No, they don't. That is provable. Spend more money, please.

Honestly, ZoS needs to head over to DC Universe Online's forums which is a game I played for years since its beta.

The moderators were not the only ones that represented the company that would interact with the players. Oh no, the devs actually did as well. They'd ask for help, ideas and what we liked and actually followed through.

They also added monthly free content for the F2P portion of the player base. They even went on to play with you. The community manager would actually pvp with players and against players and so did the devs as well (like the combat designer and lead).

Before a new DLC dropped they would play whatever new raid or alert (pledge/dungeon) for the players to see LIVE on twitch. The devs even did things as cool as spawning bosses in the HQs of each faction randomly. I/e the heros' Watchtower and the villains' Hall Of Doom. For those who are not familiar with that imagine ESO's devs spawning Molag Bal in Rawl'kaa during peak times or Grahtwood (Im AD so those are my main cities).

That was cool, those are devs and moderators that made you feel like they cared not only about your money but also your enjoyment. When things broke, or bugs came to fruition they would work on that as top priority and get it fixed THEN they would continue working on whatever content was coming up next.

demonaffinity wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Here is the problem I see with player 'feedback'. First off, most players approach things from a selfish, "I want" perspective and they never even take a second to consider that perhaps they are simply an extreme 'minority' of the player base in their opinion and content preference. Instead, they tell themselves that almost everyone plays exactly like them, therefore ZOS should do what they tell them and cater the game to them.

They fail to consider that ZOS has game tracking data, they know things that egocentric players don't want to admit... who is playing what and what the majority of players are playing and how much those players are contributing financially to the game. Further, ZOS also has a design for the game that they are not obligated to share with players and therefore will continue with their design as long as they see the majority of players utilizing it as well as maintaining a healthy player base. Simply because 'players in my guild are leaving' doesn't mean the player population and retention aren't growing or remaining stable... it just means that in your tiny sphere of the game, players are leaving... but your tiny sphere is not an indicator of how the massive WORLD around them is performing.

I get what you are saying. But if we use Cyrodiil as an example again, just look at how little amount of players there are left there. The performance at launch in cyrodiil was miles ahead of how it is now. A lot of players has expressed their frustrations, and I know that in many occassions, Zenimax refused to acknowledge the essence of the problem. A lot of the hardcore streamers/pvpers also tried their best to emphasize what kind of problems there were, and why it was going downhill. I don't know the intention behind each of them, but a lot of them has thousands of followers who agrees with what is being said.

That still does not mean that the majority of players are unhappy, but it should at least send a message to Zenimax, that what they are doing, does not meet the full potential, and showing interest in the playerbase's satisfaction, would make a lot of the unhappy players less bitter.

At this point, I'm afraid to use Fengrush as an example, but I did watch a few of his videos. I don't know if its true or not, but suppossedly Zenimax completely disregarded criticism they recieved during several meetings, and even went as far as to silence those who had something negative to say. Again, I don't know if it's true or not, but all this negative feedback to Zenimax's communication and the downfall of pvp, is too major to ignore.

Lack of communication leads to assumptions and after so much time it leads players to the assumption that they do not care. If they indeed do care they need to make it obvious by fixing what needs to be fixed and acknowledging feed back better and more frequently.

At this point they have ignored it long enough to let it spiral out of control or to the point of no repair in regards to the average pvper's opinion of them or to prevent them from leaving as well as those pver's that post feed back here. Perhaps they see it and are letting it happen and their remedy is to prioritize new content to draw in new people via advertisements to replace those the empty seats.


EDITED ALL MY TYPOS..lol

JadeNaria wrote: »

Honestly, ZoS needs to head over to DC Universe Online's forums which is a game I played for years since its beta.

The moderators were not the only ones that represented the company that would interact with the players. Oh no, the devs actually did as well. They'd ask for help, ideas and what we liked and actually followed through.

They also added monthly free content for the F2P portion of the player base. They even went on to play with you. The community manager would actually pvp with players and against players and so did the devs as well (like the combat designer and lead).

