Need option for Major Sorcery buff from weapon skill for balance.

Phinix1 · April 2016

Any stamina user can slot a 2H on their buff bar and have access to a powerful heal ability (Rally) that also gives them Major Brutality (20% weapon damage) for a full 30 seconds! (Not to mention the most powerful single target ability in the game, but that's another story.)

Magicka users get nothing similar from ANY weapon! The only non-class ability that gives Major Sorcery (20% spell power) is Entropy from the Mages Guild which requires being cast on an enemy, has a meaningless heal by comparison, and only lasts 20 seconds.

ZOS please add the equivalent of 2H Rally for magicka users.

OPTIONS:

Add it to the Destruction Staff. Combine Force Shock and Destructive Touch if you need room.
Change Entropy to be essentially a "Magicka Rally." (Best option.)
Add wands to the game and add the buff to THAT skill tree.

We need something. Particularly Magicka Templar.

At the very least, make Entropy last a full 30 seconds like the Rally buff does!

EDIT.

Callous2208 · April 2016

forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/256700/magicka-templar-needs-a-fire-and-forget-major-sorcery-class-buff

Acrolas · April 2016

This is the "forget" part of the "fire and forget."

Callous2208 · April 2016

Acrolas wrote: »

This is the "forget" part of the "fire and forget."

Phinix1 · April 2016

Callous2208 wrote: »

forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/256700/magicka-templar-needs-a-fire-and-forget-major-sorcery-class-buffDoesn't this exact thread already exist?

Not really. That thread was specifically about magicka Templar and how every other class has a way to get the 20% buff from their class skills.

This is more about Stamina vs. Magicka balance in general, as the presence of this buff from a stamina weapon and not a magicka weapon line represents a far greater imbalance IMHO.

Emma_Overload · April 2016

Dual Wands would be awesome! Please make this happen @ZOS.

Phinix1 · April 2016

Sadly I think we are stuck with the skills we have. It would be asking too much at this point for a major overhaul to slot this buff into magicka weapons somehow.

The only way this would get added is if they added wands to the game, but I never really see that happening either...

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Dual Wands would be awesome! Please make this happen @ZOS.

Indeed it would be. So very awesome. Can dream anyway.

Callous2208 · April 2016

Phinix1 wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/256700/magicka-templar-needs-a-fire-and-forget-major-sorcery-class-buffDoesn't this exact thread already exist?

Not really. That thread was specifically about magicka Templar and how every other class has a way to get the 20% buff from their class skills.

This is more about Stamina vs. Magicka balance in general, as the presence of this buff from a stamina weapon and not a magicka weapon line represents a far greater imbalance IMHO.

So you're trying to be an outsider and buck the trend? Ignoring the fact that magicka outclasses stam in nearly every way imaginable at this point in the game. I'm sorry, I disagree that magicka classes need a rally style weapon move for major sorcery. Just seems like overkill with all of the other tools they have to work with.

Acrolas · April 2016

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Dual Wands would be awesome!

This is Elder Scrolls, not a marine iguana.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · April 2016

Not sure every class needs access to everything, kind of defeats the point of classes. Templars can get spell power in 3 ways, Structured Entropy, Pots, or making friends with a DK. The also get empower from their class skills which is pretty nice (dark flare/radiant combo anyone?). NBs have the extra option of Sap, but it still requires you to be in combat. Sorcs can get it from a class skill, which makes sense because well, they are freaking sorcerers. DKs can give it to a whole group. Seems like there is probably enough diversity in how to get this.

Rally is arguably one of the most powerful skills in the game. I would suggest that rally is perhaps a bad skill to mimic because a very common complaint is that it forces all stam users to run a 2H.

Phinix1 wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/256700/magicka-templar-needs-a-fire-and-forget-major-sorcery-class-buffDoesn't this exact thread already exist?

Not really. That thread was specifically about magicka Templar and how every other class has a way to get the 20% buff from their class skills.

This is more about Stamina vs. Magicka balance in general, as the presence of this buff from a stamina weapon and not a magicka weapon line represents a far greater imbalance IMHO.

Also, Magic is already way more powerful than stam across the board. This would increase that gap.

Phinix1 · April 2016

Callous2208 wrote: »

Phinix1 wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/256700/magicka-templar-needs-a-fire-and-forget-major-sorcery-class-buffDoesn't this exact thread already exist?

Not really. That thread was specifically about magicka Templar and how every other class has a way to get the 20% buff from their class skills.

