What do we REALLY know about the upcoming VR rank changes?

Paulington · April 2016

Leandor wrote: »

Mcwoods55 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Honest reply....everything is speculation

I will add that anyone who feels that a Vr1 today will be a VR16 after VR removal of they have 160 CP's is going to end up disappointed. Without knowing any details, that idea is a community idea and based off the comments of a ZOS staff that the CP will allow you to equip (maybe) and that some of the skill and stat point per level will roll into 1-50 (maybe).

I think we will be stronger....

Think about it. So far from what I have seen they are going to guarantee 160CP if you dont have enough at a low level vr.... but if you do the math we will get stronger. They are leaving the attribute points and giving us 2.5 cp for every vr level of your highest char so we will gain 40 cp on the day we wake up if we have a vr 16..

It was already said that you only get additional CP if you are below the new target (assumed to be 160) and I think also only up to this target (so basically if you are at 150 cp and have one V16, you still end up at 160).

Ehm no, you've misread.

Everyone is given 2.5 CP per VR on their highest character, so a VR16 player will be given 40 CP on conversion. The only time you get more than 40 is if you are VR16 with <160 CP, then they give you however many you need to hit 160.

Either way, if you are VR16 with 160CP or above come DB, you will be given 40 "free" CP.

Leandor · April 2016

Paulington wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

Mcwoods55 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Honest reply....everything is speculation

I will add that anyone who feels that a Vr1 today will be a VR16 after VR removal of they have 160 CP's is going to end up disappointed. Without knowing any details, that idea is a community idea and based off the comments of a ZOS staff that the CP will allow you to equip (maybe) and that some of the skill and stat point per level will roll into 1-50 (maybe).

I think we will be stronger....

Think about it. So far from what I have seen they are going to guarantee 160CP if you dont have enough at a low level vr.... but if you do the math we will get stronger. They are leaving the attribute points and giving us 2.5 cp for every vr level of your highest char so we will gain 40 cp on the day we wake up if we have a vr 16..

It was already said that you only get additional CP if you are below the new target (assumed to be 160) and I think also only up to this target (so basically if you are at 150 cp and have one V16, you still end up at 160).

Ehm no, you've misread.

Everyone is given 2.5 CP per VR on their highest character, so a VR16 player will be given 40 CP on conversion. The only time you get more than 40 is if you are VR16 with <160 CP, then they give you however many you need to hit 160.

Either way, if you are VR16 with 160CP or above come DB, you will be given 40 "free" CP.

I stand corrected, then. Ah well, brings me to over 650, then, if I keep going the same leisurely pace...

srfrogg23 · April 2016

beasly23 wrote: »

I really hope I am wrong, but I've had a a scary thought. Right now as far as I can tell while earned champion points are currently shared across the entire account progress is specific to a character. Case in point: my VR 16 is working on his next Mage point, as is my VR3 NB and my VR1 sorc. I don't think an earned Mage point (for example) advances my other accounts to the next constellation, so it seems reasonable to conclude progress is currently being tracked per character. That means they already have this data.

Has this always been the case?

Do we have any confirmation that CP are going to continue to be shared cumulatively across all characters? Or will the dark brotherhood patch limit champion points to the character that actually earned them.

It would be less drastic than what we are all hoping for and still retain a ton of grinding even for VR16 max champion point players. This past week my focus has been to get as many characters to VR rank so they can earn CP and benefit my overall account, but now that I've sorta met my goals I'm seeing some serious ambiguity with respect to what we know regarding the changes to VR ranks. On one hand if the change is all VR 1 alts get to be max level way more people would want to play, but on the other hand if they change it to CP are purely character based those of us who are hopelessly addicted to MMO grinds will just play more to max out those alts. I can see this going either way.

Thoughts?

I'd prefer to think that if they planned on making them character bound instead of account bound, they would have said so.

As of yet, I haven't seen anything from them to suggest that they will. That would be a pretty significant shift away from what CPs were originally designed to accomplish.

NateAssassin · April 2016

Wait if I have 2 VR16s, do I get 80 free CP?

