Justice System PvP - Please explain exactly WHY you are for / against this content!

dtm_samuraib16_ESO · April 2016

Simply put, if one does not like people making assumptions, then GIVE INFORMATION.

Not that hard, is it?

Humans want everything explained to them, if not, we go make our assumptions.
It's a natural thing, albeit not always correct.

bloodenragedb14_ESO · April 2016

I am against Justice System PvP and I have played at least one game with Justice System PvP content in the past

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

...With a PVE version the area would get to be used (as well as sell many more copies of the DLC). Also the same should happen for Cyrodiil (add in a PVE version).
...

PvE versions would remove the appeal along with the rewards stripped out in rebalancing the zones...PvE versions would not have the player retention compared to the team investing in new zones.

Nope, PVE players would love to have PVE versions of IC and Cyrodiil, I don't think you can possibly speak for what we'd find appealing...certainly having PVP stripped out would greatly increase those zones' appeal to PVE players.

I'm a 95% PVE'er and I'd find 100% PVE version of Cyrodiil and IC completely dull, empty and boring.

Im a 100% PVE'er and i'd find a 100% pve version of cyrodiil and IC full of life, adventure, and free of anxiety

i also agree with most, if not all, of what @bablyon has said so far

((though i may have gotten a tad heated at some points, and though i dont take back the opinon behind them, i do apologize for the heated way it came out))

Samadhi · April 2016

I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have played at least one game with Justice System PvP content in the past

babylon wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

.

babylon wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

...With a PVE version the area would get to be used (as well as sell many more copies of the DLC). Also the same should happen for Cyrodiil (add in a PVE version).
...

PvE versions would remove the appeal along with the rewards stripped out in rebalancing the zones...PvE versions would not have the player retention compared to the team investing in new zones.

Nope, PVE players would love to have PVE versions of IC and Cyrodiil, I don't think you can possibly speak for what we'd find appealing...certainly having PVP stripped out would greatly increase those zones' appeal to PVE players.
...

Speaking as a PvE player, would hate pure PvE versions of IC and Cyrodiil.

By PVE player you mean you don't like to PVP? Because everything you've said goes against that. PVE players tend to dabble in PVP but don't enjoy it all that much, or don't enjoy it at all...most PVE players have set foot in PVP zones, but just don't enjoy it enough to go back often, if ever at all.

I'm not sure you can say "speaking as a PVE player" with a straight face

Being a PvE player means that I primarily play PvE content, nothing more. It is not an exclusive group that requires me to like or dislike certain things to fit in like a high school clique.
Do not need to hate on PvP or PvP players -- my playstyle is defined by how I play, not my ability to throw vitriol at the other side.
When I do PvP, it is not simply for the sake of PvP -- it is a part of my characters role-play stories and motives that they help their alliance.

PvP sometimes and enjoy it,
RP sometimes and enjoy it,
but spend the overwhelming majority of my time engaged in PvE (with the exception of group PvE, because group settings cause me anxiety tied to my OCD and PTSD, and my psychiatrist has advised me not to push myself too hard), and define myself foremost as a PvE player.

Personally recognize and respect the different playstyles in game, and like the diversity that the various players add to our community. As such, recognize that Cyrodiil and IC are fine as they are now, in terms of PvE. Similarly, am not making posts asking that Trials be made soloable to appeal to my playstyle.

babylon · April 2016

I am against Justice System PvP and I have played at least one game with Justice System PvP content in the past

Samadhi wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

.

babylon wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

...With a PVE version the area would get to be used (as well as sell many more copies of the DLC). Also the same should happen for Cyrodiil (add in a PVE version).
...

PvE versions would remove the appeal along with the rewards stripped out in rebalancing the zones...PvE versions would not have the player retention compared to the team investing in new zones.

Nope, PVE players would love to have PVE versions of IC and Cyrodiil, I don't think you can possibly speak for what we'd find appealing...certainly having PVP stripped out would greatly increase those zones' appeal to PVE players.
...

Speaking as a PvE player, would hate pure PvE versions of IC and Cyrodiil.

By PVE player you mean you don't like to PVP? Because everything you've said goes against that. PVE players tend to dabble in PVP but don't enjoy it all that much, or don't enjoy it at all...most PVE players have set foot in PVP zones, but just don't enjoy it enough to go back often, if ever at all.

I'm not sure you can say "speaking as a PVE player" with a straight face

Being a PvE player means that I primarily play PvE content, nothing more.

Well the thing is it was me who was defining the term "PVE player" in relation to what I was saying about what PVE players would find love to have. So your definition of PVE player wasn't relevant to use in a rebuttal to my statement on what a PVE player would find enjoy.

