ZOS fix the shuffle stacking

AOECAPS · April 2016

It's broken AF stacking shuffle and not being hit by abilities non stop is silly tested it out broken. Fix it lol who we kidding it won't be fixed

OdinForge · April 2016

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Update: We took a look, and didn't see any instance of Shuffle stacking with itself. What we did notice was that when you cast Shuffle, two buffs are added to your character screen – Major Evasion (20s of 20% increased dodge chance) and Shuffle (.5s per medium armor piece, up to 3.5s). The Major Evasion buff grants the dodge bonus (which is what you may be thinking is stacking) while the Shuffle buff listed only increases the snare immunity duration for at most 3.5 seconds. The icons for each are the same; your character screen (or even a bufftracker add-on) will show multiple of the same icon in the event that Shuffle be recast before it runs out.

Also keep in mind that Shuffle gives you a 20% chance to dodge - this is more RNG than anything else, so it is in the realm of possibility that someone could dodge multiple times in a row.

Please let us know if you're seeing differently; if you have information, we'd appreciate a PM rather than posting it publicly. Thanks in advance, and hope this helps clear things up!

Durham · April 2016

They hardly respond to these forums, just leave feedback .... There are so many things broken atm not just shuffle..

AOECAPS · April 2016

Yea I agree and whoever a idea to bring velicious death into this game needs to be slapped it's the dumbest thing I've ever seen.

AOECAPS · April 2016

@OdinForge I didn't see your post at first there is a way to stack it Ginas post most have had information given from QA and we all know how well of a job they do

OdinForge · April 2016

I don't personally think there is a bug, I never did. But too many people are just tossing out accusations and not giving enough proof, if you think the bug is real make a detailed video (make it unlisted so only those with a link can see it) and PM me the way to locate it on YouTube.

Egonieser · April 2016

OdinForge wrote: »

I don't personally think there is a bug, I never did. But too many people are just tossing out accusations and not giving enough proof, if you think the bug is real make a detailed video and PM me the way to locate it on YouTube.

Have you never encountered a person, who dodges your attacks 100% without even doing a single rolldodge? I have, many times in fact. It's not common, but there's definitely something off about it.
Only way to kill them is use undodgable attacks like channeled skills, curse, streak, agony etc.
It may be an accusation, but I've encountered it several times by same individuals every time to know something is a bit iffy there, 20% chance is not permanent 100% chance.

AddictionX · April 2016

So who is allowing them is allowing them to get away with it?

Blobsky · April 2016

This is a genuine bug whether they like it or not - After a few hours testing with some experienced PvPers, we found a max dodge chance of ~50% by recasting again whilst the previous shuffle was still up. Further casts didn't do anything.

Teridaxus · April 2016

Don't expect any fix until dark brotherhood...

notimetocare · April 2016

Blobsky wrote: »

This is a genuine bug whether they like it or not - After a few hours testing with some experienced PvPers, we found a max dodge chance of ~50% by recasting again whilst the previous shuffle was still up. Further casts didn't do anything.

Be interested to see the data from your tests. Would go a long way to countering the word of people with the actual code to test.

AddictionX · April 2016

a 50 percent dodge chance? But Other people say 80 percent...

OdinForge · April 2016

Egonieser wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

I don't personally think there is a bug, I never did. But too many people are just tossing out accusations and not giving enough proof, if you think the bug is real make a detailed video and PM me the way to locate it on YouTube.

Have you never encountered a person, who dodges your attacks 100% without even doing a single rolldodge? I have, many times in fact. It's not common, but there's definitely something off about it.
Only way to kill them is use undodgable attacks like channeled skills, curse, streak, agony etc.
It may be an accusation, but I've encountered it several times by same individuals every time to know something is a bit iffy there, 20% chance is not permanent 100% chance.

No I haven't.

I've fought (win or lose) all of the best (or hardest to kill) NA PC stam players, with both my stam and magicka NB. For my magblade I sometimes run blur, more for the speed and less for the RNG dodge. My stamblade is 1H/2H virtually all the time, and I almost always run without any evasion buff, sometimes mirage and on the rare occasion shuffle if I have a bow.

If someone has been abusing higher than stated dodge chance, I of all people would have noticed it and said something.

I'm not saying that there isn't a chance the bug exists*, I'm just asking people to make a detailed video proving it instead of just claiming it.

AddictionX · April 2016

Thats the thing Im sure i would have noticed something too i use shuffle mostly for the anti snare on my stamina dk... not for its dodge chance honestly... I must have horrible RNG

I suspect mostly the ones noticing this is are magicka type...

