Bugged Spellpower

Lord-Otto · March 2016

Hello!
(^_^)

So, a guildie of mine, whose name shall not be told, claims he is reaching over 4k spellpower... With a staff!
I have specifically asked for active effects like the Templar buff or PvP buffs. Also for the gear. Nothing unusual. Standard setup, 5 Julianos, 1 Kena, 2 Torug, 3 Willpower. Apprentice mundus, though. Sorc and destro staff, with Power Surge up, he is closing in on 4.5k spellpower.
I take his words for genuine.

Does anyone know how you could reach such a number? To me it looks extremely bugged, I can't think of any way to get these numbers with a frikkin' staff. Checked resistances, doesn't seem to be the "stack all error". I only reach 4.5k with Clever Alchemist! And I just can't figure out what the cause of this anomaly could be...

Any ideas?
Thank you!

Septimus_Magna · March 2016

5x Julianos (299)
3x Willpower jewelry (186)
1x Maelstrom staff (189)
2x Molag Kena (129 + 516)
3x spell dmg enchants (3 x 174 = 522)

Total unbuffed: 1335+299+186+189+129+516+522=3176
Total buffed (major sorcery and 5x sorc skills): 3176 x 1,30 = 4129

Apprentice mundus with full divines:
166 x (1 + 0.075 x 7 ) = 253 (unbuffed)
This will make the total (3176+253) x 1,30 = 4458 spell dmg

Mush55 · March 2016

With correct enchants and self buffs with dual wield 4k thats with no kena buff, is he sure he wasn't spc buffed ???

Lord-Otto · March 2016

Thanks for the replies, guys!

No Maelstrom staff, no Kena Proc, no dual wield. It really is just a plain sustained dps setup...
=/

Lord-Otto · March 2016

I am reaching 3432 spellpower with the listed gear, buffed. Atronach mundus, but these 272 points from Apprentice surely don't bring you above 4k. And he is even closing in on 4.5k, which sounds absurd to me!
(o_O)

Septimus_Magna · March 2016

Lord-Otto wrote: »

I am reaching 3432 spellpower with the listed gear, buffed. Atronach mundus, but these 272 points from Apprentice surely don't bring you above 4k. And he is even closing in on 4.5k, which sounds absurd to me!
(o_O)

He would need a spell dmg buff of some sorts because 4.5k isnt something you reach easily.

Fully buffed with DW, Kena proc, SPC etc you can reach roughly 5k spell dmg on a sorc (without Apprentice mundus).

I think its pretty impossible to reach 500 less with a staff, no Kena proc and no SPC, even with Apprentice mundus.

LadyNalcarya · March 2016

Might be with Maestrom power sigil.
But no buffs is hard to believe. Btw realistically you wont slot all sorc abilities on your spammable bar, you need at least force pulse and magelight.

Lord-Otto · March 2016

Indeed. It just doesn't make sense. He claims he even had outstanding spellpower before IC release.
Initially, I expected a bug with the Apprentice, as he frequently uses Twice-Born Star, but even when he changes to Atro mundus, spellpower remains high. No double buff from a single mundus.
He was emp once... It would make sense if the emp buff to a spellpower was incorrectly never removed, but this would be the first time I've ever heard of such a bug.
I really can't figure it out.
(?_?)

LadyNalcarya · March 2016

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Indeed. It just doesn't make sense. He claims he even had outstanding spellpower before IC release.
Initially, I expected a bug with the Apprentice, as he frequently uses Twice-Born Star, but even when he changes to Atro mundus, spellpower remains high. No double buff from a single mundus.
He was emp once... It would make sense if the emp buff to a spellpower was incorrectly never removed, but this would be the first time I've ever heard of such a bug.
I really can't figure it out.
(?_?)

There was also a bug that caused inflated stat values. Not sure it its fixed, but that was just a UI bug.

Lord-Otto · March 2016

Hmhm. Can't really tell if it's an UI bug... We consoleros recently got the damage numbers. He claimed his highest heavy inferno staff hit was for almost 30k. I know Elemental Expert is maxed and there are a few points into Staff Expert. Is that a reasonable damage value?

Acsvf · March 2016

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Hmhm. Can't really tell if it's an UI bug... We consoleros recently got the damage numbers. He claimed his highest heavy inferno staff hit was for almost 30k. I know Elemental Expert is maxed and there are a few points into Staff Expert. Is that a reasonable damage value?

If the user was a DK then it's pretty reasonable.

Lord-Otto · March 2016

Oh! Good point!
(O_O)!
User is a sorc, I forgot to mention!

LadyNalcarya · March 2016

Well, tbh I would like to see screenshot or video.

Lord-Otto · March 2016

Can't provide one. That user doesn't use the game DVR, fear of alliance spies or something.
I get what you're concerned about, but I really can't imagine that person making it up. Would be atypical.

