Why do the devs listen to PVP QQ minorities?

Didaco · April 2016

I don't know why no one mentioned this, but for 2 or 3 weeks Azura's Lag has been the most played campaign on PS4 EU.

Can't tell if it's still like that now since I don't play this game anymore, but still, there's (was) people actually having fun with the non-cp campaign.

Alcast · April 2016

- All changes to skills are made due to the PVP Aspect of the game. PvE just has to take it, whether it makes sense or not.
- ZOS is implementing changes to skills approx every 6 months which does ofc result in complete mayhem.
- The people that do work on balancing the game do not play the game, well...do I have to explain more?

- Non vet Non CP Campaign was long overdue. Many newbies have been driven away by 501 CP "I am pro" boys that try to swag/ l33t blablabla
- Azura is not a bad campaign, yet there is NOT ENOUGH people playing the broken PvP anymore.
- Once people feel the power of CP many do not want to go back to Non-CP as they will feel 2x as weak without CP. If that campaign was there when CP was implemented, then it might be looking different today, but of course like everything else, they are way too slow implementing crucial stuff.

The only thing working in this game is the Crown store. Even Casual PvE stuff is broken, yet nobody notices because casuals do not care.
They are unable to fix PvP. They are unable to fix PvE Trials, yet we still play the game. Kappa

rotaugen454 · April 2016

The biggest "whining" I see from PvP players is about lag, and that is justified. For the other changes, they may have thought it would turn out one way and the reality simply became another.

NewBlacksmurf · April 2016

Vigarr wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

I'm quoting it as I've often shared this same comment in many other threads.

I'm guessing they don't implement this because it would mean more work for them but it would be such a great thing for the community...we wouldn't have threads like this one anymore if skills were separated.

I don't consider it more work as a few spells have different effects on players vs NPCs....but the change decisions seem to be based on overall instead of, lets only change this one spell and its PvP effects.

Overall, have we seen any nerf this for PvE threads... Serious question?
but changes are nerfing PvE and PvP....so what gives <directed at ZOS and not you>

lathbury · April 2016

my 2 cents the non vet campaign was a tacit acknowledgement that they are now more interested in gaining new pvp players than keeping old ones (maybe they figure it will take another year or 2 to geta handle on lag by which time most beta pvpers will be long gone). so they decided to keep there fresh audience sweet with a campaign where they wont get stomped also it is another aknowledgment of the stupidity of implementing a capless vertical progression system.
as for why i dont use it 1 low pop 2. the sewers mobs etc are all scaled with cp in mind so it takes forever to farm for trophies or whatever.

Pallio · April 2016

The next PvP driven nerfs will be: Sorc shield stacking, more healing nerfs for everyone, more NB nerfs, and OMG Jesus Beam killed me with 40k from full health blah blah blah.... Maybe a few buffs to DKs since they are still terrible in PVP etc...... Meanwhile, in PvE everyone will have to adjust their play style to adapt, so FENG and crew can kill people faster and die less... etc.... Cycle we have been in for many months now....

hrothbern · April 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

I wish that skills would have 2 separate effects, 1 for PvE and the other for PvP...this way they can constantly change/nerf/etc. the PvP skills without affecting the PvE players.

THIS is the most obvious but always ignored feedback.
I'm quoting it as I've often shared this same comment in many other threads.

many skills had a PVE and PVP morph
until this Stamina thing came up and now we need 4 morphs
Stamina PVE, PVP
Magicka PVE, PVP

Celas_Dranacea · April 2016

I was one of the people who asked for a no-cp campaign, but that was before they implemented a CP cap. The CP cap solved the issue for me, which was that more casual but dedicated players had no way of pvping on an even playing field with cp grinders.

So Zos' only crime on this one is responding to player feedback in more than one way, making one of the changes less necessary.

Regardless, I really appreciate their solid response to this issue, even though I no longer find a no-cp campaign really useful to me.

Zyle · April 2016

hydrocynus wrote: »

It seems the few people on the forum who moan the most get their way and then when the changes are developed no one uses them

1) let's have a campaign where sewers is locked unless you own your home keeps
2) let's have a campaign where CP are ignored

Now it seems after them going through the effort of humouring those guys, the actual eso pvp community voted where it counts to move to Truflame and those special campaigns are dead.

