MattT1988 wrote: »

Lord_Legion wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

There are two main solutions to improving server performance in Cyrodiil:

1. adjusting gameplay so players are unable to exceed the capabilities of the server; this should have been done two years ago.
2. investing in a technical solution.

Of course, a combination of the two may be implemented.

This is an issue of will, not ability. A world-class publisher such as Zenimax has the resources and talent to figure this out. The problem is that those things are not being applied to this problem.

It is clear that ZOS considers Cyrodiil to be a low priority and has, to this point, applied a minimal amount of resources to solving its issues.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler has been applying the "incremental patch" and "no silver bullet" lip service for a very long time now. To this point, it has been meaningless. Why should we now expect it to become meaningful?

Cyrodiil can be fixed if/when ZOS has the will to do so.

Every time I see someone blabber on about how ZOS doesnt care about Cyrodiil or how Cyrodiil is such a low priority I cant help but ignore absolutely everything else theyve said.

ZOS has consistently overhauled the balance of the game on the whim of the PvP community. We no longer have Tanks that block forever because of PvP. We no longer have Sorcs that can streak til Sythis comes calling. We now have a PvP set in game that targets players that group up. How the hell can you say that Cyrodiil is a low priority? Just because things dont fix themselves with a snap of a finger?

They aren't listening to the PVP community, they are listening to the PVE community that are getting rekt by PVPers

Nah I can't agree with that. I get the impression that if this were actually the case then they would have a reduced XP non-pvp Cyrodill and IC by now so those pve-ers can grind and quest in peace. Now I might be wrong about that but that's just impression I get.

Plus I'm yet to hear a pve-er complain about perma-blocking. I haven't met every pve-er out there but I'm just saying, the ones I met were all annoyed when blocking was nerfed.

This pve'ers blaming pvp-ers and visa versa for all our problems is a vicious cycle that in my opinion needs to stop.

Agreed.

As my memory recalls it; when they changed Stamina so that it doesn't regen while blocking, the PvP kiddos were all a twitter with glee, but the PvE players who never once asked for such a thing just had the very concept of running a Tank destroyed. Hell, I deleted a Tank character that I used to use in Group Dungeons all the time because I had no way to get his "Tankiness" back.

Can you still run a Tank? Sure, but the process to get it to work is complex and involved, and requires a ton of work to get it going, and it took weeks before the community figured out the process to get it to work even half as well as before the change.

This is just one example of Zeni listening to the PvP community, and making a change detrimental to the game.

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

MattT1988 wrote: »

Lord_Legion wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

There are two main solutions to improving server performance in Cyrodiil:

1. adjusting gameplay so players are unable to exceed the capabilities of the server; this should have been done two years ago.
2. investing in a technical solution.

Of course, a combination of the two may be implemented.

This is an issue of will, not ability. A world-class publisher such as Zenimax has the resources and talent to figure this out. The problem is that those things are not being applied to this problem.

It is clear that ZOS considers Cyrodiil to be a low priority and has, to this point, applied a minimal amount of resources to solving its issues.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler has been applying the "incremental patch" and "no silver bullet" lip service for a very long time now. To this point, it has been meaningless. Why should we now expect it to become meaningful?

Cyrodiil can be fixed if/when ZOS has the will to do so.

Every time I see someone blabber on about how ZOS doesnt care about Cyrodiil or how Cyrodiil is such a low priority I cant help but ignore absolutely everything else theyve said.

ZOS has consistently overhauled the balance of the game on the whim of the PvP community. We no longer have Tanks that block forever because of PvP. We no longer have Sorcs that can streak til Sythis comes calling. We now have a PvP set in game that targets players that group up. How the hell can you say that Cyrodiil is a low priority? Just because things dont fix themselves with a snap of a finger?

They aren't listening to the PVP community, they are listening to the PVE community that are getting rekt by PVPers

Nah I can't agree with that. I get the impression that if this were actually the case then they would have a reduced XP non-pvp Cyrodill and IC by now so those pve-ers can grind and quest in peace. Now I might be wrong about that but that's just impression I get.

Plus I'm yet to hear a pve-er complain about perma-blocking. I haven't met every pve-er out there but I'm just saying, the ones I met were all annoyed when blocking was nerfed.

This pve'ers blaming pvp-ers and visa versa for all our problems is a vicious cycle that in my opinion needs to stop.

