Time to make small combat a REAL THING

HoloYoitsu · March 2016

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

zZzleepyhead wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

You are in luck OP. PVP arenas and battlegrounds are in active development.

so is colonizing Mars. Who wants to place some bets?

Well they did say finally they are coming for sure. They said they are developing them. I can only take them at their word.

I have never needed the LOL button as much as I do now.

PeggymoeXD · March 2016

MoeCoastie wrote: »

PeggymoeXD wrote: »

MoeCoastie wrote: »

Cyrodiil is awesome. So many different playstyles can exist within one area. To me, that's unique and should be valued. Adding arenas would just create a different game and this "meta" (as you guys like to call it) will be necessity rather than an option.

Keep PvP casual. Hardcore pvpers can go play BDO or WoW

You must be new.

been here longer than you. And Im experienced with this type of PvP even before ESO. It is exactly this type of PvP ive been searching years for.

I highly doubt you have been here longer than me. The only possible option is the exact same amount of time. Played since the first beta. Started as early access.

Cyrodiil is an enormous farm. The argument could be made it's an mmo, and the whole game is a farm. But when people don't care about individual skill so they can blob around with 30-40 other people and spam one thing, when players don't contribute further in battle besides keep defense (if they aren't standing on the inside soaking up AP) and sit around waiting on a defense tick, when a decent battle can take up to 30 minutes to find, and especially when siege hardly works the way it was intended to, something new needs to be implemented. Most people are tired of what Cyrodiil has ultimately become.

Being a player who spent thousands and thousands of hours pvp'ing, it's eventually what drove me from the game pretty much entirely. Being ignored for so long by devs, and just the overall mayhem and disorder that seemed to never even be addressed for the longest time. Cyrodiil is stale. Honestly even if arenas are put in, it could be too late for players who left because they were tired of waiting for something new. IC was an attempt, but it's more PvE than anything, and anyone actually wanting AP still blobs around above ground. It's funny you mentioned Black Desert, because that's where me and most of guild went. I still log in to ESO to get my hireling mats and do dailies, but I dry heave whenever I even think of wanting to try and force myself to enjoy Cyrodiil. I would love to get back into it like I once was, but it's going to take a serious overhaul when it comes to PvP, and I think I speak for a large portion of the OG ESO PVP community.

Randactyl · March 2016

"entire"
"went"

PeggymoeXD · March 2016

Randactyl wrote: »

"entire"
"went"

Well except for some stubborn turds. YOU'RE ON THE ROSTER!

DaveMoeDee · March 2016

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

zZzleepyhead wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

You are in luck OP. PVP arenas and battlegrounds are in active development.

so is colonizing Mars. Who wants to place some bets?

Well they did say finally they are coming for sure. They said they are developing them. I can only take them at their word.

Developing does not equal "coming for sure". They are definitely planned. That is the most we can say.

HoloYoitsu · March 2016

ZOS was 'working on' 'developing' Justice System PvP for a over a year, then they gave up.

ZOS was also 'working on' 'developing' the Spell Crafting System for over a year, now it's on permanent hiatus with no one working on it and 'no ETA'.

heystreethawk · March 2016

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

ZOS was 'working on' 'developing' Justice System PvP for a over a year, then they gave up.

ZOS was also 'working on' 'developing' the Spell Crafting System for over a year, now it's on permanent hiatus with no one working on it and 'no ETA'.

I feel like the absence of that second one is for the best, though; the potential balance/exploitability issues that, in this game, we'd pretty much have to expect are so colossal in scope that the gods themselves weep upon their consideration. There would probably only need to be one insanely broken thing -- everyone in Cyrodiil would have access to it, and so long as it didn't cause any mobs to respawn too quickly, that homebrewed zip zap would probably stay unchecked for a month at a minimum.

mcurley · March 2016

MoeCoastie wrote: »

bitaken wrote: »

I am surprised no one commented on the effect someplace like this would have on Cyrodil for the masses.

1) Reduce population in Cyrodil. Reduce Lag in Cyrodil.

2) Create a place for players to go when fewer are online - and instead of PvDooring a map one color - actually get fair and balanced PvP.

3) Places Cyrodil as a "Zerg Busting" locale.

4) Also let's the top 12 and 24 mans duke it out in a place to sack up and show who is the best - and create tactics for a different type of play style.

My theory:

It will completely drain Cyrodil of most of its population for 2 reasons.
1. Instant gratification. The entire purpose behind instanced PvP is to provide combat on demand. Set time, fewer objectives, smaller map, and less variables. IMO, this alone will kill Cyrodil.

2. Efficiency. Its the same dynamic as grinding vs questing. It will always be more efficient to grind for XP than it is to quest. For the same reason the masses flock to the most crowded campaign despite the lag is because of the AP/Hr and the progression that comes along with it.

