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Would you like to see Public Dungeons balanced for hunting in groups of 4 or more added to the game?
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GaldorP✭✭✭✭✭
I don't understand it. I've played MMOGs like Ragnarok Online or Lineage II where the type of activity I'm suggesting here was like 90% of the game at some point. Is it that absurd to think about the possibility to have something like that in ESO? O_oA lot of people around here don't like group content. Goodness knows why. They play this game basically as a single player game, and sadly Zenimax is making less and less group content and more solo stuff.1 -
GaldorP✭✭✭✭✭
Not massive, just as good as Public dungeons are for groups of 1-2.Rune_Relic wrote: »
No, like open non-instanced zones with strong monsters where groups of more than 2 players can continuously hunt for XP and loot comparable to what you would get from soloing in a Public dungeon for the same amount of time.you mean like veteran dungeons?
Edit: And other groups and players would be in the same zone with you (which is why it should be at least as large as let's say Old Orsinium).
You mean you want a grinding zone ?
With no function other than massive xp, gold and gear.0 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't care.I think they just could increase difficulty like at PC launch and it be fine.
Increased difficulty and therefore increased exp per kill.
I would like for those who want to grind them to be phased out from others.
Edited by NewBlacksmurf on April 17, 2016 2:55PM-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
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MercyKilling✭✭✭✭✭Yes.So, there was this MMO I used to play before it got shut down that had a problem. People playing it "street swept" mobs, meaning that nobody did the missions or story lines in the game.
How did THOSE developers solve this problem? Certainly not by nerfing street mob xp, nosiree.
Instead, they applied a bonus to all mission rewards that applied to EVERYONE on the team, the larger the team, the larger the bonus. Full teams of eight got the max applicable bonus to their individual drops, mission xp and other rewards. This was just the incentive needed to "coerce" people into grinding missions together.
Oh, and missions were INSTANCED, not open world. The exclusion of team instanced missions from this game was a very large development mistake, IMNSHO.I am not spending a single penny on the game until changes are made to the game that I want to see.
1) Remove having to be in a guild to sell items to other players at a kiosk.
2) Cosmetic modding for armor and clothing.
3) Difficulty slider.
4) Fully customizable player housing that isn't tied to anything in the game other than having the correct resources and enough gold to build. Don't tie it to PvP, guild membership, or anything at all. Oh, make it instanced so as not to take up world map space, too. Zeni screwed this one up already.
Any /one/ of these things implemented would get me spending again, maybe even subbing.0 -
GaldorP✭✭✭✭✭
But that would just make grinding alone or in a group of 2 even better for XP (and it already is the best way to gain XP by far). The dungeons would still be easy enough to solo on a good build (they were easy enough to solo before the nerf).NewBlacksmurf wrote: »I think they just could increase difficulty like at PC launch and it be fine.
Increased difficulty and therefore increased exp per kill.0 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't care.
But that would just make grinding alone or in a group of 2 even better for XP (and it already is the best way to gain XP by far). The dungeons would still be easy enough to solo on a good build (they were easy enough to solo before the nerf).NewBlacksmurf wrote: »I think they just could increase difficulty like at PC launch and it be fine.
Increased difficulty and therefore increased exp per kill.
...at launch, they were harder but I'm saying not solo-able for any build and on top of that, increase the exp along with that difficulty.
I made an edit as well to phase out groups from non-groups as that logic makes sense for grinders vs those who want to remain solo but play through with others. Not sure how else it would phase so maybe 4 or more is phased out.
Edited by NewBlacksmurf on April 17, 2016 2:58PM-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
GaldorP✭✭✭✭✭
Ok, so that would more or less turn the existing Public Dungeons into what I suggested as new Public Group Dungeons I guess?NewBlacksmurf wrote: »
But that would just make grinding alone or in a group of 2 even better for XP (and it already is the best way to gain XP by far). The dungeons would still be easy enough to solo on a good build (they were easy enough to solo before the nerf).NewBlacksmurf wrote: »I think they just could increase difficulty like at PC launch and it be fine.
Increased difficulty and therefore increased exp per kill.
...at launch, they were harder but I'm saying not solo-able for any build and on top of that, increase the exp along with that difficulty.
I made an edit as well to phase out groups from non-groups as that logic makes sense for grinders vs those who want to remain solo but play through with others. Not sure how else it would phase so maybe 4 or more is phased out.
Edit: Except for the phasing which I didn't get Edited by GaldorP on April 17, 2016 3:04PM0 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't care.
