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Paths of Destiny - Zone Framework Concept.

Rune_Relic
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@GaldorP started a thread about open combat areas for grouping.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/260366/would-you-like-to-see-public-dungeons-for-groups-added-to-the-game#latest
Hence this thread.

I was originally going to keep this concept as a leaving present for everyone here and ZOS.
I have been sitting on it for quite some time, waiting to see how things panned out.
But as it seems to be a topic of interest anyway, why not.
I call the concept, 'Paths of Destiny'.

We know there is an onging fight between group players and solo players on a never ending power struggle.
The same applies between small group and large group play, especially in PvP.
There is also the hardcore players that want to take on impossible odds, even if its unviable.
Last but not least, we have adventurer vs grinder wars who are always stamping on each others toes and getting in each others faces.
So how do you keep everyone happy and catered for ?
Can we create a framework that gives everyone a home ?


'Current Zone Concept'

Currently there is a single solo player path that works his way through a zone while completing the main quest.
Often leading to side quests within significant areas.
On this journey we wil come across delves and soloable world bosses.
That content may or may not be getting harder while levelling from one end to the other.
This is a dream for the ES playerbase that feels at home in this very environment.

Then we have the dynamic grouping content, where peole can hook up on the fly.
This cant be on the main path as it would be too hard to solo and traverse for some.
So off the path we have public dungeons, dolmens and group world bosses (thanks ZOS) a la craglorn style.
This is a harmonic and natural way for players to group up and learn how to play as a team.
It is a fundamental stepping stone to group play for those single player ES vets who are alien to MMOs.
Arguable in fact, it is all thats actually needed for group play and role play.

Then we have the static group instance content for small groups in the guise of Group Dungeons.
Plus the static group instance for large groups in the form of Trials.
These two are also tucked away, well off the beaten path, as well as being instanced.
The fact they are instanced is a boon, as sometimes too many players can overpower dynamic group content.
It lets ZOS finely tune the combat against a finite group size for the ultimate experience of parity as group vies with NPCs and environment.
Alas even here, some players find the optimised combat too hard, or too easy and required normal or vet versions.
So this kind of proves.. even instances can never be tuned to suit all tastes.

'Paths of Destiny zone concept'

https://ln.sync.com/dl/212950e00#7zqpg8kq-xabas325-9bve2abk-8eifg8b6
This link is for a pdf document you can open or save.
Its a Diagram to convey the basic concept of the zones framework or components.

Rules.
1. There should be 3 interwoven paths of destiny to suit the 3 playstyles currently endorsed by ZOS (Solo, 4-man and 12-man)
2. The shortest path to get from A-B (through the front door) should be met with the hardest challenges.
3. Weaving in and out of the direct path to avoid the worst dangers (taking the long way round) should be the solo and 4 man content.
4. The solo and 4 man content paths of destiny should also cross at nodes.
5. Going off the edge of the map should result in extreme hostility...because...'here be monsters' (ie grinders can do there thing away from everyone else).
6. Where paths cross should be where content difficulty increases and more people are likely to meet up in game (ie solo + 4-man help each other out or 4-man + 12-man).
7. Those crossing nodes should have varying level above (dynamic PvE) and below ground (instance PvE) so Arena/battlegorund style PvP can also take place and allow 1v1 4v4 12v12 instances.

Basically the idea is to keep the same groups together and give them a place to exist.
At the same time there is some cross over of the playstyles so that we can experience and dip our toes in the water before committing.
PvP isnt rife within the zone like an opt in or open world system, but eg 4 man groups will be in the right place to choose if they want to enter 4v4 or 4vPvE instances.

