Revamping stam builds part 3: 1h and Shield skill line

Anti_Virus · April 2016

So it's clear the design focus of this skill line is for tanking, but I believe it has too much emphasis on tanking and not enough dmg skills for a weapon skill line. Traditionally warrior used a sword on their main hand to kill opponent and shield on the off hand to take a beating by blocking attacks

Problem is shields weren't always effective for mitigating dmg a shield can only point in one direction effectively blocking about 90-180 degrees of dmg but archers and other warriors could strike other parts of the body in dmg and this is where heavy armor comes in, Heavy armor is the defense that makes a warrior a 'Tank' and shields enhances(for lack of a better term) defenses. So what i'd like to see change to this skill line is more focus on dmg and less focus on defense simply because the dmg mitigation is so high that light and medium armor builds can be very tanky making heavy armor useless.

I'd like to see some of the passive from this skill lines moved over to the heavy armor skill line and the passives redesigned to fit the dps side of the skill line.

My suggestions are intended for both PVP and PVE

I'll briefly talk about each skill and passives and give suggestions to how it could be changed here we go:

Puncture: Standard taunt that causes major fracture. A powerful skill but I don't think this skill should be a taunt skill because the undaunted taunt is superior due to the range and synergy. it would work better as a dps skill in PVE for tanks to dish out just a little bit of dmg to a boss. My Suggestion: increase the dmg of this skill by 15%

Ransack: Grants minor resolve. again solid skill for mitigating a small amount of dmg My Suggestion: Increase the dmg of the skill by 15%

Pierce Armor: Causes major fracture and major breech. Suggestions for this morph is up in the air since I can't really think of a unique idea other than ' increase the dmg'

Low Slash: Low slash and its morphs are fine as is.

Shield Charge: Shield charge and it's morphs are fine as is.

Defensive Stance: reflects one spell projectile. Great utility skill for the skill line but it should reflect all kinds of projectiles This will help in PVE against Archer NPCs that uses lethal abilities such as Taking aim and quick shot attacks, in PVP it would reflect snipe and Vampire Crossbolts from the FG skill line My Suggestion: reflect one spell or physical projectile for all morphs.

Power Bash: Power bash and it's morphs are fine as is.

Ultimate:

Rage: cost: 170, target: AoE
Description: Slam your shield into the ground dealing dealing x physical dmg and knocking opponents in the air.

Morph 1- Berserker Rage
NEW EFFECT: Grants minor force increasing critical strike dmg for you and near by allies for 10 secs.

Morph 2-Warriors Wrath
NEW EFFECT: Grants Minor Protection reducing dmg by 8% and an additional 4% dmg reduction for each enemy hit (caps at 6) for 10 secs

Passives:

Sword and Board: increases weapon dmg by 5% and block mitigation by 30%, My Suggestion: increases weapon dmg by 10% and reduces the cost of block by 20%

Deadly Bash: This passive is fine as is.

Fortress: reduces the cost of block by 30% and reduces the cost of 1h and shield abilities by 10%. My Suggestion: Reduces the cost of 1h and shield abilities by 20% and restores x amount of stam for blocked hits every 5 sec.

Deflect Bolts: This passive is fine as is.

Battle Field Mobility: This passive is fine as is.

There, those are my though? What are yours? Please feel free to critic these ideas and add your own!
In my next post i'll talk about the dual wield skill line.

Lynx7386 · April 2016

One big problem I've always had with the 1h/shield line is that it isnt offensive enough. The devs at zenimax have treated it basically like a "tanking" line rather than a weapon line. Every ability in the 1h/shield tree costs more stamina and does less damage than equivalents from any other weapon or class skill tree, and in exchange for that massive inefficiency and low damage output you get... slightly more block chance and block reduction, and a moderate boost on bash damage.

Fact is, historically shields were just as effective in an offensive use as when defending (and not just for spartans). Shields were often quite small, actually only used for deflecting and parrying rather than full on blocking, but had blades or spikes affixed to them to serve as a secondary weapon. In most cultures, bucklers were more common than actual shields - you dont need a big heavy plank of wood when a small buckler can do the job and also be a quick weapon in your off hand.

The 1h/shield line is also very much lacking in any sort of area damage/area attacks, while every other weapon line (short of resto staff, obviously) has both single target and multi target abilities.