Ok, so that would more or less turn the existing Public Dungeons into what I suggested as new Public Group Dungeons I guess?NewBlacksmurf wrote: »
But that would just make grinding alone or in a group of 2 even better for XP (and it already is the best way to gain XP by far). The dungeons would still be easy enough to solo on a good build (they were easy enough to solo before the nerf).NewBlacksmurf wrote: »I think they just could increase difficulty like at PC launch and it be fine.
Increased difficulty and therefore increased exp per kill.
...at launch, they were harder but I'm saying not solo-able for any build and on top of that, increase the exp along with that difficulty.
I made an edit as well to phase out groups from non-groups as that logic makes sense for grinders vs those who want to remain solo but play through with others. Not sure how else it would phase so maybe 4 or more is phased out.
Edit: Except for the phasing which I didn't get
No because this shouldn't be something we queue for.
I think the current setup is great with the two exceptions.
-they should not be solo-able as a whole. Parts, yes, but not the whole thing
-cause ppl grind them as they are the best source of exp....4 or more should phase.
Mix and match.....maybe 4 or more phased is harder while non-phased is the same as today...
-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
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GaldorP✭✭✭✭✭
What I'm suggesting is a zone like current Public Dungeons with harder monsters. People just enter and hunt there, no queueing involved. You can encounter other players in there that are not in your group because it's a Public dungeon. No maximum to group size, but XP are split. Monsters hit very hard and have a lot of Health.NewBlacksmurf wrote: »
Ok, so that would more or less turn the existing Public Dungeons into what I suggested as new Public Group Dungeons I guess?NewBlacksmurf wrote: »
But that would just make grinding alone or in a group of 2 even better for XP (and it already is the best way to gain XP by far). The dungeons would still be easy enough to solo on a good build (they were easy enough to solo before the nerf).NewBlacksmurf wrote: »I think they just could increase difficulty like at PC launch and it be fine.
Increased difficulty and therefore increased exp per kill.
...at launch, they were harder but I'm saying not solo-able for any build and on top of that, increase the exp along with that difficulty.
I made an edit as well to phase out groups from non-groups as that logic makes sense for grinders vs those who want to remain solo but play through with others. Not sure how else it would phase so maybe 4 or more is phased out.
Edit: Except for the phasing which I didn't get
No because this shouldn't be something we queue for.
I think the current setup is great with the two exceptions.
-they should not be solo-able as a whole. Parts, yes, but not the whole thing
-cause ppl grind them as they are the best source of exp....4 or more should phase.
Mix and match.....maybe 4 or more phased is harder while non-phased is the same as today...0 -
GaldorP✭✭✭✭✭
It should not be as hard as trials, just hard enough that it's more efficient to hunt in a group of 4 players or more (larger groups split the XP among more players but kill have faster). In groups of just 2 players it would take too long to kill the enemies and you would take too much damage for it to be efficient in most setups.failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »What you describe sounds like 12 mans trials.
Edit: Also, what I'm suggesting is not instanced to your group. It would be like a Public Dungeon is now where you can encounter other players that are not in your group.Edited by GaldorP on April 17, 2016 3:15PM0 -
failkiwib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't care.
It should not be as hard as trials, just hard enough that it's more efficient to hunt in a group of 4 players or more (larger groups split the XP among more players but kill have faster). In groups of just 2 players it would take too long to kill the enemies and you would take too much damage for it to be efficient in most setups.failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »What you describe sounds like 12 mans trials.
Edit: Also, what I'm suggesting is not instanced to your group. It would be like a Public Dungeon is now where you can encounter other players that are not in your group.
Well that sounds like Imperial City sewers.... with pvp excluded.0 -
GaldorP✭✭✭✭✭
Hm, you're right that's actually pretty close to it, yes!!failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »
It should not be as hard as trials, just hard enough that it's more efficient to hunt in a group of 4 players or more (larger groups split the XP among more players but kill have faster). In groups of just 2 players it would take too long to kill the enemies and you would take too much damage for it to be efficient in most setups.failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »What you describe sounds like 12 mans trials.
Edit: Also, what I'm suggesting is not instanced to your group. It would be like a Public Dungeon is now where you can encounter other players that are not in your group.
Well that sounds like Imperial City sewers.... with pvp excluded.
Edit: Though Imperial City Sewers is still too easy, of course. Sewers that get gradually more difficult towards the center so only groups can hunt there, without PvP, that's pretty much what I would love to see added to the game Edited by GaldorP on April 17, 2016 3:27PM0 -
Docmandu✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes.I'd love to see some non-instanced large scale PvE dungeons / raids.. While I'm mostly a PvP player, I did like the PvE raids like that in DAoC (ie. the Epic Realm dungeons like Caer Sidi.. or Dragon raids .. or even Trials of Atlantis (ToA) / Master Level encounters.. as long as it doesn't drop must-have gear or requires you to repeat it 1000x -- which was what made ToA not so great)
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NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't care.
