Do I just suck, or are Heists pretty hard to finish within the time limit?

Recremen · March 2016

They're definitely hard, but quite doable even without Invisibility. You can do it as any race and class, but it's incredibly unwise to go in without full Medium Armor, 5 pieces of Night's SIlence, and full sneak cost reduction. You can, as Mr, ZOSman said, but I would not personally recommend it. It only costs a few skill points for the passives and is totally worth it.

Czeri · March 2016

I haven't been able to get a bonus yet either. I did find that you can one shot regular guards, which doesn't get you noticed. The lamp guards, OTOH, seem to have some built-in immunity, where they only take a percentage of your normal damage output.

Xendyn · March 2016

I have a hard time with some of them but I do get the bonus sometimes. I have the same rule as the Thieves Guild tho.

The Thieves Guild doesn't kill.

So I don't cheese them. If I get it, it will be playing it the way it was intended.

Moonshadow66 · March 2016

I only did a heist once, it was in some cave and I was about 10 minutes (!) over the timer when I finally finished it. Not doing that again, ever. Being on a timer is so stressful to me that I rather consider quitting for good than continuing playing. Whatever.. I guess I'm just getting old.

dodgehopper_ESO · March 2016

Usara wrote: »

I wish I could go in a 24-man raid. And see everyone using the hiding spot at the same time

Barrels would become clown cars.

Silver_Strider · March 2016

Night Silence is your friend during those heists, well worth it just for these missions.
Fastest I've ever cleared one of these was 3 minutes so far. Now if only I could get a full set of Darkstride to make my stamina cost even more cost effective.
Sadly, the quest rewards aren't the greatest but I do like the look of the light armor they reward, especially the robes.

dodgehopper_ESO · March 2016

I've completed the optionals a number of these on my Templar as well, and the Nightblade character is much easier. In fact because it is easier I'm less careful on the NB and have failed an attempt because of that. Potions are key, and I agree with @nurrtibub16_ESO about this. There are a few locations that are just bad. I've run into scenarios where lantern guards are overlapping circles and never move out of range enough to pass them (All while blocking a corridor and facing opposite directions). There need to be some solutions to the lantern guards, and I'd love to see a distraction active skill of some kind or a blinding skill.

Another issue that ought to be looked at is an issue of pathing. I've not been able to play for a week or more (due to work) but one issue that bothered me is some heists seem to only work if you choose the correct fork in the road. If you go left for instance and the traffic flow is set for right path, you are shooting yourself in the foot. I would be fine with that if it were obviously a bad route (ie: you enter a mansion via the front door, with guard dogs and guards lined up at the entry). There should at least be visual cues like this to warn you in my view.

Speaking of which I'd love to see two part heists like in Thief. The two part heist would involve breaking into a compound and sneaking up to the interior. Step two would be breaking into the interior itself. I'd love to see a system whereby guards can whistle for reinforcements instead of time lost. I'd love to have to hide unconscious/bodies so patrols don't see them on the path.

AdamBourke · March 2016

If you fail to finish in time, or you know you're going to fail, you can abandon the quest and do it again. I don't know if this is a bug or not - so it might change.

Interestingly, retrying a Heist does not reset it completely. I was in the Daedric Ruin one today and when I restarted, all the chests I had unlocked remained unlocked. In addition, once the Daedroth had arrived, he stayed there even in the retries - making things difficult.

Annoyingly, I still didn't do it in the time. I ALMOST did. I was almost at the exit with maybe 20s to spare, when I was seen by a guard who I couldn't see, and my remaining time was removed...

So yes, I think heists are too hard.

snoogadooch · March 2016

I crafted a movement speed in stealth set and that's about all I needed to make it easy

Sausage · March 2016

It takes a bit of practice, I abandoned yesterday's Heist a few time but I think I got the idea, sometimes its better to kill a guard than wait it to walk past and not to mention skip Chest if you cant take it and come back to it again and hope the timing is better then, when you come back to finish the the quest. Actually I go to do today's right now. I hope they dont get nerfed because they are just fun when they are hard.

Vorcil · March 2016

JMadFour wrote: »

Be honest, it's ok if it is just me and I suck, I'll just try to git gud or whatever. i'll take whatever advice you can give.

Heists, don't seem to encourage actual careful, sneaky play. it seems to encourage more of a sprint while spamming Dark Cloak kind of "stealth", until you see the Lamp Guards.