Ruben · April 2016

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2883323#Comment_2883323

We took a look, and didn't see any instance of Shuffle stacking with itself. What we did notice was that when you cast Shuffle, two buffs are added to your character screen – Major Evasion (20s of 20% increased dodge chance) and Shuffle (.5s per medium armor piece, up to 3.5s). The Major Evasion buff grants the dodge bonus (which is what you may be thinking is stacking) while the Shuffle buff listed only increases the snare immunity duration for at most 3.5 seconds. The icons for each are the same; your character screen (or even a bufftracker add-on) will show multiple of the same icon in the event that Shuffle be recast before it runs out.

I will add something: If you dodge an attack, you will dodge everything for half a second or so; it doesn't matter how many attacks you're receiving, you will dodge all of them until your dodge animation is done.

AddictionX · April 2016

Ruben wrote: »

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2883323#Comment_2883323

We took a look, and didn't see any instance of Shuffle stacking with itself. What we did notice was that when you cast Shuffle, two buffs are added to your character screen – Major Evasion (20s of 20% increased dodge chance) and Shuffle (.5s per medium armor piece, up to 3.5s). The Major Evasion buff grants the dodge bonus (which is what you may be thinking is stacking) while the Shuffle buff listed only increases the snare immunity duration for at most 3.5 seconds. The icons for each are the same; your character screen (or even a bufftracker add-on) will show multiple of the same icon in the event that Shuffle be recast before it runs out.

I will add something: If you dodge an attack, you will dodge everything for half a second or so; it doesn't matter how many attacks you're receiving, you will dodge all of them until your dodge animation is done.

I second this... there is also a set that allows you to have extra immune time.

Chori · April 2016

OdinForge wrote: »

I don't personally think there is a bug, I never did. But too many people are just tossing out accusations and not giving enough proof, if you think the bug is real make a detailed video (make it unlisted so only those with a link can see it) and PM me the way to locate it on YouTube.

Then why dont you make a video proving its not bugged? lol. Go out and play with it, as a stamina nightblade the dodge chance its outrageous and most of the time I'm asking myself how the hell I got alive out of some situations. There is definitely something wrong with shuffle if you can dodge more than 80% of the attacks and not just "a RNG of 20% for each attack".

OdinForge · April 2016

Chori wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

I don't personally think there is a bug, I never did. But too many people are just tossing out accusations and not giving enough proof, if you think the bug is real make a detailed video (make it unlisted so only those with a link can see it) and PM me the way to locate it on YouTube.

Then why dont you make a video proving its not bugged? lol. Go out and play with it, as a stamina nightblade the dodge chance its outrageous and most of the time I'm asking myself how the hell I got alive out of some situations. There is definitely something wrong with shuffle if you can dodge more than 80% of the attacks and not just "a RNG of 20% for each attack".

I'm not the one jumping into the forums, making outrageous accusations about an 80% dodge bug that activates with a macro with no proof to backup my claims.

I've beaten the best stamina players that use shuffle, if someone was running around with 50-80% dodge chance it'd be easily obvious in a 1v1. There is no video, because the bug doesn't exist. I'd love to see someone with 80% dodge chance in PvP.

D0ntevenL1ft · April 2016

Too bad maelstrom RNG isn't as generous as shuffle RNG.

danno8 · April 2016

Chori wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

I don't personally think there is a bug, I never did. But too many people are just tossing out accusations and not giving enough proof, if you think the bug is real make a detailed video (make it unlisted so only those with a link can see it) and PM me the way to locate it on YouTube.

Then why dont you make a video proving its not bugged? lol. Go out and play with it, as a stamina nightblade the dodge chance its outrageous and most of the time I'm asking myself how the hell I got alive out of some situations. There is definitely something wrong with shuffle if you can dodge more than 80% of the attacks and not just "a RNG of 20% for each attack".

While I think there may be something up with the skill, you can't ask someone to prove a negative. Even if he showed a video showing exactly 20% chance, there would still be the chance that someone knows how to make it bug out. So you just can't "prove that it is not bugged".

It's up to people to show video evidence that it IS bugged.

rfennell_ESO · April 2016

OdinForge wrote: »

Edited by OdinForge

RETIRED from ESO until PvP is fixed

I guess the question is when's the last time you played ESO?