You are welcome to put any term on yourself of course, but not when stating you are part of a group another person has defined or is in the process of defining, and then not actually coming under that definition while using it to refute a point made.

The main point to keep in mind however, is opening up areas to include more people rather than less people, would only be a positive move for the game. So a PVE version of IC and a PVE version of Cyrodiil would be welcomed as more people could then get to use those areas and explore, and quest.

_________________________________

bloodenragedb14_ESO · April 2016

I am against Justice System PvP and I have played at least one game with Justice System PvP content in the past

babylon wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

.

babylon wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

...With a PVE version the area would get to be used (as well as sell many more copies of the DLC). Also the same should happen for Cyrodiil (add in a PVE version).
...

PvE versions would remove the appeal along with the rewards stripped out in rebalancing the zones...PvE versions would not have the player retention compared to the team investing in new zones.

Nope, PVE players would love to have PVE versions of IC and Cyrodiil, I don't think you can possibly speak for what we'd find appealing...certainly having PVP stripped out would greatly increase those zones' appeal to PVE players.
...

Speaking as a PvE player, would hate pure PvE versions of IC and Cyrodiil.

By PVE player you mean you don't like to PVP? Because everything you've said goes against that. PVE players tend to dabble in PVP but don't enjoy it all that much, or don't enjoy it at all...most PVE players have set foot in PVP zones, but just don't enjoy it enough to go back often, if ever at all.

I'm not sure you can say "speaking as a PVE player" with a straight face

Being a PvE player means that I primarily play PvE content, nothing more.

Well the thing is it was me who was defining the term "PVE player" in relation to what I was saying about what PVE players would find love to have. So your definition of PVE player wasn't relevant to use in a rebuttal to my statement on what a PVE player would find enjoy.

You are welcome to put any term on yourself of course, but not when stating you are part of a group another person has defined or is in the process of defining, and then not actually coming under that definition while using it to refute a point made.

The main point to keep in mind however, is opening up areas to include more people rather than less people, would only be a positive move for the game. So a PVE version of IC and a PVE version of Cyrodiil would be welcomed as more people could then get to use those areas and explore, and quest.

_________________________________

we are getting a tad off point, getting very near the 'name calling' segment of an arguement

let us leave what is or is not a pve or pvp'er behind us as it seems we all have our own definations of the terms, let us say instead

pve'ers like them/me

or pvp'ers like them/me

anitajoneb17_ESO · April 2016

I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the past

babylon wrote: »

Well the thing is it was me who was defining the term "PVE player" in relation to what I was saying about what PVE players would find love to have. So your definition of PVE player wasn't relevant to use in a rebuttal to my statement on what a PVE player would find enjoy.

Next time just say "I think" instead of bending or making up definitions as you please.
You don't represent "PvEers" here, by whatever definition. You just represent yourself.
And also please don't dismiss other people's opinions simply based on their "status" according to your self-made definitions.

Divinius · April 2016

I am against Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the past

How has this thread not died yet?

babylon · April 2016

I am against Justice System PvP and I have played at least one game with Justice System PvP content in the past

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

I'm not sure you can say "speaking as a PVE player" with a straight face

Regardless, if ZOS would just make PVE only versions of IC and Cyrodiil, I think PVE players would enjoy having access to those areas greatly. Could even add in more mobs and trees into Cyrodiil again so it looks like it should, before all the nerfs to the environment due to PVP lag.

If I understand you well, a PVE'er's opinion isn't valid "because reasons", a PVP'er's opinion isn't valid "because reasons", but you feel entitled to say "we PVE'ers" with full legitimacy ?

Lol.

I'm not sure you read/understood my post or maybe you're trying to misrepresent my words, as you carefully and possibly deliberately snipped out the bits that make what I said make sense.

And as to your "LOL" rebuttal...I'm not sure I can work with that, really seems not very well argued

A PVP'er gave his opinion, you told him/her he can't speak for PvEers
A PvE'er gave his opinion, you told him/her he can't speak for PvEers either.
But you say "we PvEers" instead of "I, babylon" when you give your own opinion.

So yes : LoL ;-)

The definitions of PVE players were simply misunderstood by that poster, nothing more. Doing PVE even if it's done more often is not the same as not enjoying PVP or even being completely against PVP. So while he does PVE a lot, that doesn't make him a "PVE player" in the sense that he really wouldn't want to step foot in PVP zones (maybe only to get skillpoints or skills and disliking it while there) or never stepping foot in PVP zones at all. Tuns out he just does PVE a lot, yet enjoys PVP, and we're discussing people who will never or will actively avoid using PVP zones. And those who would likely leave the game if PVP was brought into PVE zones, yet would rejoice if PVE versions were made for IC and Cyrodiil just so they could finally get to enjoy and explore the areas.

