Hybrid builds need some love

failkiwib16_ESO · April 2016

Docmandu wrote: »

Isn't a magicka sorc in PvP by definition a hybrid?! Super DPS while being super Tanky... all hail the mighty shield stacks!

That is kinda the opposite of a hybrid, hybrids don't stack one resource pool but spend enchantments, attributes and armor + weapon bonuses to benefit from both magicka and stamina.

Hybrids deal less dps/heal output than players with dedicated builds for their role, so in pve it is mostly viable as a support role, such as tanking and healing.

Hybrids that are tank-healers very well liked, as they can run with groups of 3 Damage Dealers and get through a dungeon faster than if they ran with 2 Damage Dealers, 1 Tank, 1 Healer.

Pvp is a different matter.

QuebraRegra · April 2016

Sallington wrote: »

Bring back soft caps.

Done.

I'd LOVE to agree with this, and I would.... Except that concept doesn't work at all with the current CP implementation.

dodgehopper_ESO · April 2016

notimetocare wrote: »

Id prefer balance with what we have and leaving hybrid dead.

Health is still unbalanced with respect to Magicka/Stamina. We don't have balance right now.

Forestd16b14_ESO · April 2016

JDC1985 wrote: »

It's way better now hybrid builds were boring.

Uh sorry but no cause now it's who ever pools more magicka or stamina will win and that is boring.

Acrolas · April 2016

One Resto Staff/Sword and Board Khajiit Dragonknight Healer to rule them all.

failkiwib16_ESO · April 2016

Even with soft caps dedicated builds won over hybrids in dps/heal output and efficiency in 1 role.

*hint* "dedication" is the key word here *hint*

TequilaFire · April 2016

I find hybrid magicka stamina works pretty good on theTemplar because of the mix of the stam/magic skills.
Sorc and NB definitely benefit from maxing one pool or the other.

Muizer · April 2016

dday3six wrote: »

A Magicka Damage Shield is a utility skill. If you have Stamina based dps and heals, and a magicka damage shield that is not a hybrid. You'd need to have tried to mix Stamina and Magicka dps and heals to be a hybrid. The reason it's limited to damage and/or healing is because tanking is going to be a majority utility skills regardless of whether they focus Stamina or Magicka. They are infact the only viable hybrids able to function in their role.

If you want to call out my skill, I'm not in the least threatened by it. However, I eagerly await a video of you completing VR16 Veteran Maelstrom Arena with a score that made it on the leaderboards using a hybrid, non-meta build. Preferably the one you believe your skill allows you to use to an equal effect as build that max/min, focusing one resouce. Please prove the skill that you tote is more than just a delusion of grandeur. Evidence rather than deflection is the best way to get people to actually believe you.

But is it hybrid if you go for stam based damage, but spec magica regen for your utility skills? I don't know. I have this nagging feeling you're kind of trying to come up with a build that doesn't work and then use that as a definition of hybrid

dodgehopper_ESO · April 2016

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

Even with soft caps dedicated builds won over hybrids in dps/heal output and efficiency in 1 role.

*hint* "dedication" is the key word here *hint*

My complaint here is that 'Dedication' to Health just means you'll die faster. Tanks are the original hybrid, more or less, and they've paid a big price for it in PVP.

failkiwib16_ESO · April 2016

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

Even with soft caps dedicated builds won over hybrids in dps/heal output and efficiency in 1 role.

*hint* "dedication" is the key word here *hint*

My complaint here is that 'Dedication' to Health just means you'll die faster. Tanks are the original hybrid, more or less, and they've paid a big price for it in PVP.

Tanks can run dedicated builds and gear toward stamina or magicka.

The only skill in the game that uses health as a resource pool is Equillibrium.
The only skills that benefit from health pool are shields.

All other utilities and damage, heal and even tanking skills are drawed from and benefit from magicka and stamina. So sure if you stack everything into health, but you will be a big target who can't defend itself.

The alternative to that is shields and skills drawing from the health pool, meaning that you will loose health by using skills - like Equillibrium. Is that what you want?

dtm_samuraib16_ESO · April 2016

Well, that's the problem with hybrids, they are "decent" in more forms, but they lack specialization, that would make you REALLY good.
If that is the choice you made... well...

As for "they need some love": NAAAAAH!
Reason: if they became better in a lot of things, they'd become uber.
Game breaking.
Inbalance.
Not good at all.

dday3six · April 2016

Muizer wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

A Magicka Damage Shield is a utility skill. If you have Stamina based dps and heals, and a magicka damage shield that is not a hybrid. You'd need to have tried to mix Stamina and Magicka dps and heals to be a hybrid. The reason it's limited to damage and/or healing is because tanking is going to be a majority utility skills regardless of whether they focus Stamina or Magicka. They are infact the only viable hybrids able to function in their role.