What I'm suggesting is a zone like current Public Dungeons with harder monsters. People just enter and hunt there, no queueing involved. You can encounter other players in there that are not in your group because it's a Public dungeon. No maximum to group size, but XP are split. Monsters hit very hard and have a lot of Health.NewBlacksmurf wrote: »
Ok, so that would more or less turn the existing Public Dungeons into what I suggested as new Public Group Dungeons I guess?NewBlacksmurf wrote: »
But that would just make grinding alone or in a group of 2 even better for XP (and it already is the best way to gain XP by far). The dungeons would still be easy enough to solo on a good build (they were easy enough to solo before the nerf).NewBlacksmurf wrote: »I think they just could increase difficulty like at PC launch and it be fine.
Increased difficulty and therefore increased exp per kill.
...at launch, they were harder but I'm saying not solo-able for any build and on top of that, increase the exp along with that difficulty.
I made an edit as well to phase out groups from non-groups as that logic makes sense for grinders vs those who want to remain solo but play through with others. Not sure how else it would phase so maybe 4 or more is phased out.
Edit: Except for the phasing which I didn't get
No because this shouldn't be something we queue for.
I think the current setup is great with the two exceptions.
-they should not be solo-able as a whole. Parts, yes, but not the whole thing
-cause ppl grind them as they are the best source of exp....4 or more should phase.
Mix and match.....maybe 4 or more phased is harder while non-phased is the same as today...
Yep but right now ppl grind there so regardless of difficulty...ppl will grind.
I want them to be harder so YES
But only if 4 or more are phased in ther own public dungeon as not to over crowd and it allows us to share the space better regardless of intent.-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
failkiwib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't care.
I wouldn't mind it
Hm, you're right that's actually pretty close to it, yes!!failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »
It should not be as hard as trials, just hard enough that it's more efficient to hunt in a group of 4 players or more (larger groups split the XP among more players but kill have faster). In groups of just 2 players it would take too long to kill the enemies and you would take too much damage for it to be efficient in most setups.failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »What you describe sounds like 12 mans trials.
Edit: Also, what I'm suggesting is not instanced to your group. It would be like a Public Dungeon is now where you can encounter other players that are not in your group.
Well that sounds like Imperial City sewers.... with pvp excluded.
Edit: Though Imperial City Sewers is still too easy, of course. Sewers that get gradually more difficult towards the center so only groups can hunt there, without PvP, that's pretty much what I would love to see added to the game
The pvp in IC annoys me, as it is the best grindspot for xp and economy. And the majority of pvp'ers even dislike it, due to too many pve mobs and no sieging/warfare at all
At least materials are easy to come by now, with the release of TG. 0 -
7788b14_ESO✭✭✭No.I for one like dungeons the way they are. When the game was first put together there was a lot of hard content that you really had to know what you were doing to succeed. People complained and now most content is pretty casual. I don't think they will add harder content other then the trials because people will just complain again.1 -
Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I don't care.Basically you want public dungeons buffed so they actually become what they were originally supposed to be - PUBLIC open instances supposed to be done by groups and not optimal for soloing.
But we can't have stuff buffed because then someone wearing 7/7 set-less heavy armor and using a destro staff with 9k health at v16 might not be able to complete it without having to ask other people for help or even, gods forbid, reslotting some skills or even reconsidering his build
Tbh I think I prefer instanced dungeons to avoid running into randoms but rather stay with friends; however, even most group instances can be soloed by now so welp. IF we actually could have any challenging small-group content at all that'd be great, in any form really(since right now like only challenging 4 man content is Sanctum). In an open instance though we'll 99.999% have either 24 people zergs(see Wrothgar WB) facerolling it for loot and xp or have it nerfed a week after launch(see dungeons).0 -
GaldorP✭✭✭✭✭
My idea was that XP would get split among group members so that groups with 24 members wouldn't be efficient anymore, but 4-9 players would be the ideal group size.Basically you want public dungeons buffed so they actually become what they were originally supposed to be - PUBLIC open instances supposed to be done by groups and not optimal for soloing.