And obviously a PVP player can't speak for PVE players same as PVE players don't try to speak for PVP players.

And "LOL" once again really isn't working for you as an effective argument.

___________________________

bloodenragedb14_ESO · April 2016

I am against Justice System PvP and I have played at least one game with Justice System PvP content in the past

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

Well the thing is it was me who was defining the term "PVE player" in relation to what I was saying about what PVE players would find love to have. So your definition of PVE player wasn't relevant to use in a rebuttal to my statement on what a PVE player would find enjoy.

Next time just say "I think" instead of bending or making up definitions as you please.
You don't represent "PvEers" here, by whatever definition. You just represent yourself.
And also please don't dismiss other people's opinions simply based on their "status" according to your self-made definitions.

i fail to see how you are not doing the same thing by implying @babylon opinions are any less valid

even if that is not your intent, that is the way you are coming across to me

bloodenragedb14_ESO · April 2016

I am against Justice System PvP and I have played at least one game with Justice System PvP content in the past

babylon wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

I'm not sure you can say "speaking as a PVE player" with a straight face

Regardless, if ZOS would just make PVE only versions of IC and Cyrodiil, I think PVE players would enjoy having access to those areas greatly. Could even add in more mobs and trees into Cyrodiil again so it looks like it should, before all the nerfs to the environment due to PVP lag.

If I understand you well, a PVE'er's opinion isn't valid "because reasons", a PVP'er's opinion isn't valid "because reasons", but you feel entitled to say "we PVE'ers" with full legitimacy ?

Lol.

I'm not sure you read/understood my post or maybe you're trying to misrepresent my words, as you carefully and possibly deliberately snipped out the bits that make what I said make sense.

And as to your "LOL" rebuttal...I'm not sure I can work with that, really seems not very well argued

A PVP'er gave his opinion, you told him/her he can't speak for PvEers
A PvE'er gave his opinion, you told him/her he can't speak for PvEers either.
But you say "we PvEers" instead of "I, babylon" when you give your own opinion.

So yes : LoL ;-)

The definitions of PVE players were simply misunderstood by that poster, nothing more. Doing PVE even if it's done more often is not the same as not enjoying PVP or even being completely against PVP. So while he does PVE a lot, that doesn't make him a "PVE player" in the sense that he really wouldn't want to step foot in PVP zones (maybe only to get skillpoints or skills and disliking it while there) or never stepping foot in PVP zones at all. Tuns out he just does PVE a lot, yet enjoys PVP, and we're discussing people who will never or will actively avoid using PVP zones. And those who would likely leave the game if PVP was brought into PVE zones.

And obviously a PVP player can't speak for PVE players same as PVE players don't try to speak for PVP players.

And "LOL" once again really isn't working for you as an effective argument.

ok, again, can we please drop the who is what and get back to discussing something more relevant, both of you, perhaps me as well, QUIT IT

Knightpanther · April 2016

I am against Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the past

I'm PVE and don't mind a bit of fun with this thieves guild stuff and was used to getting in trouble with opposite faction guards in EQ, but I have no interest in PvP and feel that if it went that way I would lose a small exciting part of the game.

Be safe

babylon · April 2016

I am against Justice System PvP and I have played at least one game with Justice System PvP content in the past

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

I'm not sure you can say "speaking as a PVE player" with a straight face

Regardless, if ZOS would just make PVE only versions of IC and Cyrodiil, I think PVE players would enjoy having access to those areas greatly. Could even add in more mobs and trees into Cyrodiil again so it looks like it should, before all the nerfs to the environment due to PVP lag.

If I understand you well, a PVE'er's opinion isn't valid "because reasons", a PVP'er's opinion isn't valid "because reasons", but you feel entitled to say "we PVE'ers" with full legitimacy ?

Lol.

I'm not sure you read/understood my post or maybe you're trying to misrepresent my words, as you carefully and possibly deliberately snipped out the bits that make what I said make sense.

And as to your "LOL" rebuttal...I'm not sure I can work with that, really seems not very well argued

A PVP'er gave his opinion, you told him/her he can't speak for PvEers
A PvE'er gave his opinion, you told him/her he can't speak for PvEers either.
But you say "we PvEers" instead of "I, babylon" when you give your own opinion.

