Hybrid builds need some love

Lynx7386 · April 2016

Hybrids have half the action bar real estate, two resource pools to attend, and have to split their points between a lot more trees... why does everything in this game make it difficult to pay a hybrid character?

It'd be nice if we had some skill tree or armor options that would alleviate this. I'm suck of only seeing stamina or magicka builds dominating the game.

UltimaJoe777 · April 2016

Fight the fire or get out of the kitchen.

failkiwib16_ESO · April 2016

There are lots of successful hybrid builds for pve and pvp, however they are usually support roles in pve. The only role that is dominated by pure mag or stam users is Damage Dealers.

This shouldn't be a problem or an issue, unless you want to achieve as high dps as a pure magicka or stamina user, meanwhile you don't run a dedicated build for it.

Rune_Relic · April 2016

We dont need more bandaids.
We need proper balancing.

I agree on the problem though.

Lynx7386 · April 2016

I really think the bonuses for 5 pieces of the same armor type should be dropped to a 4 piece requirement. That way you're still using a majority of one armor type, but can get some benefit out of a second type. 4 medium + 3 light or 3 medium + 4 light should be a viable option.

phaneub17_ESO · April 2016

Play a Sorc, you give up one Ultimate slot for 5 more action bar slots.

Eirikir · April 2016

Didn't the DEVs say somewhere a bit back that thwy were planning to uncouple the streangth of attacks (both stam and magic) from their resource pool size?

GreenSoup2HoT · April 2016

Lynx7386 wrote: »

I really think the bonuses for 5 pieces of the same armor type should be dropped to a 4 piece requirement.

I personally would rather the 5 piece bonuses just include both sources of penetration or damage. Light Armour gives physical and magic penetration and medium give's weapon and spell damage.

Sallington · April 2016

Bring back soft caps.

Done.

Wollust · April 2016

Hybrids don't work well in an environment where maxing out one single stat is by far the best way to go.
Not much you can do about it.

#softcapspls

UltimaJoe777 · April 2016

Min/maxers will tell you specialize or you suck pretty much, but anyone with the skill to back up their way to play will find it works just fine. You can either give up what you enjoy because you don't think it's good or you can grow with your build and challenge the system.

Shadesofkin · April 2016

I see a few hybrid builds in support roles in Trials that aren't going for Leaderboard runs, they're fun and we have a good time and they do their job, but it might not kill ZoS to give some love to the hybrids.

ColoursYouHave · April 2016

As several others have said, removing soft caps pretty much destroyed hybrid builds.

UltimaJoe777 · April 2016

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

As several others have said, removing soft caps pretty much destroyed hybrid builds.

Only if all you care about is doing as much damage as possible in the game, in which case you never wanted a hybrid build in the first place.

CP5 · April 2016

Eirikir wrote: »

Didn't the DEVs say somewhere a bit back that thwy were planning to uncouple the streangth of attacks (both stam and magic) from their resource pool size?

When asked a few shows ago they did say that was planned, but they also hinted that it was linked to a lot of 'behind the scenes' systems so who knows how long that will take and how much could break.

notimetocare · April 2016

Id prefer balance with what we have and leaving hybrid dead.

UltimaJoe777 · April 2016

notimetocare wrote: »

Id prefer balance with what we have and leaving hybrid dead.

Except it isn't dead. There is more out there than what the meta runs.

ostrapz · April 2016

Ive seen magicka characters with 2500+ wd without speccing it at all , which is pretty good imo. Using max foods and some weapon + spell damage boosters ( alchemist, kena, maelstrom daggers) couldnt you put out some decent numbers? You wouldnt need resource management as much. Consider a stam nb suprise attk hits about 2k-4k higher, a magicka spec with a bit into stam would still read a higher suprise attk tooltip than concealed weapon possibly.

notimetocare · April 2016

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

notimetocare wrote: »

Id prefer balance with what we have and leaving hybrid dead.