Much like dynamic group content upgrades solo players to group play,
The 1-man/4man 4-man/12-man nodes should also be areas for groups to progress and evolve further with harder content and as larger teams.
As such they should be 4-man dymanic and 12-man dynamic content that act as a feeder/taster for the hardest of all content.
Not hard in the sense of being OP, but requiring 0 mistakes and unique abilities, while working as a unit in harmony.
This ensures 12 DPS will get you killed and not a new speed record.
This should make tanks, healers, DPS and indeed hybrids a requirement to complete the toughest 12 man content.
Rewards should scale with difficulty but ....no sets should be gated....only the quality of the sets should vary.

Anyway. This was just my way of saying thanks for the past 2 years or more.
I wish you much success in the future and hope the game truly reaches the epitome among the annals of game history.
Anything that can be exploited will be exploited
  • tinythinker
    tinythinker
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    Interesting, but I am a little slow sometimes on such phrasing so if you would be every kind, are you talking strictly about closed-off instanced content ("let's go into this cave") or also open-world? And for open-world are nodes just quest-hubs or sub-zones/areas of the main map? (I am assuming it's sub-zones/areas.)

    That is, if I want the safer/easier path to get from point A to point B on the map, then in terms of roaming mobs, spontaneous events, delves, etc, I take the long and winding road. If I want harder challenges I physically take the most direct route, and the roaming mobs will be so tough, with high health, high damage, faster mechanics (no "telegraph, waiting, yawn, guess I will move out of the way" but rather "shiiiiiit!"). And a third path that is not quite so direct but neither quite so circuitous that is in the middle. And if you go totally off-road then it could be anything, including stuff that is fluff but also some true terrors?

    I got the impression from your map that you meant all open world stuff, too, not just quest-hubs. It seems the most obvious interpretation, or maybe it's that I had a remotely similar idea for a super-hard DLC zone where you could do the main quest along a narrow corridor on the map but everything else (including side-quests that help to tell the rest of the story) are things that couldn't be soloed even by the best players, like being in a trial in the open world. I hope I am not projecting my idea onto yours. And yours is very well-developed and thought out, whereas mine remains vague and undeveloped.

    Assuming I have it right, I think your idea is very, very good, and if there was some way to upvote it I would. I am not sure how thrilled ZOS will be, and as there would probably be extra xp or better drops for harder paths, many people would doubtless consider that unfair and start calling for nerfs to those paths so that they could get the same gear. But that's how it is with any idea or new content, so it's not a reason to abandon an idea.

    Good work! :):+1:
    Edited by tinythinker on April 17, 2016 2:55PM
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  • tinythinker
    tinythinker
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    Would love to see this retrofitted into some old zones. I mean, even if ZOS loved the idea we alreay have Wrothgar and Abah's Landing out, and doubtless at least a couple of others well into development (Kvatch is probably nearly done, then whatever comes after), so getting this new design element in for a zone still in early stages would probably mean second quarter of next year if this idea caught fire right away. So I am including Q3 and Q4 of 2016 and Q1 of 2017 in this situation as "old zones", along with Wrothgar. Abah's is too small perhaps for such pathing.
    Experienced, new, returner? Help keep ESO's community strong ᕙ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ᕗ -- share what you love about the game, offer constructive feedback, and make friends.ʕ·ᴥ·ʔ

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    Who are you in Tamriel (whether it's just your character's attitude & style or a full backstory)? - Share your Character's Story! ◔ ⌣ ◔
    (And let us know 🔷What Kind of Roleplayer You Are🔷 - even if that only extends to choosing your race)


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  • Rune_Relic
    Rune_Relic
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    @tinythinker yes and no....just to confuse you :tongue:
    You got most of it pretty much spot on...just need to clear up some minor details.

    Open world public + Public instance + Closed private instance + Questing Nodes/towns.
    Any of these or multiples of these could exist at the appropriate node (path intersection).