So yes : LoL ;-)

The definitions of PVE players were simply misunderstood by that poster, nothing more. Doing PVE even if it's done more often is not the same as not enjoying PVP or even being completely against PVP. So while he does PVE a lot, that doesn't make him a "PVE player" in the sense that he really wouldn't want to step foot in PVP zones (maybe only to get skillpoints or skills and disliking it while there) or never stepping foot in PVP zones at all. Tuns out he just does PVE a lot, yet enjoys PVP, and we're discussing people who will never or will actively avoid using PVP zones. And those who would likely leave the game if PVP was brought into PVE zones.

And obviously a PVP player can't speak for PVE players same as PVE players don't try to speak for PVP players.

And "LOL" once again really isn't working for you as an effective argument.

ok, again, can we please drop the who is what and get back to discussing something more relevant, both of you, perhaps me as well, QUIT IT

I agree, we should be able to just discuss things sensibly without nitpicking over things like this (or having to defend against some nitpicking).

Van_0S · April 2016

I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the past

OP, don't you think its quite easy for the devs to make justice system in PvP?

Just change the faction color to black or any other color and that player is considered as an outlaw faction.

So, that outlaw player will have a separate zone which will be close to the IC sewer entrance.

How this will work?
Well, when the player exceeds his bounty to 35k/ willing to join the outlaw faction he will be hunted but not in the outlaw refugee.(PvP only)

That outlaw player will be able to loot from players gold similar to IC TV stones.

So, a new outlaw skills will be unlocked when that player joins the outlaw factionand vise versa similar to vamp/werewolf skills or emperor skill locks.

anitajoneb17_ESO · April 2016

I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the past

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

Well the thing is it was me who was defining the term "PVE player" in relation to what I was saying about what PVE players would find love to have. So your definition of PVE player wasn't relevant to use in a rebuttal to my statement on what a PVE player would find enjoy.

Next time just say "I think" instead of bending or making up definitions as you please.
You don't represent "PvEers" here, by whatever definition. You just represent yourself.
And also please don't dismiss other people's opinions simply based on their "status" according to your self-made definitions.

i fail to see how you are not doing the same thing by implying @babylon opinions are any less valid

even if that is not your intent, that is the way you are coming across to me

His/her opinion IS valid. There's no questioning that. Even if I disagree with it.
My issue is simply that it is not presented as his/her opinion, but as "all PVEers' " opinion, and then tries to dismiss all PvEers diverging opinions by "demonstrating" that they are not "real PvEers" or for some reason don't fit into his/her own definition of PvEers.
I am a PvEer and I disagree with him/her. I always have problems when people use "we" instead of "I", especially when the "we" involves me.

My ultimate point being that even if PvEers and PvPers are mostly at each other's throat here on the forum, there are tons of people ingame who enjoy both and who enjoy the PvPvE mix in Cyrodiil and IC (admittedly not as many as ZOS would have hoped, unfortunately).

Shadesofkin · April 2016

I am against Justice System PvP and I have played at least one game with Justice System PvP content in the past

Ultimately, people are sort of naturally terrible, internet people doubly so (Including myself). Tea-Bagging the low level Players who come out of Coldharbour after murdering them without regard to any other consequences *will* happen if full game PvP was allowed via the Justice System. This will ruin the fun of far too many people to be a valid option as of now.

I'll support a PvP form of the Justice System if I can opt out of with a simple toggle of "Cannot be killed outside of Cyrodil" in the gameplay options but still enjoy the Thieves Guild Content.

bloodenragedb14_ESO · April 2016

I am against Justice System PvP and I have played at least one game with Justice System PvP content in the past

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

Well the thing is it was me who was defining the term "PVE player" in relation to what I was saying about what PVE players would find love to have. So your definition of PVE player wasn't relevant to use in a rebuttal to my statement on what a PVE player would find enjoy.

Next time just say "I think" instead of bending or making up definitions as you please.
You don't represent "PvEers" here, by whatever definition. You just represent yourself.
And also please don't dismiss other people's opinions simply based on their "status" according to your self-made definitions.

i fail to see how you are not doing the same thing by implying @babylon opinions are any less valid

even if that is not your intent, that is the way you are coming across to me

His/her opinion IS valid. There's no questioning that. Even if I disagree with it.
My issue is simply that it is not presented as his/her opinion, but as "all PVEers' " opinion, and then tries to dismiss all PvEers diverging opinions by "demonstrating" that they are not "real PvEers" or for some reason don't fit into his/her own definition of PvEers.
I am a PvEer and I disagree with him/her. I always have problems when people use "we" instead of "I", especially when the "we" involves me.