DjSolJAH · March 2016

Pretty sure I know who you're talking about and they are full of it. Just gotta say they are the best as those numbers have always been questionable.

Autolycus · March 2016

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Hello!
(^_^)

So, a guildie of mine, whose name shall not be told, claims he is reaching over 4k spellpower... With a staff!
I have specifically asked for active effects like the Templar buff or PvP buffs. Also for the gear. Nothing unusual. Standard setup, 5 Julianos, 1 Kena, 2 Torug, 3 Willpower. Apprentice mundus, though. Sorc and destro staff, with Power Surge up, he is closing in on 4.5k spellpower.
I take his words for genuine.

Does anyone know how you could reach such a number? To me it looks extremely bugged, I can't think of any way to get these numbers with a frikkin' staff. Checked resistances, doesn't seem to be the "stack all error". I only reach 4.5k with Clever Alchemist! And I just can't figure out what the cause of this anomaly could be...

Any ideas?
Thank you!

You listed it all already pretty much. Add in 3 jewelry pieces with SD enchants and it should be a lot higher than 4.5k. Sorcs have the potential to get up to 5k+ (which is proven to be unsustainable, for the record). My magblade sits comfortably at 4.1k self-buffed in the same gear, without the Apprentice, using 2 vMA destro staves.

Lord-Otto · March 2016

Yeah, but he wouldn't make it up, would he? Doesn't meet my impression of him.

Lord-Otto · March 2016

Autolycus wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Hello!
(^_^)

So, a guildie of mine, whose name shall not be told, claims he is reaching over 4k spellpower... With a staff!
I have specifically asked for active effects like the Templar buff or PvP buffs. Also for the gear. Nothing unusual. Standard setup, 5 Julianos, 1 Kena, 2 Torug, 3 Willpower. Apprentice mundus, though. Sorc and destro staff, with Power Surge up, he is closing in on 4.5k spellpower.
I take his words for genuine.

Does anyone know how you could reach such a number? To me it looks extremely bugged, I can't think of any way to get these numbers with a frikkin' staff. Checked resistances, doesn't seem to be the "stack all error". I only reach 4.5k with Clever Alchemist! And I just can't figure out what the cause of this anomaly could be...

Any ideas?
Thank you!

You listed it all already pretty much. Add in 3 jewelry pieces with SD enchants and it should be a lot higher than 4.5k. Sorcs have the potential to get up to 5k+ (which is proven to be unsustainable, for the record). My magblade sits comfortably at 4.1k self-buffed in the same gear, without the Apprentice, using 2 vMA destro staves.

I don't know, man. I am not pulling those numbers, and I sure have everything put into damage, aside from my lovely mundus.
=/

LadyNalcarya · March 2016

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Can't provide one. That user doesn't use the game DVR, fear of alliance spies or something.
I get what you're concerned about, but I really can't imagine that person making it up. Would be atypical.

I would like to know the way they reach these stats with these sets and no buffs except surge. Console version of the game is identical to PC stat-wise, but...
I equipped 5xgolden divine Julianos, 2 Torugs (also golden divine), 1 Kena(same), 3 Willpower(spell dmg arcane) on my sorc and took Apprentice mundus. That's what I got:

And with Surge:

And with Surge and all sorc abilities:

That's raw stats with no group/Cyro buffs.
So I'm sorry but it does sound weird that your guildie has 4,5k with this setup.
You can achieve very high spell dmg with assault/spell cure, full cyro buffs, etc, but since you say its just with surge...

Autolycus · March 2016

I don't have screenshots for you atm. But with a 3k base SD:

3,000 * 1.20 (major sorcery) = 3,600
Overload proc (kena) = ~600 SD
With no other buffs to SD this is approximately 4,200

In practice, Sorcs get a lot more by way of buffing their SD. Also, Kena is a lot higher when both pieces are legendary (something like 688 I think?) What I want to know is why bother using the Apprentice at this level of SD? You'd be better off with crit chance or crit damage, at least that's my speculation. I would run numbers and test it, of course.

Edit: I went back and re-read the OP. The individual in question is not using 2 kena, hence the Apprentice. It all makes sense, and seems fine imo.

Lord-Otto · March 2016

Yup. Your sorc meets my expectations, that's how mine would look with Apprentice, too. Yours looks legit and... kinda... beautiful...
(^~^)
What about Autolycus' Magblade? Is that because of the Maelstrom staff?

LadyNalcarya · March 2016

Autolycus wrote: »

I don't have screenshots for you atm. But with a 3k base SD:

3,000 * 1.20 (major sorcery) = 3,600
Overload proc (kena) = ~600 SD
With no other buffs to SD this is approximately 4,200

In practice, Sorcs get a lot more by way of buffing their SD. Also, Kena is a lot higher when both pieces are legendary (something like 688 I think?) What I want to know is why bother using the Apprentice at this level of SD? You'd be better off with crit chance or crit damage, at least that's my speculation. I would run numbers and test it, of course.