Agreed.

As my memory recalls it; when they changed Stamina so that it doesn't regen while blocking, the PvP kiddos were all a twitter with glee, but the PvE players who never once asked for such a thing just had the very concept of running a Tank destroyed. Hell, I deleted a Tank character that I used to use in Group Dungeons all the time because I had no way to get his "Tankiness" back.

Can you still run a Tank? Sure, but the process to get it to work is complex and involved, and requires a ton of work to get it going, and it took weeks before the community figured out the process to get it to work even half as well as before the change.

This is just one example of Zeni listening to the PvP community, and making a change detrimental to the game.

Hear! Hear! And then there was the gall of some here that dismissed PVE player complaints on this matter as a 'L2P' issue. Some PVE (dungeon delving) guilds were destroyed by this change.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Suggestion: After DB is released and stable, let the devs make bigger changes than baby steps on the PTS; no doubt they have a few in mind already. Have a "kill the PTS" test night and specifically invite all the major PVP guilds, and other players are welcome as well.

Players want this fixed, too, and know how to replicate laggy conditions. Let us help.

Tryxus wrote: »

Good things come to those who wait...

Year 3 is the charm.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We've implemented some fixes for Cyrodiil performance in incremental patches, and though they are small, they are making it better. We also have some fixes going into the next big update, but as it's been stated in this thread, no one fix is going to be the "silver bullet" that fixes everything. What we don't want happening is we put in a whole bunch of potential fixes only to find that something ends up making the problem worse, then we have to backtrack.

We understand this has been frustrating, but appreciate your patience and understanding. Fixing the performance in Cyrodiil is still one of our highest priorities, and we are still actively working on it.

No, no they're not.

Edited: For the grammar Nazis.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We've implemented some fixes for Cyrodiil performance in incremental patches, and though they are small, they are making it better. We also have some fixes going into the next big update, but as it's been stated in this thread, no one fix is going to be the "silver bullet" that fixes everything. What we don't want happening is we put in a whole bunch of potential fixes only to find that something ends up making the problem worse, then we have to backtrack.

We understand this has been frustrating, but appreciate your patience and understanding. Fixing the performance in Cyrodiil is still one of our highest priorities, and we are still actively working on it.

And then just like last patch didn't want to put too much in that it will just bugged things out or make it worse. Oh well once Dark Brotherhood comes out they have to fix more things and then the ones before the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild and so on with previous patches that had been bugged the game.

Justice31st wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I'm sure the supporting attitudes they encounter on the forums will motivate them to continue their efforts to improve the performance for their customers.

Companies are motivated by money, not consumers feelings.

And yet they constantly add things said consumers feel they need and asked for.

Justice31st wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I'm sure the supporting attitudes they encounter on the forums will motivate them to continue their efforts to improve the performance for their customers.

Companies are motivated by money, not consumers feelings.

Unhappy consumers don't spend money on companies they are unhappy with.

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Thus; they need to do smaller fixes, gauge how those are affecting the PvP side of the game as a whole, make notes, and gear up larger fixes based on the effects of the smaller fixes.

That's just how coding and bug fixing works, especially in a large online situation.

They cannot just "shut off the Live server, wave a magic wand, and 'poof' problem fixed".

Theyre not 'gearing up large fixes' based on how the small fixes go. They're just doing a lot of small fixes.

Which is exactly what is done with situations like they're facing down.

Since the issues are caused by the crush of people on the PvP side, those cannot be fixed accurately on the Test Server because the issue can't be replicated. It's also for this same reason that someone else's comment about "just shut down the servers, fix it, then bring the servers back up" will never work.

So rather than make huge fixes that might very well actually make PvP unplayable (rather than the bit of lag that is there now), they need to do small fixes, push them live, then see what happens.

While I may or may not be wrong on Zeni gearing up for larger fixes (none of us really know what they have planned in their ongoing efforts to fix these issues), the people screaming or using their Twitchy scream-streams to call for "fix it NAU!!!1!!!1" or "shut it down, fix it, then bring it back!!", aren't helping Zenimax target any issues in any way.