So if you ask me:

Low Slash Should be made into a cleaving attack that hits several enemies in front of you.
Puncture Should have it's damage increased for a better damage-to-stamina ratio.
Defensive Stance Should work more like reflective scales, lasting for a short duration but reflecting more than a single attack, as well as working against both spells and projectiles.
Power Bash Should have its damage greatly increased and stamina cost decreased in order to become a burst, higher-dps ability.

Anti_Virus · April 2016

Lynx7386 wrote: »

One big problem I've always had with the 1h/shield line is that it isnt offensive enough. The devs at zenimax have treated it basically like a "tanking" line rather than a weapon line. Every ability in the 1h/shield tree costs more stamina and does less damage than equivalents from any other weapon or class skill tree, and in exchange for that massive inefficiency and low damage output you get... slightly more block chance and block reduction, and a moderate boost on bash damage.

Fact is, historically shields were just as effective in an offensive use as when defending (and not just for spartans). Shields were often quite small, actually only used for deflecting and parrying rather than full on blocking, but had blades or spikes affixed to them to serve as a secondary weapon. In most cultures, bucklers were more common than actual shields - you dont need a big heavy plank of wood when a small buckler can do the job and also be a quick weapon in your off hand.

The 1h/shield line is also very much lacking in any sort of area damage/area attacks, while every other weapon line (short of resto staff, obviously) has both single target and multi target abilities.

So if you ask me:

Low Slash Should be made into a cleaving attack that hits several enemies in front of you.
Puncture Should have it's damage increased for a better damage-to-stamina ratio.
Defensive Stance Should work more like reflective scales, lasting for a short duration but reflecting more than a single attack, as well as working against both spells and projectiles.
Power Bash Should have its damage greatly increased and stamina cost decreased in order to become a burst, higher-dps ability.

Excellent ideas man, and yeah sword and shield should be a dps weapon, It's sad that it's used as a Tanking weapon and light/medium armor builds only use it to tank.

Mojmir · April 2016

1.)shield throwing should be a thing.
2.) one handed wep. just feels weak in combat.
3.) the first 2 skills of the line dont stand out as symbolic to that skill line, if anything they belong in dual wields line.
4.) why no metal shields? increased damage mitigation and damage output from bash

Anti_Virus · April 2016

Mojmir wrote: »

1.)shield throwing should be a thing.
2.) one handed wep. just feels weak in combat.
3.) the first 2 skills of the line dont stand out as symbolic to that skill line, if anything they belong in dual wields line.
4.) why no metal shields? increased damage mitigation and damage output from bash

Funny, shield throwing was an idea I had for a 1h and shield ultimate.

vontariel · April 2016

Dont go cpt. America here, it's never good idea.

Shield was used as a weapon (but this is about game not history discussion). In real world there is no need to balance weapon. In fact it would be most stupid concept ever. We should stay in game reality.

Problem is that heavy armor and Shield are both use to bolster defenses which always should come with a cost of cutting offense potential.
Currently heavy needs some love because, heavy armor gains are too weak considering medium/light bonuses loss.
Shield does not come with that tax because I still have access to class skills meaning high(er) defense with little loss in dmg (5% of dmg bonus from dw if i remember correctly). Its mostly valid for Magicka builds, because for them weapon choice is mainly for stats (that's why so many people use dual wield). It's very clear that problem is with class skills being so superior to weapon skills. And because class skills are Magicka in majority...add 1+1 and you'd see why is problem with stamina vs magicka builds, especially with TG buffs to magicka. Buffing weapons (to be SUPERIOR choice than class skill - it comes with weapon restriction tax after all) and expanding skill list is step in good direction, but without overhaul/rebalancing numbers of class abilities (also more stamina morphs and physical damage type etc) it would be unachievable to have that sort of balance we all would want to have.
I dunno why there are no weapon skills that cost Magicka, (outside of staves of course) or there are only maximum 5 skills per tree. Breaking that setup and moving some skills from class to public pool could be very helpful and the problem "same but in blue" will disappear, which lead to easier managable skills.
With careful rebalance to passives, it could be even that only ultimate or 1-2 skills are class "signature" and rest is to use by all. But it'll be only in dreams realm since chances are next to none sucheck changes will ever occur.

Making it valid dps choice, combined with increase in defensive capabilities, would make this combo must choice in pvp. And it's already very common setup.

For me there is one change that should be made: defensive stance and it's morphs should be swapped with reflective scales. And this will kill two birds with one stone.