My ultimate point being that even if PvEers and PvPers are mostly at each other's throat here on the forum, there are tons of people ingame who enjoys both and who enjoy the PvPvE mix in Cyrodiil and IC (admittedly not as many as ZOS would have hoped, unfortunately).

my ultimate point is that a great deal of the pve vs pvp conflicts would dry up if ONE campaign of cyrodiil would be made completly pve

just one

if you dont like that kind of thing, you wont have to enter it

however i, and many of my friends, would greatly enjoy such a anxiety free place

babylon · April 2016

I am against Justice System PvP and I have played at least one game with Justice System PvP content in the past

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

Well the thing is it was me who was defining the term "PVE player" in relation to what I was saying about what PVE players would find love to have. So your definition of PVE player wasn't relevant to use in a rebuttal to my statement on what a PVE player would find enjoy.

Next time just say "I think" instead of bending or making up definitions as you please.
You don't represent "PvEers" here, by whatever definition. You just represent yourself.
And also please don't dismiss other people's opinions simply based on their "status" according to your self-made definitions.

i fail to see how you are not doing the same thing by implying @babylon opinions are any less valid

even if that is not your intent, that is the way you are coming across to me

His/her opinion IS valid. There's no questioning that. Even if I disagree with it.
My issue is simply that...

Shall we just drop this, I made my point clearly and if you refuse to understand what I said then there's no reason to continue along the same line of discussion. The posts you're highlighting by quoting them repeatedly are a very petty and trivial part of the topic. Move this on shall we...or better yet in my opinion drop it and accept ZOS have done the right thing, and hope they go further and give us PVE versions of IC and Cyrodiil

Ideally all areas could have two versions, same way quest instances are phased yet appear the same (but with mobs that are suddenly friendly instead of hostile, and so on).

The PVE players could have PVE IC and PVE Cyrodiil, as well as being able to group up with any faction in the open world, and the PVP players could have a PVP version of all open world areas, with PVE areas and PVP areas being phased and separate.

Could have a tickbox where we choose to only be in the PVE or the PVP phased areas - automatically being put there when zoning/teleporting/leaving dungeons and delves and other submaps, and also have the option to have it so we choose each time we zone/teleport to a wayshrine/etc. Letting the people choose in other words.

That would make everybody happy in my opinion.We could all have what we wanted.

________________________________

anitajoneb17_ESO · April 2016

I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the past

babylon wrote: »

Move this on shall we...or better yet in my opinion drop it and accept ZOS have done the right thing, and hope they go further and give us PVE versions of IC and Cyrodiil

Yep, let's drop the "I" vs. "we" thing.

But IMHO ZOS hasn't done the right thing by dropping the PvP justice system (I just assume they were forced to due to players not being able to "behave"...) and, hell no, they should never ever make a PvP-free instance of Cyrodiil and IC (the argument that I'd not have to go there if I don't like it is not valid, because such an instance would impact all other campaigns. It was MEANT to be PvPvE from the start and should remain so, entirely. If you want 100% PvE, you have 95% of the game all for that. Leave Cyro alone).

Divinius · April 2016

I am against Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the past

Not to get wrapped up in this (rather ridiculous) debate, but the main problem is that I see people use the terms "PvE players" and "PvP players" as though they are the only two types of players in the game, and that the distinction between them is black and white. They are simply very poor classifications to lump all players into.

There's a huge difference between a "PvE" player who simply enjoys PvE gameplay more than PvP but who may or may not also choose to participate in PvP from time to time, and a player who is actually "Anti-PvP".

The former may have no issues with an optional PvP system existing in a game, but the latter isn't going to play that game unless PvP is something that he can completely and totally avoid to the point of being able to pretend it doesn't exist.

While I'm sure a PvP justice system could be implemented that would be acceptable to the first group, they would be hard pressed to implement the system in a way that would be tolerable to the latter.

And while I'm sure that the "completely Anti-PvP" crowd is not a very large percentage of players, it's obviously a significant enough percentage that ZOS wouldn't want to lose them as customers.

babylon · April 2016

I am against Justice System PvP and I have played at least one game with Justice System PvP content in the past

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

Move this on shall we...or better yet in my opinion drop it and accept ZOS have done the right thing, and hope they go further and give us PVE versions of IC and Cyrodiil

...hell no, they should never ever make a PvP-free instance of Cyrodiil and IC (the argument that I'd not have to go there if I don't like it is not valid, because such an instance would impact all other campaigns. It was MEANT to be PvPvE from the start and should remain so, entirely. If you want 100% PvE, you have 95% of the game all for that. Leave Cyro alone).