But we can't have stuff buffed because then someone wearing 7/7 set-less heavy armor and using a destro staff with 9k health at v16 might not be able to complete it without having to ask other people for help or even, gods forbid, reslotting some skills or even reconsidering his build
Tbh I think I prefer instanced dungeons to avoid running into randoms but rather stay with friends; however, even most group instances can be soloed by now so welp. IF we actually could have any challenging small-group content at all that'd be great, in any form really(since right now like only challenging 4 man content is Sanctum). In an open instance though we'll 99.999% have either 24 people zergs(see Wrothgar WB) facerolling it for loot and xp or have it nerfed a week after launch(see dungeons).0 -
Pirsius✭✭✭No.I guess you were not around during the beta and PC release, where you would see 20-30 people camping delve bosses for their exp and loot.
This is essentially what a non-instanced, high-yield zone would result in. It wouldn't just be you and your buddies, it would be much much more. If ZOS implemented such a zone, then EVERYBODY would be there. Not to mention, such an influx of gold, gear, and experience would kill the game's economy and leveling system.
I'm fine with just having harder content. Having harder versions of public dungeons would answer the difficulty and non-instanced criteria, but the only downside would be the hundreds of V16's looking for their next CP/gold grind spots. Not sure how a mass grind spot would be beneficial to the game.
My question, is that you want something open-world and a difficulty were a 4-person group is needed, what is preventing, 10 different groups, each with 4 people, or maybe even 40 solo players, from massing these bosses for their amazing loot and exp drops? All of a sudden your '4-person group difficulty' is now too easy for the 40 people who are there.0 -
GaldorP✭✭✭✭✭
If you don't have a group of 4 or more players it wouldn't be efficient. A solo player or a group of 2 would get more XP and loot hunting in a Public dungeon instead in the same time. I don't ask for better XP and loot than you can get in the existing Public Dungeons in Wrothgar or in the Imperial City Sewers. A group of 24 wouldn't be efficient as XP would get split among all players and loot reduced based on the number of players that got an XP share from the monster.I guess you were not around during the beta and PC release, where you would see 20-30 people camping delve bosses for their exp and loot.
This is essentially what a non-instanced, high-yield zone would result in. It wouldn't just be you and your buddies, it would be much much more. If ZOS implemented such a zone, then EVERYBODY would be there. Not to mention, such an influx of gold, gear, and experience would kill the game's economy and leveling system.
I'm fine with just having harder content. Having harder versions of public dungeons would answer the difficulty and non-instanced criteria, but the only downside would be the hundreds of V16's looking for their next CP/gold grind spots. Not sure how a mass grind spot would be beneficial to the game.
My question, is that you want something open-world and a difficulty were a 4-person group is needed, what is preventing, 10 different groups, each with 4 people, or maybe even 40 solo players, from massing these bosses for their amazing loot and exp drops? All of a sudden your '4-person group difficulty' is now too easy for the 40 people who are there.
Edit: Also the main spawn points could be in large rooms with some space between them so you couldn't pull monsters from more than one spot for huge AoE pulls (also, the damage of those monsters would simply be too high and they'd have too much Health to be instantly killed). Killstealing could become a problem, but it would be easy to implement mechanics that prevent it (for example, only members of the group that made the biggest contribution in killing a monster get an XP and loot reward).Edited by GaldorP on April 17, 2016 6:08PM0 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No.It sounds horribly like a contested farming area, when what is actually needed is additional content.0 -
Pirsius✭✭✭No.I see a lot of leeching coming out of this idea of divided loot. Tag the monster, get as much loot as those actually fighting. Now you and your buddies are upset that someone else has now taken an equal piece of the loot. Not sure how you would implement something to counteract that. A DPS threshold would not suit the tank/healer. Also if the number of players fighting grows it will be harder to scale that threshold.
I am all for Veteran Public Dungeons, but I see a lot of tempers flaring with this model, especially when you may have 2-3 groups contesting over the same grind spots.
I understand where your idea is coming from, and I like the idea of harder content, but too many downsides will result in nerfing the difficulty/exp rate/loot/etc. Just look at every other piece of non-instanced content pushed out, especially group-based.
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GaldorP✭✭✭✭✭
I just added a comment to the original post how I would prevent thisI see a lot of leeching coming out of this idea of divided loot. Tag the monster, get as much loot as those actually fighting. Now you and your buddies are upset that someone else has now taken an equal piece of the loot. Not sure how you would implement something to counteract that. A DPS threshold would not suit the tank/healer. Also if the number of players fighting grows it will be harder to scale that threshold.
I am all for Veteran Public Dungeons, but I see a lot of tempers flaring with this model, especially when you may have 2-3 groups contesting over the same grind spots.
I understand where your idea is coming from, and I like the idea of harder content, but too many downsides will result in nerfing the difficulty/exp rate/loot/etc. Just look at every other piece of non-instanced content pushed out, especially group-based. (Only members of the group that made the biggest contribution get any reward.) 0