The small fixes are the only way it will be fixed, and even then; these small fixes and tweaks will be a feature for the life of the game. That reality is in the very nature of MMO's since... ever.

rotaugen454 wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We've implemented some fixes for Cyrodiil performance in incremental patches, and though they are small, they are making it better. We also have some fixes going into the next big update, but as it's been stated in this thread, no one fix is going to be the "silver bullet" that fixes everything. What we don't want happening is we put in a whole bunch of potential fixes only to find that something ends up making the problem worse, then we have to backtrack.

We understand this has been frustrating, but appreciate your patience and understanding. Fixing the performance in Cyrodiil is still one of our highest priorities, and we are still actively working on it.

No, no there not.

they're

Oh sorry. I didn't know I was posting in an English online class.

Justice31st wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I'm sure the supporting attitudes they encounter on the forums will motivate them to continue their efforts to improve the performance for their customers.

Companies are motivated by money, not consumers feelings.

And yet they constantly add things said consumers feel they need and asked for.

Obviously the comment was regarding consumers emotional feelings. And the things consumers feel they needed has generated money for the company due to supply and demand. So what is your point? If they really cared about our supporting attitudes, they would apologize about never adding in the features they promised over a year ago.

Whatever reason they had to scrap those features is from a business standpoint. No business in the world can cater to its consumers 100% or they'd probably go out of business.

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Thus; they need to do smaller fixes, gauge how those are affecting the PvP side of the game as a whole, make notes, and gear up larger fixes based on the effects of the smaller fixes.

That's just how coding and bug fixing works, especially in a large online situation.

They cannot just "shut off the Live server, wave a magic wand, and 'poof' problem fixed".

Theyre not 'gearing up large fixes' based on how the small fixes go. They're just doing a lot of small fixes.

Which is exactly what is done with situations like they're facing down.

Since the issues are caused by the crush of people on the PvP side, those cannot be fixed accurately on the Test Server because the issue can't be replicated. It's also for this same reason that someone else's comment about "just shut down the servers, fix it, then bring the servers back up" will never work.

So rather than make huge fixes that might very well actually make PvP unplayable (rather than the bit of lag that is there now), they need to do small fixes, push them live, then see what happens.

While I may or may not be wrong on Zeni gearing up for larger fixes (none of us really know what they have planned in their ongoing efforts to fix these issues), the people screaming or using their Twitchy scream-streams to call for "fix it NAU!!!1!!!1" or "shut it down, fix it, then bring it back!!", aren't helping Zenimax target any issues in any way.

The small fixes are the only way it will be fixed, and even then; these small fixes and tweaks will be a feature for the life of the game. That reality is in the very nature of MMO's since... ever.

I dont think they should shut the servers down. I think they should take more radical action in a more reasonable time. Implementing small fixes over the course of a year that can impact things by less then 5% isnt very helpful. You would assume they are starting with the most obvious things they could address, and continuing to look for others beyond that. There is no magical pieces in the code they can slightly adjust to 'fix' it. They actually need to make a massive change in how things work.

And they do need to do it on live, and they need to do it more often than every incremental. They should test huge changes on PC and roll them back if it fails. They can start with doing it on the PTS as has been suggested for awhile. If it goes well, try them on live and be prepared to roll back. They can do this easier on just PC - weve already been the guinea pig for awhile.

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

The lag on True Flame is ridiculous.

Though if ZOS gets to the banning of all the cheats, my guess is the lag will stop magically. Just wipe 'em clean, get rid of all the shuffle exploiters, lag exploiters, and whatever cheats are in use and I'd bet it would also end the lag.

If the lag were on PC only this would be a good idea, but unfortunately the lag is on all platforms.

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

I think this topic comes up every week.

Actually this topic is pretty much constant.

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I'm sure the supporting attitudes they encounter on the forums will motivate them to continue their efforts to improve the performance for their customers.

Companies are motivated by money, not consumers feelings.

And yet they constantly add things said consumers feel they need and asked for.

Obviously the comment was regarding consumers emotional feelings. And the things consumers feel they needed has generated money for the company due to supply and demand. So what is your point? If they really cared about our supporting attitudes, they would apologize about never adding in the features they promised over a year ago.

Whatever reason they had to scrap those features is from a business standpoint. No business in the world can cater to its consumers 100% or they'd probably go out of business.

Oh, so now you are saying the reason that Zenimax does not care to apologize about hurting the "consumers feelings" is because it is from a business standpoint (which has to due to with money?) Weird, I thought that was what my OP was about? Damn you flip fast.