NewBlacksmurf · April 2016

Mcwoods55 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Honest reply....everything is speculation

I will add that anyone who feels that a Vr1 today will be a VR16 after VR removal of they have 160 CP's is going to end up disappointed. Without knowing any details, that idea is a community idea and based off the comments of a ZOS staff that the CP will allow you to equip (maybe) and that some of the skill and stat point per level will roll into 1-50 (maybe).

I think we will be stronger....

Think about it. So far from what I have seen they are going to guarantee 160CP if you dont have enough at a low level vr.... but if you do the math we will get stronger. They are leaving the attribute points and giving us 2.5 cp for every vr level of your highest char so we will gain 40 cp on the day we wake up if we have a vr 16..

We will see but I'm over 300+ CPs as a casual and have a VR16, a VR10 and two VR4's.

I don't gather the concept that removing Vr would make non VR16's stronger.
I've not read anything that suggests this either because please understand if they are giving all 50's stat and skill PTS of a vr16, there will be nerfs too.

ElliottXO · April 2016

hydrocynus wrote: »

Yes I said that. But that is all it does. Nothing else.

Wrong. It's also much faster for casuals because of enlightment. My VR7 has 170 CP because I never play the game without.

hydrocynus · April 2016

ElliottXO wrote: »

hydrocynus wrote: »

Yes I said that. But that is all it does. Nothing else.

Wrong. It's also much faster for casuals because of enlightment. My VR7 has 170 CP because I never play the game without.

Enlightenment has nothing to do with XP. Only CP. It is therefore irrelevant to the VR argument.

Wolfshead · April 2016

Leandor wrote: »

Moozzie wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Last information about vranks removal and gear tiers is that, v16 gear is converted to 160cp gear, as in you need to have 160cp to equip. If you are v16 you will be given 160 cp upon vet ranks removal. When and if they decide to make higher gear tiers you will need for example 220 cp to equip.

Is that 160 CP in total or per tree? (warrior, mage, thief)

They did talk about champion rank, therefor I assume 160 in total. Furthermore, using the current (TG) cost formula, you have gained roughly 16'000'000 XP at champion rank 160, which is exactly the amount V16 did take initially. 159 would be a better fit (16.1 mln gained) and fits in with "cap should be at a point divisible by 3 so all trees have same amount".

Going by current rate (850k per point), champion rank 144 would be the direct conversion and fits the "divisible by three" rule.

But then, they also said the were thinking about increasing the points, depending on average CP rank over all active players. So even the 160 (or 159 or 144) is an assumption so far.

ok i many sound like noob now but if you have pass 160 CP atm i have total off 190+ CP on my main char well i lose all those CP i have earn upto VR removal if that is case it is really pointless to play with my VR 16 char now

Lylith · April 2016

let's hope it's not like movement speed: 'fixing' something that isn't broken and consequently breaking it.

Enodoc · April 2016

Caff32 wrote: »

Do you honestly believe that releasing something as game changing as VR removal will happen at the same time as a DLC?

By definition, yes. Major Updates are the ones where new systems and features are introduced. VR removal is a major system change, so it will be part of a Major Update. Major Updates and DLCs are concurrent, because the DLC content is included in the Update. The only way they wouldn't happen at the same time is if they broke their own release schedule of one DLC/Major Update per quarter.

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

The player has earned the 160 CP needed for the Attribute Points and Skill Points.

Both characters share the 160 Champion Points but the Level 20 doesnt have access to the Attribute Points or the Skill Points.

Once the Level 20 character pops Level 50. The character is presented with the Attribute Points and the Skill Points.

There is no need for the second character to earn 160 CP on top of the already owned 160 CP to gain the VR Attribute Points and Skill Points. The VR Attribute Points and Skill Points will be a left over remnant of the Veteran Ranks as to avoid taking anything from those players that already earned them (And rightly so).

Attribute Points and Skill Points have been stated to be moved into the 1-50 levelling. Rather than 1 every level, you'll get 2 at Levels 5/15/25/35/45 and 3 at Levels 10/20/30/40/50.

NateAssassin wrote: »

Wait if I have 2 VR16s, do I get 80 free CP?

No, because CPs are account-wide. They will take the highest level character on your account, and give you 2.5 CPs per VR based on that one character.

hydrocynus wrote: »

ElliottXO wrote: »

hydrocynus wrote: »

Yes I said that. But that is all it does. Nothing else.

