Tanking with zero stamina....

Miszou · April 2016

So last night, I was tanking (VR16 Argonian DK sword/board) for a group running Vet City of Ash. I told them ahead of time that I'd only ever killed Skoria once, after getting called into the dungeon through the group finder for the final boss, so I had no experience in the rest of the dungeon. They were very cool about it and the dungeon went pretty smoothly. Fire Maw went down first time with no deaths, and Ash Titan went down on the 2nd attempt. It seemed like a pretty smooth run and I was feeling good about my tanking abilities (although with hindsight, I should probably give some props to the healer!).

Anyway, we get to Skoria and had a little downtime for AFK's and whatnot, and they asked to see my gear and stats. No big deal - until I told them I had 40 magicka, 20 health and 0 stamina (and 4 points unspent). And then I got the impression they thought I was some kind of horrid noob (which is entirely possible) because I didn't have any points in stamina, and my health was relatively low (28k with food, but I will easily hit 30k when I upgrade my last 2 remaining pieces of VR9 armor)

I mentioned that I have enough stamina to dodge, block and pierce armor, and that the magicka pool was for all the supporting buffs, debuffs, roots, snares, DoTs etc. but I still got the impression that I was being judged on my choice of stats, rather than my actual demonstrated abilities in the dungeon...

And besides, even if I do run out of resources, using VR15 tri-pots on an Argonian is pretty awesome...

So... am I doing it wrong? Or is there more than one way to skin a cat?

I didn't read any build guides, so it's entirely possible I've created a monster, but it seems to work for me...

caperon · April 2016

Stat points allocation has a very relative weight in your final stats since you can choose your gear enchantments and sometimes jewelry traits.

Its perfectly possible (and for me very much prefered) tank with a magicka DK, specially if you build with enchants and CP for it. Magicka DK can spam earthen hearth habilities so the buffer you lose for being magicka focused is gained with stamina restoring habilities. I have a dunmer DK tank with ALL points in magicka and i tanked everything in this game other than the 2nd and 3rd boss of vMoL. As magicka character you can spam chains and talons too (best skills for a tank in 4 man content xD).

Said that, having a decent stamina pool is a good way to increase the efectivity of your stamina restoring passives (earthen hearth and batle roar) and shards from templars, since all work as % based recovery tools, but you can get stamina from your enchants (for example having 3 stats glyphs on the big pieces) or using robust jewelry (if you use footman you have this jewelry). In my tank i have 18.5k stamina with food and atronarch mundus. 25k hp and 26.5k magicka. Magicka DK tanks are maybe the last hybrids you can find ingame.

Engine guardian is another tool (probably the best) for managing resources, and lets you have smaller pools since they ciclically get filled up with this set.

SO don't worry, you are in my opinion in the correct path. Even your hp is a bit overkill, but that depends in your resistances. The higher or capped resistances and your hability to permablock, the less hp you need since your effective hp rockets up.

Autolycus · April 2016

This is a sure sign that your group is unfamiliar with tanking in general. It sounds like you did just fine, so they shouldn't have any reason to fret.

I've been tanking since just after ESO launched on PC. Over the course of ESO's lifetime to-date, I've done several different tanking setups. Today I tank in a full magicka setup. I have zero points into stamina, and my attribute allocation is very close to what you have. I ask for shards about once a week (I'm not exaggerating, I literally almost never need shards).

The real question here is, were you having difficulties sustaining your stamina pool? If the answer to this question is no, then you have nothing to worry about.

Liofa · April 2016

Don't listen what people say . If you can keep aggro and keep mobs in CC in AOE fights ; you are good enough . You don't have low Health . I have 25k Max Health with tri-stat food and tanked everything with ease ( except MoL ) . My only suggestion is this : Learn the mechanics of dungeons before going in . Don't worry about your build . You will create your build as you encounter different and harder fights . Good luck !

zerosingularity · April 2016

You did nothing wrong. Did a run of vCoA last night with a NB tank with all points into magicka AND a vamp (27k HP) and they did fantastic. Looking at this, your HP is fine. Potions on Argonians are OP for tanking, been saying so since we lost the stam regen while blocking. As long as your mitigation stats are high enough, and your stam pool is good enough for Igneous spam to restore a fair amount of stam, then you are probably built just fine.

There are many different ways to tank, but without looking at your gears and stats/mitigation values, I cannot say for certain how your tank can perform on paper, but it sounds like you didn't do anything wrong.

Nestor · April 2016

Miszou wrote: »

Anyway, we get to Skoria and had a little downtime for AFK's and whatnot, and they asked to see my gear and stats.

So, you make it through a dungeon to the last boss, then they ask to see your gear and complain about what your using after you already demonstrated that you can handle the role and the content? Sheesh, these are the last people who's opinion you should take any concern with.

And, people wonder why gear scores are so useless. Not that your set up is useless, it's their preconceived notions about how you should be geared and attributed that are questionable.

I think I have run some dungeons with you as a tank, have you done anything with Lone Wolf Help on Mondays? If you are the person I am thinking of, your tanking is fine and I would have you with me on any dungeon run.

Steel_Brightblade · April 2016

For some there's a miss informed standard (primarily people that follow deltia builds as law rather than a helpful guide for the beginner) and if you do not fit this preconceived idea of a tank they will judge on that. I personally stamina tank with my dk but that was choice and did try magic tanking and found little difference in my ability to survive it just didn't suit my style.

So in short, if it works for you then you can't have been doing it wrong.