OP post says no double Kena. With Kena proc its easy of course.

Autolycus · March 2016

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

I don't have screenshots for you atm. But with a 3k base SD:

3,000 * 1.20 (major sorcery) = 3,600
Overload proc (kena) = ~600 SD
With no other buffs to SD this is approximately 4,200

In practice, Sorcs get a lot more by way of buffing their SD. Also, Kena is a lot higher when both pieces are legendary (something like 688 I think?) What I want to know is why bother using the Apprentice at this level of SD? You'd be better off with crit chance or crit damage, at least that's my speculation. I would run numbers and test it, of course.

OP post says no double Kena.

Yup, I noticed that after I posted and edited it.

Autolycus · March 2016

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Yup. Your sorc meets my expectations, that's how mine would look with Apprentice, too. Yours looks legit and... kinda... beautiful...
(^~^)
What about Autolycus' Magblade? Is that because of the Maelstrom staff?

That's part of it, yeah. I do run 2 kena though, so my active combat SD is much higher than standing. I also enchant all three jewelry for SD., but I don't use the Apprentice, rather I use the Shadow.

2 Kena (1 Infused, 1 Divines)
5 Julianos (2 Infused, 3 Divines)
3 Willpower (all SD enchants)
vMA destro (both bars)

In combat, I make sure Sorcery and Kena are active as close to 100% of the time as possible. I think my setup is fairly standard, though I tend to lean more towards Infused traits than most people, and I tend to take far less recovery than a lot of people seem to. My magicka recovery sits around 890 (the price of stacking SD, also the better option imo; recovery is a dump stat beyond a certain point).

Lord-Otto · March 2016

With the Maelstrom staff, you should have roughly 60 more points of spellpower. Judging from my own numbers, that would be like 3.5k with the mentioned gear setup, so I assume that 4.1k is with Kena proc active?
But my friend is not using two-piece Kena. With it, it would make perfect sense. But at the time, I specifically asked for the exact gear and buffs.

LadyNalcarya · March 2016

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Yup. Your sorc meets my expectations, that's how mine would look with Apprentice, too. Yours looks legit and... kinda... beautiful...
(^~^)
What about Autolycus' Magblade? Is that because of the Maelstrom staff?

Hehe

Well, for reference, this is with Maelstrom staff (crappy lightning one, but still), and Kena proc. That proc does make a difference.

Forgot to activate bound aegis here, but doesnt matter.
Its possible to buff even further of course

But that's not with 1Kena/Torugs hat and staff.

Autolycus · March 2016

Lord-Otto wrote: »

With the Maelstrom staff, you should have roughly 60 more points of spellpower. Judging from my own numbers, that would be like 3.5k with the mentioned gear setup, so I assume that 4.1k is with Kena proc active?
But my friend is not using two-piece Kena. With it, it would make perfect sense. But at the time, I specifically asked for the exact gear and buffs.

Yeah that's true, and I think the difference between you and me is pretty much just the kena proc alone. If I had tooltips in front of me this would be easier, but I think the legendary kena bonus is upper-600s.

If your friend is running Apprentice and all/mostly divines gear, I could see that difference as well (especially as a sorc, with all the SD bonuses for slotting sorc skills). I do something fairly similar on my stam sorc, whom I recently switched from 2h to DW, and his WD sits very comfortably at 5k+ with just self-buffs. Granted, WD is always higher than SD, but stacking it as a Sorc remains fairly easy.

DjSolJAH · March 2016

I hit around 4.2 with DW fully buffed in cyrodiil with battle buff if I have full spell damage jewelry on. He isn't hitting that number with that setup. Doesn't wear kena helm either so he's not getting that extra SD.

LadyNalcarya · March 2016

The difference is 189 spell damage, because you cant have Kena proc and Torugs 2pc bonus at the same time. So non-vMA staff doesnt get any set bonuses.

Lord-Otto · March 2016

Yeah, my Torug DW also reaches 4.2k... Alchemist setup even 4.5k for these 15 seconds.
That is my dilemma. I know his number make no sense at all, but I trust him, so I'm assuming it must be a rare bug.

LadyNalcarya · March 2016

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Yeah, my Torug DW also reaches 4.2k... Alchemist setup even 4.5k for these 15 seconds.
That is my dilemma. I know his number make no sense at all, but I trust him, so I'm assuming it must be a rare bug.

Well, in this case there might be several options:
1) UI bug
2) Unlimited Mundus exploit (dont know if it worked with same stone). This is fixed in yesterday's PC patch.

3) He's actually using another set of gear
4) This is not truth