It seems in their effort to keep the minority forumers happy they have wasted time that they could have used to do much cooler stuff for us or fix other stuff that needs fixing.

Now we have forum posts with people trying to say how cool it is on Azura star in the hope to get more people to come join them there which obviously shows how under populated it is.

Get your facts straight before QQing yourself.

1> ZOS introduced that idea and changed it when people cried for the opposite
2> Everyone originally asked for an additional nonvet campaign to try out no-cp, ZOS changed the only nonvet & the most populated campaign at the time to non-cp.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · April 2016

Why? Because ignorant, self absorbed, loud people are everywhere and they usually can't envision properly what will happen after their myopic stance is implemented.

The exact same things happen in all walks of life. Go to any political, sports, or any other type of message board and you'll see the same thing. The arguments are no different if you're arguing about ESO PVP vs PVE, Clinton vs Trump, or Roman Reigns vs AJ Styles. Ever been to a ESPN chat about basketball? Warriors and Bulls fans do the same things.

Seriously, this is a human thing, not an ESO thing. The loudest complainers are often the stupidest people in the room while the majority simply want to enjoy their lives and not be subjected to arguments with morons.

FriedEggSandwich · April 2016

Pssst, nobody asked for a CP free azura. Some players wanted a CP free BWB, but zos went the extra mile on our behalf. Now that we have a CP free azura I see loads of people using it. It's often pop locked on EU so I don't know what you're on about.

Skills that get used to fight AI have no balance issues and don't need tweaking, any balance can be achieved here by tweaking AI. Skills that get used by players to fight players do have balance issues and therefore need tweaking. It is just the nature of pvp.

Pvp is more broken that pve so needs more attention from devs, that's not the fault of the player base. What should we do instead of complain? Take our money to another game? Cos that would really help your cause right? Less money going into the game you love.

Perspective: I will never play vMoL, I have no desire to, I want none of the drops, I don't care for the achievements, I don't pve. Does this give me the right to complain that zos are spending resources developing it and fixing it?

Attackopsn · April 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

I wish that skills would have 2 separate effects, 1 for PvE and the other for PvP...this way they can constantly change/nerf/etc. the PvP skills without affecting the PvE players.

THIS is the most obvious but always ignored feedback.
I'm quoting it as I've often shared this same comment in many other threads.

Ambush and Negate Magic do different things in PvE and PvP, so I don't see why it couldn't be done for other skills.

FriedEggSandwich · April 2016

hydrocynus wrote: »

Apoxsee wrote: »

No one asked for a cp less Vet Campaign... They just gave it to us and extensively removed a server. Which in turn force people to bunch up into two servers. Which in turn created huge lag in those servers. They told us to spread out and they shoved us all in the same room. That is an example of increditbal incompetened ZOS decision making as it finest for you.

All the people who were in the Non vet campaign that had no cp's wanted a campaign that was Cp less because they were getting blown up by people that like to pray on the weaker in the Non Vet Campaign. I agree with that personally.

Axe was a pve server... People would go to it due to a lack of pvp in the sewers so they could grind out mats and tv stones without fear and again something that was given not asked for. It seems to me it was a test to see which model they would follow based on popularity. The people spoke thru useage and they decide to remove that server.

OP, please pontificate how any changes within PVP has affected your PVE experience? I play both and i cant for the life of me see how this affects any

Again I mentioned nothing about PVE. Why does everyone always assume this is a us vs them thing? I play both too and I love them both.

But since you asked (my mind says it's a trap don't answer him don't do it!!!!☺), if you really want I will give you 1 example that I actually view as positive but I know that the majority of Tanks hate and took a long time to adjust to of evert they in fact did ( as some gave up)... must I elaborate or do you know maybe of what I speak already?

Again though, please please let's not make this a PVE vs PVP thing. That's not the point.

Um the title maybe. "Why do the devs listen to PVP QQ minorities? " is provocative fyi.

Valrien · April 2016

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Pssst, nobody asked for a CP free azura. Some players wanted a CP free BWB, but zos went the extra mile on our behalf. Now that we have a CP free azura I see loads of people using it. It's often pop locked on EU so I don't know what you're on about.