Cuyler · April 2016

Is there more than one way to skin a cat? Yes, but there is also easy ways to skin a cat and hard ways....play smart not hard. Maybe what you're doing isn't efficient? will it get the job done? yes. Are you content with mediocrity? or would you prefer to be the one ppl ask first for a dungeon run?

VR9 gear? you're v16 hue hue. Even with v16 gear 28-29k HP is more than enough HP for a vet dungeon and in trials with a good warhorn rotation. so it's not so much about HP as it's about hitting the resistance caps.

Do you run out of stam? No? then there's no problem. If you are running out of stam, put points into stam..... simple, problem solved.

Steel_Brightblade · April 2016

I find the nice thing with dragon knight tanking is that you can go both styles easily, if you prioritise stamina you can use fewer earthen heart skills to Regen stam but get a large chunk. If you prioritise magic you can cast tons of earthen heart skills for multiple smaller chunks of stamina. End result is either way stamina is easily manageable.

Oompuh · April 2016

There are many ways to skin a cat, persay. Although my Khajiit DK Tank may take offense

First, 28k isnt low health. I have 27k with all points in Stamina and Im a trials tank.
Secondly, you were being judged. People are very judgemental, if you get the job done, its fine. Your build might not work in end game content like HM Serpent or vMoL but if youre doing dungeons and enjoying the build. More power to you.

Do you Mr Lizardman

Miszou · April 2016

Thanks for the feedback, guys!

I still have a few things to tweak, like gear upgrades and Champion Points, but it's nice to know I seem to be on the right track. And if it all falls apart, I can always respec or craft different enchants etc.

Nestor wrote: »

I think I have run some dungeons with you as a tank, have you done anything with Lone Wolf Help on Mondays? If you are the person I am thinking of, your tanking is fine and I would have you with me on any dungeon run.

Err... I was in Lone Wolf for a while, although for some reason I left. I think I was expecting it to be more social in guild chat, but after looking around at other guilds I found that none of them are really what I was expecting. Although that's probably more to do with my expectations, than any failing of the guilds themselves... especially for a guild full of Lone Wolves.

Anyway, I've been meaning to beg my way back in, but never quite got around to it...

RobbaYaga · April 2016

My Sorcerer is a Magicka Tank with 0 points in Health and Stamina. I've tanked nearly everything. It's about build, not points.

ThatNeonZebraAgain · April 2016

zerosingularity wrote: »

Potions on Argonians are OP for tanking, been saying so since we lost the stam regen while blocking.

Yep. Especially with the recent buff Argonians always have a nice emergency stamina (and magicka and health) reserve ready for when things get tricky. That extra utility IMHO is more valuable than a thousand or two more points into a stat.

About all your other points OP, everyone in this thread has already answered them well.

Kattemynte · April 2016

Ever since the nerf to blocking with the zero stamina regen a lot of people have gone to magicka tanking, I know I have. In a way it helps the group because right now magicka builds seem to be stronger. Personally, I have a magicka templar tank with only 9k stamina. I will admit that I hardly even use block except for the big attacks.

jzholloway · April 2016

I tank with all in Stam - however, most of my CP goes towards Magika regen and reduced cost - as well as healing recieved, etc. I typicall, buffed, have around 29k health, 28k stam and around 13k magika... That's what I PERSONALLY like, and works for ME. Emphasis there - if what you do works for you... then it works and its a good build. My two cents anyways

Forestd16b14_ESO · April 2016

Not really.

Your build your rules and as you said it works so if it works IT WORKS.

<---- 2H tank

Remember one group for vet Elden Hallow I had some guy was "criticizing" about my 2H tank build *much fighting and tanking later* he apologizes about my build and admits that it works pretty damn good. (Think 1 or 2 death or none at all)

One of the joys of this game that sadly not many players enjoy is to find and build your own way of doing things even if to other seems unorthodox.

player_klaus · April 2016

action speaks louder then words.

im running a 20.5k hp/43k mag/13k stam, dunmer-nb tank.
everytime i pug, ppl are suspicious, asking who actually the tank in the group is (pugs use to run more health than group/guild-players).
i have not, on one occasion, dissapointed them and i get bombed with questions about my build (which is actually not mine, for sure) after most of the runs. i even made some good friends this way.
from my experience, if you can communicate your weaknesses properly (eg. "pls kill this crematorial guard in 35secs, or i will get roasted"), most groups are able to adapt.

high apm wins the fight -not holding block and praying the others get their job done right. from this pov, your way to choose a magica tank is legit.

if you are thinking about vr16 gear some day, take a look at:

magnus, seducer, elfbane, willpower(robust -cheap af) , thorugs pact, mara, (permafrost vmsa)... not even the 5pc boni -but a mix of the 3-4pces. which can easily be crafted or bought for literally nothing.
also you might want to obtain the engine guardian set, which gives you even more ressources to spam your skills all day.
5 heavy, reinforced s&b +your buffs mitigate all incomming dmg far enough, so you can aim for a full divine set.

the most precious perks in the cp-trees are the block- and the magica-cost reduction.
i would rather not use any stamina skills on a magi-tank. better be using the undaunted taunt.
this is for 4man content only, as i have no interest in tanking 12man trials.

have fun.

Shunravi · April 2016

At the end of the day (run) only a few things really matter. Did you keep your team from harm? Did you control the fights and pacing well? And did you have fun doing it?

xarguideb17_ESO · April 2016

Mag dk tank ftw. I have 22k health as tank. Mostly vr14 equipment. No problems tanking any of the 4-man.