Volkodav wrote: »

Why do you refer to us non PvPers as " PVE/RP/casuals"?
I still dont get it.Can you tell me what you consider "casual players"?

Casual = anyone who plays differently than OP's One True Path Of Correct Gaming.

In other words, the term has lost all meaning. I've been called casual by people who weren't born when I started gaming.

It used to mean people who played Angry Birds on their phone, or other simple, pick up and put down games that filled idle time. Calling anyone who commits to ESO enough to reach vet levels even if they're just interested in PvE is just silly.

Appleblade wrote: »

RebornV3x wrote: »

It's seems like a lot of people should find new games to play or take a break from TESO this game has problems sometimes you just gotta take a break.

It's a good idea in general. I went off and played the heck out of FO4, then came back and started a Nightblade who is currently at V4 to play Wrothgar and Thieves. It all felt fresh again. Will go do FO4 again after the updated Survival mode and first wave of DLC drops.

First wave of DLC has already dropped. Making robots is fun

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Appleblade wrote: »

RebornV3x wrote: »

It's seems like a lot of people should find new games to play or take a break from TESO this game has problems sometimes you just gotta take a break.

It's a good idea in general. I went off and played the heck out of FO4, then came back and started a Nightblade who is currently at V4 to play Wrothgar and Thieves. It all felt fresh again. Will go do FO4 again after the updated Survival mode and first wave of DLC drops.

First wave of DLC has already dropped. Making robots is fun

I know. Tempting, but I'm holding out for the updated survival. Will start a new carefully SPECIALed survival character. Also want Wasteland Workshop in place because I love settlement building.

Obligatory ESO: I sometimes try to turn on my PipBoy light in a dark delve or dungeon.

I'm liking the direction the UK took in regards to broken games and Consumer Rights with the law stating that if a release or online gaming service is down or broken in any way the consumer has a right to request a full refund.

More consumer rights acts need to be put into place internationally. It should be against the law to attempt to sell low quality releases. Period. Gaming is arguably one of the only sectors of retail that allows and even accepts that 80% of their products are in some way broken with it's consumer base predominately consisting of people who also accept the fact before buying (well perhaps other than the used car market, but if a broken car is a lemon then what's a broken game called?).

All game developers have their rocky patches and faulty releases. But why is ZoS so harshly targeted compared to other developers?? Because ZoS has an image problem and because they are terrible at communicating with their community. The rare events where they do communicate with us is during those unholy ESO live shows where they evade or ignore the important topics or blatantly shut us down. Then we come to the forums and the biggest word you'll hear from ZoS staff is the moderators. Go have a look at the dev discussion tab in these forums and look at all the threads they've opened and then never replied to. Half the job done and half the effort put in. That's the ZoS way.

I've watched them snidely delete comments that in no way violated Code of Conduct. It's us versus them. It's been that way for a long time. They need to look at devs like DE (creators of Warframe).. The Dev streams are bright, welcoming, professional and they even play their own game on a different platform once a week with random fans of the game. However Warframe is a pretty broken game, but their fans are very forgiving because we actually like their devs. Judging by the plethora of memes made by the dumb things ZoS devs say during streams, I'm not sure a majority of ESO fans could say the same.

I rather like the game as it is, I welcome fixes and patches. Like many have said, they're resolving the issues whilst trying to keep new content coming, we as consumers are important to them but so is getting paid (Business is Business) the issues will be solved, give it time.

1: get better internet
2: or get ps4.....not much lag for me (but crashes/freezes daily)

mistermutiny89 wrote: »

I'm liking the direction the UK took in regards to broken games and Consumer Rights with the law stating that if a release or online gaming service is down or broken in any way the consumer has a right to request a full refund.

More consumer rights acts need to be put into place internationally. It should be against the law to attempt to sell low quality releases. Period. Gaming is arguably one of the only sectors of retail that allows and even accepts that 80% of their products are in some way broken with it's consumer base predominately consisting of people who also accept the fact before buying (well perhaps other than the used car market, but if a broken car is a lemon then what's a broken game called?).

