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IT'S NOT SOBER TO DEFEND THE STUDIO ANYMORE

  • Forestd16b14_ESO
    Forestd16b14_ESO
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    OK you know what does any one who has been posting these rage post even know the basics of game programming ? Any of you rage posters know how much time and effort goes into programming a game ? Do any of you rage posters spend 4-6 years in college to earn a degree in game programming, art, and or audio ? If not then with all due respect you have no right to tell ZOS to "hurry up" or "fix the game" and making all these stupid rage post.

    If any one does have any experience with game design and or programming then you should know the hassle of programming like the players who make the awesome fan art should know it takes awhile to make the art.
  • TheValkyn
    TheValkyn
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    TheValkyn wrote: »
    TheValkyn wrote: »
    TheValkyn wrote: »
    ZOS just showed their metrics and the majority of people average 100ms ping across the entire game. Their metrics include cyrodill too btw.

    There's a reason why they didn't show Cyrodiil by itself. Combining the data was a way of sweeping it under the rug.

    I was responding to people who claim everyone has massive lag no matter where they are in the game. Seems like tho if everyone had 1000+ ms latency in cyrodill those numbers would be higher.

    Well, 1000+ latency is a sign of straight up server failure. That's not going to be the average and if it were ZOS should really hire some new engineers. Below 100ms on the mainland US is acceptable and we have seen it in ESO in the past. I want to say that I had around 40-60 near launch.

    Also, they didn't mention if they threw out the outliers in the data. It's common for metrics to be skewed to favor a point of view. Everything that Zenimax says and does is damage control from what I've seen. If they put as much effort into fixing the problems that occur rather than sweeping them under the rug or trying to bury them we wouldn't be in this predicament.

    I believe the people who claim to have 999+ latency have bigger issues than anything ESO can fix.

    999+ latency in Cyrodiil is server failure. Zenimax can most definitely find the source of the problem and communicate to the community what is happening. We are customers after all. Remember that.

    This is not user error.

    Sometimes I wonder about that.

    Care to elaborate, @FLuFFyxMuFFiN ?
  • FLuFFyxMuFFiN
    FLuFFyxMuFFiN
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    TheValkyn wrote: »
    TheValkyn wrote: »
    TheValkyn wrote: »
    TheValkyn wrote: »
    ZOS just showed their metrics and the majority of people average 100ms ping across the entire game. Their metrics include cyrodill too btw.

    There's a reason why they didn't show Cyrodiil by itself. Combining the data was a way of sweeping it under the rug.

    I was responding to people who claim everyone has massive lag no matter where they are in the game. Seems like tho if everyone had 1000+ ms latency in cyrodill those numbers would be higher.

    Well, 1000+ latency is a sign of straight up server failure. That's not going to be the average and if it were ZOS should really hire some new engineers. Below 100ms on the mainland US is acceptable and we have seen it in ESO in the past. I want to say that I had around 40-60 near launch.

    Also, they didn't mention if they threw out the outliers in the data. It's common for metrics to be skewed to favor a point of view. Everything that Zenimax says and does is damage control from what I've seen. If they put as much effort into fixing the problems that occur rather than sweeping them under the rug or trying to bury them we wouldn't be in this predicament.

    I believe the people who claim to have 999+ latency have bigger issues than anything ESO can fix.

    999+ latency in Cyrodiil is server failure. Zenimax can most definitely find the source of the problem and communicate to the community what is happening. We are customers after all. Remember that.

    This is not user error.

    Sometimes I wonder about that.

    Care to elaborate, @FLuFFyxMuFFiN ?

    Elaborate on what exactly? I just wonder if we can truly rule out user error on some of these issues. Especially when I see a lot of people saying that they have little to no issues at all. Including me.
  • TheValkyn
    TheValkyn
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    TheValkyn wrote: »
    TheValkyn wrote: »
    TheValkyn wrote: »
    TheValkyn wrote: »
    ZOS just showed their metrics and the majority of people average 100ms ping across the entire game. Their metrics include cyrodill too btw.

    There's a reason why they didn't show Cyrodiil by itself. Combining the data was a way of sweeping it under the rug.

    I was responding to people who claim everyone has massive lag no matter where they are in the game. Seems like tho if everyone had 1000+ ms latency in cyrodill those numbers would be higher.

    Well, 1000+ latency is a sign of straight up server failure. That's not going to be the average and if it were ZOS should really hire some new engineers. Below 100ms on the mainland US is acceptable and we have seen it in ESO in the past. I want to say that I had around 40-60 near launch.

