Otherwise, why the f... would you even spend money to make those animations in the first place? Also they provide a nice balancing tool. Something hits harder, but the animation takes longer to play (or not... its up to the devs but the option is there).
No, you have no idea what you're talking about. Delays in cast=cast times. Thats literally the only thing that differentiates the cast sequence between abilities. Abilities are either instant or have a cast time, those are the only two options. Abilities that hit super hard do have a varying cast time and longer animation (WB, snipe, frags). Abilities that are instant are all...instant...across the board. Do you wanna argue the definition of instant? Cus if not, then I'm sure we can agree instant cast=skill take affect as soon as the button pressed. If we can agree on the definition of instant, then we can agree its irrelevant wether or not the full animation plays out from a mechanical aspect. Abilities that have a cast time are balanced by that cast time, which you cannot by pass with cancelling.0 -
QuebraRegra✭✭✭✭✭
✭QuebraRegra wrote: »Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »So if ZOs fixes the shuffle stacking can they fix the shield stacking problem too then ? No ? Then leave shuffle how it is divines know stamina users need all the help they can get.
Stacking dodge chance is a bug. Stacking shields is not. Though I'm not denying that it is stupid.
and animation canceling is intentional in a system where delays to cast is part of the balance mechanism which can be ignored.
STUPID.. with assertions of working as intended.
If you are implying abilities with a cast time can be animation cancelled to ignore the cast time, you don't understand animation cancelling enough to comment on it. You cannot animation cancel wrecking blow or snipe to be instant abilities, for example. Too many people think they understand animation cancelling just off the name when they don't really know anything. Cancelling doesn't let you ignore or negate an animation sequence, the name isn't entirely accurate. It's more like cancelling removes the 'fluff' in between casts to make abilities hit as soon as they possibly can within the established cast time of the skill.
I should L2P right? LOL!
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/85594/major-combat-flaw-animation-canceling-damage-stacking-devs-please-look-here
"it's a feature, not a bug"
Edited by QuebraRegra on April 21, 2016 5:47PM0 -
CyrusArya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭QuebraRegra wrote: »QuebraRegra wrote: »Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »So if ZOs fixes the shuffle stacking can they fix the shield stacking problem too then ? No ? Then leave shuffle how it is divines know stamina users need all the help they can get.
Stacking dodge chance is a bug. Stacking shields is not. Though I'm not denying that it is stupid.
and animation canceling is intentional in a system where delays to cast is part of the balance mechanism which can be ignored.
STUPID.. with assertions of working as intended.
If you are implying abilities with a cast time can be animation cancelled to ignore the cast time, you don't understand animation cancelling enough to comment on it. You cannot animation cancel wrecking blow or snipe to be instant abilities, for example. Too many people think they understand animation cancelling just off the name when they don't really know anything. Cancelling doesn't let you ignore or negate an animation sequence, the name isn't entirely accurate. It's more like cancelling removes the 'fluff' in between casts to make abilities hit as soon as they possibly can within the established cast time of the skill.
I should L2P right? LOL!
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/85594/major-combat-flaw-animation-canceling-damage-stacking-devs-please-look-here
"it's a feature, not a bug"
I never said that did I? You should learn to understand concepts first before making invalid comments on game mechanics. That thread doesn't dispel my argument. Linking that thread is irrelevant, it's obviously a controversial topic. But balancing around cast times and animation cancelling are not mutually exclusive. It's not a feature or a bug, it's the natural reality of a fast paced action oriented game without cool downs on skills.0 -
QuebraRegra✭✭✭✭✭
✭QuebraRegra wrote: »QuebraRegra wrote: »Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »So if ZOs fixes the shuffle stacking can they fix the shield stacking problem too then ? No ? Then leave shuffle how it is divines know stamina users need all the help they can get.
Stacking dodge chance is a bug. Stacking shields is not. Though I'm not denying that it is stupid.
and animation canceling is intentional in a system where delays to cast is part of the balance mechanism which can be ignored.
STUPID.. with assertions of working as intended.
If you are implying abilities with a cast time can be animation cancelled to ignore the cast time, you don't understand animation cancelling enough to comment on it. You cannot animation cancel wrecking blow or snipe to be instant abilities, for example. Too many people think they understand animation cancelling just off the name when they don't really know anything. Cancelling doesn't let you ignore or negate an animation sequence, the name isn't entirely accurate. It's more like cancelling removes the 'fluff' in between casts to make abilities hit as soon as they possibly can within the established cast time of the skill.
I should L2P right? LOL!
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/85594/major-combat-flaw-animation-canceling-damage-stacking-devs-please-look-here
"it's a feature, not a bug"
I never said that did I? You should learn to understand concepts first before making invalid comments on game mechanics. That thread doesn't dispel my argument. Linking that thread is irrelevant, it's obviously a controversial topic. But balancing around cast times and animation cancelling are not mutually exclusive. It's not a feature or a bug, it's the natural reality of a fast paced action oriented game without cool downs on skills.
Right.. "learn to understand"? Is that the new L2P?
Of course it's controversial as you say, be cause it's consequential! You attempt to dismiss it by obfuscating the language relating to how it works. By your dismissal I assume you rely heavily on it?