Skills that get used to fight AI have no balance issues and don't need tweaking, any balance can be achieved here by tweaking AI. Skills that get used by players to fight players do have balance issues and therefore need tweaking. It is just the nature of pvp.

Pvp is more broken that pve so needs more attention from devs, that's not the fault of the player base. What should we do instead of complain? Take our money to another game? Cos that would really help your cause right? Less money going into the game you love.

Perspective: I will never play vMoL, I have no desire to, I want none of the drops, I don't care for the achievements, I don't pve. Does this give me the right to complain that zos are spending resources developing it and fixing it?

I will say that there actually can be imbalances in PvE. For example, classes can pull more DPS than others. Often, this isn't such a big deal unless it's a HUGE disparity. Prime example, Sorcerers do great DPS with Overload, but have overall weak DPS when you consider the rest of their skills. Sorcs can pull 30k or so (and that's the absolute top mark without Overload). Other classes have potential for 38k and sometimes even more. The situation is also similar for Stam sorcs (and stam builds in general, magicka builds are simply better for PvE...sad, but true).

My point it, there can be imbalances in PvE.

Pallio · April 2016

Look at Sorc. shields, if not for PvP, no one would care that they can shield their way through vMA... But, with all the PVP qqing they will eventually be nerfed, making vMA nearly impossible. Just an example of PvP changes ruining someone's PvE game...... they should be separate.

Khaos_Bane · April 2016

Apoxsee wrote: »

OP, please pontificate how any changes within PVP has affected your PVE experience? I play both and i cant for the life of me see how this affects any

Skill changes are almost exclusively changed due to PvP. This cannot be a serious question. BoL nerf and PvP streamer...

jellicles · April 2016

Alcast wrote: »

(elided...)
- Non vet Non CP Campaign was long overdue. Many newbies have been driven away by 501 CP "I am pro" boys that try to swag/ l33t blablabla
(elided...)
- Once people feel the power of CP many do not want to go back to Non-CP as they will feel 2x as weak without CP. If that campaign was there when CP was implemented, then it might be looking different today, but of course like everything else, they are way too slow implementing crucial stuff.

Although I agree with removing CP enhancements for the non-veteran campaign, I do not think there as many 501 CP players as many want to believe, at least on the console which is my platform for play. PC transfers aside, most dedicated console players that I know are a country mile from maximizing their CP trees.

As for the paucity of players willing to abandon CP points, there is also an economic aspect to this. You not only need to learn to play without the CP enhancements but you no doubt need to obtain armor sets to master the CP less environment. Speaking for myself, that can be an expensive proposition if I wish to play in both (CP and non-CP) environs.

hydrocynus · April 2016

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

hydrocynus wrote: »

Apoxsee wrote: »

No one asked for a cp less Vet Campaign... They just gave it to us and extensively removed a server. Which in turn force people to bunch up into two servers. Which in turn created huge lag in those servers. They told us to spread out and they shoved us all in the same room. That is an example of increditbal incompetened ZOS decision making as it finest for you.

All the people who were in the Non vet campaign that had no cp's wanted a campaign that was Cp less because they were getting blown up by people that like to pray on the weaker in the Non Vet Campaign. I agree with that personally.

Axe was a pve server... People would go to it due to a lack of pvp in the sewers so they could grind out mats and tv stones without fear and again something that was given not asked for. It seems to me it was a test to see which model they would follow based on popularity. The people spoke thru useage and they decide to remove that server.

OP, please pontificate how any changes within PVP has affected your PVE experience? I play both and i cant for the life of me see how this affects any

Again I mentioned nothing about PVE. Why does everyone always assume this is a us vs them thing? I play both too and I love them both.

But since you asked (my mind says it's a trap don't answer him don't do it!!!!☺), if you really want I will give you 1 example that I actually view as positive but I know that the majority of Tanks hate and took a long time to adjust to of evert they in fact did ( as some gave up)... must I elaborate or do you know maybe of what I speak already?

Again though, please please let's not make this a PVE vs PVP thing. That's not the point.