    Also, they didn't mention if they threw out the outliers in the data. It's common for metrics to be skewed to favor a point of view. Everything that Zenimax says and does is damage control from what I've seen. If they put as much effort into fixing the problems that occur rather than sweeping them under the rug or trying to bury them we wouldn't be in this predicament.

    I believe the people who claim to have 999+ latency have bigger issues than anything ESO can fix.

    999+ latency in Cyrodiil is server failure. Zenimax can most definitely find the source of the problem and communicate to the community what is happening. We are customers after all. Remember that.

    This is not user error.

    Sometimes I wonder about that.

    Care to elaborate, @FLuFFyxMuFFiN ?

    Elaborate on what exactly? I just wonder if we can truly rule out user error on some of these issues. Especially when I see a lot of people saying that they have little to no issues at all. Including me.

    So you have zero issues in Cyrodiil and your ping sits at around 40-60ms?
  • TheValkyn
    TheValkyn
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    OK you know what does any one who has been posting these rage post even know the basics of game programming ? Any of you rage posters know how much time and effort goes into programming a game ? Do any of you rage posters spend 4-6 years in college to earn a degree in game programming, art, and or audio ? If not then with all due respect you have no right to tell ZOS to "hurry up" or "fix the game" and making all these stupid rage post.

    If any one does have any experience with game design and or programming then you should know the hassle of programming like the players who make the awesome fan art should know it takes awhile to make the art.

    If they are paying money and the product is falling short of expectations and commitments created by Zenimax Online Studios then they are absolutely entitled to making a complaint. Just because it's a video game does not mean that the basic principles of commerce go out the window. They are not immune to criticism and in this case it's most deserved. A game that has struggled with serious FPS drops and latency for 12+ months deserves every customer complaint it receives.
  • Mysteri0n
    Mysteri0n
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    I have played beta and early access it played better then 2 years ago than it does now, Zos we wouldn't post offensive stuff if you fix your game, this literally feels like a game that is in pre alpha
    Lore Council Conclave of Shadows, Trade Council in Knights Arcanum
    Officer Celestials of Nirn, Proud Member of Enders Jeesh .Stam Sorc Since Beta 2014
    #ARGONIANMASTERRACE
  • GreenGhostMan
    GreenGhostMan
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    ADarklore wrote: »
    I love all the over the top exaggerations and drama that people just love to bring to the forums- with these people everything is like 'the sky is falling' commentaries.

    So ZOS has "promised" to fix problems for two years?!? MMO devs always work to fix problems, but since we are not privy to what is going on behind the scenes and most of us are not gaming programmers, we have absolutely no idea how complex or detailed these 'problems' entail especially with a game so massive as ESO. Also, let's be realistic, for the first few months after PC launch, ZOS was working on fixing problems with the game, after that they had to devote the majority of their developer's time working to completely redo the console version for launch. Since console launch last year, they've been working both on future content, balances AND fixes... but since ZOS doesn't have a massive development team anymore, miracles cannot happen overnight. So no, they haven't been working on fixes for two years, in fact, I'd wager they hadn't really even started until after console launch, which is when more devs were freed up to help in other areas. But let's further be realistic and say that 'promises' made when the game was launched should be balanced with the reality that sometimes what you WANT to do, does not turn out to be what you CAN do... and it wouldn't surprise me if either the game engine or developer talent don't have what it takes to turn those 'promises' into reality. Which is why players should either learn to be realistic or simply walk away, instead of expecting that ESO will become the game they were/are expecting. Accept it for what it is, feel free to mention game-breaking bugs, but stop complaining when your expectations don't match the reality of what the game can realistically offer.

    Also, as far as many of the issues other players have been having... I have not had any problems with the game since TG launched and I play several times a week for at least eight to ten hours each day I play, but of course I only do PvE questing... which in that regard things have been just fine.

    Thank you for posting this. I, as well, have experienced zero lag in PVE since TG launch.
    Alozar [] AD [] vet7 High Elf Templar
    Dronus Agni [] AD [] 9 Redguard DK
    Vaden Luxor [] AD [] 4 Redguard Templar
  • smacx250
    smacx250
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    Maybe you just need to have a couple of beers to enjoy the game...