Before a new DLC dropped they would play whatever new raid or alert (pledge/dungeon) for the players to see LIVE on twitch. The devs even did things as cool as spawning bosses in the HQs of each faction randomly. I/e the heros' Watchtower and the villains' Hall Of Doom. For those who are not familiar with that imagine ESO's devs spawning Molag Bal in Rawl'kaa during peak times or Grahtwood (Im AD so those are my main cities).

That was cool, those are devs and moderators that made you feel like they cared not only about your money but also your enjoyment. When things broke, or bugs came to fruition they would work on that as top priority and get it fixed THEN they would continue working on whatever content was coming up next.

So you basically just copied and pasted from the other thread you started and somehow expect to be taken seriously? No matter how many times you post this, doesn't mean miraculously people are going to start agreeing with you about DCUO, nor will it somehow make ZOS behave in a similar fashion.

demonaffinity wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

JadeNaria wrote: »

Honestly, ZoS needs to head over to DC Universe Online's forums which is a game I played for years since its beta.

The moderators were not the only ones that represented the company that would interact with the players. Oh no, the devs actually did as well. They'd ask for help, ideas and what we liked and actually followed through.

They also added monthly free content for the F2P portion of the player base. They even went on to play with you. The community manager would actually pvp with players and against players and so did the devs as well (like the combat designer and lead).

Before a new DLC dropped they would play whatever new raid or alert (pledge/dungeon) for the players to see LIVE on twitch. The devs even did things as cool as spawning bosses in the HQs of each faction randomly. I/e the heros' Watchtower and the villains' Hall Of Doom. For those who are not familiar with that imagine ESO's devs spawning Molag Bal in Rawl'kaa during peak times or Grahtwood (Im AD so those are my main cities).

That was cool, those are devs and moderators that made you feel like they cared not only about your money but also your enjoyment. When things broke, or bugs came to fruition they would work on that as top priority and get it fixed THEN they would continue working on whatever content was coming up next.

So you basically just copied and pasted from the other thread you started and somehow expect to be taken seriously? No matter how many times you post this, doesn't mean miraculously people are going to start agreeing with you about DCUO, nor will it somehow make ZOS behave in a similar fashion.

Copy or not. I think it's relevant for the discussion here. I agree that it feels like an ideal way to communicate with the playerbase. It works for DCUO and it works for Warframe. Why can't it be the case for ESO?

Of course this isn't a way for me to say "Change your ways Zenimax". I want a debate going about the issue, and whatever is relevant to the discussion is welcome here.

Yes I agree . it matters not where original content was posted it is relevant to this conversation here. Even better the typos were fixed

Awesome post OP. Frankly, I'm always a little surprised when I see posts from zos that aren't 'behave yourselves'. Of course
zos wants to and should make a profit from the game, but from my perspective it's the ONLY thing they care about. Ironically, the lack of interest in player feedback and concerns could very well lead to the failure of the game and no profit. I have zero motivation to buy form the crown store when I see little effort from zos to address the many game bugs. FIX THE GAME, already.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

I personally believe Wrecking Blow will never loss it's CC or high damage cause it's a Heavy Armor weapon. What I mean by that is that every armor type is balanced to work with two weapons. Light Armor has the Staffs, Medium Armor has Bow and Dual Wield and Heavy Armor has One Hand and Shield.

When you look at Wrecking Blows damage and CC with a Heavy Armor build you see a whole different story. To me this is logical you think is willing to see yes that how we balanced the weapon powers or anything no. If it was made for Tanks and Heavy Armored Brawlers but medium armored glass canons get better use it would make sense. Medium Armor is for power so Duel Wield granting more damage again fits but it's all my personal theory.

I never thought of the weapon line designs this way, but it makes sense especially when you look at all the stamina/weapon damage sets in the game like the Ravager, Rage, Dreugh King, etc. Many of those come with a complementary 2 handed weapon in the set too.