I truly hope the introduction of arenas doesnt kill the niche appeal of Cyrodil because there arent many other options out there for me. Either way, I'll enjoy the ride while it lasts.

I've been seeing calls lately for a 3rd CP-enabled campaign to be opened up because of population caps and long queue times. Structured PvP could reduce the amount of people in Cyrodiil but I doubt the population will be "killed." Worst case they have to reduce the number campaigns to 1 non-CP and 1 CP.

You are right about Cyrodiil having a niche appeal... going to war for your alliance, sieging castles, ganking reinforcements, etc. are all tons of fun when time permits... but it does require a good chunk of time.

Having options for more expedient battles will likely attract more people to the game... who might then in turn even want to see what Cyrodiil is all about when they have the time... just another POV.

Dreyloch · March 2016

I would enjoy some other venue to do PvP. But with your suggestions come many many more questions, and how ZoS addresses them. How do you make the groups? How do you balance the formation of them(11 temps and a NB)? What if your a solo anti-social intra-vert that doesn't have a guild? How do you come up with a system that makes fair groups out of multitudes of solo players wanting to try it out? Then comes the cries for leaderboards, then comes the cries over ppl getting kicked because they don't have the right set-gear or spec set as a "norm" for their class...

I've seen ALL of this in different games. What are you supposed to do when your waiting on a group battle queue? (Because I know you Bitaken, and I know you don't PvE lol) Are you going to leave mid-battle in Cyrodiil to join a queue?

ZoS might be exploring these questions now, and decide one way or the other. The problem imo, is that it will be too far into the future when another new shiny MMO comes out and it will be drastically too late anyway. Along with the fact that ZoS will probably implement it totally wrong and just make it worse.

Many MANY players have suggested things for small scale. NONE of it has come to fruition because ZoS is simply afraid of working hard. Afraid of talking to the player base and making it right. Afraid that we're all going to leave anyway, so what's the point?

Sallington · March 2016

I don't know how anyone can argue that PvP is in a good place right now.

Randactyl · March 2016

lol

Anyway, to be on topic

mcurley wrote: »

I've been seeing calls lately for a 3rd CP-enabled campaign to be opened up because of population caps and long queue times. Structured PvP could reduce the amount of people in Cyrodiil but I doubt the population will be "killed." Worst case they have to reduce the number campaigns to 1 non-CP and 1 CP.

You are right about Cyrodiil having a niche appeal... going to war for your alliance, sieging castles, ganking reinforcements, etc. are all tons of fun when time permits... but it does require a good chunk of time.

Having options for more expedient battles will likely attract more people to the game... who might then in turn even want to see what Cyrodiil is all about when they have the time... just another POV.

This is probably one of the only level-headed replies I've seen regarding Cyrodiil and ESO PvP. Then again, I don't generally spend a lot of time here. Trying to cut back on my sodium intake.

I too think having a few arena games would compliment the Alliance War, not detract from it. Being able to do a quick 4v4 or 8v8 Capture the Scroll would be a great way to spend 15 minutes rather than burning those same 15 minutes trying to find a group and running all the way to Arrius because AD has capped everything in Azura's again and the few EP that are on decide to be recklessly ambitious; going up against triple or quadruple their numbers in a non-defensible position.

Mitharus · March 2016

Dreyloch wrote: »

What if your a solo anti-social intra-vert that doesn't have a guild?

Seriously? That describes me pretty well. I solo'd for ages and ended up running with some folks in a guild, which I ended up eventually joining. Doesn't mean I'm still not anti-social as all hell with them still... ( *wave* ) ... but I did surprisingly end up in one.

How do you come up with a system that makes fair groups out of multitudes of solo players wanting to try it out

Now days? Throw that out, isn't going to happen. "Group with team speak required" ... "Must have microphone" ... blah, blah blah...

Eventually, if the solo players *do* want to try it out, they'll form their own groups. Has happened before, will continue happening. Or they'll stay playing solo and learn what they need to run in the mess.

Then comes the cries for leaderboards, then comes the cries over ppl getting kicked because they don't have the right set-gear or spec set as a "norm" for their class...

Any place you have any sort of points give, you're going to get this. Doesn't matter. I'll plainly state I suck at PvP ... *nod nod* But that isn't the point. *I* don't care about being top on the leader board, if my skills/gear are "best" for the class, whatever... it's irrelevant and will change "next patch" when everything gets switched again for re-balancing.

For me, the entire point is just to enjoy some down time. Caring about who's on the top of the board, making sure you have the right skills/gear/so on so forth, blah... blah... just detracts from that.

Dreyloch · March 2016

Mitharus wrote: »

Dreyloch wrote: »

What if your a solo anti-social intra-vert that doesn't have a guild?