Um the title maybe. "Why do the devs listen to PVP QQ minorities? " is provocative fyi.

Minorities dude. ie I am comparing them to the majority PvP who doesn't feel the same way.

Clear?

WalkingLegacy · April 2016

hydrocynus wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

hydrocynus wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Housing and barber shop are coming buddy - they arent really big PVP features. Every DLC minus one has been full blown PVE .. and the one PVP one had more PVE content than PVP.

Reality is - youre delusional. This game is focused on PVE. Changes are made on balance from PVP community because they understand skills and report broken skills / complain about imbalance. This influences change - which will always be there.

Yeah but then why doesn't the pvp community use those changes that they ask for?

I am not delusional. Look at the populations of those campaigns. Truflame still always full. Others not so much.

And I mentioned nothing about PVE this is not about PVE vs PVP. This is about taking dev focus off stuff that the broader community would prefer eg fix lag in cyrodiil.

Ahh the CP change campaign was kind of an 'idea' - and from what I hear its not bad but people literally have to change their builds for it so they arent comfortable going there to do it.

Sewer locked campaigns didnt work because they just became a safe haven for people to farm in really, and they left the rest of the campaigns unlocked. All in all, this whole thing didnt make sense because IC and cyro were not tied together in any reasonable matter. If one related to the other and impacted it, this could have made sense, but they never finished IC. The districts are literally unfinished content from their original design and hold no real value.

Fixing the lag though is separate from all of this content stuff. Its a technical issue, one that they are constrained on technically fixing though. Different teams - but they 'are working on it'. Unfortunately, they will be working on it forever.

My point exactly. They end up bowing to these suggestions when maybe they are not the best idea in the world.

They made non CP campaigns because they were trying to contribute CPs to increased lag in Cyrodiil. It was not the case so why should people play there when they can be OP in a CP campaign?

FriedEggSandwich · April 2016

hydrocynus wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

hydrocynus wrote: »

Apoxsee wrote: »

No one asked for a cp less Vet Campaign... They just gave it to us and extensively removed a server. Which in turn force people to bunch up into two servers. Which in turn created huge lag in those servers. They told us to spread out and they shoved us all in the same room. That is an example of increditbal incompetened ZOS decision making as it finest for you.

All the people who were in the Non vet campaign that had no cp's wanted a campaign that was Cp less because they were getting blown up by people that like to pray on the weaker in the Non Vet Campaign. I agree with that personally.

Axe was a pve server... People would go to it due to a lack of pvp in the sewers so they could grind out mats and tv stones without fear and again something that was given not asked for. It seems to me it was a test to see which model they would follow based on popularity. The people spoke thru useage and they decide to remove that server.

OP, please pontificate how any changes within PVP has affected your PVE experience? I play both and i cant for the life of me see how this affects any

Again I mentioned nothing about PVE. Why does everyone always assume this is a us vs them thing? I play both too and I love them both.

But since you asked (my mind says it's a trap don't answer him don't do it!!!!☺), if you really want I will give you 1 example that I actually view as positive but I know that the majority of Tanks hate and took a long time to adjust to of evert they in fact did ( as some gave up)... must I elaborate or do you know maybe of what I speak already?

Again though, please please let's not make this a PVE vs PVP thing. That's not the point.

Um the title maybe. "Why do the devs listen to PVP QQ minorities? " is provocative fyi.

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

hydrocynus wrote: »

Apoxsee wrote: »

No one asked for a cp less Vet Campaign... They just gave it to us and extensively removed a server. Which in turn force people to bunch up into two servers. Which in turn created huge lag in those servers. They told us to spread out and they shoved us all in the same room. That is an example of increditbal incompetened ZOS decision making as it finest for you.

All the people who were in the Non vet campaign that had no cp's wanted a campaign that was Cp less because they were getting blown up by people that like to pray on the weaker in the Non Vet Campaign. I agree with that personally.

Axe was a pve server... People would go to it due to a lack of pvp in the sewers so they could grind out mats and tv stones without fear and again something that was given not asked for. It seems to me it was a test to see which model they would follow based on popularity. The people spoke thru useage and they decide to remove that server.