It would be nicer to open the maps up rather than not doing this. I really can't see any reason to not open the maps up so we have PVE and PVP versions of areas.

It wouldn't affect anyone adversely - people would simply go where they preferred...and if letting people have that choice is perceived by you as affecting you, then you might want to accept you have no rights to control the choices others make, where choices exist.

BenLocoDete · April 2016

I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the past

Jaronking wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

...you want to try and convince everyone that IC was this massive success. Why did they decide to not mix PVP and PVE anymore if it was such a resounding success? Answer me that one.

They just need to make Imperial City into a PVE version of IC, and then it would be a success for sure. I hope they do that, it sounds like it would be a fun area without all the bottomfeeder players trying to wreck your game experience for you.

@ZOS - please make us a PVE version of Imperial City

Cannot see a PvE version of Imperial City doing well.

It would be a great quest zone if made into a PVE version (so there would be two versions, one PVP and one PVE and you choose when entering zone). Loads of people have expressed wanting there to be a PVE version of IC because it's an interesting place (scenery totally wasted on PVPers who could just as easily be thrown into a featureless pit and be happy). Bet you anything it would quickly become populated, far more than the PVP version.

And sell more too.

...and people would not care to grind there anymore,

Who wants the grind anyway, PVE players would be there to enjoy the quests and the scenery. Is such a waste having that whole area there and having so few of the player base using it. With a PVE version the area would get to be used (as well as sell many more copies of the DLC). Also the same should happen for Cyrodiil (add in a PVE version).

_________________________

it seems all the drama between pvp and pve'ers can be solved by simply added a fully pve campaign of cyrodiil

someone at zos better be frigging reading this thread

Yea if they do this they should also add a Full PVP enabled Tamerial.Please someone at ZOS read this it will fix some many problems if they enabled PVP everywhere.

It seems that one big flag is to keep PvP inside Cyrodiil and nowhere else. So I'd like to suggest some modifications to address the huge criminal activity happening and how to partially still implement the second part of the original justice system:

I'd add that in this system, hostility anywhere outside of Cyrodiil must and will be discouraged, except in the arenas present on the greatest cities of each province.

- If you want to pick a side in the justice system, you must invest on one of the available skill lines(much like picking a pocket, a lock or stealing gives you the Legerdemain skill line, one small quest where you simply communicate your disposition for guard recruitment and have to report a crime gives you the law enforcer skill) and you won't be flagged to any side or be able to kill guards or report criminals until you commit yourself to one of those skill lines.

Outlaws:
- Every criminal act will advance your Legerdemain skill line;
As the skill increases, it ranks the character with an "up-to-no-good" flag that only those wearing a guard tabard will be able to notice. Guards will remain invincible to everyone except those investing enough time and effort into the Legerdemain skill line(maybe tier 5 gives you the ability to kill a guard). Other passives builds up your outlaws abilities.

Law Enforcers:
- Will have a "Press X to report crime" available when a crime happens around them;
Much like the synergy abilities, you'll be able to call out for a guard to pursue the criminal. Once you put on your tabard, you'll notice the "suspected" characters(high ranked Legerdemain) around you and can follow them if you want. If they commit a crime, the criminal will glow red to you for a brief moment, and the report crime window will pop up. Reporting a crime will advance your Law Enforcer skill line and build up passives based on law and righteousness.

This way, players won't engage against each other but still be able to raise a big "Watch Out criminal sc..." for outlaws everywhere, forcing them to organise themselves if they want to beat the law enforcers and go on with their criminal activity - also, neutral PvP would only happen inside arenas in the greatest cities of each province. as it has been confirmed to be on the works.

Korah_Eaglecry · April 2016

My biggest concern for Justice System PvP is how exactly it would have been implemented without forcing PvEers (where the Justice System is active) to take part in the PvP system. And more importantly how it would prevent cities from turning into warzones with entire guilds or groups "laying siege" to the town.

I feel as if the introduction of PvP to the Justice System would of been the utter end of the system for the vast majority who take part in it. If youre a non PvPer why risk it? And for PvPers it would of been the ultimate gank fest. All you have to do is hang round the city long enough for someone to make the mistake/choice of stealing something or assaulting someone and now youre killing them before they even know whats happening. And if theyre able to escape the city theres nothing preventing the PvPer from hunting them down. If they player is new and doesnt have a ton of CP points, is lower leveled, doesnt have a fully upgraded horse for speed. The PvPer is going to win time and again. Where is the fun in that for anyone BUT the guy taking advantage of the Bounty System? And then theres the Outlaw Refuges. How safe will they be? PvPers only need to camp the entrances. Suddenly its Imperial City all over again.