Except it isn't dead. There is more out there than what the meta runs.

Hybrid will never outperform a dedicated build. The game is setup that you can run hybrid, but it is bad for your group and it is bad in pvp.

Forestd16b14_ESO · April 2016

Hybrids died when soft caps were removed

ColoursYouHave · April 2016

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

As several others have said, removing soft caps pretty much destroyed hybrid builds.

Only if all you care about is doing as much damage as possible in the game, in which case you never wanted a hybrid build in the first place.

That really isn't true. All my builds focus around being well balanced in damage, survivability, and sustainability, and a hybrid build simply can't do this nearly as well as a dedicated magicka or stamina build. I've tried making hybrid builds before, and it simply doesn't work as well. Sure, you can do alright with a hybrid build, but don't expect to be at all competitive if you are intent on playing one...

mistermutiny89 · April 2016

Pretty sure heavy armour dragon knights are hybrid and borderline unkillable again but I'm terrible at running resources like that. I think once heavy armour gets a buff that influences all resource pools, hybrids of all classes will be a possibility in PVP at least. For end game PVE, doubtful. You need to kill most adds in vet maelstrom within about two seconds and there's no way hybrids could ever achieve this.

UltimaJoe777 · April 2016

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

As several others have said, removing soft caps pretty much destroyed hybrid builds.

Only if all you care about is doing as much damage as possible in the game, in which case you never wanted a hybrid build in the first place.

That really isn't true. All my builds focus around being well balanced in damage, survivability, and sustainability, and a hybrid build simply can't do this nearly as well as a dedicated magicka or stamina build. I've tried making hybrid builds before, and it simply doesn't work as well. Sure, you can do alright with a hybrid build, but don't expect to be at all competitive if you are intent on playing one...

Not every build is for everyone. Those that are proficient at hybrid builds and enjoy them find ways to make them work against all odds. Statistics alone do not rule over all.

dday3six · April 2016

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

As several others have said, removing soft caps pretty much destroyed hybrid builds.

Only if all you care about is doing as much damage as possible in the game, in which case you never wanted a hybrid build in the first place.

That really isn't true. All my builds focus around being well balanced in damage, survivability, and sustainability, and a hybrid build simply can't do this nearly as well as a dedicated magicka or stamina build. I've tried making hybrid builds before, and it simply doesn't work as well. Sure, you can do alright with a hybrid build, but don't expect to be at all competitive if you are intent on playing one...

Not every build is for everyone. Those that are proficient at hybrid builds and enjoy them find ways to make them work against all odds. Statistics alone do not rule over all.

You might want that to be true, but it simply isn't. Frankly do you have a VR16 character? Have you run endgame (WGT, ICP, VMSA, VMOL) content at VR16 before? It really comes off as if you have no idea what you're talking about.

UltimaJoe777 · April 2016

dday3six wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

As several others have said, removing soft caps pretty much destroyed hybrid builds.

Only if all you care about is doing as much damage as possible in the game, in which case you never wanted a hybrid build in the first place.

That really isn't true. All my builds focus around being well balanced in damage, survivability, and sustainability, and a hybrid build simply can't do this nearly as well as a dedicated magicka or stamina build. I've tried making hybrid builds before, and it simply doesn't work as well. Sure, you can do alright with a hybrid build, but don't expect to be at all competitive if you are intent on playing one...

Not every build is for everyone. Those that are proficient at hybrid builds and enjoy them find ways to make them work against all odds. Statistics alone do not rule over all.

You might want that to be true, but it simply isn't. Frankly do you have a VR16 character? Have you run endgame (WGT, ICP, VMSA, VMOL) content at VR16 before? It really comes off as if you have no idea what you're talking about.