All game developers have their rocky patches and faulty releases. But why is ZoS so harshly targeted compared to other developers?? Because ZoS has an image problem and because they are terrible at communicating with their community. The rare events where they do communicate with us is during those unholy ESO live shows where they evade or ignore the important topics or blatantly shut us down. Then we come to the forums and the biggest word you'll hear from ZoS staff is the moderators. Go have a look at the dev discussion tab in these forums and look at all the threads they've opened and then never replied to. Half the job done and half the effort put in. That's the ZoS way.

I've watched them snidely delete comments that in no way violated Code of Conduct. It's us versus them. It's been that way for a long time. They need to look at devs like DE (creators of Warframe).. The Dev streams are bright, welcoming, professional and they even play their own game on a different platform once a week with random fans of the game. However Warframe is a pretty broken game, but their fans are very forgiving because we actually like their devs. Judging by the plethora of memes made by the dumb things ZoS devs say during streams, I'm not sure a majority of ESO fans could say the same.

^^^This. I can't agree more with why one developer is beloved by the community and another is hated. Better still is that one gives updates and timelines and if there are any delays they are forthcoming that they could not get content into a patch, or that a previously announced feature has been changed. At once point a talked about feature was delayed for over a year (focus system) but DE never once dodged a question about it, they candidly explained that it was not what they wanted and it was a low priority but they were still trying to find a way to make it work with the current game (and eventually they did!). ZOS could learn a lot from Digital Extremes if they actually wanted to improve their communication. If only all developers were as professional and forthcoming as DE.

Reevster wrote: »

Pretty much normal for on line MMos. Been playing for 15 years plus and have seen it all, if these kind of things bother you , then you should stick with single player games in your PS/ Xbox etc, they wont lag.

or on line games like farmville etc.

I don't think they can fix every issue for every player, its just not going to happen.

Agreed. Although, I think they try but are caught up in an unending demand for this or that on top of which they are now choosing which promises to break and when.

If many people are only in PvP areas to get certain items or skills, and would rather not be there, perhaps ZOS should consider not "forcing" PvP to get them. Then those who don't want to be there will not, reducing the number of people in those zones. And by "forcing" I mean that you either get the items and skill or you don't. By allow people to get the items and skills without going to PvP, many things change. People who hate it won't be pissed off all the time because they feel lied to and tricked out of their time and money. People who want to be there, will enjoy it much more playing with people who genuinely love PvP. And, of course stress on the PvP areas will reduce by the number of people who happily stop going to that area.

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Does Cyrodiil have perfomance issues. Sure. I experienced some when I played this week, though it was improved from 2 months ago

Incorrect. Cyrodiil has gotten steadily WORSE over time. You would know this if you pvp'd more often. Cyrodiil is HORRIBLE. Someone who sees pvp as a "minor activity" has no clue what cyrodiil is really like and probably can't truly attest to the quality of pvp the way someone who pvp's constantly can. And sure, you have no complaints about ZOS, as a pve'er you're the kind of player they aim to please with every dlc, while pvp'ers are sitting there while our experience with the game continues to suffer and therefore diminishing our enjoyment of the game, and you pve'ers can just continuously run around doing one of your plethora of quests that ZOS throws at you with every DLC.

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

mistermutiny89 wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Id like to see where the EU law says if a game service is down at all they must refund everyone's money.

Perhaps my wording was too generalized... Was trying to keep my reply short but here we go.

http://metro.co.uk/2015/10/01/new-law-means-30-day-refund-for-broken-video-games-5415914/

It says this:

‘of satisfactory quality, based on what a reasonable person would expect, taking into account the price’.

A reasonable person would know that the internet is a fickle thing and there could be downtime for an online service. The key here is a reasonable person. Reasonable people see the game works. It hardly says if there is a single bug or any downtime then they must refund money.

Im curious has any game company actually been forced to refund money under this?

It's yet to be pressed, this would be set under Case Law in the UK, the first one to be brought into question would set the precedent for anyone else, I think in terms of downtime and bugs on console at least this would score the lowest and they would lose and probably set the bench mark as in terms of acceptable service. it wouldn't be hard to prove either, but most cases like this the firm get's a letter on their directors desk and they settle anyway and brush it under the carpet.