Seriously? That describes me pretty well. I solo'd for ages and ended up running with some folks in a guild, which I ended up eventually joining. Doesn't mean I'm still not anti-social as all hell with them still... ( *wave* ) ... but I did surprisingly end up in one.

How do you come up with a system that makes fair groups out of multitudes of solo players wanting to try it out

Now days? Throw that out, isn't going to happen. "Group with team speak required" ... "Must have microphone" ... blah, blah blah...

Eventually, if the solo players *do* want to try it out, they'll form their own groups. Has happened before, will continue happening. Or they'll stay playing solo and learn what they need to run in the mess.

Then comes the cries for leaderboards, then comes the cries over ppl getting kicked because they don't have the right set-gear or spec set as a "norm" for their class...

Any place you have any sort of points give, you're going to get this. Doesn't matter. I'll plainly state I suck at PvP ... *nod nod* But that isn't the point. *I* don't care about being top on the leader board, if my skills/gear are "best" for the class, whatever... it's irrelevant and will change "next patch" when everything gets switched again for re-balancing.

For me, the entire point is just to enjoy some down time. Caring about who's on the top of the board, making sure you have the right skills/gear/so on so forth, blah... blah... just detracts from that.

While YOU may not care.. eventually people will want to play with others "on their level". So ZoS puts in leader boards or some other kind of mechanic to group players based on some dynamic. Regardless of what that is (gear level, rank level, leaderboard level) it doesn't matter.

Some elitist jerks out there will find a way to make little johnny feel bad and kick him from group. He'll cry on the forums on how unfair it is. This could even be new players to the game. Would you want to do a 4 man with 3 geared up VR16's and a VR15 that has a mish-mash of green and blue PVE gear that doesn't even equate to a set and dying the whole time? While that isn't going to happen on a consistent basis, with RNG you could run into 10 groups in a row like that. You could get stuck with some guy that just sits there contributing nothing to the match pretty much afk cause he thinks your group isn't good enough for him.

If you've played PvP for long enough and tried it through a couple of other games, it pretty much ends up this way. Every...damn...time. You say it'll only be groups? What happens when there aren't enough groups to make matches at some odd hour? People will cry for ways to make queues as instant as possible. Hence RNG match making that has no idea what it's putting together.

All I'm saying is that ZoS will have no clue how to make it happen with something...even....remotely...resembling....balance.

Mitharus · March 2016

Dreyloch wrote: »

All I'm saying is that ZoS will have no clue how to make it happen with something...even....remotely...resembling....balance.

Agree with that. But I'd take it further and say it would be impossible. Unless the people were making the groups themselves, then you are going to have a randomness that can't be helped.

Even if all the characters were decked out in just wonderful gear, one or more player may not have the physical ability to do what is needed, even with the help of the gear. Sure, they may last longer... but, you can not group based on gear only. So, that throws the automated grouping out if you want control over anything like that.

that just sits there contributing nothing to the match

Well, if there is a way for automated matching, then they should have a way to kick out a user (all other users in group agree, etc...). You're going to be down a player, but if something like that happens, there should be some counter to it (small point/time bonus, etc..). I can see that being abused, but hopefully the gains of completion with that full group would outweigh the small point bonus from being a player down. Guess it depends on what you care more about.

Randactyl · March 2016

Mitharus wrote: »

Dreyloch wrote: »

that just sits there contributing nothing to the match

Well, if there is a way for automated matching, then they should have a way to kick out a user (all other users in group agree, etc...). You're going to be down a player, but if something like that happens, there should be some counter to it (small point/time bonus, etc..). I can see that being abused, but hopefully the gains of completion with that full group would outweigh the small point bonus from being a player down. Guess it depends on what you care more about.

This seems to be one of the only arguments against battlegrounds other than "they'll destroy Cyrodiil." It's funny, because this particular problem has been puzzled over and has had numerous solutions put forth in actual arena multiplayer games ever since matchmaking services were deployed at large.

You have ranked and unranked battlegrounds. Unraked has join-in-progress, ranked has leaderboards. Both have idle kick timers. A solo player would probably have more fun in an unranked battleground or could choose to try their luck in a ranked one. Pre-made teams that queue for a ranked battleground would have a natural, unsurprising potential advantage - even if they don't have the best gear. (For these points, I submit Halo 5's playlist system.)
Also, for what it's worth, this probably would have been the best way to draw in and transition the typical console and/or PC arena game players. (For that point, I submit Elite: Dangerous - Arena.)

P.S. Hey, Mith! lol

KenaPKK · March 2016

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

..sorry for going off topic, what is a ballarina? O.o in eso I mean ...

Spin to wiiiin!