Of course you would come just for the sake of arguing against me. You seem to do that a lot. Regardless of whether anyone thinks it's true or not that doesn't make it impossible. Statistics aside how well something works for someone is for them to decide, not the vast majority. If Zenimax provides something to improve the "statistical" advantage of hybrids then that's fine but I run gimped skill sets all the time while trying to rank them up despite how less effective they are so yes I do know what I am talking about considering I can make even those work in tight spots.

dday3six · April 2016

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

As several others have said, removing soft caps pretty much destroyed hybrid builds.

Only if all you care about is doing as much damage as possible in the game, in which case you never wanted a hybrid build in the first place.

That really isn't true. All my builds focus around being well balanced in damage, survivability, and sustainability, and a hybrid build simply can't do this nearly as well as a dedicated magicka or stamina build. I've tried making hybrid builds before, and it simply doesn't work as well. Sure, you can do alright with a hybrid build, but don't expect to be at all competitive if you are intent on playing one...

Not every build is for everyone. Those that are proficient at hybrid builds and enjoy them find ways to make them work against all odds. Statistics alone do not rule over all.

You might want that to be true, but it simply isn't. Frankly do you have a VR16 character? Have you run endgame (WGT, ICP, VMSA, VMOL) content at VR16 before? It really comes off as if you have no idea what you're talking about.

Of course you would come just for the sake of arguing against me. You seem to do that a lot. Regardless of whether anyone thinks it's true or not that doesn't make it impossible. Statistics aside how well something works for someone is for them to decide, not the vast majority. If Zenimax provides something to improve the "statistical" advantage of hybrids then that's fine but I run gimped skill sets all the time while trying to rank them up despite how less effective they are so yes I do know what I am talking about considering I can make even those work in tight spots.

Let's begin with a bit of framework. Being a Stamina build and dipping into Magicka utility skills isn't a hybrid build. A hybrid would try to balance damage and/or healing sources from both Stamina and Magicka skills. This approach limits potential by imposing a ceiling that skill cannot overcome.

Players might be abrasive to believing you because you're being rather vague. You didn't for instance, directly address my inquiry. "Tight Spots", isn't really explaining anything, it's a deflection. Then a "It works for me, so it's good" is fine for solo play. That's really were "play as you want" thrives. Though once you step into group content. That mindset displays an unwillingness to fullfill your role, and a selfishness by choosing to hold yourself back, unconcerned with the hinderance that choice applies to your team mates. Content does actually have a meter to measure success. Completion would be one metric on that scale.

'Feel Good' builds will absolutely brick wall progress in some content. Most players can run just about anything to level skills. That's most often done in a farming area. However, they're not going to do that when making serious attempts at VMOL or VMSA. Those pieces of content include dps checks, and a failure to meet that requirement results in a mission fail. That's but one example of why hybrids builds are not viable at the high end.

People are going to disagree with you. It's a part of life. You'll just have to get use to it. Some would even say that facing dissent builds character.

RAGUNAnoOne · April 2016

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

As several others have said, removing soft caps pretty much destroyed hybrid builds.

Only if all you care about is doing as much damage as possible in the game, in which case you never wanted a hybrid build in the first place.

And healing and defending and breaking free do I need to say more? there is more to that list.

UltimaJoe777 · April 2016

dday3six wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

As several others have said, removing soft caps pretty much destroyed hybrid builds.

Only if all you care about is doing as much damage as possible in the game, in which case you never wanted a hybrid build in the first place.

That really isn't true. All my builds focus around being well balanced in damage, survivability, and sustainability, and a hybrid build simply can't do this nearly as well as a dedicated magicka or stamina build. I've tried making hybrid builds before, and it simply doesn't work as well. Sure, you can do alright with a hybrid build, but don't expect to be at all competitive if you are intent on playing one...

Not every build is for everyone. Those that are proficient at hybrid builds and enjoy them find ways to make them work against all odds. Statistics alone do not rule over all.

You might want that to be true, but it simply isn't. Frankly do you have a VR16 character? Have you run endgame (WGT, ICP, VMSA, VMOL) content at VR16 before? It really comes off as if you have no idea what you're talking about.