Because it's laughable to show up and just claim there isn't an exploit when the exploit and how to do it has been broadcast here and then deleted by mods saying it's been reported to the proper authorities to deal with, particularly if you haven't played in 4 months.

Vaoh · April 2016

OdinForge wrote: »

Chori wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

I don't personally think there is a bug, I never did. But too many people are just tossing out accusations and not giving enough proof, if you think the bug is real make a detailed video (make it unlisted so only those with a link can see it) and PM me the way to locate it on YouTube.

Then why dont you make a video proving its not bugged? lol. Go out and play with it, as a stamina nightblade the dodge chance its outrageous and most of the time I'm asking myself how the hell I got alive out of some situations. There is definitely something wrong with shuffle if you can dodge more than 80% of the attacks and not just "a RNG of 20% for each attack".

I'm not the one jumping into the forums, making outrageous accusations about an 80% dodge bug that activates with a macro with no proof to backup my claims.

I've beaten the best stamina players that use shuffle, if someone was running around with 50-80% dodge chance it'd be easily obvious in a 1v1. There is no video, because the bug doesn't exist. I'd love to see someone with 80% dodge chance in PvP.

rfennell_ESO · April 2016

Doncellius wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Chori wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

I don't personally think there is a bug, I never did. But too many people are just tossing out accusations and not giving enough proof, if you think the bug is real make a detailed video (make it unlisted so only those with a link can see it) and PM me the way to locate it on YouTube.

Then why dont you make a video proving its not bugged? lol. Go out and play with it, as a stamina nightblade the dodge chance its outrageous and most of the time I'm asking myself how the hell I got alive out of some situations. There is definitely something wrong with shuffle if you can dodge more than 80% of the attacks and not just "a RNG of 20% for each attack".

I'm not the one jumping into the forums, making outrageous accusations about an 80% dodge bug that activates with a macro with no proof to backup my claims.

I've beaten the best stamina players that use shuffle, if someone was running around with 50-80% dodge chance it'd be easily obvious in a 1v1. There is no video, because the bug doesn't exist. I'd love to see someone with 80% dodge chance in PvP.

Hehe I'm not "one of the best stamina players" and this guy was easy to kill in game.

That's what's so amusing.

Even with him attempting to constantly use unbreakable cc's on everyone and anyone.

Refuse2GrowUp · April 2016

OdinForge wrote: »

I don't personally think there is a bug, I never did. But too many people are just tossing out accusations and not giving enough proof, if you think the bug is real make a detailed video (make it unlisted so only those with a link can see it) and PM me the way to locate it on YouTube.

I don't think it is an issue with it stacking on itself. I think it is simply giving more than a 20% dodge chance.

A buddy and I tested it just using light bow attacks (he stood stationary with Shuffle on, I fired bow light attacks at him from a few meters away; no other buffs active). 13 dodges in a row. Now, RNG is what it is, and those may be unusual results, but coupled with what I experience daily in PvP, I would certainly say something is amiss with Shuffle.

Wollust · April 2016

I have not tried that bug out.
I have not tested shuffle.

I use shuffle on every stamina character because it's so useful.
But I've heard enough from seasoned PvPers that shuffle can be exploited to provide more than 20% dodge chance. I know how to do it (allegedly), but I've got not much motivation to pvp at the moment, which is why I''m not planning to try it out for now.
But if I see people, who have been part of the hardcore player community for a while, complaining, I do tend to believe them.

Vaoh · April 2016

Wollust wrote: »

I have not tried that bug out.
I have not tested shuffle.

I use shuffle on every stamina character because it's so useful.
But I've heard enough from seasoned PvPers that shuffle can be exploited to provide more than 20% dodge chance. I know how to do it (allegedly), but I've got not much motivation to pvp at the moment, which is why I''m not planning to try it out for now.
But if I see people, who have been part of the hardcore player community for a while, complaining, I do tend to believe them.

Most players simply don't take the hint. They're either using it or in disbelief that it is real. Unfortunately, it is very much a real bug. We are lucky that those who have "tested" it did not test it correctly. It needs to remain under the radar.

I would appreciate if you send what info you know about the exploit to Gina so they can get it fixed. They contacted me and I gave them all of the info I had regarding it, but the more the better

itscompton · April 2016

This bug is real. Factoring in my marathon 7-8 hour sessions on off days I typically PvP an average of 3 hours a day each week and the change was very noticeable after TG. There are now just certain people that seem to dodge 100% of attacks that can be dodged. When I noticed it happening I sat back during fights and spammed Destro staff attacks and have seen 5-6 attacks in a row dodged by the same target even though they hadn't dodge rolled once.