This is more about Stamina vs. Magicka balance in general, as the presence of this buff from a stamina weapon and not a magicka weapon line represents a far greater imbalance IMHO.

So you're trying to be an outsider and buck the trend? Ignoring the fact that magicka outclasses stam in nearly every way imaginable at this point in the game. I'm sorry, I disagree that magicka classes need a rally style weapon move for major sorcery. Just seems like overkill with all of the other tools they have to work with.

You'll have to give some examples of that rather bold claim that magicka "outclasses stam in nearly every way." Try to use something other than Sorcerer shields.

Honestly, it is difficult to see how anyone interested in balance could argue against having the same basic 20% buff available to both magicka and stamina.

Phinix1 · April 2016

I think the simplest and most likely option to get through the "too much work" complacency filter would be this:

Change the Entropy skill altogether and make it essentially a "Magicka Rally."

The HOT is useless as it is anyway, and the damage is single target and minimal.

Danksta · April 2016

Phinix1 wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/256700/magicka-templar-needs-a-fire-and-forget-major-sorcery-class-buffDoesn't this exact thread already exist?

Not really. That thread was specifically about magicka Templar and how every other class has a way to get the 20% buff from their class skills.

This is more about Stamina vs. Magicka balance in general, as the presence of this buff from a stamina weapon and not a magicka weapon line represents a far greater imbalance IMHO.

Yes, because magicka needs to be buffed to be in line with stamina.

idk · April 2016

Lol. Funny. Magika outperforms stamina any day of the week and that's not enough for some people.

No to OP.

Phinix1 · April 2016

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Not sure every class needs access to everything...

No one is suggesting such a thing. I appreciate class diversity as much as anyone. But we aren't talking about Nightblade-y teleports or Sorcerer shields here, we're talking about a basic flat 20% damage buff.

It is what you would call a "bread and butter buff." Something that has no specific class identity and which every character in the game regardless of class or spec has to find a way to get in some way or another if they want to be competitive.

Forcing one specific class and spec to go through convoluted (single target damage ability forcing clunky bar swaps or wasted space) or expensive (pop a potion every fight) hoops to get what another class or spec can gain by hitting a non-combat toggle on their off/buff bar is just bad design.

Phinix1 · April 2016

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Lol. Funny. Magika outperforms stamina any day of the week and that's not enough for some people.

No to OP.

Another hyperbolic post with no insight whatsoever as to WHY or HOW magicka "outperforms stamina any day of the week" without a flat 20% buff that ALL classes and specs need to gain in some way to be competitive.

If you don't have anything specific or constructive to add, kindly take your unqualified "no" elsewhere.

WolfingHour · April 2016

One more change requesr to homogenise playstyles even further.

No thank you.

Callous2208 · April 2016

Phinix1 wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Phinix1 wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/256700/magicka-templar-needs-a-fire-and-forget-major-sorcery-class-buffDoesn't this exact thread already exist?

Not really. That thread was specifically about magicka Templar and how every other class has a way to get the 20% buff from their class skills.

This is more about Stamina vs. Magicka balance in general, as the presence of this buff from a stamina weapon and not a magicka weapon line represents a far greater imbalance IMHO.

So you're trying to be an outsider and buck the trend? Ignoring the fact that magicka outclasses stam in nearly every way imaginable at this point in the game. I'm sorry, I disagree that magicka classes need a rally style weapon move for major sorcery. Just seems like overkill with all of the other tools they have to work with.

You'll have to give some examples of that rather bold claim that magicka "outclasses stam in nearly every way." Try to use something other than Sorcerer shields.

Honestly, it is difficult to see how anyone interested in balance could argue against having the same basic 20% buff available to both magicka and stamina.

Don't feign ignorance to try and be cute and further your cause. Everyone is aware of the current disparity between mag and stam. Including you. Your suggestion widens that gap for the sake of equality in what a skill does.

Phinix1 · April 2016

WolfingHour wrote: »

One more change requesr to homogenise playstyles even further.

No thank you.

I think you forgot to read the thread first. Here, I'll post the relevant part that was already covered:

Phinix1 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Not sure every class needs access to everything...

No one is suggesting such a thing. I appreciate class diversity as much as anyone. But we aren't talking about Nightblade-y teleports or Sorcerer shields here, we're talking about a basic flat 20% damage buff.