The heavy armor "bruiser" is one build that never seemed to be optimized in this game, here's hoping that maybe the DB update will make some changes to that. It's always been one of my favorite archetypes to play in other games, much more so than the leather (medium) armor rogue style that stamina builds are forced to play in ESO currently.

notimetocare wrote: »

Fengrage likes to rage... Obvious things aside...

90% of forum response by moderators is forum moderation. That is kind of a given. To get information on many of the things people whine about requires information form the devs and they cant constantly go to the Devs with every minor question. This does not indicate feedback is ignored.

Feedback not resulting in immediate changes or the changes players don't want does not indicate ignoring feedback. What it indicates is that the Devs did not agree with what the playerbase demanded.

Care to define 'mainstream MMO'? The days of a new, WoW sized MMO are long gone if that is what you refer to. It was pretty obvious to many that ESO was going to be a niche MMO.

It is pretty obvious at this point, the lag is on players and the players KNOW they can cause it. Lags #1 cause is giant balls of kiddies spamming aoe in a tiny area. There might actually be things ZoS can do about it, but as long as players decide to run in balls and spam their aoe its only ever going to get marginally better.

There is a simple thing to most MMOs you can follow as far as importances Casual PvE > Hardcore PvE > PvP Casual > PvP Hardcore > singleplayer/rpers. This is your order of importance, where do you fall in that list? That is what determines your priority because that is how populations generally fall in size order of games.

I may not have used the right term. What I meant with "mainstream" mmo, was a game people sticked to for a long duration of time. It seems like there are constantly a select few MMO's that are popular at a time. WoW has been popular for a long time, then Guild Wars 2 etc. When I said mainstream mmo, I meant that ESO would be one of those select few. It's still on the list of good mmos out there, but pvp is dying, which is usually what keeps players going for maybe years. Also PvE content isnt being scaled, so it leaves a wasteland of content behind.

To put it bluntly, ESO seems like a gaming highway. You enter, drive for a while then leave, then the next. Few people stick around for long anymore, instead its a constant flow of new players that ends up leaving. "Fengrage, lol" addressed this in a somewhat similar way. It's not a game for hardcore players anymore, and its getting more and more unforgiving for the players who wants to stick around and support it in the long run.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Zos has made to many changes based on feedback from vocal players and the loudest screams are often screaming about bad ideas that are poorly thought out. Mob rule is historically a bad thing and is not the same as democracy.

Developers should only consider well thought out ideas that demonstrate a solid foundation for the changes and ideas that would have a worthy impact on the game. Almost all of th threads in this game do not meet that minimal criteria. They are merely a small group of players (sometimes very vocal small group) that are merely saying what a small group of the player see wants. Not sufficient or worthy of a change.

To prove Zos listens to players, Zos ditched their full featured MMO style UI for the minimalist style we have today due to a group of players calling for it.

I don't get this idea that minimalistic UI is a result of player feedback??? This was a huge point for Paul sage, to have a minimal UI. Players fought through the entire beta to even be allowed to get add-ons, and it's good we did.. because many skills were broken and there was no way to see the numbers before that to get them fixed for release.

Where does anyone get the idea that players fueled minimal UI? This was part of the sage 'immersion vision' that was often referenced at early development for the reason players couldn't get things they were used to in other MMOs.

I mean.. it's literally the exact opposite of what you posted so I don't know if it's a typo or what..

Of course not, or it will not still take 50 meats and 20 pages to complete Meat for The Masses and Scholarly Salvage.

NobleNerd wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

The players want to believe ZOS cares about their feedback.
ZOS claims they care about players' feedback.
The fact is players don't feel like their feedback matters to ZOS in any way.

There is a fine line between reasonable doubt and a reason to doubt. I don't blame people that do doubt Zenimax for doubting them but there are people that recognize their endeavors and understand what they go through. Unfortunately patience is not this community's strong suit and long periods of time with issues remaining unfixed has broken it for them. Mistakes are made, understandings are had, but in the end this game will see its glorious path realized. When that day comes we will all look back and remember the hardships that were endured on the way and laugh lol

Patience? You think the community since beta hasn't exercised patience with ZOS?