OP, please pontificate how any changes within PVP has affected your PVE experience? I play both and i cant for the life of me see how this affects any

Again I mentioned nothing about PVE. Why does everyone always assume this is a us vs them thing? I play both too and I love them both.

But since you asked (my mind says it's a trap don't answer him don't do it!!!!☺), if you really want I will give you 1 example that I actually view as positive but I know that the majority of Tanks hate and took a long time to adjust to of evert they in fact did ( as some gave up)... must I elaborate or do you know maybe of what I speak already?

Again though, please please let's not make this a PVE vs PVP thing. That's not the point.

Um the title maybe. "Why do the devs listen to PVP QQ minorities? " is provocative fyi.

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

hydrocynus wrote: »

Apoxsee wrote: »

No one asked for a cp less Vet Campaign... They just gave it to us and extensively removed a server. Which in turn force people to bunch up into two servers. Which in turn created huge lag in those servers. They told us to spread out and they shoved us all in the same room. That is an example of increditbal incompetened ZOS decision making as it finest for you.

All the people who were in the Non vet campaign that had no cp's wanted a campaign that was Cp less because they were getting blown up by people that like to pray on the weaker in the Non Vet Campaign. I agree with that personally.

Axe was a pve server... People would go to it due to a lack of pvp in the sewers so they could grind out mats and tv stones without fear and again something that was given not asked for. It seems to me it was a test to see which model they would follow based on popularity. The people spoke thru useage and they decide to remove that server.

OP, please pontificate how any changes within PVP has affected your PVE experience? I play both and i cant for the life of me see how this affects any

Again I mentioned nothing about PVE. Why does everyone always assume this is a us vs them thing? I play both too and I love them both.

But since you asked (my mind says it's a trap don't answer him don't do it!!!!☺), if you really want I will give you 1 example that I actually view as positive but I know that the majority of Tanks hate and took a long time to adjust to of evert they in fact did ( as some gave up)... must I elaborate or do you know maybe of what I speak already?

Again though, please please let's not make this a PVE vs PVP thing. That's not the point.

Um the title maybe. "Why do the devs listen to PVP QQ minorities? " is provocative fyi.

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

hydrocynus wrote: »

Apoxsee wrote: »

No one asked for a cp less Vet Campaign... They just gave it to us and extensively removed a server. Which in turn force people to bunch up into two servers. Which in turn created huge lag in those servers. They told us to spread out and they shoved us all in the same room. That is an example of increditbal incompetened ZOS decision making as it finest for you.

All the people who were in the Non vet campaign that had no cp's wanted a campaign that was Cp less because they were getting blown up by people that like to pray on the weaker in the Non Vet Campaign. I agree with that personally.

Axe was a pve server... People would go to it due to a lack of pvp in the sewers so they could grind out mats and tv stones without fear and again something that was given not asked for. It seems to me it was a test to see which model they would follow based on popularity. The people spoke thru useage and they decide to remove that server.

OP, please pontificate how any changes within PVP has affected your PVE experience? I play both and i cant for the life of me see how this affects any

Again I mentioned nothing about PVE. Why does everyone always assume this is a us vs them thing? I play both too and I love them both.

But since you asked (my mind says it's a trap don't answer him don't do it!!!!☺), if you really want I will give you 1 example that I actually view as positive but I know that the majority of Tanks hate and took a long time to adjust to of evert they in fact did ( as some gave up)... must I elaborate or do you know maybe of what I speak already?

Again though, please please let's not make this a PVE vs PVP thing. That's not the point.

Um the title maybe. "Why do the devs listen to PVP QQ minorities? " is provocative fyi.

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

hydrocynus wrote: »

Apoxsee wrote: »

No one asked for a cp less Vet Campaign... They just gave it to us and extensively removed a server. Which in turn force people to bunch up into two servers. Which in turn created huge lag in those servers. They told us to spread out and they shoved us all in the same room. That is an example of increditbal incompetened ZOS decision making as it finest for you.

All the people who were in the Non vet campaign that had no cp's wanted a campaign that was Cp less because they were getting blown up by people that like to pray on the weaker in the Non Vet Campaign. I agree with that personally.