There should be cool downs, but by an exploit of a design, they can be canceled. First identified as a bug, then labeled a "feature" when they couldn't address it.0 -
CyrusArya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭QuebraRegra wrote: »QuebraRegra wrote: »QuebraRegra wrote: »Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »So if ZOs fixes the shuffle stacking can they fix the shield stacking problem too then ? No ? Then leave shuffle how it is divines know stamina users need all the help they can get.
Stacking dodge chance is a bug. Stacking shields is not. Though I'm not denying that it is stupid.
and animation canceling is intentional in a system where delays to cast is part of the balance mechanism which can be ignored.
STUPID.. with assertions of working as intended.
If you are implying abilities with a cast time can be animation cancelled to ignore the cast time, you don't understand animation cancelling enough to comment on it. You cannot animation cancel wrecking blow or snipe to be instant abilities, for example. Too many people think they understand animation cancelling just off the name when they don't really know anything. Cancelling doesn't let you ignore or negate an animation sequence, the name isn't entirely accurate. It's more like cancelling removes the 'fluff' in between casts to make abilities hit as soon as they possibly can within the established cast time of the skill.
I should L2P right? LOL!
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/85594/major-combat-flaw-animation-canceling-damage-stacking-devs-please-look-here
"it's a feature, not a bug"
I never said that did I? You should learn to understand concepts first before making invalid comments on game mechanics. That thread doesn't dispel my argument. Linking that thread is irrelevant, it's obviously a controversial topic. But balancing around cast times and animation cancelling are not mutually exclusive. It's not a feature or a bug, it's the natural reality of a fast paced action oriented game without cool downs on skills.
Right.. "learn to understand"? Is that the new L2P?
Of course it's controversial as you say, be cause it's consequential! You attempt to dismiss it by obfuscating the language relating to how it works. By your dismissal I assume you rely heavily on it?
There should be cool downs, but by an exploit of a design, they can be canceled. First identified as a bug, then labeled a "feature" when they couldn't address it.
I'm not dismissing anything, I directly refuted your invalid point and you've failed to address or argue against it. Hence, learn to understand concepts before you make claims regarding them. That should just be common sense, but lots of forums goers love to mouth off about things they hardly understand.
Edit: just so you're clear what the point is, balancing skills around cast times and animation cancelling are not mutually exclusive, because abilities either have cast times that can't be avoided or are instant cast. That's all we are discussing here, as your original claim was that somehow animation cancelling invalidates balance based in cast times. Got a counter argument? I'd love to hear it.Edited by CyrusArya on April 21, 2016 7:20PM0 -
QuebraRegra✭✭✭✭✭
✭QuebraRegra wrote: »QuebraRegra wrote: »QuebraRegra wrote: »Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »So if ZOs fixes the shuffle stacking can they fix the shield stacking problem too then ? No ? Then leave shuffle how it is divines know stamina users need all the help they can get.
Stacking dodge chance is a bug. Stacking shields is not. Though I'm not denying that it is stupid.
and animation canceling is intentional in a system where delays to cast is part of the balance mechanism which can be ignored.
STUPID.. with assertions of working as intended.
If you are implying abilities with a cast time can be animation cancelled to ignore the cast time, you don't understand animation cancelling enough to comment on it. You cannot animation cancel wrecking blow or snipe to be instant abilities, for example. Too many people think they understand animation cancelling just off the name when they don't really know anything. Cancelling doesn't let you ignore or negate an animation sequence, the name isn't entirely accurate. It's more like cancelling removes the 'fluff' in between casts to make abilities hit as soon as they possibly can within the established cast time of the skill.
I should L2P right? LOL!
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/85594/major-combat-flaw-animation-canceling-damage-stacking-devs-please-look-here
"it's a feature, not a bug"
I never said that did I? You should learn to understand concepts first before making invalid comments on game mechanics. That thread doesn't dispel my argument. Linking that thread is irrelevant, it's obviously a controversial topic. But balancing around cast times and animation cancelling are not mutually exclusive. It's not a feature or a bug, it's the natural reality of a fast paced action oriented game without cool downs on skills.
Right.. "learn to understand"? Is that the new L2P?
Of course it's controversial as you say, be cause it's consequential! You attempt to dismiss it by obfuscating the language relating to how it works. By your dismissal I assume you rely heavily on it?
There should be cool downs, but by an exploit of a design, they can be canceled. First identified as a bug, then labeled a "feature" when they couldn't address it.
I'm not dismissing anything, I directly refuted your invalid point and you've failed to address or argue against it. Hence, learn to understand concepts before you make claims regarding them. That should just be common sense, but lots of forums goers love to mouth off about things they hardly understand.
Edit: just so you're clear what the point is, balancing skills around cast times and animation cancelling are not mutually exclusive, because abilities either have cast times that can't be avoided or are instant cast. That's all we are discussing here, as your original claim was that somehow animation cancelling invalidates balance based in cast times. Got a counter argument? I'd love to hear it.
Either you con't understand the concept, or you didn't read the link? DO YOU UNDERSTAND animation canceling? There's a search tool if yer still confused.
You can increase the frequency at which you can attack via animation canceling.
Seems to me like yer mouthing off kid... Are we done here?Edited by QuebraRegra on April 21, 2016 9:53PM0