I'm waiting for the Guard with the lamp to move so I can sneak past him, and time is ticking down, and I'm just like "MOVE, GET OUTTA MY WAY ALREADY." and it takes the guy like 20-25 seconds to get far enough away for me to jump out of the basket and haul ass to the next one. that 20 seconds is precious man. especially since if you get seen for even a split-second you lose like half of your time(it seems).

any hints to help me more reliably complete these without having to constantly abandon and start over?

You just suck

jbcrocks · March 2016

ZOS_JasonBarnes wrote: »

Hi everyone!

I wanted to let you all know that we’ve been reading the feedback and doing a lot of internal playtesting ourselves to adjust heists to where we want them to be. We want to try and fix some of the frustrating elements and make sure all the heists are in line with one another as far as difficulty goes.

The optional time bonus is supposed to be hard, but not unfair. It should also be doable if played just right even in full heavy armor and no points into any stealth reduction. You just have to play it very well.

That said, here are some of the things we’re hitting in the next several patches and you should see come online over time to help with this:

- Deadhollow Halls is getting adjusted to fall more in line with other heists. This includes changing some hard to see traps, adjusting where monsters move to, and how long you have to wait for them to move away from certain locations.
- Several bug fixes including the timer removing more time than intended when being seen by a group of monsters at the same time.
- Evaluating the loot you receive for completing the bonus quests.

We’ll continue to take a look at heists as a whole and see what else might need to be tweaked, but I wanted to update everyone and just let folks know that we’re looking into these things.

Also, please do test it with a dk or a templar and not a nb with cloak thank you

jbcrocks · March 2016

Is it possible to kill them instead of sneaking? This is how I did it in skyrim

UrQuan · March 2016

jbcrocks wrote: »

Is it possible to kill them instead of sneaking? This is how I did it in skyrim

It is, but each time you get spotted you lose time from your time limit. So realistically if you go through the heist killing everyone instead of sneaking, it will be impossible to do it within the time limit to get the extra reward.

ArgoCye · March 2016

I've only done the one and I found it pretty easy. I did have to kill once - but hiding from the guards was not too hard. I am a Khajit (not NB tho), so I do get a stealth bonus which may make a difference.

I was surprised I enjoyed it as much as I did, so I don't know that heists need to be changed too much.

Necrelios · March 2016

Heists are like endgame content for thieves. It's like the Maelstrom Arena for thievery

With the time limit being what it is I think they should let you bring a friend along though so you can split up the task. Some of these it takes me twice that long just to find the dang things, let alone worry about being undetected.

The one perfect heist I did manage to get, I had to abandon it and start over about 7 times until I memorized the layout well enough. There's some guys laying down on cots or sleeping or hiding out in the corners which always throw me off so you have to watch out carefully for those.

UrQuan · March 2016

Necrelios wrote: »

Heists are like endgame content for thieves. It's like the Maelstrom Arena for thievery With the time limit being what it is I think they should let you bring a friend along though so you can split up the task. Some of these it takes me twice that long just to find the dang things, let alone worry about being undetected.

You can bring a friend. Just share the quest with them.

Mind you, I haven't actually done this myself, so I don't know if you split the task or if you both have to do it, but I know you can bring a friend.

Necrelios · March 2016

UrQuan wrote: »

Necrelios wrote: »

Heists are like endgame content for thieves. It's like the Maelstrom Arena for thievery With the time limit being what it is I think they should let you bring a friend along though so you can split up the task. Some of these it takes me twice that long just to find the dang things, let alone worry about being undetected.

You can bring a friend. Just share the quest with them.

Mind you, I haven't actually done this myself, so I don't know if you split the task or if you both have to do it, but I know you can bring a friend.

That's probably the trick then! I didn't know you could do that. Should be a lot easier if two people can split up and cut the time in half. I'm going to have to try this.

AOECAPS · March 2016

Eh after a couple you will fly through them I got the achievement not to be seen and will never be doing a heist ever again.

lathbury · March 2016

The only one I cut it close with is the deadra one dead somthing hollow twice I have been there and twice had fractions of a second left to spare. the others yeah have like 4 minutes left at the end.

Haxnschwammer · March 2016

I realized that line of sight is your friend. There are a few places where you have to walk behind a guard and just ignore the blue circle. One of the guards stands right beside a chest and don't ever move. So it's easy if you know that. Another guard walks without a break up and down the way, but always walks behind a big crate which gives you a second to pass unseen. There are some spots where you can hide behind a fence or a plank or a small rock that breaks line of sight for the guards, even if you can clearly see them. Also height is an advantage. The guard is two meters above you? No detection. And of course, those guys without a blue circle can be passed with invisibility potions, even those pesky 200k health special mobs. Speed buffs will help a lot. Also take shortcuts like jumping down the bridge...