    (Legal disclaimer: Always drink responsibly. Don't operate heavy machinery - especially siege. Resist the urge to continue to try and join TS if after multiple attempts you find you can't type in the URL properly.)
  • jamesharv2005ub17_ESO
    jamesharv2005ub17_ESO
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    smacx250 wrote: »
    Maybe you just need to have a couple of beers to enjoy the game...

    (Legal disclaimer: Always drink responsibly. Don't operate heavy machinery - especially siege. Resist the urge to continue to try and join TS if after multiple attempts you find you can't type in the URL properly.)

    Ive learned also its better not to use the forums intoxicated.
  • JadeNaria
    JadeNaria
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    OK you know what does any one who has been posting these rage post even know the basics of game programming ? Any of you rage posters know how much time and effort goes into programming a game ? Do any of you rage posters spend 4-6 years in college to earn a degree in game programming, art, and or audio ? If not then with all due respect you have no right to tell ZOS to "hurry up" or "fix the game" and making all these stupid rage post.

    If any one does have any experience with game design and or programming then you should know the hassle of programming like the players who make the awesome fan art should know it takes awhile to make the art.

    I read no rage in the post the OP made....so ok.
    Trueflame or Haderus NA PC AD
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    Resilient PVP Guild - Member


    SAVE ESO PVP, WE MATTER.
    #FIXPVP

  • Zyle
    Zyle
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    TheValkyn wrote: »
    TheValkyn wrote: »
    TheValkyn wrote: »
    ZOS just showed their metrics and the majority of people average 100ms ping across the entire game. Their metrics include cyrodill too btw.

    There's a reason why they didn't show Cyrodiil by itself. Combining the data was a way of sweeping it under the rug.

    I was responding to people who claim everyone has massive lag no matter where they are in the game. Seems like tho if everyone had 1000+ ms latency in cyrodill those numbers would be higher.

    Well, 1000+ latency is a sign of straight up server failure. That's not going to be the average and if it were ZOS should really hire some new engineers. Below 100ms on the mainland US is acceptable and we have seen it in ESO in the past. I want to say that I had around 40-60 near launch.

    Also, they didn't mention if they threw out the outliers in the data. It's common for metrics to be skewed to favor a point of view. Everything that Zenimax says and does is damage control from what I've seen. If they put as much effort into fixing the problems that occur rather than sweeping them under the rug or trying to bury them we wouldn't be in this predicament.

    I believe the people who claim to have 999+ latency have bigger issues than anything ESO can fix.

    999+ latency in Cyrodiil is server failure. Zenimax can most definitely find the source of the problem and communicate to the community what is happening. We are customers after all. Remember that.

    This is not user error.

    Sometimes I wonder about that.

    How? Go play in prime time Trueflame and get back to me on that.

    676 CP
    Zyle - LVL50 Stamina Nightblade - Former Emp AS - VMA Clear (Flawless)
    Joven - LVL50 Hybrid Templar
    Adion - LVL50 Stamina DK
    Radac - LVL50 Magicka Sorcerer
    Vanikath - LVL50 Magicka DK
  • DaveMoeDee
    DaveMoeDee
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    TheValkyn wrote: »
    ZOS just showed their metrics and the majority of people average 100ms ping across the entire game. Their metrics include cyrodill too btw.

    When the game launched I was frustrated because it would jump up to 100'ish. Now it's just infuriating to sit at a ping of 200-4k+. They should employ fewer community managers and moderators to hire a few good network engineers. The community managers have little to no contribution to making a good game. Is Gina awesome? Sure! But good engineers, writers, artists and designers with an ounce of vision are better which is exactly what this game needs.

    I have nothing against anyone on the community staff in particular but if it were my decision and a choice had to be made I would definitely without a shadow of a doubt understaff a "community" team to hire engineers. Most games have non-paid moderators so they can focus resources on making the game better.

    Then we will see even more people complaining about a lack of answers from ZOS in forums.
  • FLuFFyxMuFFiN
    FLuFFyxMuFFiN
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    TheValkyn wrote: »
    TheValkyn wrote: »
    TheValkyn wrote: »
    TheValkyn wrote: »
    TheValkyn wrote: »
    ZOS just showed their metrics and the majority of people average 100ms ping across the entire game. Their metrics include cyrodill too btw.

    There's a reason why they didn't show Cyrodiil by itself. Combining the data was a way of sweeping it under the rug.

    I was responding to people who claim everyone has massive lag no matter where they are in the game. Seems like tho if everyone had 1000+ ms latency in cyrodill those numbers would be higher.