I personally PvP often. And I think they made the right decision of not including the PvP portion of this system. It would only turn into a headache for everyone NOT into PvP while feeding the psychopathic/sadist behavior of gankers.

CyrusArya · April 2016

I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the past

Shame to see this topic derailed like this, but absolutely no to PvE cyrodiil and IC. Literally 95% of the game is open to you to role play in peace w/e, but you can't tolerate 2 zones being exclusive for us PvPers? If you demand PvE versions of our turf, I demand PvP versions of your turf. Does that sound fair to you? If not, stay in your lane or learn to adapt to enjoy the different aspects of the game..

The content is right there, and nothing keeping you from enjoying it.

The bottom line is, resources spent on making PvE instanced Cyrodiil and IC are a complete waste of money that could be spent on better things rather than rehashing old content.

[Edited to remove insulting content]

bloodenragedb14_ESO · April 2016

I am against Justice System PvP and I have played at least one game with Justice System PvP content in the past

any further comments on the 'who is what', im ignoring

the best way for this subject to drop is to ignore it

not trying to be rude, just trying ot move things along

@Shadesofkin

if we could toggle such a flag, completly removing ourselves from any pvp in pve, id be amiable to a justice system, i woudnt be fond of it, but i wouldnt outright oppose it as i am now

read, the pvp flag turned off means no matter how high my bounty is, ill only be pursued by PVE elements

It might need tweeking to avoid abuse, such as if the flag is on while you have a bounty, you cant turn it off to escape players, only when your bounty is zero, or you are in a refuge, can you toggle it off

@anitajoneb17_ESO
im sorry you feel that way, but i am of the opinion it would, if all you want is to deny a pve campaign so that there are more cannon fodder, again that is how its coming off despite any intent you have, then i even more fervently want a pve instance of cyrodiil, these people like myself deserve a anxiety free experiance in cyrodiil

@babylon
Many mmo's have pvp servers and pve servers, if that was the price of getting a pve instance of cyrodiil, id be all for it.
And i dont see anything wrong with it either, looking at it from a vulcan logic perspective, there is no reason not to do it, the only percievable reason is that gankers no longer have prey, and i see nothing wrong with that, means the gankers will join larger battles rather than camping quest hubs

also, im donig my best to stay calm on this issue, i suggest everyone else to at lest attempt to do the same

JKorr · April 2016

I am against Justice System PvP and I have played at least one game with Justice System PvP content in the past

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

Move this on shall we...or better yet in my opinion drop it and accept ZOS have done the right thing, and hope they go further and give us PVE versions of IC and Cyrodiil

Yep, let's drop the "I" vs. "we" thing.

But IMHO ZOS hasn't done the right thing by dropping the PvP justice system (I just assume they were forced to due to players not being able to "behave"...) and, hell no, they should never ever make a PvP-free instance of Cyrodiil and IC (the argument that I'd not have to go there if I don't like it is not valid, because such an instance would impact all other campaigns. It was MEANT to be PvPvE from the start and should remain so, entirely. If you want 100% PvE, you have 95% of the game all for that. Leave Cyro alone).

I don't understand how a PVP free instance of Cyrodiil and IC would impact all other campaigns.

Unless the people who want pvp would suddenly all change their minds and head to the NO PVP instance instead. But if the huge attraction for them is the pvp, why would they?

Or are you assuming that all the people who are in the pvp areas because they have no other choice would head to the NO PVP instance to finish the skyshards and quests, leaving the "kill everyone all the time everywhere" players without targets to gank?

Two of my guilds periodically get groups together to go and hit the skyshards at least; sometimes a few quests. However none of us do anything for or against any faction while we're there. We have *zero* impact on the campaigns, unless our time spent gathering skyshards blocks players who actually *want* to pvp because of population caps. In which case the campaigns and pvp players would actually benefit from having a NO PVP instance.

Korah_Eaglecry · April 2016

CyrusArya wrote: »

Shame to see this topic derailed like this, but absolutely no to PvE cyrodiil and IC. Literally 95% of the game is open to you to role play in peace w/e, but you can't tolerate 2 zones being exclusive for us PvPers? If you demand PvE versions of our turf, I demand PvP versions of your turf. Does that sound fair to you? If not, stay in your lane or learn to adapt to enjoy the different aspects of the game..

The content is right there, and nothing keeping you from enjoying it.

The bottom line is, resources spent on making PvE instanced Cyrodiil and IC are a complete waste of money that could be spent on better things rather than rehashing old content.