If you run out of time, abandon quest and restart. Use this to practice, look where chests are, how guards move (or stand still) or just kill everything and drop the special reward. Rewards aren't that good anyway.

And a funny story afterwards:
Was finished with like 4 minutes left and on the way out. There was the last guard comming so I wanted to jump into a basket. Pressed E but nothing happend. Pressed E again and I'm moving in slow motion. Seems there was a pebble on the ground... I get spotted and loose a minute, but jump in. And out. Get spotted, loose a minute again...
Back in to break combat. Wait some time to get rid of the guard, jump out and sneak to the exit. Suddenly a trap respawns, hits me and I got spotted and loose a minute. OK, some seconds left so MOOOVE, get to the exit. I nearly made it by a split second... Went back to the cave and killed everybody, then restarted the heist.

Septimus_Magna · March 2016

I completed a heist within the time limit without getting detected the second try on my sorc.
Some maps are a lot easier than others. And I sometimes dont get/see the clairvoyance radius around NPCs with a lantern.

For gear I would recommend 5pc Night Silence to ignore movement speed while sneaking and 3pc Nightshade to reduce the detection radius.

anitajoneb17_ESO · March 2016

Necrelios wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Necrelios wrote: »

Heists are like endgame content for thieves. It's like the Maelstrom Arena for thievery With the time limit being what it is I think they should let you bring a friend along though so you can split up the task. Some of these it takes me twice that long just to find the dang things, let alone worry about being undetected.

You can bring a friend. Just share the quest with them.

Mind you, I haven't actually done this myself, so I don't know if you split the task or if you both have to do it, but I know you can bring a friend.

That's probably the trick then! I didn't know you could do that. Should be a lot easier if two people can split up and cut the time in half. I'm going to have to try this.

LOL nope, wouldn't work. Each of you would have to collect his own hidden treasures, they're not registered for all the group members. I think doing it in a group makes it far more difficult. You'd also probably have to wait for chests to respawn...

.

lathbury · March 2016

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

I completed a heist within the time limit without getting detected the second try on my sorc.
Some maps are a lot easier than others. And I sometimes dont get/see the clairvoyance radius around NPCs with a lantern.

For gear I would recommend 5pc Night Silence to ignore movement speed while sneaking and 3pc Nightshade to reduce the detection radius.

yeah I run that with 4pc bahara curse i'd like to say for the trap benifit but it was actually because its thieves style and at the time i didnt know them all so crafted night silence whith the pages I knew and used baharas to fill the gaps

goatlyonesub17_ESO · March 2016

magnusthorek wrote: »

I was as mad as you before I realize how to sweeten out things.

- 5 pieces of Night Mother's Embrace, not to be mistaken with the craftable Night Mother's Gaze
- 3 pieces of Nightshade Set
- Medium armor for the remaining slots for the next tip
- Medium Armor passive Improved Sneak, not only will save you stamina but will make you a bit more harder to be detected. Wind Walker helps too...

I've been using Nightshade (3) and Night Mother's Embrace (5) since forever. My characters carry this as a change-of-clothes alt armor set in their inventories, for those special moments when sneak is more important than fight. My Khajiit's detection radius vs. a Belkarth guard looking straight at him is one meter. Sometimes they brush up against him on the right or left side without noticing him. Sometimes. My Breton character has the same equipment, but she's only a so-so sneak. The Khajiit/Bosmer stealth passive makes a world of difference.

greylox · March 2016

Too frustrating, I just run in and destroy everyone then do the boss at the end although they never drop any good loot.

Banana · March 2016

I suck to. But I don't like sneaky thieving stuff. I'd rather go through people than around them.

Nermy · March 2016

I have managed only one heist within the time limit. They are great but just a little bit frustrating.

I would rather no time limit and if you get spotted , you lose the bonus.

Still, I really enjoy them. They are a welcome change from delves where you run through and splatter everything in sight.

Though I remember sneaking through a lot of public dungeons on my NB to get all the skyshards.

Septimus_Magna · March 2016

greylox wrote: »

Too frustrating, I just run in and destroy everyone then do the boss at the end although they never drop any good loot.

Which is kinda funny because your signature says "prolific thief" xD

Ryluk · March 2016

DK full heavy here, no stealth buffs or abilities just pure crouching past. I've done all heists in bonus and I believe it's all based on spawns. The best stealth player could completely fail a bonus heist where the worst stealth player could complete it first time. It all depends on where the loot spawns. It is VERY annoying having to restart in hopes the better spawns happen, but I guess it's good I've learned the entire AI pathing in Deadhallow halls...right?