Of course you would come just for the sake of arguing against me. You seem to do that a lot. Regardless of whether anyone thinks it's true or not that doesn't make it impossible. Statistics aside how well something works for someone is for them to decide, not the vast majority. If Zenimax provides something to improve the "statistical" advantage of hybrids then that's fine but I run gimped skill sets all the time while trying to rank them up despite how less effective they are so yes I do know what I am talking about considering I can make even those work in tight spots.

Let's begin with a bit of framework. Being a Stamina build and dipping into Magicka utility skills isn't a hybrid build. A hybrid would try to balance damage and/or healing sources from both Stamina and Magicka skills. This approach limits potential by imposing a ceiling that skill cannot overcome.

Players might be abrasive to believing you because you're being rather vague. You didn't for instance, directly address my inquiry. "Tight Spots", isn't really explaining anything, it's a deflection. Then a "It works for me, so it's good" is fine for solo play. That's really were "play as you want" thrives. Though once you step into group content. That mindset displays an unwillingness to fullfill your role, and a selfishness by choosing to hold yourself back, unconcerned with the hinderance that choice applies to your team mates. Content does actually have a meter to measure success. Completion would be one metric on that scale.

'Feel Good' builds will absolutely brick wall progress in some content. Most players can run just about anything to level skills. That's most often done in a farming area. However, they're not going to do that when making serious attempts at VMOL or VMSA. Those pieces of content include dps checks, and a failure to meet that requirement results in a mission fail. That's but one example of why hybrids builds are not viable at the high end.

People are going to disagree with you. It's a part of life. You'll just have to get use to it. Some would even say that facing dissent builds character.

Who says hybrids are limited to damage/healing? Magicka and Stamina are just as important to buffs and the like as they are to DPS and healing. If it's any consolation though I do have a hybrid by your description, Stamina DPS/Heals and Magicka Damage Shield.

By "tight spots" I mean tough fights both solo and group-wise. I am also aware not everyone has the same skill levels and those with higher skill levels will "do fine" with just about anything but I also believe people have the potential to be equal. I won't discriminate and say "you suck too much to use this so learn to min/max" or anything. Yes I am aware games like to "force" specific builds to complete specific content, but that doesn't mean something is lacking just because it isn't up to par. Where one thing is lacking at some things it also excels at others, whereas with other builds the opposite would be true.

I honestly don't care what kinds of dps checks there are I will challenge content with my desired build and triumph or or fail trying. I still won't change it though. I will simply get better and/or learn the mechanics to succeed. Stats really aren't the be all end all but if that is how you choose to perceive things I won't tell you not to, that's just not how I'd do it is all.

Of course everyone agrees and disagrees on things that's a given lol but if this is in regards to me saying you "came to argue me" I said that because most of the posts of yours I see ARE to argue whatever I say you disagree with. Apologies if that sounds biased but it's not exactly untrue. I don't hold it against you though, but it is quite suspect lol

dday3six · April 2016

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

As several others have said, removing soft caps pretty much destroyed hybrid builds.

Only if all you care about is doing as much damage as possible in the game, in which case you never wanted a hybrid build in the first place.

That really isn't true. All my builds focus around being well balanced in damage, survivability, and sustainability, and a hybrid build simply can't do this nearly as well as a dedicated magicka or stamina build. I've tried making hybrid builds before, and it simply doesn't work as well. Sure, you can do alright with a hybrid build, but don't expect to be at all competitive if you are intent on playing one...

Not every build is for everyone. Those that are proficient at hybrid builds and enjoy them find ways to make them work against all odds. Statistics alone do not rule over all.

You might want that to be true, but it simply isn't. Frankly do you have a VR16 character? Have you run endgame (WGT, ICP, VMSA, VMOL) content at VR16 before? It really comes off as if you have no idea what you're talking about.