Wrong. It's also much faster for casuals because of enlightment. My VR7 has 170 CP because I never play the game without.

Enlightenment has nothing to do with XP. Only CP. It is therefore irrelevant to the VR argument.

It is relevant though, as someone with permanent Enlightenment will be able to get to 160 CPs four times faster than someone with no Enlightenment, meaning they are effectively getting to the equivalent of VR16 four times faster as well.

Wolfshead wrote: »

ok i many sound like noob now but if you have pass 160 CP atm i have total off 190+ CP on my main char well i lose all those CP i have earn upto VR removal if that is case it is really pointless to play with my VR 16 char now

No CPs will be taken away. If you are over the conversion threshold, you'll be given 2.5 CPs per VR. If you are under the conversion threshold, you'll be given 10 CPs per VR. (All of this based on the post from November.)

STEVIL · April 2016

Is it a safe assumption that AT conversion time, existing VR 1-15 chars will get the skills and atts boosted to the level they would have if they were vr16 (or new system level 50?)

Have they said or implied either way?

NewBlacksmurf · April 2016

STEVIL wrote: »

Is it a safe assumption that AT conversion time, existing VR 1-15 chars will get the skills and atts boosted to the level they would have if they were vr16 (or new system level 50?)

Have they said or implied either way?

I've not seen any confirmation on this. Just ideas and thoughts all subject to change completely or partially.

hydrocynus · April 2016

Enodoc wrote: »

hydrocynus wrote: »

ElliottXO wrote: »

hydrocynus wrote: »

Yes I said that. But that is all it does. Nothing else.

Wrong. It's also much faster for casuals because of enlightment. My VR7 has 170 CP because I never play the game without.

Enlightenment has nothing to do with XP. Only CP. It is therefore irrelevant to the VR argument.

It is relevant though, as someone with permanent Enlightenment will be able to get to 160 CPs four times faster than someone with no Enlightenment, meaning they are effectively getting to the equivalent of VR16 four times faster as well.

I will guarantee you right now that a player who is always enlightened will never get to 160 Cp before a player that plays through enlightenment.

Why? Because both players spent the same time enlightened. The second player got more xp from playing out of enlightenment. Enlightenment it's not a catchup tool.

He will level faster for the time he plays but he will never ever catch the guy who is playing when enlightened and when not and will fall further and further behind in real time.

Enodoc · April 2016

STEVIL wrote: »

Is it a safe assumption that AT conversion time, existing VR 1-15 chars will get the skills and atts boosted to the level they would have if they were vr16 (or new system level 50?)

Have they said or implied either way?

That would make sense. If all 64 skill and attribute points are to be granted by the time you reach Level 50, then everyone who is in VR1-15 now will have to be given the ones they don't have. Similarly, everyone above Level 5 will have to be given at least one extra point. For example, someone at Level 42 now would have 41 attribute points, but after conversion, they should have 53, so they will have to be given the extra 12 they don't have as well.

rotaugen454 · April 2016

hydrocynus wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

hydrocynus wrote: »

ElliottXO wrote: »

hydrocynus wrote: »

Yes I said that. But that is all it does. Nothing else.

Wrong. It's also much faster for casuals because of enlightment. My VR7 has 170 CP because I never play the game without.

Enlightenment has nothing to do with XP. Only CP. It is therefore irrelevant to the VR argument.

It is relevant though, as someone with permanent Enlightenment will be able to get to 160 CPs four times faster than someone with no Enlightenment, meaning they are effectively getting to the equivalent of VR16 four times faster as well.

I will guarantee you right now that a player who is always enlightened will never get to 160 Cp before a player that plays through enlightenment.

Why? Because both players spent the same time enlightened. The second player got more xp from playing out of enlightenment. Enlightenment it's not a catchup tool.

He will level faster for the time he plays but he will never ever catch the guy who is playing when enlightened and when not and will fall further and further behind in real time.