Axe was a pve server... People would go to it due to a lack of pvp in the sewers so they could grind out mats and tv stones without fear and again something that was given not asked for. It seems to me it was a test to see which model they would follow based on popularity. The people spoke thru useage and they decide to remove that server.

OP, please pontificate how any changes within PVP has affected your PVE experience? I play both and i cant for the life of me see how this affects any

Again I mentioned nothing about PVE. Why does everyone always assume this is a us vs them thing? I play both too and I love them both.

But since you asked (my mind says it's a trap don't answer him don't do it!!!!☺), if you really want I will give you 1 example that I actually view as positive but I know that the majority of Tanks hate and took a long time to adjust to of evert they in fact did ( as some gave up)... must I elaborate or do you know maybe of what I speak already?

Again though, please please let's not make this a PVE vs PVP thing. That's not the point.

Um the title maybe. "Why do the devs listen to PVP QQ minorities? " is provocative fyi.

Minorities dude. ie I am comparing them to the majority PvP who doesn't feel the same way.

Clear?

No it wasn't clear. It suggested pvpers were in the minority and had their qq listened to over the pve majority. This is why people are assuming it's an "us and them" thread.

dodgehopper_ESO · April 2016

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Housing and barber shop are coming buddy - they arent really big PVP features. Every DLC minus one has been full blown PVE .. and the one PVP one had more PVE content than PVP.

Reality is - youre delusional. This game is focused on PVE. Changes are made on balance from PVP community because they understand skills and report broken skills / complain about imbalance. This influences change - which will always be there.

+1.

I don't agree with Fengrush on everything, but I agree with him on a lot of things and he's right here. PvP players can be vocal on the forums, but we've got a lot to be vocal about. The reality is we should hope that the gameplay experience for ALL PLAYERS is good. This is why I've proposed that balance should start with PvP in mind first, and then the raids develop based off of those rules. They developers of DCUO did this to quite good effect, and I applaud them for it. TSW is another game where they've more or less done this. When combat feels very similar between PvP and PvE that's actually a good thing. There will always be some obvious differences but it avoids these unnecessary rifts between these two circles of players on the Venn diagram (yes there is crossover). Most people I know who favor pvp still enjoy doing the pve content, including raids, trials, etc so it is not as though PvP'ers don't care about the PvE experience. I think that is a long held view that is for the most part wrong. At the very least most PvP'ers have to care about PvE enough to get their Undaunted 10 grind complete, so they can squeeze out 18% more to their attributes.

Necrelios · April 2016

hydrocynus wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Housing and barber shop are coming buddy - they arent really big PVP features. Every DLC minus one has been full blown PVE .. and the one PVP one had more PVE content than PVP.

Reality is - youre delusional. This game is focused on PVE. Changes are made on balance from PVP community because they understand skills and report broken skills / complain about imbalance. This influences change - which will always be there.

Yeah but then why doesn't the pvp community use those changes that they ask for?

I am not delusional. Look at the populations of those campaigns. Truflame still always full. Others not so much.

And I mentioned nothing about PVE this is not about PVE vs PVP. This is about taking dev focus off stuff that the broader community would prefer eg fix lag in cyrodiil.

One thing that people like to forget is that taking away the CP from Cyrodiil also effects all the PvE content in IC. Those creatures that live down in them sewers are pretty nasty. That's a huge problem, especially if you go vamp because just about everything there deals flame damage and hits like a truck. Ironically, it's not the players I'm worried about in the non-CP campaign. It's the PvE mobs.

dodgehopper_ESO · April 2016

timidobserver wrote: »

I agree. They even went as far as to force nocp on people by adding it to the current most active campaign and making people pay to get off of it. Everyone still left. Time would have been better spent making IC worth entering again.

Everyone should have had a means to leave a campaign for free when the fundamental rules changed. This is a thing I do not like about the way ZoS has been operating the game the last few months. They fundamentally change game rules, and they expect us to pay for respecs. In some cases they utterly break builds that have worked for over a year. I don't like this sort of thing, particularly when respecs are being sold on the Crown store. Its not p2w, but it is a little smelly.