    Well, 1000+ latency is a sign of straight up server failure. That's not going to be the average and if it were ZOS should really hire some new engineers. Below 100ms on the mainland US is acceptable and we have seen it in ESO in the past. I want to say that I had around 40-60 near launch.

    Also, they didn't mention if they threw out the outliers in the data. It's common for metrics to be skewed to favor a point of view. Everything that Zenimax says and does is damage control from what I've seen. If they put as much effort into fixing the problems that occur rather than sweeping them under the rug or trying to bury them we wouldn't be in this predicament.

    I believe the people who claim to have 999+ latency have bigger issues than anything ESO can fix.

    999+ latency in Cyrodiil is server failure. Zenimax can most definitely find the source of the problem and communicate to the community what is happening. We are customers after all. Remember that.

    This is not user error.

    Sometimes I wonder about that.

    Care to elaborate, @FLuFFyxMuFFiN ?

    Elaborate on what exactly? I just wonder if we can truly rule out user error on some of these issues. Especially when I see a lot of people saying that they have little to no issues at all. Including me.

    So you have zero issues in Cyrodiil and your ping sits at around 40-60ms?

    Never said that. But when I do go to Cyrodiil I don't have nearly as many problems that all these people claim to have. I still don't crash and the lag I experience is still nothing compared to what the people claim it is.
  • jamesharv2005ub17_ESO
    jamesharv2005ub17_ESO
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    I think asking for 40-60ms latency is being a little crazy. 100ms is fine you dont need 40ms ping times.
  • TheValkyn
    TheValkyn
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    DaveMoeDee wrote: »
    TheValkyn wrote: »
    ZOS just showed their metrics and the majority of people average 100ms ping across the entire game. Their metrics include cyrodill too btw.

    When the game launched I was frustrated because it would jump up to 100'ish. Now it's just infuriating to sit at a ping of 200-4k+. They should employ fewer community managers and moderators to hire a few good network engineers. The community managers have little to no contribution to making a good game. Is Gina awesome? Sure! But good engineers, writers, artists and designers with an ounce of vision are better which is exactly what this game needs.

    I have nothing against anyone on the community staff in particular but if it were my decision and a choice had to be made I would definitely without a shadow of a doubt understaff a "community" team to hire engineers. Most games have non-paid moderators so they can focus resources on making the game better.

    Then we will see even more people complaining about a lack of answers from ZOS in forums.

    Would you rather have someone listen to the valid complaints and be the liaison or utilize those resources on someone that can actually contribute to fixing them?
  • TheValkyn
    TheValkyn
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    I think asking for 40-60ms latency is being a little crazy. 100ms is fine you dont need 40ms ping times.

    40-60ms was what I had during launch. It's not crazy at all if there's a precedent.
  • jamesharv2005ub17_ESO
    jamesharv2005ub17_ESO
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    TheValkyn wrote: »
    I think asking for 40-60ms latency is being a little crazy. 100ms is fine you dont need 40ms ping times.

    40-60ms was what I had during launch. It's not crazy at all if there's a precedent.

    They changed how the client works tho to combat cheating. Part of that took a lot of the load off the client and put it on the server side. Price you pay tho to combat cheating. I would bet if I had you play this game at 60ms and 100ms you couldnt tell me which was which without some kind of latency meter. The gameplay is exactly the same.
  • TheValkyn
    TheValkyn
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    TheValkyn wrote: »
    I think asking for 40-60ms latency is being a little crazy. 100ms is fine you dont need 40ms ping times.

    40-60ms was what I had during launch. It's not crazy at all if there's a precedent.

    They changed how the client works tho to combat cheating. Part of that took a lot of the load off the client and put it on the server side. Price you pay tho to combat cheating. I would bet if I had you play this game at 60ms and 100ms you couldnt tell me which was which without some kind of latency meter. The gameplay is exactly the same.

    I'm curious about how much time you spend in Cyrodiil on average per week? What time of day do you play? What's your overall experience on a scale of 1-10? 1 being the worst and 10 being the best experience. While in Cyrodiil what sort of activities do you participate in?


    Edited by TheValkyn on March 29, 2016 12:42AM
  • AmakarGranaen
    AmakarGranaen
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    IMPORTANT INFORMATION!

    People are currently having lag and crashes in PvE on PS4 at least.

    qLiMgNx.gif
    Cthulhu is coming, look busy
  • jamesharv2005ub17_ESO
    jamesharv2005ub17_ESO
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    TheValkyn wrote: »
    TheValkyn wrote: »
    I think asking for 40-60ms latency is being a little crazy. 100ms is fine you dont need 40ms ping times.