The player that is behind will have to play more than the one ahead to fully catchup, but they can at least get in the ballpark. I am over the cap, and it takes me 700,000 XP to gain a CP. It slows me down a lot, so someone who plays as much as me won't fully catch up, but can get closer. Since we both go through 400,000 while enlightened (meaning 100,000 base XP), they can earn a full champion point, while I still need 300,000 unenlightened, which will take 3 times as much as the 100,000 I earned while enlightened.

hydrocynus · April 2016

rotaugen454 wrote: »

hydrocynus wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

hydrocynus wrote: »

ElliottXO wrote: »

hydrocynus wrote: »

Yes I said that. But that is all it does. Nothing else.

Wrong. It's also much faster for casuals because of enlightment. My VR7 has 170 CP because I never play the game without.

Enlightenment has nothing to do with XP. Only CP. It is therefore irrelevant to the VR argument.

It is relevant though, as someone with permanent Enlightenment will be able to get to 160 CPs four times faster than someone with no Enlightenment, meaning they are effectively getting to the equivalent of VR16 four times faster as well.

I will guarantee you right now that a player who is always enlightened will never get to 160 Cp before a player that plays through enlightenment.

Why? Because both players spent the same time enlightened. The second player got more xp from playing out of enlightenment. Enlightenment it's not a catchup tool.

He will level faster for the time he plays but he will never ever catch the guy who is playing when enlightened and when not and will fall further and further behind in real time.

The player that is behind will have to play more than the one ahead to fully catchup, but they can at least get in the ballpark. I am over the cap, and it takes me 700,000 XP to gain a CP. It slows me down a lot, so someone who plays as much as me won't fully catch up, but can get closer. Since we both go through 400,000 while enlightened (meaning 100,000 base XP), they can earn a full champion point, while I still need 300,000 unenlightened, which will take 3 times as much as the 100,000 I earned while enlightened.

The fact that you have that much means you play more than them or do content that levels you faster. I am in same boat. 740k xp per level. It's a pain but I I am still labeling till next one.

If they were to change their habits to play more, they will not be enlightened all the time and will have to earn all the xp that you have earned in order to catch you. If they want to only play when they are enlightened they will have to stop playing every day after 400k xp. So when they get to where you are (in the 540s I guess) they will only be getting half a Cp a day but you are getting that now already so they won't catch you because they have to go through that pain from 501 onwards too.

hydrocynus · April 2016

So my point is that by staying enlightened forever you will never catch those who don't because when you earn 400k they earn 600k so you slip further and further behind.

When you are at his level level you will level through that CP slower than he did. You can't catch him by staying enlightened.

Maybe in the 3000s your and their Cp will be close due to the magnitude of xp required for 1 level but lets hope we are not all still playing when that happens.

Buffler · April 2016

Caff32 wrote: »

Why are you worrying about this now? Do you honestly believe that they will remove VR ranks at the same time they release Dark Brotherhood?

If you watch the ESO live broadcasts, there was one question that was asked about rushing content and the response left me with the belief that Zos was reconsidering their aggressive content release schedule. Do you honestly believe that releasing something as game changing as VR removal will happen at the same time as a DLC? I don't and wouldn't expect the VR removal until at least Q3 at the earliest. This would probably be a good idea since I'd rather they take their time than rush it.

If you watched that ESO live you will also have seen Rich Lambert clearly state that vr ranks WILL be gone in the DB update.

Mcwoods55 · April 2016

Leandor wrote: »

Mcwoods55 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Honest reply....everything is speculation

I will add that anyone who feels that a Vr1 today will be a VR16 after VR removal of they have 160 CP's is going to end up disappointed. Without knowing any details, that idea is a community idea and based off the comments of a ZOS staff that the CP will allow you to equip (maybe) and that some of the skill and stat point per level will roll into 1-50 (maybe).

I think we will be stronger....

Think about it. So far from what I have seen they are going to guarantee 160CP if you dont have enough at a low level vr.... but if you do the math we will get stronger. They are leaving the attribute points and giving us 2.5 cp for every vr level of your highest char so we will gain 40 cp on the day we wake up if we have a vr 16..

It was already said that you only get additional CP if you are below the new target (assumed to be 160) and I think also only up to this target (so basically if you are at 150 cp and have one V16, you still end up at 160).

The main and only difference between VR and CP is that VR was character-bound while CP is account-bound. The change will be done only to appease those players that hesitate to create an alt because of the repeated VR grind.

It is supposed to be absolutely similar to VRs.