That being said I do think it is a good idea to have campaigns with and without CP. The contrast going from BWB to a Vet Campaign with full CP is stark. Additionally, a lot of people like playing BwB specifically because it doesn't have CP balance. Those same people when they rank up to Veteran are very likely to want to continue in a non-CP environment. I think its good they have this campaign available to people, they just shouldn't have crammed it down people's throats on a campaign where such a ruling didn't exist before. That is the point.

Valrien · April 2016

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

I agree. They even went as far as to force nocp on people by adding it to the current most active campaign and making people pay to get off of it. Everyone still left. Time would have been better spent making IC worth entering again.

Everyone should have had a means to leave a campaign for free when the fundamental rules changed. This is a thing I do not like about the way ZoS has been operating the game the last few months. They fundamentally change game rules, and they expect us to pay for respecs. In some cases they utterly break builds that have worked for over a year. I don't like this sort of thing, particularly when respecs are being sold on the Crown store. Its not p2w, but it is a little smelly.

That being said I do think it is a good idea to have campaigns with and without CP. The contrast going from BWB to a Vet Campaign with full CP is stark. Additionally, a lot of people like playing BwB specifically because it doesn't have CP balance. Those same people when they rank up to Veteran are very likely to want to continue in a non-CP environment. I think its good they have this campaign available to people, they just shouldn't have crammed it down people's throats on a campaign where such a ruling didn't exist before. That is the point.

Afaik we did have a free switch.

Taisynn · April 2016

Because there are more people complaining than there are people saying "This system works!" Lets tell the DEVs when they do a good job as well.

Apoxsee · April 2016

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Apoxsee wrote: »

OP, please pontificate how any changes within PVP has affected your PVE experience? I play both and i cant for the life of me see how this affects any

Skill changes are almost exclusively changed due to PvP. This cannot be a serious question. BoL nerf and PvP streamer...

So how has it change your PVE experience then? Mobs cant voice an opinion. The content PVE is mind numbly easy except for three instances ( SO, VMA, VMOL). So it is only in a PVP experience that skills get exposed for the strengths and weaknesses. Of course PVP shapes skill lines.

NewBlacksmurf · April 2016

hrothbern wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

I wish that skills would have 2 separate effects, 1 for PvE and the other for PvP...this way they can constantly change/nerf/etc. the PvP skills without affecting the PvE players.

THIS is the most obvious but always ignored feedback.
I'm quoting it as I've often shared this same comment in many other threads.

many skills had a PVE and PVP morph
until this Stamina thing came up and now we need 4 morphs
Stamina PVE, PVP
Magicka PVE, PVP

Yeah somehow ZOS development went into a stat focus rather than PvE
PVP
And then skills

I think we can all argue that stamina, health and magic could easily be utilized as in (allow players to pick resource pool for morph and for base) but who knows the idea behind it all. To me....anything that is physical should be stamina, anything not is magic. Anything that does a mix is both.

While that may change a lot and cause a lot of rebalancing...it's what make sense.

Lokey0024 · April 2016

Try fighting someone with 50 cps compaired to 250 or 350. They don't have a chance. Most of what this is can be to prepare for newer players to try pvp without being stomped by CP capped monsters.
And yes, gearing and skill matter more.

Justice31st · April 2016

Richard Lamberts data mined reports came back showing that the "PvP QQ minorities" had more ESO subscriptions than the PvP player majorities. Lol, I don't know? You can always blame the Twitch streamers.

Xundiin · April 2016

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Reality is - you're delusional. This game is focused on PVE. Changes are made on balance from PVP community because they understand skills and report broken skills / complain about imbalance. This influences change - which will always be there.

Reality is that the PVP community only knows and understand skills from a PVP point of view. Balancing around PVP is just plain dumb. What happens is that they keep balancing and balancing and not realizing that every pass is messing up the PVE side of content. If you are going to balance around PVP then you end up gutting yourself on making dynamic boss fights. Every MMO prior to this one has learned this. Hell WoW was really bad for a time about this and killed many classes from being able to do end game content because of PVP balancing.

Also, you just need to know how the games works and understand how skills work with other skills to be able to see if something is broken. You don't need to be a PVPer for this. You do need to have a higher understanding of the game than most players do. That is the only stipulation that is required to make accurate and concise bug reports and suggestions.