    40-60ms was what I had during launch. It's not crazy at all if there's a precedent.

    They changed how the client works tho to combat cheating. Part of that took a lot of the load off the client and put it on the server side. Price you pay tho to combat cheating. I would bet if I had you play this game at 60ms and 100ms you couldnt tell me which was which without some kind of latency meter. The gameplay is exactly the same.

    I'm curious about how much time you spend in Cyrodiil on average per week? What time of day do you play? What's your overall experience on a scale of 1-10? 1 being the worst and 10 being the best experience. While in Cyrodiil what sort of activities do you participate in?


    Im not writing a book. As Ive said before I am mainly a PVE player. My latency out there is average like 300-400 ms which is unplayable for myself so I dont go out much. What I was saying is the diff between 60ms and 100ms simply isnt enough for you to notice. between 60 and 400ms yes that you can notice.
  • Palidon
    Palidon
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    Oh man, I just left Cyrodiil. It was unplayable. Was at Bleakers, nice battle between DC and EP. FPS 9 ping 700. The lag was so bad could not do anything. The audio completely went out and I am using the 32bit client. This is the worst I have ever seen Cyrodiil's game performance and it has become a common every day thing now. The 64bit client which is in beta was the same, with added crashing at random times. I think I will just give Cyrodiil a break and hopefully ZOS will wake up and realize that their lack of action has destroyed the selling point of ESO, which was PVP. Sad really sad.
    Edited by Palidon on March 29, 2016 1:10AM
  • TheValkyn
    TheValkyn
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    Palidon wrote: »
    Oh man, I just left Cyrodiil. It was unplayable. Was at Bleakers, nice battle between DC and EP. FPS 9 ping 700. The lag was so bad could not do anything. The audio completely went out and I am using the 32bit client. This is the worst I have ever seen Cyrodiil's game performance and it has become a common every day thing now. The 64bit client which is in beta was the same, with added crashing at random times. I think I will just give Cyrodiil and break and hopefully ZOS will wake up and realize that their lack of action has destroyed the selling point of ESO, which was PVP. Sad really sad.

    You're about to get railed on by players that solely PvE. You've been warned. :sweat: For some reason they come into PvP or PvP performance focused threads to discuss how much they don't PvP.
  • Volkodav
    Volkodav
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    Mysteri0n wrote: »
    I have played beta and early access it played better then 2 years ago than it does now, Zos we wouldn't post offensive stuff if you fix your game, this literally feels like a game that is in pre alpha

    No it dont feel like a pre-beta game.It is a great game to play,and I have tons of fun.
  • JD2013
    JD2013
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    Palidon wrote: »
    Oh man, I just left Cyrodiil. It was unplayable. Was at Bleakers, nice battle between DC and EP. FPS 9 ping 700. The lag was so bad could not do anything. The audio completely went out and I am using the 32bit client. This is the worst I have ever seen Cyrodiil's game performance and it has become a common every day thing now. The 64bit client which is in beta was the same, with added crashing at random times. I think I will just give Cyrodiil and break and hopefully ZOS will wake up and realize that their lack of action has destroyed the selling point of ESO, which was PVP. Sad really sad.

    Can confirm. Was in TF EU tonight. Massive battle between DC and EP. Audio cutting out intermittently. Frame drops to almost slideshow proportions. Same thing happened last night. 32 bit client, never ever seen it this bad.
    Sweetrolls for all!

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    Crafting bag OP! ZOS nerf pls!
  • Volkodav
    Volkodav
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    JadeNaria wrote: »
    OK you know what does any one who has been posting these rage post even know the basics of game programming ? Any of you rage posters know how much time and effort goes into programming a game ? Do any of you rage posters spend 4-6 years in college to earn a degree in game programming, art, and or audio ? If not then with all due respect you have no right to tell ZOS to "hurry up" or "fix the game" and making all these stupid rage post.

    If any one does have any experience with game design and or programming then you should know the hassle of programming like the players who make the awesome fan art should know it takes awhile to make the art.

    I read no rage in the post the OP made....so ok.

    Oh,the OP got a few snips,so there must have been some sort of rage there.Also,his post does seem rather upset.
  • Waffennacht
    Waffennacht
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    Frame rate blah, ping blah, my hardware blah, Why do you assume PC is the only market, these issues are practically non existent in Xbox world.