As to the attribute and skill points, the 15 additional ones will be rolled into the first 50 levels. Every 5 levels you will gain 2 or 3 instead of 1, or some such. This has been explained by greens.

It was said you only get if below 160 but then in that same place it said something about giving us 2.5 CP per vr level... So I am taking that to mean that if I am already vr 16 and have over 160 CPs (which I do) then I will get an additional 40 CPs... Am I not understanding that the right way?

Guppet · April 2016

hydrocynus wrote: »

So my point is that by staying enlightened forever you will never catch those who don't because when you earn 400k they earn 600k so you slip further and further behind.

When you are at his level level you will level through that CP slower than he did. You can't catch him by staying enlightened.

Maybe in the 3000s your and their Cp will be close due to the magnitude of xp required for 1 level but lets hope we are not all still playing when that happens.

It's not about catching up other players. It's the fact that you can get to 160cp far faster than you could get to VR16. Since there was no boost to xp for VR levels.

It's not even debatable, it's fact. Getting to CP160 using enlightened xp will be significantly quicker than getting to VR16 now. Doesn't matter that they wont catch anyone up, they will get to that 160cp needed for max level gear much much sooner.

You gain 10 CP far quicker than 1 VR level. I came back to my VR9, which had about 65CP, I'm now VR14 with over 180CP. So I gained 115CP in the time I got 4.5 VR levels. That's 250% quicker. It's also going to have improved all my characters too, not just that one VR character. The impact is massive, no two ways about it. If you have alts even more so.

clayandaudrey_ESO · April 2016

You be given the amount of CP to equip the gear you already can. So if you are vr10 with 85 cp you will be given 15 cp so you can equip the equivalent vr10 gear under the new system. If you are vt16 with at least 160 cp then you be given the 2.5 cp per level which equates to 40 cp. At least that is the way I read it.

hydrocynus · April 2016

But why is 160 Cp the target? I don't understand. 501 is level cap. Wont we see things in zone chat like "CP 501 LFG gold?"

What has changed besides that all your toons are now Cp 160? Cp 501s still won't want to group with you and then there will be a massive QQ because all the Cp 160s don't want to grind to 501 (which will take far longer than V1 to v16 on 8 toons by the way if you do the maths)

hydrocynus · April 2016

Rough maths:

8 toons to V16 will cost you 108.8 million xp

Gaining 501 Cp over any amount of tons for all of them at an average of 400k (?) per cp will cost you 200.4 million xp.

I put a question mark next to the 400k as I know it changes but I am guessing it averages at that

hydrocynus · April 2016

To level 8 toons through V1 to v16 will cost you 108.8 million xp

To level across any toons to 501cp will cost you 200.4 million xp at an average of 400 xp per cp (I know it changes. Not sure what is the actual average but should be close.)

wayfarerx · April 2016

hydrocynus wrote: »

Cp 501s still won't want to group with you and then there will be a massive QQ because all the Cp 160s don't want to grind to 501 (which will take far longer than V1 to v16 on 8 toons by the way if you do the maths)

I assume that if this was going to happen it would have happened already. Thankfully, anyone who knows what they're doing also knows that skill vastly outweighs the difference in stats between 160 cp and 501 cp.

hydrocynus wrote: »

Rough maths:

8 toons to V16 will cost you 108.8 million xp

Gaining 501 Cp over any amount of tons for all of them at an average of 400k (?) per cp will cost you 200.4 million xp.

I put a question mark next to the 400k as I know it changes but I am guessing it averages at that

501 cp == 120,827,058 xp (not including xp to level from 1-50)

[source]

Guppet · April 2016

hydrocynus wrote: »

But why is 160 Cp the target? I don't understand. 501 is level cap. Wont we see things in zone chat like "CP 501 LFG gold?"

What has changed besides that all your toons are now Cp 160? Cp 501s still won't want to group with you and then there will be a massive QQ because all the Cp 160s don't want to grind to 501 (which will take far longer than V1 to v16 on 8 toons by the way if you do the maths)

160cp is what you will need to equip the current VR16 gear. So at CP160, you have unlocked that gear much quicker than at VR16.

Sure increasing CP beyond 160 will benefit you, but you won't be able to equip better gear. That is until new tiers come out, which they have already said wont require massive CP jumps.

