@GeorgeBlack ;

Ive looked through your suggestions.

1) twin slashes: im not too sure about the numbers since they are relative. My DK sits at 4.5k weapon damage with 40k stam so my numbers are significantly higher then what you listed so its kinda hard for me to compare. However, removing the DOT means that now twin slashes no longer gets a double buff from both mighty and thamaturge meaning that its a significant PVE nerf. 10s of major brutality is also kind of irrelevant in PVE where pots are king. However you are moving the DOT to hidden blade so maybe it might just work out.

2) Rapid strikes: Im ok with this change and I kinda like it. Dosent affect any group of players adversly.

3) Tornado: Unchanged so no comments.

4) Hidden blade: : No more major brut but gets a DOT... Im kinda confused though. Essentially twin slashes becomes hidden blade and hidden blade becomes twin slashes with these changes. Why the change?? Or what is your train of thought when you suggest these changes. I cant seem to understand so some insight from you might shed some light.

5) Blade veil: A meh skill in both PVP and PVE. It does provide AOE damage mitigation if you can spare the slot... I personally find I dont have slots for this...

Even with these changes, 2H would still be the go to for PVP and DW would still be the go to for PVE imo. The biggest confusion I have is to why you suggest swapping how twin slashes and hidden blade work.

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

@Vangy

I want to maintain DWs identity as a melee skill line, and only improve it for PvP. The current Hidden blade makes rapid strikes and twin slashes useless. Instead of risking with rapid strikes why not spam hidden blade?
Dot favor prolonged battles (tank builds) Tank needs shield. Shield means to DW skill sloted. NB can prolong battle with invisibility. But the surely don't rely on that weak dot skill. They got a lot better class skills.

By making this change DW Becomes melee and not Nado and throwing daggers for PVP

Sry for random numbers.

@GeorgeBlack

Do you think it wise tho, to make hidden blade a DOT and twin slashes a meelee skill? Yes, it would make twin slashes and flurry more favored but the DW tree lacks a gap closer... How would you get in range to enemies? It would warrant you to be a NB with ambush or equipping 2H on your off bar for gap closer (which was what this thread was all about yes?). Like people wanted to use DW instead of 2H for pvp but with the changes you suggested, DW will be even more reliant on 2h then it already is, since we are taking away hidden blade spam.

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

@Vangy

I love dual wield even though it is very bad. I would love to have a proper gap closer. Hidden blade may deal ranged dmg but it is not a gap closer. Think of sorce porting away and riders riding away or you not being able to reach instantly a different enemy and fight him.

However if we add gap closer it becomes like 2h.

Now.. sorc use vast magika and they have Teleport. NBs have ambush in stamina and magika. Templars have binding javellin magika stamina. DKs should get stamina chains morph.

If not HIDDEN blade could be moved to fighters guild as a RANGED answer accessible to all melee chars. That could make way for a new skill in DW. Gap closer if you like

That's the thing tho, as long as DW dosent have a gap closer or a hard hitting instant ability, it will never be better then 2H in PVP for most builds/situations. However, DW does much better than 2H in PVE dps. To me, its a trade off and a better build variety. Moving skills around from DW to FG is very difficult. You'd have to delete an existing skill in that tree and that could upset some builds/people.

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

@Vangy

That's why I propose these changes. To improve DW for PVP while maintaining it's identity. HIDDEN BLADE is not a dual handed weapon ability. It's a throwing dagger

Well, the changes you suggest for hidden blade/twin slashes + flurry being most damage on first hit are okay by me. I dont see a dramatic improvement in PvP even given these changes but they dont seem too drastic. So yeah..

I'm seeing these threads pop up all over the place and I defiantly have thoughts but unless you guys want 2H nerfed you should consider calming down.

The end result of most of these threads will be a guy punch to 2H and while I'm not a big fan of 2H it is functional well except for crit charge.

A real good question to go along with this is why do only NBms have a stamina based gap closer. Even if you wanted to run DW bow on a stam sorc your only gap closing option is silver shard morph where you can pull a target. All other class gap closers are magica.