Of course you would come just for the sake of arguing against me. You seem to do that a lot. Regardless of whether anyone thinks it's true or not that doesn't make it impossible. Statistics aside how well something works for someone is for them to decide, not the vast majority. If Zenimax provides something to improve the "statistical" advantage of hybrids then that's fine but I run gimped skill sets all the time while trying to rank them up despite how less effective they are so yes I do know what I am talking about considering I can make even those work in tight spots.

Let's begin with a bit of framework. Being a Stamina build and dipping into Magicka utility skills isn't a hybrid build. A hybrid would try to balance damage and/or healing sources from both Stamina and Magicka skills. This approach limits potential by imposing a ceiling that skill cannot overcome.

Players might be abrasive to believing you because you're being rather vague. You didn't for instance, directly address my inquiry. "Tight Spots", isn't really explaining anything, it's a deflection. Then a "It works for me, so it's good" is fine for solo play. That's really were "play as you want" thrives. Though once you step into group content. That mindset displays an unwillingness to fullfill your role, and a selfishness by choosing to hold yourself back, unconcerned with the hinderance that choice applies to your team mates. Content does actually have a meter to measure success. Completion would be one metric on that scale.

'Feel Good' builds will absolutely brick wall progress in some content. Most players can run just about anything to level skills. That's most often done in a farming area. However, they're not going to do that when making serious attempts at VMOL or VMSA. Those pieces of content include dps checks, and a failure to meet that requirement results in a mission fail. That's but one example of why hybrids builds are not viable at the high end.

People are going to disagree with you. It's a part of life. You'll just have to get use to it. Some would even say that facing dissent builds character.

Who says hybrids are limited to damage/healing? Magicka and Stamina are just as important to buffs and the like as they are to DPS and healing. If it's any consolation though I do have a hybrid by your description, Stamina DPS/Heals and Magicka Damage Shield.

By "tight spots" I mean tough fights both solo and group-wise. I am also aware not everyone has the same skill levels and those with higher skill levels will "do fine" with just about anything but I also believe people have the potential to be equal. I won't discriminate and say "you suck too much to use this so learn to min/max" or anything. Yes I am aware games like to "force" specific builds to complete specific content, but that doesn't mean something is lacking just because it isn't up to par. Where one thing is lacking at some things it also excels at others, whereas with other builds the opposite would be true.

I honestly don't care what kinds of dps checks there are I will challenge content with my desired build and triumph or or fail trying. I still won't change it though. I will simply get better and/or learn the mechanics to succeed. Stats really aren't the be all end all but if that is how you choose to perceive things I won't tell you not to, that's just not how I'd do it is all.

Of course everyone agrees and disagrees on things that's a given lol but if this is in regards to me saying you "came to argue me" I said that because most of the posts of yours I see ARE to argue whatever I say you disagree with. Apologies if that sounds biased but it's not exactly untrue. I don't hold it against you though, but it is quite suspect lol

A Magicka Damage Shield is a utility skill. If you have Stamina based dps and heals, and a magicka damage shield that is not a hybrid. You'd need to have tried to mix Stamina and Magicka dps and heals to be a hybrid. The reason it's limited to damage and/or healing is because tanking is going to be a majority utility skills regardless of whether they focus Stamina or Magicka. They are infact the only viable hybrids able to function in their role.

If you want to call out my skill, I'm not in the least threatened by it. However, I eagerly await a video of you completing VR16 Veteran Maelstrom Arena with a score that made it on the leaderboards using a hybrid, non-meta build. Preferably the one you believe your skill allows you to use to an equal effect as build that max/min, focusing one resouce. Please prove the skill that you tote is more than just a delusion of grandeur. Evidence rather than deflection is the best way to get people to actually believe you.

Bofrari · April 2016

It's way better now hybrid builds were boring.

Docmandu · April 2016

Isn't a magicka sorc in PvP by definition a hybrid?! Super DPS while being super Tanky... all hail the mighty shield stacks!