If you want to call out my skill, I'm not in the least threatened by it. However, I eagerly await a video of you completing VR16 Veteran Maelstrom Arena with a score that made it on the leaderboards using a hybrid, non-meta build. Preferably the one you believe your skill allows you to use to an equal effect as build that max/min, focusing one resouce. Please prove the skill that you tote is more than just a delusion of grandeur. Evidence rather than deflection is the best way to get people to actually believe you.

But is it hybrid if you go for stam based damage, but spec magica regen for your utility skills? I don't know. I have this nagging feeling you're kind of trying to come up with a build that doesn't work and then use that as a definition of hybrid

I'm not coming up with anything. I know that if a player tries to mix skills that scale off Weapon Damage and max Stamina, with ones that scale with Spell Damage and max Magicka. That is the line for hybrid builds. Which stat the skills use scale with.

On my Stamina NB I have more Magicka regen for PVP, because I will use Magicka utility skills more often. Let's use Mass Hysteria as an example. It does not scale with Spell Damage or max Magicka. The effect is the same regardless. That is why it's not a hybrid build, even if I use Magicka skills utility. Those kinds of spells are simply Magicka dumps, to utilitize the resource pool and the greater inherent utility Magicka has, without the need to greatly invest into Magicka.That practice is something rather unqiue to Stamina builds, Magicka builds rarely reach from skills from the Stamina tool box, save for Trap Beast in a few specific scenarios.

Horker · April 2016

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Hybrids have half the action bar real estate, two resource pools to attend, and have to split their points between a lot more trees... why does everything in this game make it difficult to pay a hybrid character?

It'd be nice if we had some skill tree or armor options that would alleviate this. I'm suck of only seeing stamina or magicka builds dominating the game.

Here is my health regen build, its a heavy armor tank, relying on 4,5K+ health regeneration, and alot of sustain with stamina as a secondary.

this is not the easy-est build to play, u need some proper smallscale experience.

this is a hybrid, its a very very hard2kill build, but also has a little bit of stamina pool+sustain for damage, and magicka, because scales, buffs etc.

be sure to chek it out, here is a link: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/251578/health-regen-tank-builds-op

Sausage · April 2016

Ive wanted more weapon skills forever now. I think they should double their current weapon skills. If people want more variety why not to add it, long spears with long range, medium range crossbows, sling with very long range, fist weapon with short range etc.

hrothbern · April 2016

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

Even with soft caps dedicated builds won over hybrids in dps/heal output and efficiency in 1 role.

*hint* "dedication" is the key word here *hint*

My complaint here is that 'Dedication' to Health just means you'll die faster. Tanks are the original hybrid, more or less, and they've paid a big price for it in PVP.

Tanks can run dedicated builds and gear toward stamina or magicka.

The only skill in the game that uses health as a resource pool is Equillibrium.
The only skills that benefit from health pool are shields.

All other utilities and damage, heal and even tanking skills are drawed from and benefit from magicka and stamina. So sure if you stack everything into health, but you will be a big target who can't defend itself.

The alternative to that is shields and skills drawing from the health pool, meaning that you will loose health by using skills - like Equillibrium. Is that what you want?

Well...
to expand on: "....meaning that you will loose health by using skills - like Equillibrium"
Stamina, the originally really real life stamina, the power to do physical exhausting actions like Sprinting, Dodge roll, etc, has been transformed during the game to a kind of second form of Magicka.
Over time Magicka Class line abilities got Stamina morphs etc.
Balancing still in progress. Complaints about it being not fair that the Stamina pool has to be used for both physical stamina actions as the stamina abilities.

So factual over the last two years the physical Stamina has been usurped by a "Spell" Stamina.

so the idea could be:
Move the costs of physical actions like Sprinting, Crouching, Break Free, Dodge Roll to the Health pool: Physical actions cost Health.
Corresponding change would be to increase the base Health Recovery to the same values as Magicka & Stamina Recovery.
This would make Health pool AND Health Recovery more usefull without OP effects at a first glance.
And Stamina builds are at a more symetrical and equal footing with Magicka builds.
What could BTW also be introduced (as normal in classic RPG) is that a heavy attack, a physical exhausting action, costs Physical Stamina (Health !!!) and returns "Spell" Stamina.

Note:
I would leave Blocking as a Stamina cost because changing that, would have too far reaching balancing consequences and the current way to make perma-blocking very stamina cost expensive is good for the game balance imo.