OdinForge · April 2016

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Doncellius wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Chori wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

I don't personally think there is a bug, I never did. But too many people are just tossing out accusations and not giving enough proof, if you think the bug is real make a detailed video (make it unlisted so only those with a link can see it) and PM me the way to locate it on YouTube.

Then why dont you make a video proving its not bugged? lol. Go out and play with it, as a stamina nightblade the dodge chance its outrageous and most of the time I'm asking myself how the hell I got alive out of some situations. There is definitely something wrong with shuffle if you can dodge more than 80% of the attacks and not just "a RNG of 20% for each attack".

I'm not the one jumping into the forums, making outrageous accusations about an 80% dodge bug that activates with a macro with no proof to backup my claims.

I've beaten the best stamina players that use shuffle, if someone was running around with 50-80% dodge chance it'd be easily obvious in a 1v1. There is no video, because the bug doesn't exist. I'd love to see someone with 80% dodge chance in PvP.

Hehe I'm not "one of the best stamina players" and this guy was easy to kill in game.

That's what's so amusing.

Even with him attempting to constantly use unbreakable cc's on everyone and anyone.

Do your faceless *** talking in-game, what's your character name I'd love to 1v1 you so that you can show me your game-breaking macros and shuffle bugs. Just like everyone throwing around accusations of bugs without proof.

Please show me these 80% shuffle runners.

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

I don't personally think there is a bug, I never did. But too many people are just tossing out accusations and not giving enough proof, if you think the bug is real make a detailed video (make it unlisted so only those with a link can see it) and PM me the way to locate it on YouTube.

I don't think it is an issue with it stacking on itself. I think it is simply giving more than a 20% dodge chance.

A buddy and I tested it just using light bow attacks (he stood stationary with Shuffle on, I fired bow light attacks at him from a few meters away; no other buffs active). 13 dodges in a row. Now, RNG is what it is, and those may be unusual results, but coupled with what I experience daily in PvP, I would certainly say something is amiss with Shuffle.

RNG is what it is, but without a video to prove it I simply just don't believe this. I've never seen anyone on NA PC dodging that much with shuffle.

All I want is video proof.

sagitter · April 2016

Wollust wrote: »

I have not tried that bug out.
I have not tested shuffle.

I use shuffle on every stamina character because it's so useful.
But I've heard enough from seasoned PvPers that shuffle can be exploited to provide more than 20% dodge chance. I know how to do it (allegedly), but I've got not much motivation to pvp at the moment, which is why I''m not planning to try it out for now.
But if I see people, who have been part of the hardcore player community for a while, complaining, I do tend to believe them.

If you know how to reproduce it why don't you just talk to Gina , or send the info to someone that could make a video about it, like Alcast, so we can see the evidence. Making toxic threads or post , without any proof or evidence, is not going to help anyone.

AddictionX · April 2016

keep it under the radar they say so the select few can abuse said bug for longer is the way i look at it. Mostly due to the fact that they can get away with it. Nothing will happen to them. Thats how most of these bug survive .... patch after patch after patch.

Until threads like this are made and its all he said she said. Then counter this by saying "ZoS says they're working on fix" when lets be real and cut the crap before it comes out...

You know they're not getting the full information on said bug because as a community there would be a crack down on said people.... They're giving out just enough so it can get back under the radar again and those can do it another way- the not so common knowledge way so people could stop abusing one way but not the other.

An example of this happening is the mundus stone exploit- Yes it got fix with the knowledge provided that became common knowledge after it was made public but guess what it was only "partly" fixed so that those select few could continue to abuse said bug even after it got fixed one way but not the other and feed into peoples false belief that it was 100 percent fixed.

Thats the problem with the system in place, its so easy to manipulate and exploit it and choose what information goes out and what information you choose to keep hidden.

If there is one way to produce this bug then there must be another way to it as well.

OdinForge · April 2016

I just signed in a little while ago actually to test the method of bugging out shuffle I heard about on this forum, involving animation cancel (not explaining how it works).

I recorded the session as well, video later. I also tested blur (20% dodge from NB tree), and used several different skills.

Shuffle is almost always a 1 in 5 chance to dodge an attack, blur can go 15 attacks without dodging one sometimes (in 3 tests) but shuffle always works on its advertised level.

If shuffle can be bugged, it doesn't involve the method popularized by so many on these forums. I think blur is just a super *** skill that doesn't always work as advertised.