I think any court would side with ZOS on this game. There is very little downtime. While yes there are bugs you can login and play the game 99.9% of the time. I dont think a reasonable person would ask for much more considering the price.

mistermutiny89 wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

mistermutiny89 wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Id like to see where the EU law says if a game service is down at all they must refund everyone's money.

Perhaps my wording was too generalized... Was trying to keep my reply short but here we go.

http://metro.co.uk/2015/10/01/new-law-means-30-day-refund-for-broken-video-games-5415914/

It says this:

‘of satisfactory quality, based on what a reasonable person would expect, taking into account the price’.

A reasonable person would know that the internet is a fickle thing and there could be downtime for an online service. The key here is a reasonable person. Reasonable people see the game works. It hardly says if there is a single bug or any downtime then they must refund money.

Im curious has any game company actually been forced to refund money under this?

I'd love to let you borrow my Xbox and play the game and trying to do writs in Wrothgar or play pvp in Cyrodiil for a good few months and we'll see how reasonable you feel about the quality of the game then.

Anyway, as I said, this is the direction we need to head towards...not that exact law but perhaps one that minimizes the quantity of poor quality releases that flood the market today. More consumer rights when it comes to purchasing broken content will only better the gaming community and set a higher standard.

That is not the whole game tho. Its only part of the game. I think you have a very hard time arguing the game does not work when you have 8 VR characters...

Krist wrote: »

**snip**

Also, there are cheats that people run that cause lag. I have been around 2 players that it did not matter what was going on, as soon as they came near the lag started. Even if they were hidden you knew they were near. I was told that they were cheats, but I cannot say personally that I know for sure, seems right considering.

This happens to me in PvE areas. Some players comes near me and my game lags to the point I think I'm about to disconnect. When that player goes away, so does the issue.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

mistermutiny89 wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Id like to see where the EU law says if a game service is down at all they must refund everyone's money.

Perhaps my wording was too generalized... Was trying to keep my reply short but here we go.

http://metro.co.uk/2015/10/01/new-law-means-30-day-refund-for-broken-video-games-5415914/

It says this:

‘of satisfactory quality, based on what a reasonable person would expect, taking into account the price’.

A reasonable person would know that the internet is a fickle thing and there could be downtime for an online service. The key here is a reasonable person. Reasonable people see the game works. It hardly says if there is a single bug or any downtime then they must refund money.

Im curious has any game company actually been forced to refund money under this?

It's yet to be pressed, this would be set under Case Law in the UK, the first one to be brought into question would set the precedent for anyone else, I think in terms of downtime and bugs on console at least this would score the lowest and they would lose and probably set the bench mark as in terms of acceptable service. it wouldn't be hard to prove either, but most cases like this the firm get's a letter on their directors desk and they settle anyway and brush it under the carpet.

I think any court would side with ZOS on this game. There is very little downtime. While yes there are bugs you can login and play the game 99.9% of the time. I dont think a reasonable person would ask for much more considering the price.

No they wouldn't. Even car manufacturers can't get away with selling crap these days. Fact is the game doesn't play or function like any of us expect. Including you. Does any other popular game crash or lag like this? Does any other game have a CONSTANT fps issue? Do any others dashboard you as many times as this? This is a very small list of issues we face daily irrelevant of the amount of people logging on. It could easily be proven just by displaying this game side by side any other game on XB. Plus if it went public than an Xbox game is this bad and going to court then I'd assume MS would chuck some serious grief at ZOS. Makes no difference if just one platform or not. Fact is right now XB is pissed and zos are silent are the matter.

@jamesharv2005ub17_ESO said "I believe the people who claim to have 999+ latency have bigger issues than anything ESO can fix."

You are right about that. People often forget their own internet provider might have issues, your own video card may need replaced, or your computer might be getting too hot. I've had all these issues. I still need to replace my video card. But, getting a larger power supply helped a great deal.

I'm not a programmer of any kind. But I do know that if I have problems, every one of them can be traced back to my own computer. The only issue I have now is rendering after I use the way shrines.