    I keep reading these things to gain insight about the game, usually on pertainz to people with PC and lag. I just twirl my finger and move on
    Gamer tag: DasPanzerKat NA Xbox One
    1300+ CP
    Battleground PvP'er

    Waffennacht' Builds
  • FLuFFyxMuFFiN
    FLuFFyxMuFFiN
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    TheValkyn wrote: »
    Palidon wrote: »
    Oh man, I just left Cyrodiil. It was unplayable. Was at Bleakers, nice battle between DC and EP. FPS 9 ping 700. The lag was so bad could not do anything. The audio completely went out and I am using the 32bit client. This is the worst I have ever seen Cyrodiil's game performance and it has become a common every day thing now. The 64bit client which is in beta was the same, with added crashing at random times. I think I will just give Cyrodiil and break and hopefully ZOS will wake up and realize that their lack of action has destroyed the selling point of ESO, which was PVP. Sad really sad.

    You're about to get railed on by players that solely PvE. You've been warned. :sweat: For some reason they come into PvP or PvP performance focused threads to discuss how much they don't PvP.

    The OP clearly stated some PvE stuff in their post too. I'm not railing anyone but I will state that there tends to be more crying on the PvP side and I think PvE players are getting a little annoyed of it. Just because the game seems "broken" to you doesn't mean its broken to everyone else.
  • Smileybones
    Smileybones
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    While I only go into Cyrodiil ocasionnaly, I belong to a big PVP guild on NA PC and I don't hear my guildies complaining about lag all the time, in fact they barely mention it.

    Instead they complain about zergs and abusers, which makes more sense to me: as I understand, the whole lag situation came from abusers. Some people that can't behave caused everyone in PVP to be punished, but people mention it rarely in their daily topics about Cyrodiil.
  • Volkodav
    Volkodav
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    TheValkyn wrote: »
    Palidon wrote: »
    Oh man, I just left Cyrodiil. It was unplayable. Was at Bleakers, nice battle between DC and EP. FPS 9 ping 700. The lag was so bad could not do anything. The audio completely went out and I am using the 32bit client. This is the worst I have ever seen Cyrodiil's game performance and it has become a common every day thing now. The 64bit client which is in beta was the same, with added crashing at random times. I think I will just give Cyrodiil and break and hopefully ZOS will wake up and realize that their lack of action has destroyed the selling point of ESO, which was PVP. Sad really sad.

    You're about to get railed on by players that solely PvE. You've been warned. :sweat: For some reason they come into PvP or PvP performance focused threads to discuss how much they don't PvP.

    The OP clearly stated some PvE stuff in their post too. I'm not railing anyone but I will state that there tends to be more crying on the PvP side and I think PvE players are getting a little annoyed of it. Just because the game seems "broken" to you doesn't mean its broken to everyone else.

    I agree.The OP didnt state that the thread was PvP focused thread at all. Some PvPers seem to think that if the thread goes off into PvP land it then belongs to them and PvErs shouldnt be commenting in it.
  • FLuFFyxMuFFiN
    FLuFFyxMuFFiN
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Volkodav wrote: »
    TheValkyn wrote: »
    Palidon wrote: »
    Oh man, I just left Cyrodiil. It was unplayable. Was at Bleakers, nice battle between DC and EP. FPS 9 ping 700. The lag was so bad could not do anything. The audio completely went out and I am using the 32bit client. This is the worst I have ever seen Cyrodiil's game performance and it has become a common every day thing now. The 64bit client which is in beta was the same, with added crashing at random times. I think I will just give Cyrodiil and break and hopefully ZOS will wake up and realize that their lack of action has destroyed the selling point of ESO, which was PVP. Sad really sad.

    You're about to get railed on by players that solely PvE. You've been warned. :sweat: For some reason they come into PvP or PvP performance focused threads to discuss how much they don't PvP.

    The OP clearly stated some PvE stuff in their post too. I'm not railing anyone but I will state that there tends to be more crying on the PvP side and I think PvE players are getting a little annoyed of it. Just because the game seems "broken" to you doesn't mean its broken to everyone else.

    I agree.The OP didnt state that the thread was PvP focused thread at all. Some PvPers seem to think that if the thread goes off into PvP land it then belongs to them and PvErs shouldnt be commenting in it.

    You forgot to mention that a lot of PvPers have a strong hatred towards PvEers and think were just casual carebears :lol:
    Edited by FLuFFyxMuFFiN on March 29, 2016 1:28AM
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