    The road would be overland (although tunnels and bridges are not a problem).
    I suppose its best to say the 3 roads are Openworld instead or public.
    BUT..public & private instance entrances can also exist at the nodes
    There is no reason you cant enter a private/public instance at one node and pop out at another node on the same path.
    I envision the trials doing so along the red path.
    But essentially the solo route is the main quest tree (public) + sidequest (private solo delve).
    The 4 man route is an optional seconday quest tree (public) + sidequest (private 4-man dungeon).
    The 12 man route is an optional tertiary quest tree (public) + sidequest (private 12-man trial).

    The best thing to do is look at the grey lines and red areas.
    Imagine the green path as a valley between three red hills (in this zone map anyway).
    The low green valleys are reasonable for adventuring solo.
    The blue paths cross the grey lines that denote increased difficult on the hill sides.
    The higher up the hill side, the greater the nightmare and the less chance of avoiding trouble.

    A node is where 1-man, 4-man or 12-man paths cross (small circles).
    This is where 1-man should taste 4/12-man 'public content' or
    4-man should taste 12-man 'public content'.
    They are public training grounds for the private instances.
    But also entry points for private instances if need be.
    The beauty is you can go there as a horde like wrothgar world bosses too.
    The idea is to gently enourage grouping and teamwork out of self interest..but not enforce it.
    This allows for on the fly world incursions of epic proportions where people would be prepared for it or could avoid it.
    Coordination would prevail. Random zerging would wipe. Grouped or not.
    Hopefully that would pay off in cyrodiil.

    Consider Public areas/instances as training for the harder private instances:
    Level 1 - solo/duo public area/instance (public delves/minor incursion/minor world boss) - PvE Primary quest
    Level 2 - solo/duo private instance - PvE Side quest
    Level 3 - 1v1 arena-battle private instance - PvP
    Level 4 - 4-man public area/instance (public dungeon/incursion/world boss) - PvE Secondary quest
    Level 5 - 4-man private instance (group dungeon) - PvE Side quest
    Level 6 - 4v4 arena-battle private instance - PvP
    Level 7 - 12-man public area/instance (public fortress/major incursion/major world boss(es)) - PvE Tertiary quest
    Level 8 - 12-man private instance (trial) - PvE Side quest
    Level 9 - 12v12 arena-battle private instance - PvP

    I should probably structure that better but I hope I got the idea across a little better anyway.
    Edited by Rune_Relic on April 17, 2016 10:18PM
    Anything that can be exploited will be exploited
  • tinythinker
    tinythinker
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    Thanks for extra clarification. I tried to break it down in shorter, simpler terms in case others are just skimming. Don't want them to think it isn't worth the effort to really read your idea. Glad I wasn't *too* off.
    Experienced, new, returner? Help keep ESO's community strong ᕙ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ᕗ -- share what you love about the game, offer constructive feedback, and make friends.ʕ·ᴥ·ʔ

    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

    Who are you in Tamriel (whether it's just your character's attitude & style or a full backstory)? - Share your Character's Story! ◔ ⌣ ◔
    (And let us know 🔷What Kind of Roleplayer You Are🔷 - even if that only extends to choosing your race)


    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

    Support Mudcrab Mode for ESO (\/)!_!(\/) - part joke, part serious, all glorious! You butter be ready for this
  • Rune_Relic
    Rune_Relic
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    Thanks for extra clarification. I tried to break it down in shorter, simpler terms in case others are just skimming. Don't want them to think it isn't worth the effort to really read your idea. Glad I wasn't *too* off.

    Thanks for the feedback.
    Point noted about reward envy though.

    Do you think its better to just have XP + Gold scale to the challenge rather than power creep with gear/weapons ?
    eg soloing 12 man content earns 12x gold XP...but 12manning 12-man content only earns 1x gold XP.
    Especially from a horizontal point of view where gold can buy gear anyway and XP unlocks skills.
    I can understand the effort vs reward side....but I also see the power gap side.
    Many complain of RNG and suggest tokens.....why not just buy with ingame gold scaled through tougher challenges ?
    Edited by Rune_Relic on April 18, 2016 2:29PM
    Anything that can be exploited will be exploited
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