Would ESO be a better game without Champion Points?

Robbmrp · April 2016

So think about it...... Would we be better off or worse without Champion Points? What if the only progression after max level was achieved, was new skills and gear? Would this game be better off or worse in your opinion?

For my perspective, champion points have only seemed to divide the community more than anything else in the game. You either have them all or not enough. If Champion Points didn't exist we wouldn't have those unkillable people in the CP Campaigns that people are constantly calling for nerfs on. There would be no need for multiple Campaigns(CP or no CP), certain guilds wouldn't be recruiting based on peoples amount of CP as some currently are. I really couldn't care about that part of it as I PVP in Azura where CP doesn't matter anyway and mainly use trade guilds.

Progression wouldn't need to stop after you've hit max level. Instead of going into a CP route, you could continue to get more skill points to use on newer skills/passive abilities. People are calling for more skills/spells to use and change things up. Not just passives with new DLC's.

Wouldn't you rather have a whole new ability and cool effect instead of putting in a CP here and there that have such diminished returns? People want one handed skill lines, people want spell crafting as well. I for one would rather have a whole new ability to try out rather than putting in point after point for such an insignificant difference to my stats....

From what I've experienced and witnessed over the past year since Champion Points have been introduced, they don't feel like the right path for ESO.

STEVIL · April 2016

Answer from me is no.

As to skill pt advancement after say vet 16 etc, frankly its mostly illusory.

You got plenty of skill pts to fill out slots and passives for a number of builds by then and respecing is cheap. Its trivial to free up skill pts for new stuff by unspecing stuff obsolete in your new build.

Imx

Morimizo · April 2016

NO. More ways to improve a character, whether horizontally (like skills) or vertically (like levels) the better. Diversity makes the game interesting, and if you peel back all the layers of progress, you get FPSville.

WalkingLegacy · April 2016

Yes.

1% increases are not powerful, worthwhile things I care to do. It's an artificial hook.

TequilaFire · April 2016

No.
That being said more information from ZOS to the players that don't understand CP and what they do would help.
So many misconceptions and myths.

TequilaFire · April 2016

Double post.
#ZOSLAG

Marktoneth3 · April 2016

I love CP system.

Lucious90 · April 2016

I need to see it more on this as I am open, though I think it is stupid to get rid of the basically additional levels for a spec tree system.

I would prefer PvE gear and dungeon/Raid progression and PvP: a season similiar to the 30 and 7 day campaigns that offer the same thing but have Open world and BG/Arena

JadeNaria · April 2016

This question is more of an opinion based question asking for a "by preference" type answer.

I personally like the CP system because it gives me something to work towards after I have my gear. It reminds me of the Skill Points you were rewarded from the "feats" you completed in DC Universe Online. Except there it was more obvious with the benefits from the innates you gained. For example, in raids being a person with alot of Skill Points you most definitely would get a higher DPS and most likely be the last person alive to the point you could revive enough ppl to get the raid group back on its feet.

So in short, I like it. Would it be better without them? That really depends on the person.

nine9six · April 2016

I like the CP system. Earning (and spending) those points was fun to me. I never grinded for them, though.

EsoRecon · April 2016

Ehh I have mixed thoughts about the cp system.

WalkingLegacy · April 2016

Then new players hit 50, and get stuck behind a 160 CP cap for gear.

Can't wait to see Level 50 + '250 CP' to equip gear.

QuebraRegra · April 2016

I'm more intrigued about elements of the CP tress like increased resource drops, gold, and chest gear quality...

Unfortunately the combat balance affects are real.

Sausage · April 2016

It would take way too long to give good answer, I would have made different kind of CP-system myself, but I think ESO's PVP is so imbalanced, there needs to be somekind of advantage/power-grab. The question is though, why we need to raise CP system, I think no. Was CP-system worth the trouble? I think so, I guess it takes like 300 hour to reach cap, so thats nice timesink addition.

failkiwib16_ESO · April 2016

Before we even had Champion Points there were also plenty of unkillable people in Cyrodiil.