It is what you would call a "bread and butter buff." Something that has no specific class identity and which every character in the game regardless of class or spec has to find a way to get in some way or another if they want to be competitive.

Forcing one specific class and spec to go through convoluted (single target damage ability forcing clunky bar swaps or wasted space) or expensive (pop a potion every fight) hoops to get what another class or spec can gain by hitting a non-combat toggle on their off/buff bar is just bad design.

Xjcon · April 2016

What's wrong with Entropy? You have an ability that you can slot and get Major Sorcery....but you want to change the Staff skill line instead? Just WoW.

What about shields? Can Stamina get shields that scale with stamina?

Samadhi · April 2016

Phinix1 wrote: »

I think the simplest and most likely option to get through the "too much work" complacency filter would be this:

Change the Entropy skill altogether and make it essentially a "Magicka Rally."

The HOT is useless as it is anyway, and the damage is single target and minimal.

Entropy is interesting, because the skill would actually be improved by removing entire DoT+HoT effect and making it into such a buff.

If ZOS really wants to keep a low-power DoT/HoT in game and available to all players, just slap the effect onto Soul Trap.

A self-buff that increases a character's skill in the arcane arts sounds more in line with the Mages' Guild values than energy/health stealing anyway.

CyrusArya · April 2016

If you're referring to simply the major brutality buff, that's one thing. But magicka builds do not need a rally style burst heal by any means. Every single magicka class would be instantly OP were that the case, so magicka rally is out of the question. Regarding entropy, it's easily one of the best PvP skills in the game. Cheap and spammable hot/dot that gives you major brutality and passively buffs max magicka and regen by 2 percent while granting empower on every cast. All around so good on any magicka build, especially for setting up big burst damage. Are you implying this isn't a great skill?

At any rate, I'm opposed to homogenizing the two playstyles. Stamina has rally magicka has healing ward. Both can be incredibly survivable, but in their own unique ways. And that's how it should be.

Makkir · April 2016

You forgot to mention Entrophy procs the mage guild dmg buff

Also, I understand you are directing this to templars but in spirit of the title...sorcerers have Surge

STEVIL · April 2016

Phinix1 wrote: »

Honestly, it is difficult to see how anyone interested in balance could argue against having the same basic 20% buff available to both magicka and stamina.

Balance is sbout FAR MORE than any individual sub-trait in a skill in a weapons line.

Once you turn the "balance" perspective" discussion down to having all stamina and magica users hsving all the same basic buffs (bc sorcery isnt the only one) you wind up drowning in a sea of myopic minutia as one after another continue until flavorkess sameness balances all.

I realise the date so this may well be a joke post or reductio ad absurdum but why not start you case for magica side improvements by establishing the are being outperformed.

Phinix1 · April 2016

At the very least, make Entropy last a full 30 seconds like the Rally buff does!

Ignore the heal component altogether. All I am concerned about here is the bread and butter 20% buff that all classes and builds require.

It should not require a Rube Goldbergian mechanism for magicka users to jump through.

Ayalaya · April 2016

I'm just happy that ESO is a game where all classes don't have the same type of skills.

Phinix1 · April 2016

Eh what's the point.

Dubhliam · April 2016

Phinix1 · April 2016

Dubhliam wrote: »

Because spending tens of thousands of gold every week chugging potions every fight for a bread and butter non-class 20% buff that everyone else gets by toggling a non-combat self-skill on their off bar is totally a legit solution.

You should join the ZOS dev team. I sense you might bring balance.

STEVIL · April 2016

RE This...Because spending tens of thousands of gold every week chugging potions every fight for a bread and butter non-class 20% buff that everyone else gets by toggling a non-combat self-skill on their off bar is totally a legit solution.
You should join the ZOS dev team. I sense you might bring balance.[/quote]

Imo if you have to spend even 1k a week on potions, something is wrong. My alchemist is drowning in mats for potions and i have all 8 chr stocked full of their favorites and so, its all free.

Also, you dont need the potions for every fight, imo, usually only the biggies.

All weapon lines are not the same, dont have the same traits and shouldnt.

"This one id different" is just not sufficient to support changes for balance. Need to show overall, problematic imbalance.

ADarklore · April 2016

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Lol. Funny. Magika outperforms stamina any day of the week and that's not enough for some people.

No to OP.

And then when the next major patch hits with DB and STAMINA gets its balance... we'll see where Magicka is sitting. Then all we'll hear is "Stamina is too OP, Magicka needs to be buffed" complaints.