Yet you think bringing PvP to the PvE areas is a good idea? Do you know what the meaning of hypocrite is?

babylon · April 2016

I am against Justice System PvP and I have played at least one game with Justice System PvP content in the past

BenLocoDete wrote: »

Law Enforcers:
- Will have a "Press X to report crime" available when a crime happens around them;
Much like the synergy abilities, you'll be able to call out for a guard to pursue the criminal. Once you put on your tabard, you'll notice the "suspected" characters(high ranked Legerdemain) around you and can follow them if you want. If they commit a crime, the criminal will glow red to you for a brief moment, and the report crime window will pop up. Reporting a crime will advance your Law Enforcer skill line and build up passives based on law and righteousness.

This way, players won't engage against each other but still be able to raise a big "Watch Out criminal sc..."...

Only problem with this is there are way too many players, which would make stealing a real impossibility (equalling much less fun for each player). As it is now with just needing to avoid NPC line of sight rather than player line of sight, the Justice System is just fine - you still have to plan your timing. With all the players around, and many bored enough to just sit at a spot and troll people all day for that schadenfreude feeling, stealing would suddenly become something more of a chore than a fun activity.

Shadesofkin · April 2016

I am against Justice System PvP and I have played at least one game with Justice System PvP content in the past

@bloodenragedb14_ESO

DCUO had a timer, if you turned on the PvP flag and then turned it off right away, it was stuck there for at least 5 minutes (it would go away in 5 if nothing happened, but stuck around if you engaged in ANY PvP).

My reasoning behind the opt out option making me more likely to support a PvP system has always been my experience with DCUO which had tons of open world PvP at one point and sure enough...villains camped the tracks around Gotham City PD and some so called "heroes" did the same for the Villains hideout. It was awful and we had to have entire gangs of Hero Leagues rush the campers just to go do missions, let alone what would happen if we were caught out in the open by those villains.

anitajoneb17_ESO · April 2016

I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the past

JKorr wrote: »

I don't understand how a PVP free instance of Cyrodiil and IC would impact all other campaigns.

Obviously you're not the only one. Let's put it simply :

As it is, PvE and PvP are mixed into what is the exact purpose of Cyrodiil and what it's designed for : PvPvE.
If there is one PvP-free instance, all PvE will be done there, PvP campaigns will be 100% PvP, PvPvE is nowhere to be found and the whole design is wasted (and wrong). It would make the PvE map boring (it was not designed for pure PvE) and the PvP maps meh (besides the keeps, none of Cyrodiil was designed for that either).

Got it ?

Frankly, noone needs one more 100% PvE map when 95% of the game is 100% PvE already.

Samadhi · April 2016

I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have played at least one game with Justice System PvP content in the past

babylon wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

.

babylon wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

...With a PVE version the area would get to be used (as well as sell many more copies of the DLC). Also the same should happen for Cyrodiil (add in a PVE version).
...

PvE versions would remove the appeal along with the rewards stripped out in rebalancing the zones...PvE versions would not have the player retention compared to the team investing in new zones.

Nope, PVE players would love to have PVE versions of IC and Cyrodiil, I don't think you can possibly speak for what we'd find appealing...certainly having PVP stripped out would greatly increase those zones' appeal to PVE players.
...

Speaking as a PvE player, would hate pure PvE versions of IC and Cyrodiil.

By PVE player you mean you don't like to PVP? Because everything you've said goes against that. PVE players tend to dabble in PVP but don't enjoy it all that much, or don't enjoy it at all...most PVE players have set foot in PVP zones, but just don't enjoy it enough to go back often, if ever at all.

I'm not sure you can say "speaking as a PVE player" with a straight face

Being a PvE player means that I primarily play PvE content, nothing more.

Well the thing is it was me who was defining the term "PVE player" ...

Which appears to have been the issue. You were trying to make your own definition, rather than abide by the definition that already exists.

If you had said "some PvE players" rather than applying it as a blanket term to all of us, would not have spoken up.
But you assigned a blanket term to all of us, so took a moment to point out that your statement does not actually apply to all of us.

babylon wrote: »

...
The main point to keep in mind however, is opening up areas to include more people rather than less people, would only be a positive move for the game. So a PVE version of IC and a PVE version of Cyrodiil would be welcomed as more people could then get to use those areas and explore, and quest.

Could really get behind a sentiment like that, if it went both ways (such as completing the PvP Justice system and adding the PvE Enforcer content as well).
Otherwise, would prefer ZOS just sticks to giving us new zones rather than rehashing old ones.

The good part about Cyrodiil and IC is that they are already open to PvE players.