It's really an issue with how much experience and knowledge you have of the game, and the ability to put that experience and knowledge into action that determines your play.

I agree that CP system is a bit silly, however vet ranks and CP's were needed to compensate for the huge lack of content for PC players, while Zenimax was using resources to launch the game for consoles.

Sausage · April 2016

Sausage wrote: »

It would take way too long to give good answer, I would have made different kind of CP-system myself, but I think ESO's PVP is so imbalanced, there needs to be somekind of advantage/power-grab. The question is though, why we need to raise CP system, I think no. Was CP-system worth the trouble? I think so, I guess it takes like 300 hour to reach cap, so thats nice timesink addition.

My plan was to make CP-system so it makes weaker builds more viable and players can play the way they want, as it was advertised, but Zen decided to go with power-grab.

Sallington · April 2016

It WAS a better game without CPs.

1.6 is what created the stack one stat as high as possible meta, destroyed hybrid build by removing softcaps, and introduced ridiculous power creep with CPs

Sausage · April 2016

Sallington wrote: »

It WAS a better game without CPs.

1.6 is what created the stack one stat as high as possible meta, destroyed hybrid build by removing softcaps, and introduced ridiculous power creep with CPs

Without CP-system, people would whine theres nothing to do though.

WalkingLegacy · April 2016

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

Before we even had Champion Points there were also plenty of unkillable people in Cyrodiil.

It's really an issue with how much experience and knowledge you have of the game, and the ability to put that experience and knowledge into action that determines your play.

I agree that CP system is a bit silly, however vet ranks and CP's were needed to compensate for the huge lack of content for PC players, while Zenimax was using resources to launch the game for consoles.

Yes and CP doesn't solve your skill level. CP extrapolates that problem.

Like you said, they instituted it for a false hook. A progression system that doesn't really add meaningful progression.

Korah_Eaglecry · April 2016

I think the problem is that theres no way for the content to sort of scale to the CP the character has. So if you start a new character and youve got enough CP to actually start making a serious difference on the new character. Its going to breeze through the content.

Everything in the leveling zones below 50 was made with the intention of characters without CP tackling it.

Sallington · April 2016

Sausage wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

It WAS a better game without CPs.

1.6 is what created the stack one stat as high as possible meta, destroyed hybrid build by removing softcaps, and introduced ridiculous power creep with CPs

Without CP-system, people would whine theres nothing to do though.

If grinding XP is the only thing you're able to do end-game....yuck!!!

Kurimugann · April 2016

Maybe?
There's so many thing to put cp on, but not enough CP to get it all. Which is probably a good thing (501 cap, 167 each)

End game can be spend hunting down extra skyshards and mage guild books. and stronger gear/materials as you level up your crafting (which you need the skyshards for) and get further in the other faction content.
I can only see CP as another reason for people to be awful to others like "You did not put your CP in this so you should quit playing the game because I will tell everyone not to group with you because you will suck forever" I wish I was exaggerating...

emily3989 · April 2016

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Yes.

1% increases are not powerful, worthwhile things I care to do. It's an artificial hook.

I seem to be getting more than 1% on my chosen CP tree advancements. You can spend more than 1 point on each ya know.

Refuse2GrowUp · April 2016

Q: Would ESO be a better game without Champion Points?

A: No, but the forums would be a better place without so many opinions and the mountain of complaints.

Now, not saying OP is a complaint...more of a general observation

MacCait · April 2016

NO! Veteran ranks removed soon. If you remove CP as well, you have nothing to aim for.

I am already concerned for the logevity of the game! Couple days playing and you have a level 50 character... without Veteran Ranks and without Champion Points... then what? People will get bored.

The game needs something to continuously work towards. Thats why I don't think Veteran Rank removal is a good idea. Removing both would likely kill the game. In my opinion.

Tandor · April 2016

In my view the game would be worse off without champion points, but better off if they were character specific rather than account-wide.

