All I can imagine for PVP in the justice system is gankers waiting outside every Outlaws' Refuge.

PVP systems like this might sound fun in theory, but they're full of holes.
Definitely why ZOS scrapped the idea of having PVP as part of the system.

Against PVP Justice.
Haven't played in game with such before.

general comments follow.

OP, your video fails majestically in its stated attempt at being objective.

As to your logic that since we dont know anything specific about the implementation all the counter arguments about not wanting to be drug into PVP unwillingly or not wanting to be cut out of content by not wanting PVP etc etc are uninformed or invalid... LETS SAY YOU ARE CORRECT. lets say that is a valid argument.

So now, respond to this argument which equally nullifies all pro-Justice-PVP arguments: Its all about the implementation since it may force players into PVP unwillingly etc you just dont know so...

Saying "we dont know its gonna be bad for the game yet" is no more valid than saying "we dont know if it will be good for the game yet".

So to me, the "we dont know yet" POV cannot be applied to only one side of the discussion.

However, if it is applied to both, their is no discussion of any substance.

So to me that whole line of reasoning, which is the underpinning repeated often thru your video, is useless at best, self-defeating at worst.

What we DO KNOW I think is the following:

What is being discussed and what is being desired by the PVP crowd in favor of it is a full, open world PVP component possibly linked with the Justice system. I myself doubt they would be happy with a PVP_Justice Zone which left the bulk of the world as it is now, non-PVP.

There are more PVEers than PVPers, and more "exclusive PVE" than "exclusive PVPers" and much more "exclusive PVE area/content" than "exclusive PVP area/content " in the game as it stands now.

There is NO CHANCE based on what the system seems to be of this system forcing MORE PVE on dedicated PVPers.
I dont recall a lot of discussions about "and we will make PVPers play thru a bunch more PVE quests to join justice".

There is the definite chance that turning the whole world into a PVP possible zone will expose PVEers to PVP.

So, there is a lot more risk to the PVE crowd in general of being slammed with something they didn't want to engage in at all - depending on the yet undetermined implementation.

So, to me, it seems very unwise to take such a big step towards an open PVP world in a game where frankly, the majority seems happy with PVE and a highly vocal minority of PVPers seem to not be helping their case for "joint content" through their ongoing constant daily rancor.

My opinion is STRONGLY influenced by the differences in posts tone, content, civility on this forum by PVPers vs PVEers.
My opinion was also reinforced by your video which could not succeed in the least at not being basically dismissive of opposing views with the you dont know its bad yet mantra.

Sorry, but, nothing in the PVP-justice proposal ever appealed to me, it is massive in scope, it FIXES no problems and the fact that in an ideal world it may never involve me doesn't give me anything to outweigh the potential downsides if it goes awry.

PVPers not getting open world is not as bad a PVEers getting slammed everywhere.

To quote Natasha Romanov probably badly "There is no math in that."

It all depends on how it's put in and how the system would work. I voted no because I'm being cautious to the implementation of the system. I could easily be swayed to yes if the system was similar to what ever game it was that you mentioned @Lefty_Lucy in your video.

If they used that system and made it a toggle in your settings (default off) to participate, I would be for it. But if the only way you can pick pockets or break into houses was to opt into the system then I'd say no. Now if the system was I had to opt in, but I had to have a bounty of lets say 500-1000 gold before the PVP flag switched on, then I'd be for that as long as the gold I'm worth goes to the player who killed me. Honestly I think it would have to be a 1000g+ to get a pvp flag. This way it will give enough time for someone who doesn't want to get attacked by players to clear their bounty while giving those who do want the "surprise PVP" feel away to have it. But at the same time, if that system would be put in then guards would need to be kill-able.

So as you see, I'm not a sound no, nor am I a sound yes. I tend to view things as objectively as possible and look at it from all sides before making my answer. And really it's hard to say with a resounding yes or no to this type of system until you actually see how it'll work. I picked no, because a lot of these systems are poorly done in my experience.

And wow.... this was necro'd.

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

Why the revival of this zombie thread?, I thought they'd already decided not o do this.

They decided not to do this even before this thread was made.

But having players act as guards is a whole big difference.

Guards dont camp outside the KNOWN TO PLAYER entrances to thief dens.

Guards mostlt dont camp on top of quest hot spots where theft is likely and patrol around.

Players running PVP chars looking for PVE kills are about as far from a guard as they could be.

I love this Guy ...And i think ZOS need to listen to LEFTY... He is always reasonable....And Why people scared to play a game with other players.:D...

I view it this way...

ZOS decided on this course of action after seeing the response to Imperial City. The intent of the system was that we could have game play where the players could opt in and out. If a player opts in, there is PVP between the guards and the criminals, otherwise it plays like it plays today. If Imperial City taught us anything, this is not an attractive option to the bulk of the players. As a thief, why do I want to risk running across some player that will kill me and take my stuff if I have the option to opt out and just walk right by them?

The people who would opt in to the PVP Justice System would likely end up playing coordinated cops and robbers. They probably could not just walk the world as a guard looking for perps. They would have to arrange a meet. While I am sure that the PVP community would love this, what it would become is just a dueling system. If they are going to do a dueling system, they don't need to go to all the effort to add it to the Justice System. They could just do it like World of Warcraft and add an <F> interact for "Wanna duel me, or are you chicken?".

The PVP Justice System is a cool idea, but not for ESO.

For the 1000th time. No pvp outside of designated pvp areas. Period. From the head guy's mouth.

Jaronking wrote: »

its the perfect balance and solution to most PVEr concern it keeps PVPer from camping out each other bases.

Yes, yes, because PVPers all agreeing on what "perfect balsnce" means and their belief in ZoS to achieve it is sern daily on these forums.

Done here.

Not going to happen, wasn't going to happen even when this necro'd thread was started. ZOS have made it absolutely clear that they remain committed to both PvP and PvE but that they won't be combined in the same areas from now on. People need to accept it and move on, a dead horse can only be flogged so far. How about contributing instead to the shaping of the new PvP content that we know is coming?

ZOS learned from IC that players simply cannot be trusted with the enforcer role. Thats why they cancelled it. These guys keep making all these excuses but in the end what they wish is a bunch of victims who cannot fight back. Do you guys honestly think people are going to buy a DLC where they will be paying to be farmed by people who did NOT buy the DLC? Seriously? Or pay to be farmed period? Did the utter failure of IC teach nothing?

Anzriel wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

ZOS learned from IC that players simply cannot be trusted with the enforcer role. Thats why they cancelled it. These guys keep making all these excuses but in the end what they wish is a bunch of victims who cannot fight back. Do you guys honestly think people are going to buy a DLC where they will be paying to be farmed by people who did NOT buy the DLC? Seriously? Or pay to be farmed period? Did the utter failure of IC teach nothing?

You do realize time and again in this very thread it was pointed out that it could/should be made into an opt-in system where if you want to avoid pvp you can, right? As in the ONLY way you can get pked is if you open up settings and toggle it on. Otherwise you can't be killed even if you steal something. It amazes me how people can offer a reasonable solution on these forums and you still have people terrified of pvp running to the forums to try to make sure it doesn't happen. The funny thing is, this idea is already dead in the water but you still have people reacting this way.

Again no. Noone is going to buy a DLC then learn they cant do anything without being attacked by other players. Noone is "terrified" of pvp. Just if we want to pvp we have designated areas to do so. Thats where PVP will happen. Not across the open world. So your idea is silly and would be wasted money. ZOS has canned the player "enforcer" role. End of story time to move on.