A CP 160 will be just as powerful as a current VR16 with 160CP, they will just have been able to get there in 40% of the time.

hydrocynus · April 2016

That's nearly double. And you get 4x

wayfarerx wrote: »

hydrocynus wrote: »

Cp 501s still won't want to group with you and then there will be a massive QQ because all the Cp 160s don't want to grind to 501 (which will take far longer than V1 to v16 on 8 toons by the way if you do the maths)

I assume that if this was going to happen it would have happened already. Thankfully, anyone who knows what they're doing also knows that skill vastly outweighs the difference in stats between 160 cp and 501 cp.

hydrocynus wrote: »

Rough maths:

8 toons to V16 will cost you 108.8 million xp

Gaining 501 Cp over any amount of tons for all of them at an average of 400k (?) per cp will cost you 200.4 million xp.

I put a question mark next to the 400k as I know it changes but I am guessing it averages at that

501 cp == 120,827,058 xp (not including xp to level from 1-50)

[source]

Thank you for that. I guess my maths was too simplistic. So more to level to 501 cp than 8 toons from V1 to v16.

I think the general perception of 160 vs 501 Cp is proven by the fact that they have made a non Cp PVP area for those that want to compete on a level footing.

My own opinion is that the most skilled player will be far more effective with 501 Cp than with 160. Just sustain on its own will allow you so much more.

Enodoc · April 2016

hydrocynus wrote: »

But why is 160 Cp the target? I don't understand. 501 is level cap. Wont we see things in zone chat like "CP 501 LFG gold?"

What has changed besides that all your toons are now Cp 160? Cp 501s still won't want to group with you and then there will be a massive QQ because all the Cp 160s don't want to grind to 501 (which will take far longer than V1 to v16 on 8 toons by the way if you do the maths)

People with 160 CPs and people with 501 CPs will be wearing the same gear since (under Rich's suggestion) 160 CPs will be the highest gear available. If gear is the same, the only difference between those players is a bunch of diminishing-returns passives. There's no reason for a 501 CP player to not group with a 160 CP player if you're both wearing the top gear.

Enodoc · April 2016

hydrocynus wrote: »

But why is 160 Cp the target? I don't understand. 501 is level cap. Wont we see things in zone chat like "CP 501 LFG gold?"

What has changed besides that all your toons are now Cp 160? Cp 501s still won't want to group with you and then there will be a massive QQ because all the Cp 160s don't want to grind to 501 (which will take far longer than V1 to v16 on 8 toons by the way if you do the maths)

People with 160 CPs and people with 501 CPs will be wearing the same gear since (under Rich's suggestion) 160 CPs will be the highest gear available. If gear is the same, the only difference between those players is a bunch of diminishing-returns passives. There's no reason for a 501 CP player to not group with a 160 CP player if you're both wearing the top gear.

hydrocynus · April 2016

Guppet wrote: »

hydrocynus wrote: »

But why is 160 Cp the target? I don't understand. 501 is level cap. Wont we see things in zone chat like "CP 501 LFG gold?"

What has changed besides that all your toons are now Cp 160? Cp 501s still won't want to group with you and then there will be a massive QQ because all the Cp 160s don't want to grind to 501 (which will take far longer than V1 to v16 on 8 toons by the way if you do the maths)

160cp is what you will need to equip the current VR16 gear. So at CP160, you have unlocked that gear much quicker than at VR16.

Sure increasing CP beyond 160 will benefit you, but you won't be able to equip better gear. That is until new tiers come out, which they have already said wont require massive CP jumps.

A CP 160 will be just as powerful as a current VR16 with 160CP, they will just have been able to get there in 40% of the time.

But if I am at 501 and you are at 160, when they bring out a new tier I can use it and you can't and all of a sudden people will only want to group with to tier gear. Think about the future when the gear tiers go to 501 cp ie maybe 10 new tiers. Now the new player at 1 cp has a mountain to climb. Imagine if he has 1 toon? He must level more than the equivalent 8 toons to v16 in order to use top tier gear. So in effect he is just like a V1 but needs to grind 8 times more than he would have had to with 1 toon VR ranks to get to the top tier gear. Good luck to him.