WalkingLegacy · April 2016

emily3989 wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Yes.

1% increases are not powerful, worthwhile things I care to do. It's an artificial hook.

I seem to be getting more than 1% on my chosen CP tree advancements. You can spend more than 1 point on each ya know.

Obviously. But not all options give you a full percent either. You earn one point at a time. When You're capped and they open up more, you're gonna grind for that one point to increase your stat x amount.

kevlarto_ESO · April 2016

I think the CP system should have been more of a horizontal progression not a vertical one, I thin they should have supplemented things we have gave us some new things.

I never grinded for them thought that was kind of silly and a waste of time, but if that was your cup of tea knock yourself out grind away. I got mine just playing the game, I am locked in at the 501 and already have more than the 51 we will get to spend in the next update. I think in some ways since we don't have soft caps, they are worse for the game in other ways they are ok, nothing is perfect and everything can be over optimized in this game one way or another it seems.

failkiwib16_ESO · April 2016

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

Before we even had Champion Points there were also plenty of unkillable people in Cyrodiil.

It's really an issue with how much experience and knowledge you have of the game, and the ability to put that experience and knowledge into action that determines your play.

I agree that CP system is a bit silly, however vet ranks and CP's were needed to compensate for the huge lack of content for PC players, while Zenimax was using resources to launch the game for consoles.

Yes and CP doesn't solve your skill level. CP extrapolates that problem.

Like you said, they instituted it for a false hook. A progression system that doesn't really add meaningful progression.

Well it's due to lack of content that it was implemented, and now they can't take it away unless they replace it, so players don't feel they have lost time progressing in the game.
They're damned if they remove it, they're damned if they don't remove it

in regard to both champion points and veteran ranks.

Also another problem is, players who have waited and not level'ed their vet chars because they have waited for the vet rank removal. They will hit a wall, once they realize that they can not perform equally to well geared player with capped champion points.
Not everyone reads the forums or updates, so many players think that the removal of vet ranks = go from level 49 to 50 and be able to do everything in the game as good as anyone. - forgetting personal skill, experience, gear and actual levelling of skill lines and abilities.

If ZOS doesn't introduce new content for endgame players while they nerf the harder dungeons, then they might loose a lot of subscribers on that alone.

I suspect this update is going to be very messy >.<

emily3989 · April 2016

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

Before we even had Champion Points there were also plenty of unkillable people in Cyrodiil.

It's really an issue with how much experience and knowledge you have of the game, and the ability to put that experience and knowledge into action that determines your play.

I agree that CP system is a bit silly, however vet ranks and CP's were needed to compensate for the huge lack of content for PC players, while Zenimax was using resources to launch the game for consoles.

Yes and CP doesn't solve your skill level. CP extrapolates that problem.

Like you said, they instituted it for a false hook. A progression system that doesn't really add meaningful progression.

Well it's due to lack of content that it was implemented, and now they can't take it away unless they replace it, so players don't feel they have lost time progressing in the game.
They're damned if they remove it, they're damned if they don't remove it in regard to both champion points and veteran ranks.

Also another problem is, players who have waited and not level'ed their vet chars because they have waited for the vet rank removal. They will hit a wall, once they realize that they can not perform equally to well geared player with capped champion points.
Not everyone reads the forums or updates, so many players think that the removal of vet ranks = go from level 49 to 50 and be able to do everything in the game as good as anyone. - forgetting personal skill, experience, gear and actual levelling of skill lines and abilities.

If ZOS doesn't introduce new content for endgame players while they nerf the harder dungeons, then they might loose a lot of subscribers on that alone.

I suspect this update is going to be very messy >.<

With crafting bags and a few new cat skins, they will do just fine despite everything you mentioned. Just reality.

Curtdogg47 · April 2016

I like the CP's. it took a little time to understand which skills in CP system were more beneficial to my build. And which ones could wait to have points dumped into them. But once I got a plan down I think they are awesome!