Let's be real here.... The Cyrodiil issues have been in place pretty much since beta. Lag, bugs, glitches and more came with launch even though we provided much feedback about the state of the game during beta. The game launched in an unfinished state!! We have exercised 1-2 years of PATIENCE with ZOS, who to this day still have many of the original issues in the game.

Do I think ZOS listens to player's feedback?... yes

Do I think they are capable or have the staffing to deal with the issues that need to be addressed?... NO!

I just read another person claim that there was nothing wrong with pvp as far as lag at launch and a "lightning" patch caused the lag. Now you say its been like this since before launch?

Zheg wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Zos has made to many changes based on feedback from vocal players and the loudest screams are often screaming about bad ideas that are poorly thought out. Mob rule is historically a bad thing and is not the same as democracy.

Developers should only consider well thought out ideas that demonstrate a solid foundation for the changes and ideas that would have a worthy impact on the game. Almost all of th threads in this game do not meet that minimal criteria. They are merely a small group of players (sometimes very vocal small group) that are merely saying what a small group of the player see wants. Not sufficient or worthy of a change.

To prove Zos listens to players, Zos ditched their full featured MMO style UI for the minimalist style we have today due to a group of players calling for it.

I don't get this idea that minimalistic UI is a result of player feedback??? This was a huge point for Paul sage, to have a minimal UI. Players fought through the entire beta to even be allowed to get add-ons, and it's good we did.. because many skills were broken and there was no way to see the numbers before that to get them fixed for release.

Where does anyone get the idea that players fueled minimal UI? This was part of the sage 'immersion vision' that was often referenced at early development for the reason players couldn't get things they were used to in other MMOs.

I mean.. it's literally the exact opposite of what you posted so I don't know if it's a typo or what..

They may not have 'fueled' it, but there were certainly enough players that loudly agreed with paul sage's vision. You clearly remember fighting for add-ons in beta, do you not remember also fighting the players who thought this was/should be skyrim online? Many strongly argued in favor of a minimal UI.

As to the OP, take a quick look at the alliance war section of the forums and I think the answer is a resounding no.

The minimal UI idea is at its core a ZOS and Bethesda thing from the start. They wanted the MMO to feel similar to playing any ES game. Player feedback had little to do with that choice.

They care about the opinions of their playerbase, but it is ultimately their own choice whether they want to cater to it or not. I think that with how a lot of things have changed over the years it is quite evident they cater to the loudest voices, I mean, how else would you explain all the sets and drops that are specifically made for Hybrid builds? Or the nerfs / buffs to things they didn't require such change.

As for Fengrush. I don't think I've heard him be positive about anything in ESO. It's not that I have anything against the guy, I mean following him into glorious PvP is awesome. I do get the feeling that he is a glass half empty kind of guy though. Good is not good enough.

Personally I think Zeni has done well for the most part, although I have been kind of annoyed but the hybrid build pandering that is evident in the Maw of Lorkhaj veteran loot table. I mean for f*ck sake every single set has 13 weapons, giving you glorious combinations such as a bow of moondancer/twilight remedy or destro/healing staff of alkosh/lunar bastion. Most people that run hybrid builds wouldn't even dare cross magicka weapons with stamina builds (or vice versa) in such a grotesque manner.

It's an MMO, there are literally thousands of people on the forum every day making their own little annoyance out to be the biggest problem in the entire f*cking game. I think any sane person would agree that it would be unreasonable to listen to the majority of these shouting lunatics.

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Personally I have always felt that ZOS does listen to player feedback BUT it listens to a small segment of 'well known' players who are not necessarily representative of the wider player base.

Thus we get these announcements when they tell us with big happy smiles that they have listened to feedback and given us <drum roll> something that only about 10 people want while the rest of us scratch our heads, wonder what planet they are living on and how we could communicate with it...

Then we post here until our threads get closed or we get warned/banned and ZOS probably wonder why we are grumbling about this thing we all asked for.... when none of us actually did....

Who's bright idea was killing the DOT removal from DARK CLOAK?

Did anyone ask for that?